Off-Topic Mass killings

[imurcane]

@CaneinBroward My dad is a Vietnam vet. I asked him about shooting his gun and what kind of a shot he was, etc. I believe I saw @crossover22[]_[] post something about some rifles used. I have owned a gun and am generally open minded-ish, but not a gun freak. I don't recall the model number my dad mentioned. Whatever our military used, AK47 and M16, the biggest differences between those and weapons the enemies used had to do with stopping power, accuracy, and damage done. Is/was there a M4 gun? Im sure the actual round of ammunition plays a vital role in this scenario. Basically my dad explained that with something like an AR15 compared with the gun dad said Id love to know there is a M4 Anyways the AR15 would be junk in war, completely inefficient. You might actually shoot someone with a "kill shot" but bc AR15 doesn't have the stopping power, not as accurate, and if Im not mistaken the ammo might exit cleaner . . . compared to rattling around the body ******* up organs and what not before possibly exiting.


If I may . . . the guns look a lot alike. For gun nerds it may be clear. To the rest of us we see the same thing. The AR15 and guns of its kind are likely trash when thinking of protecting the US, which is why our military doesn't use them. However, to a class, synagogue, church, store, etc an AR15 is scary.

 

[crossover22[]_[]]

@CaneinBroward My dad is a Vietnam vet. I asked him about shooting his gun and what kind of a shot he was, etc. I believe I saw @crossover22[]_[] post something about some rifles used. I have owned a gun and am generally open minded-ish, but not a gun freak. I don't recall the model number my dad mentioned. Whatever our military used, AK47 and M16, the biggest differences between those and weapons the enemies used had to do with stopping power, accuracy, and damage done. Is/was there a M4 gun? Im sure the actual round of ammunition plays a vital role in this scenario. Basically my dad explained that with something like an AR15 compared with the gun dad said Id love to know there is a M4 Anyways the AR15 would be junk in war, completely inefficient. You might actually shoot someone with a "kill shot" but bc AR15 doesn't have the stopping power, not as accurate, and if Im not mistaken the ammo might exit cleaner . . . compared to rattling around the body ******* up organs and what not before possibly exiting.


If I may . . . the guns look a lot alike. For gun nerds it may be clear. To the rest of us we see the same thing. The AR15 and guns of its kind are likely trash when thinking of protecting the US, which is why our military doesn't use them. However, to a class, synagogue, church, store, etc an AR15 is scary.

Any gun carried by a person willing to kill is dangerous.

There are gun calibers way more deadly than a ar15. I mean not even close. They are not used because they aren't talked about as being weapons on war.

I posted a video to show how different calibers do damage to the human body. A shotgun is much more deadly than a pistol or ar15. It also shows old cowboy lever action guns are much more deadly.


If our military thought ar15s were these badass weapons of war they would use them. They use m4s and are developing a new round to be more effective than the .556


Whats also left out of this argument by the left is how many people protect their homes each year with ar15s. If you come to do harm to anyones family they should have the best weapon available to deal with that threat. Period.

 

[imurcane]

For home owners fighting home invaders it sounds like a shotgun might be best. Naturally I’m not suggesting homeowners go out and get shot guns

 

[Suhrthing]

My argument is I recognize the fact that guns are a right as provided in the 2nd amendment. I see how they are needed for home protection, especially in rural areas where police help may be tens of minutes away as well as for hunting and property management.

That being said, I am disgusted by these mass shootings occurring in schools, grocery stores, movie theaters, churches, synogogues, etc. I know that there is no solution that will prevent ALL of these events. However, I am for all things that could help reduce these numbers - mental health access improvement, red flag laws, universal background checks, fingerprint verification, and yes, anything that could reduce the speed with which shots are fired and the lethality of those shots. Pretty much ideas that will reduce the number of people who should not have access to guns and for those that slip through the cracks, reduces the number of people they can kill and/or maim.

Nah. No deal.

 

[Suhrthing]

For home owners fighting home invaders it sounds like a shotgun might be best. Naturally I’m not suggesting homeowners go out and get shot guns

Saiga with a drum magazine!

 

[CaneinBroward]

@CaneinBroward My dad is a Vietnam vet. I asked him about shooting his gun and what kind of a shot he was, etc. I believe I saw @crossover22[]_[] post something about some rifles used. I have owned a gun and am generally open minded-ish, but not a gun freak. I don't recall the model number my dad mentioned. Whatever our military used, AK47 and M16, the biggest differences between those and weapons the enemies used had to do with stopping power, accuracy, and damage done. Is/was there a M4 gun? Im sure the actual round of ammunition plays a vital role in this scenario. Basically my dad explained that with something like an AR15 compared with the gun dad said Id love to know there is a M4 Anyways the AR15 would be junk in war, completely inefficient. You might actually shoot someone with a "kill shot" but bc AR15 doesn't have the stopping power, not as accurate, and if Im not mistaken the ammo might exit cleaner . . . compared to rattling around the body ******* up organs and what not before possibly exiting.


