Mirabal

[hoops156]

Bingo, like Samson getting a false start on 3rd and 2 driving and down 7

We even get a yard there we probably go for it and convert

TrumpyCane would be wasted beyond belief if took a shot for every terrible penalty on manageable downs

Samson got that flag literally the moment he went into his stance. it was wild how quickly he false started. dont get me started on our **** *** center. hes the ******* center. how does he not know the **** snap count and false start. he has the god **** ball.

 

[detroitcane]

I know for a fact, speaking to various sources. Alex Mirabal is respected in the coaching circles, including some in the NFL.

 

[OrangeBowlMagic]

I did. But, as a concept. Just like I cared about our choices in victories against UF and FSU this year. That’s the thing. It can be both.

As for last year, totally different to have a QB who’d keep the ball and literally jog out of bounds for a first down OR pull the ball and whiz it by a LB’s ear hole. You know that creates a lot of conflict for defenders. You know that changes how a defense can defend you. Louisville would NOT have been able to execute their gameplan against the exact same team with Cam Ward substituted in for Beck, obviously. So why another ‘but last year?’

I think lack of diversity in any aspect - run, pass, blitz packages, pass coverages (which become stale and make me nauseous) - is a recipe for eventual disaster.

When you legitimately don’t have a choice because you’re Navy or Army and this is what you have to do to churn through a game, fine. When you pay upward of 6M for your QB and OL, I push back on *choosing* less variation for what appears a lot like risk aversion.

You’re a numbers guy. You know what you’re looking at. Why bring teams into the game because you’ve decided to play it tight?

I don’t think Mirabal is calling the plays. But, I think overall they’ve all decided to play this year a particular way. I think even you agree it should be swiftly altered or we’re cooked.

Great post. For the record, I’m all for criticism when it’s warranted. My thoughts in this post are specifically about Mirabal’s role, not the run game in general. It’s not good enough. I made that point forcefully in my stats thread and have been for the last 3 days. It’s broken right now, for sure.

But I don’t think we’re really playing it tight. We’re doing what we think we’re best at, which is being physical and downhill in the run game and trying to throw off that. I don’t know if that’s the best possible strategy. Probably not since it hasn’t been great this year. I do think there’s something to the theory of trying to play ball control and keep the defense fresh. People forget, this was one of the best time of possession teams in the country last year, too. Even with how insane that offense was. Didn’t help the defense got gashed immediately as soon as they got on the field, but I digress.

I really don’t think we’re playing overly tight, though. At least not early in games. Late, yes, especially against ND I didn’t like that approach of playing for the FG. But we played good offense the first 2.5 quarters and had a 21-7 lead. We absolutely ruined USF. Against the gator, it was pouring and I really think their totally inept offense played into the plan. But again, if they don’t blow Marty dead it’s 20-0. FSU we were very aggressive in the first 3 quarters and the game was over at 28-3.

I think a lot of it partly is because Mario trusts his defense for the first time in a couple years? I’m guessing. But turning it over 4 times and losing probably isn’t going to do much to change his mind if that’s how he’s thinking.

One thing I will say, I’ve only watched back once, and I did notice more guys pulling than usual. So it wasn’t just duo into the A gap on every snap like you’d think reading this board. I need to watch it again but I think Dawson is trying different things. We just got pushed around Friday, which was really surprising to see.

I’d love to see more horizontal game too. There are plenty of ways to extend the run game. ****, Toney had a 60 yarder on a throw of about 3 yards. Get the ball to the backs in space. I’m just really eager to see how the rest of this goes. But we absolutely have to be better or we’re going to run into a game where the defense isn’t great and we’re gonna lose. I don’t think 30 every week going forward is too much to ask. If we get that, I think we’re 6-0. But it has to be better. The offense is not good enough right now.

 

[ALLoverCANE]

We're 15-3 in our last 18 games. Jesus H Christ, guys.

14-4 in last 18*...15-4 in last 19 is probably what you meant

In any case, our SOR was 21st last year and 12th this year. 15-4 is good, not great, vs our schedule.

