Off-Topic Mass killings

[NC_Canes_11]

There’s no gun problem in this country.

 

[crossover22[]_[]]

I don't know where this idea that there was no gun violence in the past and less shootings. In certain respects, gun violence rates are less in recent years than in past decades. The increase in the number of total deaths is likely due to an increase in population. The increase of deaths per shooting is likely due to increase of more powerful, higher capacity weapons such as ar-15 for example. Also, statistics show that states with more stringent gun regulations have lower gun violence rates than less stringent states.

Also, there have been school shootings in the US for years. Yes, the rate has seemingly increased. But that also coincides with the ease and access of certain weapons. It's essentially the same issue with suicides. There are numerous of studies on this issue. There is an increase in suicide rates when you introduce accessible firearms. The same is true for school shootings as study after study have found. There are mental issues in every country. These gun deaths don't occur in those countries because they do not have the ease of access to weapons or the same kinds of weapons. It's also not lack of "faith" or religion. The US routinely averages higher % of religious people, faith abiding, etc. than most of the rest of Europe and other civilized countries. Those countries don't have the issue we have.

Also, while we DO need to address mental health issues in this country, it is not fair to paint a broad stroke that it is the cause of a majority of gun violence or school shootings. This has been studied and it is not accurate.

This is an awful issue to have. We can all agree that gun violence needs to stop. No one wants people to suffer because of it, especially not children. But we need to take a realistic look at what is happening based on evidence and facts. It needs to be a multi faceted approach. Yes, we should address mental issues in this country. And yes, we also need to do something about the guns in this country and the type of guns available. Feel free to read some of the links below, studies they cite, etc, or not. But this is a problem that needs to be solved and we need an open mind in doing so.

What the data says about gun deaths in the U.S.

More Americans died of gun-related injuries in 2021 than in any other year on record, according to the latest available statistics from the CDC.

www.pewresearch.org

History of School Shootings in the United States | K12 Academics

1700s The earliest known United States shooting to happen on school property was the Pontiac's Rebellion school massacre on July 26, 1764, where four Lenape American Indian entered the schoolhouse near present-day Greencastle, Pennsylvania, shot and killed schoolmaster Enoch Brown, and killed...

www.k12academics.com

Americans are far more religious than adults in other wealthy nations

U.S. adults pray more often, are more likely to attend weekly religious services and see faith as more important than those in other wealthy Western democracies.

www.pewresearch.org

Handgun ownership associated with much higher suicide risk

Men who own handguns are eight times more likely to die of gun suicides than men who don’t own handguns, and women who own handguns are 35 times more likely than women who don’t.

med.stanford.edu

Do States with Easier Access to Guns have More Suicide Deaths by Firearm? | KFF

The recent mass shootings in Uvalde and Buffalo have catalyzed discussion around mental health and gun policy. In the same week that the federal Bipartisan Safer Communities Act was signed strengthening background checks for young adults, adding incentives for red flag laws, and reducing access...

www.kff.org

Debunking Myths About Gun Violence | Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health

Dangerous myths distract from the real—and solvable—problems behind gun violence.

publichealth.jhu.edu

Gun violence: Prediction, prevention, and policy

This report reviews research-based evidence on the causes of gun violence, including homicide, suicide or school shooting. How do mental health and mental illness affect prediction of gun violence? What can be done at the individual and community level to prevent gun violence?

www.apa.org

List all the school shootings from the 1950s until 2023.

Then when you see the numbers rise drastically take a look at when kids started being put on medications for adhd, anxiety, depression. Then look at when the internet became widely available to the public.



We need to do something about guns in this country? Literally one of the most anti American things that can be said.


There are more guns than people in this country. Guns arent going anywhere and no law will stop these idiots from committing crimes.


Murder is already ILLEGAL. does murder being illegal stop murders from occurring????? Rape is ILLEGAL. do rape laws stop rape from occurring??????

Im so tired of these stupid arguments that wont save lives. What will save lives is protecting our kids with guns. You know like how we protect our politicians, our entertainers, and our money. Instead we leave our most precious vulnerable children unprotected.

Im looking to solve a problem. Youre looking to strip rights. Major difference.