If I may . . . the guns look a lot alike. For gun nerds it may be clear. To the rest of us we see the same thing. The AR15 and guns of its kind are likely trash when thinking of protecting the US, which is why our military doesn't use them. However, to a class, synagogue, church, store, etc an AR15 is scary.

I understand and I was not stating that AR15s were military weapons nor create the same damage as military use weapons. What I am saying is they shoot more rapidly, hold more ammunition, and with more lethality than other weapons available.

At the end of the day, I think we all want to minimize the number of these mass killing events. I just think the elimination of those weapons would save at least some lives as obviously, they are currently legally getting into the hands of too many individuals who have no business having access to them.

 

[crossover22[]_[]]

I understand and I was not stating that AR15s were military weapons nor create the same damage as military use weapons. What I am saying is they shoot more rapidly, hold more ammunition, and with more lethality than other weapons available.

At the end of the day, I think we all want to minimize the number of these mass killing events. I just think the elimination of those weapons would save at least some lives as obviously, they are currently legally getting into the hands of too many individuals who have no business having access to them.

Buddy they dont shoot more rapidly than pistols. Both are semi automatic.


So you dont care about the 1000s more killed with pistols? Why not?

 

[Suhrthing]

. Basically my dad explained that with something like an AR15 compared with the gun dad said Id love to know there is a M4 Anyways the AR15 would be junk in war, completely inefficient. You might actually shoot someone with a "kill shot" but bc AR15 doesn't have the stopping power, not as accurate, and if Im not mistaken the ammo might exit cleaner . . . compared to rattling around the body ******* up organs and what not before possibly exiting.

Not true. Most can't out out shoot an ar15/m4. They're the same platform. Most ar15s are chambered to handle 5.56. Military is using ball ammo, while plenty deadly - doesn't cause as much trauma as hollow point rounds. But even if ball ammo hits bone - it can cause quite the horrific wound. The biggest difference between an ar15 and an m4/m16 is select fire. Ballistics are basically the same with a quality barrel of the same length.

 

[Suhrthing]

 

[CaneinBroward]

Buddy they dont shoot more rapidly than pistols. Both are semi automatic.


So you dont care about the 1000s more killed with pistols? Why not?

Buddy, how does wanting to minimize the number of people killed at one time mean that I do not care about others shot by pistols that kill one or 2 people at a time? Of course I would like to have the number of those murders reduced as well, hence why I am in favor of greater mental health access, formal gun training and registration, greater police presence, universal background checks, fingerprint verification, and red flag laws.

As I said, I don't want all guns gone. However, pistols don't hold up to 100 rounds of ammunition in one magazine. Look, there will always be these events. It would be nice to have fewer people die and maimed until good guys with a gun can take out the perp.

 

[crossover22[]_[]]

Buddy, how does wanting to minimize the number of people killed at one time mean that I do not care about others shot by pistols that kill one or 2 people at a time? Of course I would like to have the number of those murders reduced as well, hence why I am in favor of greater mental health access, formal gun training and registration, greater police presence, universal background checks, fingerprint verification, and red flag laws.

As I said, I don't want all guns gone. However, pistols don't hold up to 100 rounds of ammunition in one magazine. Look, there will always be these events. It would be nice to have fewer people die and maimed until good guys with a gun can take out the perp.

Because your argument doesn't make sense and is full of lies.

Pistols kills 10,000 more people per year than ar15s. You said you are in favor of getting rid of ar15s but are ok leaving the pistols that kill 10,000 more people.

 

[crossover22[]_[]]

Lmfao. They paid 150 each?

 

[ithacane]

Because your argument doesn't make sense and is full of lies.

Pistols kills 10,000 more people per year than ar15s. You said you are in favor of getting rid of ar15s but are ok leaving the pistols that kill 10,000 more people.

The thing that I just can’t get past is… only when it’s a lone shooter (like Uvalde, highland park, Buffalo) do we get the political shenanigans. But Chicago (which has strict guns laws) is set to surpass 1000 gun related homicides this year. Some like to blame the guns on Indiana (I guess cause it’s a red state)… but I posted a link in this thread that the guns are mostly illegal and come from all over the world… not Indiana.