 

[swat1]

Wait a minute....we forgot to call each other names. Kidding.

Completely agree with you on the sit them for a series premise, even more so with the 2 points that follow.

Imagine that.....adults having a constructive conversation. Who woulda thunk? Especially on CiS.

 

[OrangeBowlMagic]

14-4 in last 18*...15-4 in last 19 is probably what you meant

In any case, our SOR was 21st last year and 12th this year. 15-4 is good, not great, vs our schedule.

I don’t count games where our QB sits down at halftime. Win or lose. I don’t care about bowl games.

10-2 last year. 5-1 this year.

15-3 in our last 18 games. I’ll bet there are less than 10 teams in the country who have lost 3 or fewer in the regular season since the start of 2024.

And our losses are by 3, 4, and 5 points. We haven’t lost a game by more than a score since 2023.

Not saying we should hang banners for this ****. Just some perspective. You’d think we’re FSU sometimes coming on this board.

 

[HurricanePhilly]

Bingo, like Samson getting a false start on 3rd and 2 driving and down 7

We even get a yard there we probably go for it and convert

TrumpyCane would be wasted beyond belief if took a shot for every terrible penalty on manageable downs

Amen. I know we are beaten dogs. But I’m 45 now. I’m not going to melt down over a loss where everything went wrong and we still had a chance. Now another loss and all these same things pop up. I’m on board. Heck this weekend I expect us to win by 21+ or I’ll have a bit of doubt creeping in if we are in a battle. But I just don’t see it.

 

[Calinative]

Nobody seemed to care last year when we were getting 6 yards every time we handed it to a back.

WRONG…. Really really ******* wrong

 

[LuCane]

One thing I will say, I’ve only watched back once, and I did notice more guys pulling than usual. So it wasn’t just duo into the A gap on every snap like you’d think reading this board. I need to watch it again but I think Dawson is trying different things. We just got pushed around Friday, which was really surprising to see.

I’d love to see more horizontal game too. There are plenty of ways to extend the run game. ****, Toney had a 60 yarder on a throw of about 3 yards. Get the ball to the backs in space. I’m just really eager to see how the rest of this goes. But we absolutely have to be better or we’re going to run into a game where the defense isn’t great and we’re gonna lose. I don’t think 30 every week going forward is too much to ask. If we get that, I think we’re 6-0. But it has to be better. The offense is not good enough right now.

I am always grateful for actual football discussion and you're one of the dudes who's willing to engage in rational convo. Thank you.

We don't see the "calling tight" thing the same, but that's ok. I think they're too risk averse, or at least that's how I'm interpreting their run game strategy, which then bleeds into how you support Beck, which then dominoes into defenses getting ahead of our predictability. It's all under the same umbrella for me. I mentioned separately I watched Bell and others pull, but too little in the outside game. That jet sweep was waiting to be called for seemingly ever.

I am aware they know all of this, and that's why, like when I used to argue against D'Ono's approach, I acknowledge it's a stylistic choice. Maybe a better stylistic choice than D'Ono used to make, but still one I consider sub-par to our options. I asked @gogeta4 and @San Amaro Dr (who obliged) for some more technical views on Duo vs IZ because there are many times a supposed Duo call doesn't even look like it. Looks like a bar fight flowing sorta forward toward the door. We don't get to the second level. Like an IZ stalemated. The center sometimes gets rocked by a downhill defense. The **** is the point then? I don't think this is an "execution just has to get better" thing. Yes, execution will look better against some worse teams. Then, we'll find ourselves back in a dogfight without the training to successfully get out of it.

I know the coaches see all of this and then I have to ask: do they really trust Beck so little? Well, if we can't trust him to throw slants and digs, we are straight up going to drop another game here very soon. That would be a colossal waste of this roster. Like I pounded *before the season* last year that it was insane to step into that season with our DBs.

 

[Calinative]

I did. But, as a concept. Just like I cared about our choices in victories against UF and FSU this year. That’s the thing. It can be both.

