Miami has offered DT Edgar Cerenord

[valid]

If we keep everyone committed and add Cerenord and Heurtelou...this DT class gets an A freaking +.

 

[CaneFanJosh]

If we keep everyone committed and add Cerenord and Heurtelou...this DT class gets an A freaking +.

This. I want Heurtelou and Cerenord to get us some balanced DT depth. Heurtelou can play immediately (hopefully) while Cerenord can redshirt and develop and be ready to go as a redshirt soph.

Looking forward, Valentine and Moten as juniors and Cerenord and Jenkins as redshirt sophs would be a **** good two deep.

 

[bransuperpower]

I'm just sitting back till NSD and see who all makes it in. I have only been following reciting for a year and I have learned my lesson with DT's

 

[Canething]

Give me the big uglies

 

[RiDLer80]

I'm just sitting back till NSD and see who all makes it in. I have only been following reciting for a year and I have learned my lesson with DT's

Then you'll be uneasy until August.

****, we even had Edwards last year start practicing, get flagged and then get cleared again.

 

[RiDLer80]

Give me the big uglies

Word. I ain't gonna complain about bringing in more DTs especially with the lack of depth and talent we have right now.

 

[LuCane]

Coley was telling me and my boy the other day about hand size for QB's. He said Jameis Winston holds a football like an average person a tennis ball, he said Morris can barely palm a basketball

Me and LuCane talk about this all the time. I am a MAJOR proponent of hand size in quarterbacks.

I know George Whitfield (Manziel and Cam's QB coach) pretty well, and he told me that hand size is one of the most important attributes he looks for.

Manziel is much smaller than Tannehill, but has much bigger hands. That's why he transitions from passing to running so naturally-- the ball is just an extension of his body. When Tannehill transitions from passer to runner, he has to gear down for a split second to make sure he has the ball secure. That split second makes a huge defense.

For a short quarterback, big hands are an absolute must. It's no coincidence that Russell Wilson and Drew Brees have huge hands.

The king of hand size is probably Joe Namath. Check out the pass to Don Maynard against the Chiefs at the 1:05 mark. That's the definition of "grip it and rip it."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTPZWj755Ao

I think it's a worthwhile topic, but I think people are swinging too far in the direction of "hand size = critical factor for success." I think, like D$ and I drunkenly discussed recently, it's a matter of context and style. If you're a certain style of QB - certainly the guys who rely on grip in the transition from run to pass - you are certainly more likely to need the bigger hand size.

I'm not sure if we're reading into hand size when there have been so many failures of guys with big hand size, successes of guys with big hand size, successes of guys with relatively smaller hands, failures with guys w/ smaller hand size. On top of that, QBs are traditionally guys with height, so they're going to lean toward having larger hands. Here is a list of some QBs with relatively large hands who've busted: David Carr, Heath Shuler, Jim Drunkenmiller, Akili Smith, Tim Couch, etc. There are gonna be a lot of em because QBs just historically have bigger hands. There are some, like Mike Vick, who have relatively small hands and have been successful despite being a Run/pass QB. Doug Flutie didn't have notoriously large hands despite being a short QB. In other words, the data isn't completely clear.

If I'm evaluating a QB, I'm definitely looking at hand size, but I think it's down the list in terms of attributes.

1. Football IQ and Awareness
2. Accuracy
3. Arm strength
4. Short area agility
5. Speed
6. Hand size + Wingspan (note: together)
7. How much more obsessed with football is this player than others at his position?
8. Leadership intangibles

 

[BigCaneAl]

Coley was telling me and my boy the other day about hand size for QB's. He said Jameis Winston holds a football like an average person a tennis ball, he said Morris can barely palm a basketball

Me and LuCane talk about this all the time. I am a MAJOR proponent of hand size in quarterbacks.

I know George Whitfield (Manziel and Cam's QB coach) pretty well, and he told me that hand size is one of the most important attributes he looks for.