 

[crossover22[]_[]]

Look up the areas in this country with the most concealed carry holders then look at violent crime rates.


Funny how Chicago has some of the strictest gun laws yet the worst gun violence. Hmmmm. I wonder why?


Tired of stupid *** Americans!!!! Dont want to solve problems. Just want to whine about a hunk of metal that cant do **** unless a person pulls the trigger.

 

[ItsMeD]

List all the school shootings from the 1950s until 2023.

Then when you see the numbers rise drastically take a look at when kids started being put on medications for adhd, anxiety, depression. Then look at when the internet became widely available to the public.



We need to do something about guns in this country? Literally one of the most anti American things that can be said.


There are more guns than people in this country. Guns arent going anywhere and no law will stop these idiots from committing crimes.


Murder is already ILLEGAL. does murder being illegal stop murders from occurring????? Rape is ILLEGAL. do rape laws stop rape from occurring??????

Im so tired of these stupid arguments that wont save lives. What will save lives is protecting our kids with guns. You know like how we protect our politicians, our entertainers, and our money. Instead we leave our most precious vulnerable children unprotected.

Im looking to solve a problem. Youre looking to strip rights. Major difference.

Anti American? Do you think rights have free reign and cannot be limited? Have you ever tried protesting in front of an embassy? Even in Heller, Justice Scalia explicitly held that it can be regulated.

“Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment right is not unlimited…. [It is] not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.”

So are you going to now say Justice Scalia is "anti american." This is a completely ridiculous and obtuse statement and position and one of the issues facing us. I provided you with actual facts. Links to studies with citations. I am quoting from the actual decision from the majority and you're talking about your opinion, feelings, and I don't know what.

And this reasoning that murders still occur despite laws against murder. Are you suggesting we should remove all laws? Yes, of course crimes still occur. We don't say let's stop trying to eliminate crime because someone will still commit a crime. But the facts are laws to deter crimes. This has been true over thousands of years and is the basis of society. The FACTS are that the more guns available the more gun violence there is. The more guns are accessible the more gun deaths there are. Those are the facts. You can continue to deal with opinions, feelings, and rhetoric if you'd like, since you dont want to deal with reality and rather peddle propaganda.

 

[crossover22[]_[]]

Anti American? Do you think rights have free reign and cannot be limited? Have you ever tried protesting in front of an embassy? Even in Heller, Justice Scalia explicitly held that it can be regulated.

“Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment right is not unlimited…. [It is] not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.”

So are you going to now say Justice Scalia is "anti american." This is a completely ridiculous and obtuse statement and position and one of the issues facing us. I provided you with actual facts. Links to studies with citations. I am quoting from the actual decision from the majority and you're talking about your opinion, feelings, and I don't know what.

And this reasoning that murders still occur despite laws against murder. Are you suggesting we should remove all laws? Yes, of course crimes still occur. We don't say let's stop trying to eliminate crime because someone will still commit a crime. But the facts are laws to deter crimes. This has been true over thousands of years and is the basis of society. The FACTS are that the more guns available the more gun violence there is. The more guns are accessible the more gun deaths there are. Those are the facts. You can continue to deal with opinions, feelings, and rhetoric if you'd like, since you dont want to deal with reality and rather peddle propaganda.

No it is not facts. Areas with more guns and more concealed carry holders are safer than areas with less guns. Fact!

the American population, are either “right-to-carry” states – where anyone without a criminal record will be issued a permit – or require no permit at all (though there are legal restrictions carrying weapons by felons, dometic abusers, etc.). In 1988 there were only ten “right-to-carry”. Statistics show that in these states the crime rate fell (or did not rise) after the right-to-carry law became active.

Fact: Gun homicides were 10% higher in states with restrictive CCW laws, according to a study spanning 1980-2009. 5

Fact: Crime rates involving gun owners with carry licenses have consistently been about 0.02% of all carry permit holders since Florida’s right-to-carry law started in 1988. 6

Fact: After passing their concealed carry law, Florida’s homicide rate fell from 36% above the national average to 4% below. 7

Fact: In Texas, murder rates fell 50% faster than the national average in the year after their concealed carry law passed. Rape rates fell 93% faster in the first year after enactment, and 500% faster in the second. 8 Assaults fell 250% faster in the second year. 9

Fact: Crime is significantly higher in states without right-to-carry laws. 10



The right to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. funny how they put that in there for everyone to see.