As for last year, totally different to have a QB who’d keep the ball and literally jog out of bounds for a first down OR pull the ball and whiz it by a LB’s ear hole. You know that creates a lot of conflict for defenders. You know that changes how a defense can defend you. Louisville would NOT have been able to execute their gameplan against the exact same team with Cam Ward substituted in for Beck, obviously. So why another ‘but last year?’

I think lack of diversity in any aspect - run, pass, blitz packages, pass coverages (which become stale and make me nauseous) - is a recipe for eventual disaster.

When you legitimately don’t have a choice because you’re Navy or Army and this is what you have to do to churn through a game, fine. When you pay upward of 6M for your QB and OL, I push back on *choosing* less variation for what appears a lot like risk aversion.

You’re a numbers guy. You know what you’re looking at. Why bring teams into the game because you’ve decided to play it tight?

I don’t think Mirabal is calling the plays. But, I think overall they’ve all decided to play this year a particular way. I think even you agree it should be swiftly altered or we’re cooked.

This is all painfully obvious to anyone who doesn’t have blinders on an an ego/made up philosophy artificially boxing them in. Less is never more. Erring Conservative is never better than erring aggressiveness.

 

[OrangeBowlMagic]

I am always grateful for actual football discussion and you're one of the dudes who's willing to engage in rational convo. Thank you.

We don't see the "calling tight" thing the same, but that's ok. I think they're too risk averse, or at least that's how I'm interpreting their run game strategy, which then bleeds into how you support Beck, which then dominoes into defenses getting ahead of our predictability. It's all under the same umbrella for me. I mentioned separately I watched Bell and others pull, but too little in the outside game. That jet sweep was waiting to be called for seemingly ever.

I am aware they know all of this, and that's why, like when I used to argue against D'Ono's approach, I acknowledge it's a stylistic choice. Maybe a better stylistic choice than D'Ono used to make, but still one I consider sub-par to our options. I asked @gogeta4 and @San Amaro Dr (who obliged) for some more technical views on Duo vs IZ because there are many times a supposed Duo call doesn't even look like it. Looks like a bar fight flowing sorta forward toward the door. We don't get to the second level. Like an IZ stalemated. The center sometimes gets rocked by a downhill defense. The **** is the point then? I don't think this is an "execution just has to get better" thing. Yes, execution will look better against some worse teams. Then, we'll find ourselves back in a dogfight without the training to successfully get out of it.

I know the coaches see all of this and then I have to ask: do they really trust Beck so little? Well, if we can't trust him to throw slants and digs, we are straight up going to drop another game here very soon. That would be a colossal waste of this roster. Like I pounded *before the season* last year that it was insane to step into that season with our DBs.

Likewise. I'd pay $100 a month for somewhere that filtered out all the other **** here and was just essentially this (and some nun ****, of course).

But what do you consider "calling tight"? Pace? I'm assuming it's not run/pass ratio. The type of plays we run? I'm curious to how you'd describe the offense, essentially.

For me, I want to score 50 a week. So I'm not going to say we need to slog our way through games. I do think, though, that we have the best player in America, and he plays defense. I want him on the field as much as possible. So perhaps there's some credence to the thought process of, "4 needs to be out there as often as he can possibly be", and one way to do that is to be a little more deliberate on offense? Just spitballing, honestly. I'm obviously not in the rooms when this is discussed. But that dude absolutely wrecks games. We know we're thin on the DL behind the front group (and who wouldn't have a drop off from 3 and 4?). So maybe it's, be as efficient as possible while also trying to preserve the defense as much as you can so Bain can play every snap? If you go out there and go hyper speed, you're not going to score every drive, we know that, so maybe they'd rather those kids face 60 plays a game and play all of them versus 80 plays a game and only be in for 75% of them? I'm not sure. And I genuinely think this is one of the ~15 best defenses in the country overall, which is still wild to say. So maybe you lean a little more into that?