Manziel is much smaller than Tannehill, but has much bigger hands. That's why he transitions from passing to running so naturally-- the ball is just an extension of his body. When Tannehill transitions from passer to runner, he has to gear down for a split second to make sure he has the ball secure. That split second makes a huge defense.

For a short quarterback, big hands are an absolute must. It's no coincidence that Russell Wilson and Drew Brees have huge hands.

The king of hand size is probably Joe Namath. Check out the pass to Don Maynard against the Chiefs at the 1:05 mark. That's the definition of "grip it and rip it."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTPZWj755Ao

I think it's a worthwhile topic, but I think people are swinging too far in the direction of "hand size = critical factor for success." I think, like D$ and I drunkenly discussed recently, it's a matter of context and style. If you're a certain style of QB - certainly the guys who rely on grip in the transition from run to pass - you are certainly more likely to need the bigger hand size.

I'm not sure if we're reading into hand size when there have been so many failures of guys with big hand size, successes of guys with big hand size, successes of guys with relatively smaller hands, failures with guys w/ smaller hand size. On top of that, QBs are traditionally guys with height, so they're going to lean toward having larger hands. Here are a list of some QBs with relatively large hands who've busted: David Carr, Heath Shuler, Jim Drunkenmiller, Akili Smith, Tim Couch, etc. There are gonna be a lot of em because QBs just historically have bigger hands. There are some, like Mike Vick, who have relatively small hands and have been successful despite being a Run/pass QB. Doug Flutie didn't have notoriously large hands despite being a short QB. In other words, the data isn't completely clear.

If I'm evaluating a QB, I'm definitely looking at hand size, but I think it's down the list in terms of attributes.

1. Football IQ and Awareness
2. Accuracy
3. Arm strength
4. Short area agility
5. Speed
6. Hand size + Wingspan (note: together)
7. How much more obsessed with football is this player than others at his position?
8. Leadership intangibles

9. Competitiveness

 

[sebastian91]

Leadership intangibles should be higher up on your list, IMO. Look at a guy like Cutler. Has all of the physical tools, but is a crappy leader and communicator. Hasn't won squat, and his teammates don't go to war for him. I like your list, but I think I'd have leadership #2, short area agility before arm strength (Peyton Manning), and speed #8. You don't have to be fast to be a great QB.

 

[MD C A N E]

Coley was telling me and my boy the other day about hand size for QB's. He said Jameis Winston holds a football like an average person a tennis ball, he said Morris can barely palm a basketball

Me and LuCane talk about this all the time. I am a MAJOR proponent of hand size in quarterbacks.

I know George Whitfield (Manziel and Cam's QB coach) pretty well, and he told me that hand size is one of the most important attributes he looks for.

Manziel is much smaller than Tannehill, but has much bigger hands. That's why he transitions from passing to running so naturally-- the ball is just an extension of his body. When Tannehill transitions from passer to runner, he has to gear down for a split second to make sure he has the ball secure. That split second makes a huge defense.

For a short quarterback, big hands are an absolute must. It's no coincidence that Russell Wilson and Drew Brees have huge hands.

The king of hand size is probably Joe Namath. Check out the pass to Don Maynard against the Chiefs at the 1:05 mark. That's the definition of "grip it and rip it."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTPZWj755Ao

I think it's a worthwhile topic, but I think people are swinging too far in the direction of "hand size = critical factor for success." I think, like D$ and I drunkenly discussed recently, it's a matter of context and style. If you're a certain style of QB - certainly the guys who rely on grip in the transition from run to pass - you are certainly more likely to need the bigger hand size.

I'm not sure if we're reading into hand size when there have been so many failures of guys with big hand size, successes of guys with big hand size, successes of guys with relatively smaller hands, failures with guys w/ smaller hand size. On top of that, QBs are traditionally guys with height, so they're going to lean toward having larger hands. Here are a list of some QBs with relatively large hands who've busted: David Carr, Heath Shuler, Jim Drunkenmiller, Akili Smith, Tim Couch, etc. There are gonna be a lot of em because QBs just historically have bigger hands. There are some, like Mike Vick, who have relatively small hands and have been successful despite being a Run/pass QB. Doug Flutie didn't have notoriously large hands despite being a short QB. In other words, the data isn't completely clear.

If I'm evaluating a QB, I'm definitely looking at hand size, but I think it's down the list in terms of attributes.

1. Football IQ and Awareness
2. Accuracy
3. Arm strength
4. Short area agility
5. Speed
6. Hand size + Wingspan (note: together)
7. How much more obsessed with football is this player than others at his position?
8. Leadership intangibles

9. Competitiveness

should be the most important

 

[Dandycane]

Leadership intangibles should be higher up on your list, IMO. Look at a guy like Cutler. Has all of the physical tools, but is a crappy leader and communicator. Hasn't won squat, and his teammates don't go to war for him. I like your list, but I think I'd have leadership #2, short area agility before arm strength (Peyton Manning), and speed #8. You don't have to be fast to be a great QB.

bernie kosar makes mince meat of that list beyond one and two. one of the most ungifted physical qb specimens ive ever seen on any level....yet he carried his teams on intelligence and force of will/leadership to a very successful career at both levels.

yeah, leadership should be much higher.

 

[LuCane]

Leadership intangibles should be higher up on your list, IMO. Look at a guy like Cutler. Has all of the physical tools, but is a crappy leader and communicator. Hasn't won squat, and his teammates don't go to war for him. I like your list, but I think I'd have leadership #2, short area agility before arm strength (Peyton Manning), and speed #8. You don't have to be fast to be a great QB.

bernie kosar makes mince meat of that list beyond one and two. one of the most ungifted physical qb specimens ive ever seen on any level....yet he carried his teams on intelligence and force of will/leadership to a very successful career at both levels.

yeah, leadership should be much higher.

2 things:

First of all, the list of factors is relative to other QBs. In other words, how much better is *this* QB over an existing QB at this attribute. Leadership intangibles are difficult to measure and often subjective (mostly using hindsight). They're important and therefore on the list, but difficult to use as an EVALUATION tool. As for Cutler as an example, he struggles mightily with accuracy (footwork and release) and processing information. I think that determines his results more than intangibles.

I find the comment about Kosar making the list "minced meat" troubling. He's a perfect example of that list holding up. Funny that you start with "beyond one and two." It's like saying your post was good except for the most important points you tried to communicate. He was great on 3 of the first 4 attributes. Note, I didn't write in anywhere re: mechanics, conventional play or even a huge topic for me: release. Those things are subcategories of items like accuracy.

Back to the leadership qualities, I'd be curious what metric some of you would use in evaluating a QB.

 

[LuCane]

Coley was telling me and my boy the other day about hand size for QB's. He said Jameis Winston holds a football like an average person a tennis ball, he said Morris can barely palm a basketball

Me and LuCane talk about this all the time. I am a MAJOR proponent of hand size in quarterbacks.

I know George Whitfield (Manziel and Cam's QB coach) pretty well, and he told me that hand size is one of the most important attributes he looks for.

Manziel is much smaller than Tannehill, but has much bigger hands. That's why he transitions from passing to running so naturally-- the ball is just an extension of his body. When Tannehill transitions from passer to runner, he has to gear down for a split second to make sure he has the ball secure. That split second makes a huge defense.

For a short quarterback, big hands are an absolute must. It's no coincidence that Russell Wilson and Drew Brees have huge hands.

The king of hand size is probably Joe Namath. Check out the pass to Don Maynard against the Chiefs at the 1:05 mark. That's the definition of "grip it and rip it."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTPZWj755Ao

I think it's a worthwhile topic, but I think people are swinging too far in the direction of "hand size = critical factor for success." I think, like D$ and I drunkenly discussed recently, it's a matter of context and style. If you're a certain style of QB - certainly the guys who rely on grip in the transition from run to pass - you are certainly more likely to need the bigger hand size.

I'm not sure if we're reading into hand size when there have been so many failures of guys with big hand size, successes of guys with big hand size, successes of guys with relatively smaller hands, failures with guys w/ smaller hand size. On top of that, QBs are traditionally guys with height, so they're going to lean toward having larger hands. Here are a list of some QBs with relatively large hands who've busted: David Carr, Heath Shuler, Jim Drunkenmiller, Akili Smith, Tim Couch, etc. There are gonna be a lot of em because QBs just historically have bigger hands. There are some, like Mike Vick, who have relatively small hands and have been successful despite being a Run/pass QB. Doug Flutie didn't have notoriously large hands despite being a short QB. In other words, the data isn't completely clear.

If I'm evaluating a QB, I'm definitely looking at hand size, but I think it's down the list in terms of attributes.

1. Football IQ and Awareness
2. Accuracy
3. Arm strength
4. Short area agility
5. Speed
6. Hand size + Wingspan (note: together)
7. How much more obsessed with football is this player than others at his position?
8. Leadership intangibles

9. Competitiveness

It's #7. Using the list to compare players, I knock it down because you can find bigger margins in the other attributes, IMO.

 

[sebastian91]

Leadership intangibles should be higher up on your list, IMO. Look at a guy like Cutler. Has all of the physical tools, but is a crappy leader and communicator. Hasn't won squat, and his teammates don't go to war for him. I like your list, but I think I'd have leadership #2, short area agility before arm strength (Peyton Manning), and speed #8. You don't have to be fast to be a great QB.

bernie kosar makes mince meat of that list beyond one and two. one of the most ungifted physical qb specimens ive ever seen on any level....yet he carried his teams on intelligence and force of will/leadership to a very successful career at both levels.

yeah, leadership should be much higher.

2 things:

First of all, the list of factors is relative to other QBs. In other words, how much better is *this* QB over an existing QB at this attribute. Leadership intangibles are difficult to measure and often subjective (mostly using hindsight). They're important and therefore on the list, but difficult to use as an EVALUATION tool. As for Cutler as an example, he struggles mightily with accuracy (footwork and release) and processing information. I think that determines his results more than intangibles.


Back to the leadership qualities, I'd be curious what metric some of you would use in evaluating a QB.

I agree that leadership is tough to evaluate. I guess some people just have a better 'feel' for it than others. I don't think anyone saw the leadership in Tom Brady, or else he would've been drafted a lot higher. Then you have guys like Todd Marinovich...gets busted for blow before the draft, yelled at his coach on the sidelines...and the Raiders take him in the first round. Go figure. That said, I think guys that are clear leaders (Kaaya?) or dumbarses (Marinovich, who everyone knew was a waste, even in high school) can probably be evaluated to some extent.

Cutler may not be the most accurate or have good footwork, but he isn't a leader either. Perhaps he'd have a better chance at overcoming those issues if he had the support of his teammates and command of the huddle.

 

[BoxingRobes]

South Florida has had some DTs like this go to some mid-level D1 and ball out or become contributors very early in their careers that we haven't even looked at. Luther Maddy, Elkino Watson, Monty Nelson, Teko Powell, Trevon Coley... Miami needs to start getting these kind of guys. Not all of them, because not all of those types can play here, but some local guys who can play a little bit. DT is a spot where you need a nice rotation and good depth.

 

[LuCane]

Leadership intangibles should be higher up on your list, IMO. Look at a guy like Cutler. Has all of the physical tools, but is a crappy leader and communicator. Hasn't won squat, and his teammates don't go to war for him. I like your list, but I think I'd have leadership #2, short area agility before arm strength (Peyton Manning), and speed #8. You don't have to be fast to be a great QB.

bernie kosar makes mince meat of that list beyond one and two. one of the most ungifted physical qb specimens ive ever seen on any level....yet he carried his teams on intelligence and force of will/leadership to a very successful career at both levels.

yeah, leadership should be much higher.

