forums

NFL Combine invites by team (2020)

Ethnicsands said:
This is exactly what I’m talking about when I say your responses can appear disingenuous. You KNOW that the aggregate salary number you point to is not divided equally across our nfl alumni, and the ‘nfl numbers’ do include plenty of marginal guys. Just use some math and logic. Tom Brady and the seven dwarfs would add up to a lot of nfl money for the 8 of them. That doesn’t mean aggregating their comp is representative of the overall talent of Michigan over recent time periods, particularly when Tom Brady hasn’t even played there in ages and the seven dwarfs may have not ever played alongside him at Michigan. Heck, Tom Brady didn’t even do all that much at Michigan. I guess nfl salaries and outcomes can be misleading. But you know that also. So why overdo the point?

And again, we all know our talent has been better than our results. But if we want to win big, we need to look past simple statistics and understand effective roster talent, not be deceived by a few kids on an 85 man roster.
Click to expand...

You said we “had a few marginal guys” and aren’t producing elite players. Now you’re saying that a few guys are so elite that it inflates our total salaries.

Which one is it?
 
Advertisement
BoxingRobes said:
What D$ doesn't tell you, is $400M of that $500M is accounted for by Calais Campbell, Brandon Linder, Olivier Vernon, and Jimmy Graham.
Click to expand...

If volume is important, we are third in total NFL players.

So to recap: we still put a lot of players in the pros, they get paid a lot, and there are more on the way.
 
DMoney said:
You said we “had a few marginal guys” and aren’t producing elite players. Now you’re saying that a few guys are so elite that it inflates our total salaries.

Which one is it?
Click to expand...
I can’t tell if you’re just misreading or misinterpreting, you’re serious, or trolling. I didn’t say we’ve ‘only’ had marginal nfl guys. But it’s a fact that your stats on nfl alumni are bolstered by us having a relatively large number of marginal nfl guys. Our run of top level nfl guys is petering out. We used to have all pros everywhere. No longer. Not saying we need that to win in cfb, mind you. But since you keep posting about the ’quantity’ of nfl alumni we have, it’s relevant how many are marginal nfl guys, and it’s relevant also what they did at UM, how those rosters were constructed, etc. because at the end of it all, we’re either talking about talent at Miami, or this whole exchange is pointless.

NFL futures is somewhat relevant but it is still a flawed way to discuss the topic, at least without considering the whole roster picture. Jimmy Graham has made a good bit of the money you point to in the nfl numbers, just for example, and he played one season at UM, and was just learning the spot. So obviously his nfl results are not indicative of his time at UM, and not just because our coaches sucked.
 
DMoney said:
If volume is important, we are third in total NFL players.

So to recap: we still put a lot of players in the pros, they get paid a lot, and there are more on the way.
Click to expand...
Why not try to consider whether our actual rosters at UM have been worse than your ‘nfl stats’ might be used to suggest?

Can you at least acknowledge the obvious - other facts matter here, when it comes to actual useful, available roster talent.
 
Advertisement
bshaw28 said:
No question we have the best talent as a whole in the Coastal and have underachieved. It's frustrating.

But in terms of producing 1st/2nd Round talent the last 10 years - we're not really different than UNC, VT, Pitt, etc.

In general - 4th/5th Rounders are closer in talent to a college starter that doesn't make the NFL than they are to a 1st/2nd Rounder. So looking at just the overall number of players drafted can be deceiving when gauging the talent gap.
Click to expand...

It’s because we don’t win. If we won games scouts would be fighting each other like wolves fighting over a carcass! Even if it was based on a scheme we run and not pure talent.
 
Over the past DECADE, Um has produced 4 first round picks and 3 second round picks. 7 top two round guys over 10 years. Not sure where that puts us relative to other programs? Or what to think it says about overall effective roster talent at UM?
 
God forbid we ever coched well and to our talent our guys would probably get drafted higher. Look how many guys from the top teams get the first contract and fizzle our immediately.

Fringe players could get a little more money at the very least
 
Advertisement
Ethnicsands said:
But it’s a fact that your stats on nfl alumni are bolstered by us having a relatively large number of marginal nfl guys.
Click to expand...

What study are you relying on for this relative “fact?” Is it just a guess? Or have you ran the numbers for the rest of the country?

When you have 36 players in the pros, some will be marginal. Some will be impact starters. Some will be in between. That’s why it’s important to look at volume of players AND total salary. Miami ranks high in both categories.

Ethnicsands said:
Over the past DECADE, Um has produced 4 first round picks and 3 second round picks. 7 top two round guys over 10 years. Not sure where that puts us relative to other programs? Or what to think it says about overall effective roster talent at UM?
Click to expand...

One thing that tells me is that we aren’t getting enough from our talented players. Olivier Vernon and Brandon Linder got drafted in the third round. When their rookie deals expired, they signed the biggest contracts in the history of their positions.

They should have been name-brand players at Miami.
 
This fan base would do well to learn some realism and analytic abilities because it sure sounds like people are using random factoids as a jumping off point for telling themselves narratives that aren’t particularly revealing.

We all know our coaching has sucked. Does that need to be debated?