Yes saying limiting guns is unamerican. Same as if i said we should limit the right to free speech.

 

[ItsMeD]

No it is not facts. Areas with more guns and more concealed carry holders are safer than areas with less guns. Fact!

the American population, are either “right-to-carry” states – where anyone without a criminal record will be issued a permit – or require no permit at all (though there are legal restrictions carrying weapons by felons, dometic abusers, etc.). In 1988 there were only ten “right-to-carry”. Statistics show that in these states the crime rate fell (or did not rise) after the right-to-carry law became active.

Fact: Gun homicides were 10% higher in states with restrictive CCW laws, according to a study spanning 1980-2009. 5

Fact: Crime rates involving gun owners with carry licenses have consistently been about 0.02% of all carry permit holders since Florida’s right-to-carry law started in 1988. 6

Fact: After passing their concealed carry law, Florida’s homicide rate fell from 36% above the national average to 4% below. 7

Fact: In Texas, murder rates fell 50% faster than the national average in the year after their concealed carry law passed. Rape rates fell 93% faster in the first year after enactment, and 500% faster in the second. 8 Assaults fell 250% faster in the second year. 9

Fact: Crime is significantly higher in states without right-to-carry laws. 10



The right to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. funny how they put that in there for everyone to see.

Yes saying limiting guns is unamerican. Same as if i said we should limit the right to free speech.

It's funny how you conveniently left out the full second amendment.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State

As former Chief Justice Warren Burger said (a lifelong conservative who was appointed by Nixon), "The gun lobby's interpretation of the Second Amendment is one of the greatest pieces of fraud, I repeat the word fraud, on the American People by special interest groups that I have seen in my lifetime."

"...the real purpose of the Second Amendment was to ensure that state armies, the militia, would be maintained for the defense of the state."

"The very language of the Second Amendment refutes any argument that it was intended to guarantee every citizen an unfettered right to any kind of weapon he or she desires."

But hey, I guess you know more than former Chief Justice. I guess he was "anti american" just like Scalia. But, if you also think you have unlimited free speech I can't help you.

 

[JD08]

It's funny how you conveniently left out the full second amendment.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State

As former Chief Justice Warren Burger said (a lifelong conservative who was appointed by Nixon), "The gun lobby's interpretation of the Second Amendment is one of the greatest pieces of fraud, I repeat the word fraud, on the American People by special interest groups that I have seen in my lifetime."

"...the real purpose of the Second Amendment was to ensure that state armies, the militia, would be maintained for the defense of the state."

"The very language of the Second Amendment refutes any argument that it was intended to guarantee every citizen an unfettered right to any kind of weapon he or she desires."

But hey, I guess you know more than former Chief Justice. I guess he was "anti american" just like Scalia. But, if you also think you have unlimited free speech I can't help you.

What exactly was the state armies, the militia? People want to interpret a well regulated militia by today's terms, but George Mason gave the definition in the Virginia Declaration of Rights.

That a well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided as dangerous to liberty; and that, in all cases, the military should be under strict subordination to, and be governed by, the civil power.

But no, it doesn't guarantee an unfettered right to any kind of weapon and the NFA is evidence of that.

 

[JD08]

And as usual, the issue turns to guns. Let's completely ignore the mental illness angle and the possible impact of psychotropic drugs. The next time there's one of those ads for the latest anti-depression medication, pay attention to the fine print of the announcers speeding through the side effects.

Would it be better that she went in with a knife like has happened in China or drove a truck through a parade?

 

[crossover22[]_[]]

It's funny how you conveniently left out the full second amendment.

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State

As former Chief Justice Warren Burger said (a lifelong conservative who was appointed by Nixon), "The gun lobby's interpretation of the Second Amendment is one of the greatest pieces of fraud, I repeat the word fraud, on the American People by special interest groups that I have seen in my lifetime."

"...the real purpose of the Second Amendment was to ensure that state armies, the militia, would be maintained for the defense of the state."

"The very language of the Second Amendment refutes any argument that it was intended to guarantee every citizen an unfettered right to any kind of weapon he or she desires."