What I am sure of is, no matter how fast you play, you have to be better than 5.85 YPP and 40th in the country in points per drive. I guess you think being more aggressive in how we call plays and the pace will help with that?

 

[drewm3i]

It's really getting to the point where an IQ test needs to be a requirement. You would think we're FSU based on this board.

Last year we were 9-0--and ended up 10-3. This year we were 5-0 and #2--and we just dropped a home night game with two weeks to prepare. We truly looked terrible (as in we looked like a mediocre team) and completely vulnerable to further losses (SMU) in that game.

With what this program has routinely done since '04, late-season collapses should be completely expected--they are the rule, not the exception.

 

[TexasCane90]

Mirabal has been an awesome OLine coach and recruiter but **** he needs more imagination with the run game… super simplistic other offenses are scheming things to keep defenses honest and we’re pretending we have 5 1st rounders on the line and we’re just gonna win with sheer force

 

[BigDikDaddyFromCincinnati]

Imagine that.....adults having a constructive conversation. Who woulda thunk? Especially on CiS.

Did you just call me an ADULT?

Blue Lot. Now.

 

[skyman]

I am always grateful for actual football discussion and you're one of the dudes who's willing to engage in rational convo. Thank you.

We don't see the "calling tight" thing the same, but that's ok. I think they're too risk averse, or at least that's how I'm interpreting their run game strategy, which then bleeds into how you support Beck, which then dominoes into defenses getting ahead of our predictability. It's all under the same umbrella for me. I mentioned separately I watched Bell and others pull, but too little in the outside game. That jet sweep was waiting to be called for seemingly ever.

I am aware they know all of this, and that's why, like when I used to argue against D'Ono's approach, I acknowledge it's a stylistic choice. Maybe a better stylistic choice than D'Ono used to make, but still one I consider sub-par to our options. I asked @gogeta4 and @San Amaro Dr (who obliged) for some more technical views on Duo vs IZ because there are many times a supposed Duo call doesn't even look like it. Looks like a bar fight flowing sorta forward toward the door. We don't get to the second level. Like an IZ stalemated. The center sometimes gets rocked by a downhill defense. The **** is the point then? I don't think this is an "execution just has to get better" thing. Yes, execution will look better against some worse teams. Then, we'll find ourselves back in a dogfight without the training to successfully get out of it.

I know the coaches see all of this and then I have to ask: do they really trust Beck so little? Well, if we can't trust him to throw slants and digs, we are straight up going to drop another game here very soon. That would be a colossal waste of this roster. Like I pounded *before the season* last year that it was insane to step into that season with our DBs.

A couple things, I think we see the risk averse thing the same way.. Its hard to explain because while guys are high fiving in game, I be ****ed at the overall mindset and philosophy we have taken. I mentioned it last week and got push back about continuing to be aggressive and how that trickles from head guy to entire team. I dont believe you shut down entire team both sides of ball entire 4th qtr. You cant run 4 minute offense for a qtr of the game! UL looked like they could tell our plays and play down hill on most runs.

One instance of this is when Toney broke Jailbreak screen down to like 9 yard line. When he was tackled there was 4:19 game clock before halftime, BOTH teams have all 3 timeouts. If we hurry up, we can get an additional timeout with 2 minute warning. Makes NO SENSE to milk clock because UL also has all 3 timeouts and the time wont run out. But we are in no rush, second down Beck throws it out of bounds and now clock stops with 2:49 on 3rd down. There is no way we should get to 2 minute warning.. 3rd down, Toney and Jojo do switch release and Beck misses Toney for TD AND Marion on in cut.. Tries to run and gets tackled. When Beck is tackled its 2:40 on play clock. SAME TIMEOUT SCENARIO STANDS..