As for roster talent — do we even have a full roster? How is it distributed/balanced by age / class, by unit? Do we have depth and competition and experience? Is the great majority of the roster who are NOT nfl bound good? Are we taking too many kids with athletic potential at the expense of solid, dependable, tough kids? Just line the part of the iceberg you see is 10% of the story, the part of our roster that makes an nfl roster may also be hiding a bigger part that should be assessed. All this blah blah hey nfl hey money stuff is absurd witho an honest effort to contextualize it. Brandon Linder is the highest paid Center ever guYsm!!!!! Okay. Why are we hearing about. that?
 
DMoney said:
What study are you relying on for this relative “fact?” Is it just a guess? Or have you ran the numbers for the rest of the country?

When you have 36 players in the pros, some will be marginal. Some will be impact starters. Some will be in between. That’s why it’s important to look at volume of players AND total salary. Miami ranks high in both categories.



One thing that tells me is that we aren’t getting enough from our talented players. Olivier Vernon and Brandon Linder got drafted in the third round. When their rookie deals expired, they signed the biggest contracts in the history of their positions.

They should have been name-brand players at Miami.
Click to expand...
Vernon was a guy who didn’t care about committing in COLLEGE and folks who knew and watched him in high school called it out back at the time. So it’s interesting for you to point to him. Our coaches has sucked but part of coaching is finding kids who care about this program. No criticism of a kid who cares more about the nfl than college, but we will not win if we can’t tell the difference.

As for Linder, lol. You talk money to distort not illuminate. Linder is a good pro. How many times has he been first team all pro? Why are you hyping his contract rather than his accomplishments?

(Re the ‘fact’ you ask about - answer it for yourself. Look at the list of guys who you pointed to, and tell me how many are marginal and how many are top level.)
 
Advertisement
Ethnicsands said:
Vernon was a guy who didn’t care about committing in COLLEGE and folks who knew and watched him in high school called it out back at the time.
Click to expand...

In other words, a kid who didn’t play to his talent in Miami. Which is exactly our problem.

Saban wanted him out of high school. You think he’s a third rounder if he signed with Bama?
 
DMoney said:
In other words, a kid who didn’t play to his talent in Miami. Which is exactly our problem.

Saban wanted him out of high school. You think he’s a third rounder if he signed with Bama?
Click to expand...
You say that. But guys who have been more right than anyone over the years called it like it is re Vernon back when. Maybe Saban wanted him. Easy to say now when he didn’t go there. Maybe Saban was wrong if he did. (More likely he saw the potential and never had to decide on whether the kid deserved a roster spot in the final instance.). The fact is the kid didn’t give an eff at UM. I would be happy to PASS on those kids and will be concerned if we continue to chase athletic potential without assessing character. You’re using the wrong example here, IMO. Our recruiting evals have stunk!
 
d$, best i can find on line, linder has never been an all pro (first or second team), and vernon has been second team once and never first team. Why do you talk about their salaries in the nfl, when the topic is talent at UM?
 
Advertisement
Ethnicsands said:
Why do you talk about their salaries in the nfl, when the topic is talent at UM?
Click to expand...

Because money talks.

Once our players get to the NFL, they earn contracts from professional evaluators. No other school overperforms like Miami in the pros. The study below makes that clear.

That tells me the problem is the program, not the player. We need to improve our talent until it is Miami Championship-quality. But talent is, and has been, the least of our issues.

www.espn.com

College football's best (and worst) NFL factories

Ever wonder which college programs produce the best NFL running backs? How about the most long-term starters or the most Pro Bowlers? We dug through data from the past 15 drafts to find out which schools make the grade at the next level.
www.espn.com
 
DMoney said:
Because money talks.

Once our players get to the NFL, they earn contracts from professional evaluators. No other school overperforms like Miami in the pros. The study below makes that clear.

That tells me the problem is the program, not the player. We need to improve our talent until it is Miami Championship-quality. But talent is, and has been, the least of our issues.

www.espn.com

College football's best (and worst) NFL factories

Ever wonder which college programs produce the best NFL running backs? How about the most long-term starters or the most Pro Bowlers? We dug through data from the past 15 drafts to find out which schools make the grade at the next level.
www.espn.com
Click to expand...
You are still pretending the problem is something other than both/all of the above? Wow.

And why selectively use contracts as ostensible evidence of talent? It’s transparently puffery. Linder and Vernon between them have one 2d team all pro and zero 1st team all pro selections. They are solid players, not great players. And both date to the Shannon era.

Also, your chart dates to 2002 drafts, so it’s pretty obvious it is weighting the Butch era guys. We all know the last decade has been different.
 
Last edited:
hughhoney said:
BuT iT'S a tALenT iSsUE GuYSm
Click to expand...
Exactly . People *****ing about recruiting ( at least since Richt got here ) are missing the boat mostly. We got talent . What we haven't had is scheme on offense or development. Our D has been solid since Diaz took over from D-No! and Golden. We got a QB now and a great scheme so no excuse not to win 10 games at least this year and the coastal moving forward most years.
 
Advertisement
Back
Top