How come there’s no talk about cleaning up Chicago and getting the illegal guns off the streets? How does lightfoot get away being being such a terrible mayor? Just cause the peeps of Chicago are dumb enough to vote for her? I mean, I’ve heard from other dems in Chicago just blast her… but do people like how she is slowly killing the city of Chicago ?

We keep hearing about “weapons of war” but as educated Rs in congress and many on here have proved many times over… these are not weapons of war

 

[Tony4Canes]

So, how do local governments and citizens slow down the gun violence??

I would imagine all the gun experts want Constitutional Carry laws. What else?

What does it hurt to raise age for all gun purchases to 21?? The US Government did it for alcohol and cigarettes.

What does it hurt to have background check if you want to buy a gun at a show or a private sale??

 

[ithacane]

So, how do local governments and citizens slow down the gun violence??

I would imagine all the gun experts want Constitutional Carry laws. What else?

What does it hurt to raise age for all gun purchases to 21?? The US Government did it for alcohol and cigarettes.

What does it hurt to have background check if you want to buy a gun at a show??

IMO u do in Chicago what they do in Boston. You have religious and other community leaders/people get out into the communities and try to keep as many kids as possible out of gangs. Give them alternatives… like late night sports clubs and the like. U stop the stupid defund the police and u increase the number of HIGHLY TRAINED cops. You allow stop and frisk (which helped clean up NYC with Giuliani).

Concealed carry is a good thing too… cause then the bad guys don’t know whom to mess with… but there are a ton of things I would do first. These were just the first things that came to mind

 

[Tony4Canes]

Chicago tries and they get shot. It is crazy there. It’s been happening even before Lightfoot.

 

[JD08]

Well, hammers, knives, cars, swimming pools, and baseball bats main use is for something other than killing people. And even though guns really only use is to kill and/or maim, I still see how they are useful for the purposes that I mentioned.

Regarding your comment about the largest mass shootings, you are incorrect stating the largest mass shooting was the pistol at VT. That was 32 deaths. The actual largest was the 60 killed in Las Vegas followed by the 49 killed in Orlando at the Pulse nightclub.

In 10 minutes, the Las Vegas shooter was able to get off over 1,000 rounds killing 60 and wounding over 400. The Orlando shooter was able to get off 200 rounds in less than 5 minutes.

As you said, the VT event was horrible with multiple deaths. However, they occurred over a few hours' time. Imagine, if his weapon of choice was an AR15? Of course, it would be ideal to eliminate those events from occurring as well, but I don't think all guns should be outlawed.

The Vegas shooter could have had 200 5 round magazines and accomplished the same with any number of rifles. He had the luxury of being blockaded and a difficult to reach vantage point.

 

[CaneinBroward]

The Vegas shooter could have had 200 5 round magazines and accomplished the same with any number of rifles. He had the luxury of being blockaded and a difficult to reach vantage point.

Again, nothing is fail-safe, but make it more difficult for him to get the rounds out as quickly so more time for good guys with guns.

Seat belts don't save every life in car accidents either.

 

[crossover22[]_[]]

The thing that I just can’t get past is… only when it’s a lone shooter (like Uvalde, highland park, Buffalo) do we get the political shenanigans. But Chicago (which has strict guns laws) is set to surpass 1000 gun related homicides this year. Some like to blame the guns on Indiana (I guess cause it’s a red state)… but I posted a link in this thread that the guns are mostly illegal and come from all over the world… not Indiana.

How come there’s no talk about cleaning up Chicago and getting the illegal guns off the streets? How does lightfoot get away being being such a terrible mayor? Just cause the peeps of Chicago are dumb enough to vote for her? I mean, I’ve heard from other dems in Chicago just blast her… but do people like how she is slowly killing the city of Chicago ?

We keep hearing about “weapons of war” but as educated Rs in congress and many on here have proved many times over… these are not weapons of war

The vast majority of our gun crime is in a handful of cities in this country. No talk of cleaning them up. They dont care about those people.

 

[crossover22[]_[]]

IMO u do in Chicago what they do in Boston. You have religious and other community leaders/people get out into the communities and try to keep as many kids as possible out of gangs. Give them alternatives… like late night sports clubs and the like. U stop the stupid defund the police and u increase the number of HIGHLY TRAINED cops. You allow stop and frisk (which helped clean up NYC with Giuliani).

Concealed carry is a good thing too… cause then the bad guys don’t know whom to mess with… but there are a ton of things I would do first. These were just the first things that came to mind

I think we agree on a ton about this. Stop and frisk did work but i got to be honest. I cant really agree with doing it because i do think its unconstitutional and thats really making it even more of a police state.


Increasing concealed carry absolutely works. Allow law abiding citizens to carry. The criminals dont care about the law and are already carrying.