WHY ARE WE MILKING CLOCK WHEN THEY HAVE ALL THREE TIME OUTS?!! Im HOTTT in seat but people around me dont understand.. Im trying to explain, we can still ANOTHER possession in middle eight. WE are the down team, we need to steal possessions. Why are we milking clock when they have all 3 timeouts.. They wont run out of time.. We wait for 2 minute warning and kick fg after, they drive down and call Marios bluff on 4th down and milk clock, punt ball and we go to half time with all 3 timeouts.. Possibly leaving a possession on field for maybe stealing 3 points in a game we lost by 3.

If anyone needs refresher on sequence starts at 46:25 on video timestamp


As for the passing, I dont think Beck is good at post snap rpo, he misses alot of pull reads that Cam would do. It happens a few times a game, and Dawson has commented that they dont do as much rpo now. It makes sense, also on passing depth throws, the intermediate numbers are wayy down compared to Cam and thats where Cam did alot of damage. Beck doesnt see the field the same in that way, much more higher in passes behind line of scrimmage but everyone said would be more efficient offense so they should be happy. I could pull that info if needed. Was on Manny podcast last week.

 

[KingB02]

No. He and Dawson and the entire offensive staff gameplan and teach what they’re going to run. Each week, based off the defense, they collaboratively select which run plays are going to go on that week’s play sheet. Dawson chooses which ones he wants to run, and when.

If you listen to people here, who don’t have an earthly ******* clue, you’d think Dawson walks onto the field on Saturday and Mirabal hands him a piece of paper and says “here are your run plays”, or even more comical, Dawson says on the headset, “I want to run the ball here” and Mirabal gives him a play call.

Mirabal is the “run game coordinator”. Which is a fancy, made up title for “helps the offensive coordinator design and implement running plays”

Guess what? When you run the ball on Saturday, the concepts of that play (who you’re going to block, how you’re going to block them, who is responsible for who, etc) are taught from Day 1 of spring ball. It’s kind of important for the OL coach to be involved with that since, you know, he’s teaching the **** techniques.

Nobody seemed to care last year when we were getting 6 yards every time we handed it to a back. But now all of a sudden people think Alex and Shannon introduce themselves to one another on the field prior to the game and Dawson does what Alex tells him.

lol I ain’t say all that but I know one thing.. Dawson ain’t running these trash *** running plays up the centers a$$ because it’s what he wants to do.. he ain’t ever did that anywhere else. He’s obviously handcuffed by Wario and his mini me.

 

[gogeta4]

If the OL isnt up to par will Mario be able to cut AM loose?

if the ol isnt up to par mario should cut himself loose as he has no use other than recruiting and coaching ol.

 

[LuCane]

A couple things, I think we see the risk averse thing the same way.. Its hard to explain because while guys are high fiving in game, I be ****ed at the overall mindset and philosophy we have taken. I mentioned it last week and got push back about continuing to be aggressive and how that trickles from head guy to entire team. I dont believe you shut down entire team both sides of ball entire 4th qtr. You cant run 4 minute offense for a qtr of the game! UL looked like they could tell our plays and play down hill on most runs.

One instance of this is when Toney broke Jailbreak screen down to like 9 yard line. When he was tackled there was 4:19 game clock before halftime, BOTH teams have all 3 timeouts. If we hurry up, we can get an additional timeout with 2 minute warning. Makes NO SENSE to milk clock because UL also has all 3 timeouts and the time wont run out. But we are in no rush, second down Beck throws it out of bounds and now clock stops with 2:49 on 3rd down. There is no way we should get to 2 minute warning.. 3rd down, Toney and Jojo do switch release and Beck misses Toney for TD AND Marion on in cut.. Tries to run and gets tackled. When Beck is tackled its 2:40 on play clock. SAME TIMEOUT SCENARIO STANDS..

WHY ARE WE MILKING CLOCK WHEN THEY HAVE ALL THREE TIME OUTS?!! Im HOTTT in seat but people around me dont understand.. Im trying to explain, we can still ANOTHER possession in middle eight. WE are the down team, we need to steal possessions. Why are we milking clock when they have all 3 timeouts.. They wont run out of time.. We wait for 2 minute warning and kick fg after, they drive down and call Marios bluff on 4th down and milk clock, punt ball and we go to half time with all 3 timeouts.. Possibly leaving a possession on field for maybe stealing 3 points in a game we lost by 3.