But hey, I guess you know more than former Chief Justice. I guess he was "anti american" just like Scalia. But, if you also think you have unlimited free speech I can't help you.

What was the militia when we fought Britain for our freedom?

It was the PEOPLE!


The right of the People to keep and bear arms. Not hard to understand.

 

[ItsMeD]

And as usual, the issue turns to guns. Let's completely ignore the mental illness angle and the possible impact of psychotropic drugs. The next time there's one of those ads for the latest anti-depression medication, pay attention to the fine print of the announcers speeding through the side effects.

Would it be better that she went in with a knife like has happened in China or drove a truck through a parade?

It turns to guns because it is the elephant in the room 30 to 50% of the population refuses to address. I never said we shouldnt disregard mental illness. I specifically mentioned it needs to be one of the issues addressed as well. But lets not pretend like the US is the only issue with mental illness. There are also massive differences between a knife attack and an attack from an ar15.

 

[crossover22[]_[]]

It turns to guns because it is the elephant in the room 30 to 50% of the population refuses to address. I never said we shouldnt disregard mental illness. I specifically mentioned it needs to be one of the issues addressed as well. But lets not pretend like the US is the only issue with mental illness. There are also massive differences between a knife attack and an attack from an ar15.

rifles kill less than 500 people per year. While hands, fists, feet kill over 650.

Yall arent worried about saving lives. You want to take guns. Just be honest.

You are far more likely to die from a punch than a ar15. Facts!

 

[JD08]

It turns to guns because it is the elephant in the room 30 to 50% of the population refuses to address. I never said we shouldnt disregard mental illness. I specifically mentioned it needs to be one of the issues addressed as well. But lets not pretend like the US is the only issue with mental illness. There are also massive differences between a knife attack and an attack from an ar15.

How many times have you seen the talking heads at the alphabet channels railing about mental health vs guns? Do you think the method of slaughter makes any difference to the families of the victims?

Since there obviously isn't the political will to address what a minority of people believe to be a factor, how about addressing what the majority can agree is a factor?

 

[Tony4Canes]

Then why does a certain side fight Red Flag laws and other mental health initiatives?? Since it’s mental health after all.

 

[crossover22[]_[]]

Then why does a certain side fight Red Flag laws and other mental health initiatives?? Since it’s mental health after all.

Red flag laws are unconstitutional the same way stop and frisk was unconstitutional.

 

[JD08]

Then why does a certain side fight Red Flag laws and other mental health initiatives?? Since it’s mental health after all.

Right back to D vs R.

Do you think that antidepressants, and other drugs that have suicidal thoughts as a side effect are over prescribed? Do they need more oversight? Are there additional interventions that could help alleviate these thoughts?

 

[crossover22[]_[]]

Right back to D vs R.

Do you think that antidepressants, and other drugs that have suicidal thoughts as a side effect are over prescribed? Do they need more oversight? Are there additional interventions that could help alleviate these thoughts?

37 Mass Shooters Who Were On Antidepressants

Here are 37 mass shooters who were either on antidepressants at the time of their rampage, had abruptly quit taking their medication when they went on their spree, or had been prescribed antidepres…

thoughtcatalog.com

 

[Tony4Canes]

Right back to D vs R.

Do you think that antidepressants, and other drugs that have suicidal thoughts as a side effect are over prescribed? Do they need more oversight? Are there additional interventions that could help alleviate these thoughts?

Sure. All that would be mental health initiatives. Is all this only happening here not the rest of the world??

 

[JD08]

Sure. All that would be mental health initiatives. Is all this only happening here not the rest of the world??

But nobody's discussing the role all that plays. All they talk about is the hot button issues they can campaign on.

Where has usage increased?

Psychotropic medicine consumption in 65 countries and regions, 2008-19: a longitudinal study - PubMed

None.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Or should we just blame stress?

School attacks in China - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[crossover22[]_[]]

Start hanging people that commit murder and rape. In public for everyone to see.

**** will stop. Unfortunately people believe prisoners have rights. They had their chance and ****ed it up.

 

[ithacane]

Just in case people care about statistics...

Oh and how do things work out when you ban guns or try to buy them back...