Mark whipple wasnt really that bad

craval85

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Yes, Ken Dorsey, Dorsey was barely pushing 200# at UM.



LOL, Morris played in 09', He threw 9 INTs.

Whipple's O was @$$ juice.
1.) Dorsey also played with 42 other players who ended up getting drafted, including 17 1st round draft picks. He possessed physical limitations as well, just not as many as Jacory. Dorsey ended up getting drafted, and playing in the NFL, while Jacory ended up in the CFL.

2.) 1st of all 2010 was Morris's freshmen yr, not 09'. Secondly..the only reason he ended up playing that yr, and burning his RS, was due to Jacory sustaining injuries, which only underscores/highlights the pt of him being limited physically.
 

Liberty City El

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We're usually in agreement on most topics, but not in this case.

1.) The narrative that Jacory played in terrible systems doesn't coincide with reality. Whipple in 09' ended up putting together the 2nd best Offensive season in the last 20 yrs, according to the only metrics that really matter. You want proper context? From 09'-13'..MIA never finished lower than 23rd in the S&P+ Offensive rankings-this past yr under the Pastor we were 66th!

2.) You don't have to be a rocket scientist to understand that both Whipple & Fisch are/were elite Offensive minds in the college game. All one would have to do is take a closer look at their resumes to understand that. Both have spent multiple stints in the NFL, and have earned the reputation for knowing how to develop QBs. Whipple is one of the only QB coaches in the history of the NFL to win a SB with a rookie QB, and Fisch single handedly made Josh Rosen into a 1st round draft pick.

I was a fan of Ice or Cardiac, and appreciate what he did for the program, but the bottom line is he was never an NFL caliber QB. There are inherent limitations in being a 6.4", 185 lbs, pure pocket QB, that you are failing to acknowledge. Do you see many of those types of QBs in the NFL? More importantly has a QB with those type of physical tools ever won a NC in college? Both Stephen Morris (who Whipple recruited ), & Kaaya were NFL caliber QBs. If Whipple had either one of those QBs during his tenure, turnovers would've been a non-issue.
I never said that Jacory was a NFL caliber QB, that has nothing to do with my argument. I pointed out that under a better system his turnovers came down & his efficiency improved.

I literally said he wasn't great, the point of my argument was that people make him out to be as bad as Marve, Freeman or Wright & he's not remotely close to that bad.

Being NFL caliber QB has nothing to do with being good in college, a lot of very good college QB's couldn't play a lick in the NFL, but you can still win with them on the college level.

As far as Whipple orchestrating the 2nd best offensive season we had in the last 20 years, well yeah... The bar isn't set that high, Miami has never really been an offensive powerhouse school in comparison to schools like Oklahoma, Oh St, Baylor, Oregon, etc.. We always won due to great run game, great Defense & have explosive playmakers at WR & on Special teams in the return game. We've never had a 4,000yd passer in school history, meanwhile Colt Brennan never had season with less than 4300yds & he was an average QB.

My whole overall point is that Jacory was not as bad as people make him out to be, I'm not arguing he was a national championship/NFL caliber QB either. I'm saying the significant difference in his productivity was a direct result of play calling that understood how to utlize him properly.
 

craval85

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I never said that Jacory was a NFL caliber QB, that has nothing to do with my argument. I pointed out that under a better system his turnovers came down & his efficiency improved.

I literally said he wasn't great, the point of my argument was that people make him out to be as bad as Marve, Freeman or Wright & he's not remotely close to that bad.

Being NFL caliber QB has nothing to do with being good in college, a lot of very good college QB's couldn't play a lick in the NFL, but you can still win with them on the college level.

As far as Whipple orchestrating the 2nd best offensive season we had in the last 20 years, well yeah... The bar isn't set that high, Miami has never really been an offensive powerhouse school in comparison to schools like Oklahoma, Oh St, Baylor, Oregon, etc.. We always won due to great run game, great Defense & have explosive playmakers at WR & on Special teams in the return game. We've never had a 4,000yd passer in school history, meanwhile Colt Brennan never had season with less than 4300yds & he was an average QB.

My whole overall point is that Jacory was not as bad as people make him out to be, I'm not arguing he was a national championship/NFL caliber QB either. I'm saying the significant difference in his productivity was a direct result of play calling that understood how to utlize him properly.
So what you're insinuating is..the expectation that MIA should at the very minimum have on it's roster NFL caliber QBs is actually setting the bar too high-is that correct? Might I remind you..this is @ MIA of all places, a place once known as QB-U! Being an NFL caliber QB is also relevant from the standpoint that both Whipple & Fisch are NFL caliber coaches, that deploy NFL based systems. Finally, you said that being an NFL caliber QB has nothing to do with being good in college, but can you name some good college QBs that didn't at the very least get drafted, or sign free agent deals? Colt Brennan at least ended up getting drafted.

I agree that MIA historically has not been an Offensive powerhouse school. However during our championship seasons, we have had elite Offenses. In 01' we had the 3rd best Offense in the country, and in 09' we ranked 7th. Comparatively speaking it appears as though, with better personnel, Whipple had the potential to be a championship caliber OC. I don't think you quite understand how big of an accomplishment it is for Whipple to field the 7th best Offense in the country, when prior to him arriving @ MIA we ranked 59th. All this with a QB that never played in the NFL, and a HC that never received another job. What he was able to achieve in 09' is almost a borderline miracle, and should not be easily dismissed.

To reiterate, as I mentioned in my previous posts, the reasons why Jacory became more efficient under Fisch, was due to a more conservative approach, better personnel around him, and him being a Sr. With that said, the improvements were only marginal, and not significant, particularly his INT % per attempt. Regardless though his best season was still in 09' under Whipple.

I think making the argument that Jacory was a better QB than Mavre, Freeman, & Wright is more reasonable, than trying to make the case that Whipple was not an elite OC. Despite the overwhelming evidence that I've put forth in this thread, if there is still any doubt as to whether or not Whipple is an elite Offensive mind, it will all be erased, after MIA plays Pitt later this yr. After that game, it will be made abundantly clear that in this profession, Whipple is indeed a MADE-MAN.
 
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Trill

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So what you're insinuating is..the expectation that MIA should at the very minimum have on it's roster NFL caliber QBs is actually setting the bar too high-is that correct? Might I remind you..this is @ MIA of all places, a place once known as QB-U! Being an NFL caliber QB is also relevant from the standpoint that both Whipple & Fisch are both NFL caliber coaches, that deploy NFL based systems. Finally, you said that being an NFL caliber QB has nothing to do with being good in college, but can you name some good college QBs that didn't at the very least get drafted, or sign free agent deals? Colt Brennan ended up getting drafted.

I agree that MIA historically has not been an Offensive powerhouse school. However during our championship seasons, we have had elite Offenses. In 01' we had the 3rd best Offense in the country, and in 09' we ranked 7th. Comparatively speaking it appears as though, with better personnel, Whipple had the potential to be a championship caliber OC. I don't think you quite understand how big of an accomplishment it is for Whipple to field the 7th best Offense in the country, when prior to him arriving @ MIA we ranked 59th. All this with a QB that never played in the NFL, and a HC that never received another job. What he was able to achieve in 09' is almost a borderline miracle, and should not be easily dismissed.

To reiterate, as I mentioned in my previous posts, the reasons why Jacory became more efficient under Fisch, was due to a more conservative approach, better personnel around him, and him being a Sr. With that said, the improvements were marginal not significant, especially his INT % per attempt. