If we keep everyone committed and add Cerenord and Heurtelou...this DT class gets an A freaking +.
I'm just sitting back till NSD and see who all makes it in. I have only been following reciting for a year and I have learned my lesson with DT's
Give me the big uglies
Coley was telling me and my boy the other day about hand size for QB's. He said Jameis Winston holds a football like an average person a tennis ball, he said Morris can barely palm a basketball
Me and LuCane talk about this all the time. I am a MAJOR proponent of hand size in quarterbacks.
I know George Whitfield (Manziel and Cam's QB coach) pretty well, and he told me that hand size is one of the most important attributes he looks for.
Manziel is much smaller than Tannehill, but has much bigger hands. That's why he transitions from passing to running so naturally-- the ball is just an extension of his body. When Tannehill transitions from passer to runner, he has to gear down for a split second to make sure he has the ball secure. That split second makes a huge defense.
For a short quarterback, big hands are an absolute must. It's no coincidence that Russell Wilson and Drew Brees have huge hands.
The king of hand size is probably Joe Namath. Check out the pass to Don Maynard against the Chiefs at the 1:05 mark. That's the definition of "grip it and rip it."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTPZWj755Ao
Coley was telling me and my boy the other day about hand size for QB's. He said Jameis Winston holds a football like an average person a tennis ball, he said Morris can barely palm a basketball
Me and LuCane talk about this all the time. I am a MAJOR proponent of hand size in quarterbacks.
I know George Whitfield (Manziel and Cam's QB coach) pretty well, and he told me that hand size is one of the most important attributes he looks for.
Manziel is much smaller than Tannehill, but has much bigger hands. That's why he transitions from passing to running so naturally-- the ball is just an extension of his body. When Tannehill transitions from passer to runner, he has to gear down for a split second to make sure he has the ball secure. That split second makes a huge defense.
For a short quarterback, big hands are an absolute must. It's no coincidence that Russell Wilson and Drew Brees have huge hands.
The king of hand size is probably Joe Namath. Check out the pass to Don Maynard against the Chiefs at the 1:05 mark. That's the definition of "grip it and rip it."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTPZWj755Ao
I think it's a worthwhile topic, but I think people are swinging too far in the direction of "hand size = critical factor for success." I think, like D$ and I drunkenly discussed recently, it's a matter of context and style. If you're a certain style of QB - certainly the guys who rely on grip in the transition from run to pass - you are certainly more likely to need the bigger hand size.
I'm not sure if we're reading into hand size when there have been so many failures of guys with big hand size, successes of guys with big hand size, successes of guys with relatively smaller hands, failures with guys w/ smaller hand size. On top of that, QBs are traditionally guys with height, so they're going to lean toward having larger hands. Here are a list of some QBs with relatively large hands who've busted: David Carr, Heath Shuler, Jim Drunkenmiller, Akili Smith, Tim Couch, etc. There are gonna be a lot of em because QBs just historically have bigger hands. There are some, like Mike Vick, who have relatively small hands and have been successful despite being a Run/pass QB. Doug Flutie didn't have notoriously large hands despite being a short QB. In other words, the data isn't completely clear.
If I'm evaluating a QB, I'm definitely looking at hand size, but I think it's down the list in terms of attributes.
1. Football IQ and Awareness
2. Accuracy
3. Arm strength
4. Short area agility
5. Speed
6. Hand size + Wingspan (note: together)
7. How much more obsessed with football is this player than others at his position?
8. Leadership intangibles
Coley was telling me and my boy the other day about hand size for QB's. He said Jameis Winston holds a football like an average person a tennis ball, he said Morris can barely palm a basketball
Me and LuCane talk about this all the time. I am a MAJOR proponent of hand size in quarterbacks.
I know George Whitfield (Manziel and Cam's QB coach) pretty well, and he told me that hand size is one of the most important attributes he looks for.
Manziel is much smaller than Tannehill, but has much bigger hands. That's why he transitions from passing to running so naturally-- the ball is just an extension of his body. When Tannehill transitions from passer to runner, he has to gear down for a split second to make sure he has the ball secure. That split second makes a huge defense.
For a short quarterback, big hands are an absolute must. It's no coincidence that Russell Wilson and Drew Brees have huge hands.
The king of hand size is probably Joe Namath. Check out the pass to Don Maynard against the Chiefs at the 1:05 mark. That's the definition of "grip it and rip it."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTPZWj755Ao
I think it's a worthwhile topic, but I think people are swinging too far in the direction of "hand size = critical factor for success." I think, like D$ and I drunkenly discussed recently, it's a matter of context and style. If you're a certain style of QB - certainly the guys who rely on grip in the transition from run to pass - you are certainly more likely to need the bigger hand size.
I'm not sure if we're reading into hand size when there have been so many failures of guys with big hand size, successes of guys with big hand size, successes of guys with relatively smaller hands, failures with guys w/ smaller hand size. On top of that, QBs are traditionally guys with height, so they're going to lean toward having larger hands. Here are a list of some QBs with relatively large hands who've busted: David Carr, Heath Shuler, Jim Drunkenmiller, Akili Smith, Tim Couch, etc. There are gonna be a lot of em because QBs just historically have bigger hands. There are some, like Mike Vick, who have relatively small hands and have been successful despite being a Run/pass QB. Doug Flutie didn't have notoriously large hands despite being a short QB. In other words, the data isn't completely clear.
If I'm evaluating a QB, I'm definitely looking at hand size, but I think it's down the list in terms of attributes.
1. Football IQ and Awareness
2. Accuracy
3. Arm strength
4. Short area agility
5. Speed
6. Hand size + Wingspan (note: together)
7. How much more obsessed with football is this player than others at his position?
8. Leadership intangibles
9. Competitiveness
Leadership intangibles should be higher up on your list, IMO. Look at a guy like Cutler. Has all of the physical tools, but is a crappy leader and communicator. Hasn't won squat, and his teammates don't go to war for him. I like your list, but I think I'd have leadership #2, short area agility before arm strength (Peyton Manning), and speed #8. You don't have to be fast to be a great QB.
Leadership intangibles should be higher up on your list, IMO. Look at a guy like Cutler. Has all of the physical tools, but is a crappy leader and communicator. Hasn't won squat, and his teammates don't go to war for him. I like your list, but I think I'd have leadership #2, short area agility before arm strength (Peyton Manning), and speed #8. You don't have to be fast to be a great QB.
bernie kosar makes mince meat of that list beyond one and two. one of the most ungifted physical qb specimens ive ever seen on any level....yet he carried his teams on intelligence and force of will/leadership to a very successful career at both levels.
yeah, leadership should be much higher.
Coley was telling me and my boy the other day about hand size for QB's. He said Jameis Winston holds a football like an average person a tennis ball, he said Morris can barely palm a basketball
Me and LuCane talk about this all the time. I am a MAJOR proponent of hand size in quarterbacks.
I know George Whitfield (Manziel and Cam's QB coach) pretty well, and he told me that hand size is one of the most important attributes he looks for.
Manziel is much smaller than Tannehill, but has much bigger hands. That's why he transitions from passing to running so naturally-- the ball is just an extension of his body. When Tannehill transitions from passer to runner, he has to gear down for a split second to make sure he has the ball secure. That split second makes a huge defense.
For a short quarterback, big hands are an absolute must. It's no coincidence that Russell Wilson and Drew Brees have huge hands.
The king of hand size is probably Joe Namath. Check out the pass to Don Maynard against the Chiefs at the 1:05 mark. That's the definition of "grip it and rip it."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTPZWj755Ao
I think it's a worthwhile topic, but I think people are swinging too far in the direction of "hand size = critical factor for success." I think, like D$ and I drunkenly discussed recently, it's a matter of context and style. If you're a certain style of QB - certainly the guys who rely on grip in the transition from run to pass - you are certainly more likely to need the bigger hand size.
I'm not sure if we're reading into hand size when there have been so many failures of guys with big hand size, successes of guys with big hand size, successes of guys with relatively smaller hands, failures with guys w/ smaller hand size. On top of that, QBs are traditionally guys with height, so they're going to lean toward having larger hands. Here are a list of some QBs with relatively large hands who've busted: David Carr, Heath Shuler, Jim Drunkenmiller, Akili Smith, Tim Couch, etc. There are gonna be a lot of em because QBs just historically have bigger hands. There are some, like Mike Vick, who have relatively small hands and have been successful despite being a Run/pass QB. Doug Flutie didn't have notoriously large hands despite being a short QB. In other words, the data isn't completely clear.
If I'm evaluating a QB, I'm definitely looking at hand size, but I think it's down the list in terms of attributes.
1. Football IQ and Awareness
2. Accuracy
3. Arm strength
4. Short area agility
5. Speed
6. Hand size + Wingspan (note: together)
7. How much more obsessed with football is this player than others at his position?
8. Leadership intangibles
9. Competitiveness
Leadership intangibles should be higher up on your list, IMO. Look at a guy like Cutler. Has all of the physical tools, but is a crappy leader and communicator. Hasn't won squat, and his teammates don't go to war for him. I like your list, but I think I'd have leadership #2, short area agility before arm strength (Peyton Manning), and speed #8. You don't have to be fast to be a great QB.
bernie kosar makes mince meat of that list beyond one and two. one of the most ungifted physical qb specimens ive ever seen on any level....yet he carried his teams on intelligence and force of will/leadership to a very successful career at both levels.
yeah, leadership should be much higher.
2 things:
First of all, the list of factors is relative to other QBs. In other words, how much better is *this* QB over an existing QB at this attribute. Leadership intangibles are difficult to measure and often subjective (mostly using hindsight). They're important and therefore on the list, but difficult to use as an EVALUATION tool. As for Cutler as an example, he struggles mightily with accuracy (footwork and release) and processing information. I think that determines his results more than intangibles.
Back to the leadership qualities, I'd be curious what metric some of you would use in evaluating a QB.
Leadership intangibles should be higher up on your list, IMO. Look at a guy like Cutler. Has all of the physical tools, but is a crappy leader and communicator. Hasn't won squat, and his teammates don't go to war for him. I like your list, but I think I'd have leadership #2, short area agility before arm strength (Peyton Manning), and speed #8. You don't have to be fast to be a great QB.
bernie kosar makes mince meat of that list beyond one and two. one of the most ungifted physical qb specimens ive ever seen on any level....yet he carried his teams on intelligence and force of will/leadership to a very successful career at both levels.
yeah, leadership should be much higher.
2 things:
First of all, the list of factors is relative to other QBs. In other words, how much better is *this* QB over an existing QB at this attribute. Leadership intangibles are difficult to measure and often subjective (mostly using hindsight). They're important and therefore on the list, but difficult to use as an EVALUATION tool. As for Cutler as an example, he struggles mightily with accuracy (footwork and release) and processing information. I think that determines his results more than intangibles.
Back to the leadership qualities, I'd be curious what metric some of you would use in evaluating a QB.
I agree that leadership is tough to evaluate. I guess some people just have a better 'feel' for it than others. I don't think anyone saw the leadership in Tom Brady, or else he would've been drafted a lot higher. Then you have guys like Todd Marinovich...gets busted for blow before the draft, yelled at his coach on the sidelines...and the Raiders take him in the first round. Go figure. That said, I think guys that are clear leaders (Kaaya?) or dumbarses (Marinovich, who everyone knew was a waste, even in high school) can probably be evaluated to some extent.
Cutler may not be the most accurate or have good footwork, but he isn't a leader either. Perhaps he'd have a better chance at overcoming those issues if he had the support of his teammates and command of the huddle.
@LukeStampini: UF is expanding their DT board: Edgar Cerenord hearing from the Gators now. http://t.co/G6un8F0kMC via @247Sports