If anyone needs refresher on sequence starts at 46:25 on video timestamp


As for the passing, I dont think Beck is good at post snap rpo, he misses alot of pull reads that Cam would do. It happens a few times a game, and Dawson has commented that they dont do as much rpo now. It makes sense, also on passing depth throws, the intermediate numbers are wayy down compared to Cam and thats where Cam did alot of damage. Beck doesnt see the field the same in that way, much more higher in passes behind line of scrimmage but everyone said would be more efficient offense so they should be happy. I could pull that info if needed. Was on Manny podcast last week.

Ha. This is the Step Brothers movie scene where they ‘just became best friends.’ Your reaction to that whole sequence is what I consistently talk about throughout almost each game. We lose possessions. We fail to step on the gas or slow it down depending on situations/scenarios. Beyond the one you mentioned, there are are usually at least a couple each game. I have an example from just before half in the UF game that I think was a missed opportunity if you're trying to develop a potential playoff contender.

@simplycanes @CanesAreAble @k9cane and some others can tell you we have an entire outside chat where I repeatedly harp on #sequences (which they've jokingly turned into #sequins).

 

[k9cane]

Ha. This is the Step Brothers movie scene where they ‘just became best friends.’ Your reaction to that whole sequence is what I consistently talk about throughout almost each game. We lose possessions. We fail to step on the gas or slow it down depending on situations/scenarios. Beyond the one you mentioned, there are are usually at least a couple each game. I have an example from just before half in the UF game that I think was a missed opportunity if you're trying to develop a potential playoff contender.

@simplycanes @CanesAreAble @k9cane and some others can tell you we have an entire outside chat where I repeatedly harp on #sequences (which they've jokingly turned into #sequins).

This is another case of where you can't let the results (which matter) cloud the process in which you get there.

The fact that the Florida game was ever 13-7 with the Gators having the ball after the McClain INT was/is alarming

 

[LuCane]

Likewise. I'd pay $100 a month for somewhere that filtered out all the other **** here and was just essentially this (and some nun ****, of course).

But what do you consider "calling tight"? Pace? I'm assuming it's not run/pass ratio. The type of plays we run? I'm curious to how you'd describe the offense, essentially.

For me, I want to score 50 a week. So I'm not going to say we need to slog our way through games. I do think, though, that we have the best player in America, and he plays defense. I want him on the field as much as possible. So perhaps there's some credence to the thought process of, "4 needs to be out there as often as he can possibly be", and one way to do that is to be a little more deliberate on offense? Just spitballing, honestly. I'm obviously not in the rooms when this is discussed. But that dude absolutely wrecks games. We know we're thin on the DL behind the front group (and who wouldn't have a drop off from 3 and 4?). So maybe it's, be as efficient as possible while also trying to preserve the defense as much as you can so Bain can play every snap? If you go out there and go hyper speed, you're not going to score every drive, we know that, so maybe they'd rather those kids face 60 plays a game and play all of them versus 80 plays a game and only be in for 75% of them? I'm not sure. And I genuinely think this is one of the ~15 best defenses in the country overall, which is still wild to say. So maybe you lean a little more into that?

What I am sure of is, no matter how fast you play, you have to be better than 5.85 YPP and 40th in the country in points per drive. I guess you think being more aggressive in how we call plays and the pace will help with that?

There's a good example above in the sequence @skyman described. Between the wonky approach to stepping on the gas (pace) and slowing down, the general desire to stay on schedule seemingly at a bad cost/benefit with riskier plays, and the fact we end up in predictable tendencies that empower lesser teams, I think we unnecessarily punch beneath our actual weight. Sure, there are times where it makes sense, and there are many times it's just bad math. If the defense is as good as you think it is (I think it's solid, but have to see more from our LBs in coverage to be sure), then you should be empowered to take even more necessary risk on offense.