2 things:

First of all, the list of factors is relative to other QBs. In other words, how much better is *this* QB over an existing QB at this attribute. Leadership intangibles are difficult to measure and often subjective (mostly using hindsight). They're important and therefore on the list, but difficult to use as an EVALUATION tool. As for Cutler as an example, he struggles mightily with accuracy (footwork and release) and processing information. I think that determines his results more than intangibles.


Back to the leadership qualities, I'd be curious what metric some of you would use in evaluating a QB.

I agree that leadership is tough to evaluate. I guess some people just have a better 'feel' for it than others. I don't think anyone saw the leadership in Tom Brady, or else he would've been drafted a lot higher. Then you have guys like Todd Marinovich...gets busted for blow before the draft, yelled at his coach on the sidelines...and the Raiders take him in the first round. Go figure. That said, I think guys that are clear leaders (Kaaya?) or dumbarses (Marinovich, who everyone knew was a waste, even in high school) can probably be evaluated to some extent.

Cutler may not be the most accurate or have good footwork, but he isn't a leader either. Perhaps he'd have a better chance at overcoming those issues if he had the support of his teammates and command of the huddle.

I think it's just a tough attribute overall. I think it's something that can tip a guy from an above average QB to a star QB (or vice versa). The Cutler example is interesting because, IMO, if he were a better on-field decision-maker (processed info quicker and better) and more accurate (mechanics + footwork + anticipation, etc.), he'd produce better individual results. That would likely lead to more (team) wins. Then, despite his attitude, people might consider he "willed" his team to victory. Great leader or just hindsight? Was Marino a ****** leader? Was Elway a ****** leader until he got Davis? In terms of evaluations, this seems to be where science meets art.

 

[TheSwagger1]

Gogeta, I referenced the Dumervil bros earlier in this thread when discussing Whitlock!

 

[FRCane]

It is a well-known fact that Boston Celtics point guard Rajon Rondo has huge hands — “the largest hands the Celtics’ current training staff has ever measured,” according to Peter F. Stringer in an article for Celtics.com.
How large, you might ask?
Nine-and-a-half inches long and 10 inches wide, says ESPN’s Emmy-winning Sport Science, which also notes that Rondo’s larger-than-life hands make his wingspan 11 percent longer than Leonardo Da Vinci’s study of human proportions would predict.
Both factors help to explain why Rondo accumulates so many steals and assists each year, including an NBA-best 11.2 average assists per game this season.
Rondo’s huge hands inspired ESPN Marketing’s latest This is SportsCenter spot, which launched today on television and online.
In the spot, SportsCenter’s Steve Levy advises fellow anchor John Anderson not to look directly at Rondo’s hands. Anderson ignores the advice and quickly realizes just how small his own are in comparison.
Anderson said there was humor to be found off camera, too.
“I mostly enjoyed the breaks in filming when Rondo and his cousin would go outside the building and just sit on a bench,” Anderson said. “The number of people whoo stopped or did a double take to look at Rondo in full uniform just chillin’ was comical.”
Anderson, a former University of Missouri high jumper, was not surprised at the size of the 6-foot, 1-inch Rondo’s hands.
“I was more surprised that I am taller than he is,” Anderson said.

Strong correlation to big hands and wing span .... contrary to popular belief, however, has nothing to do with ***** size.

 

[Cane Convict]

@LukeStampini: UF is expanding their DT board: Edgar Cerenord hearing from the Gators now. http://t.co/G6un8F0kMC via @247Sports

 

[M3N]

@LukeStampini: UF is expanding their DT board: Edgar Cerenord hearing from the Gators now. http://t.co/G6un8F0kMC via @247Sports

Muschump riding off Goldens coat tails... Hopefully EC pulls the trigger for the CANES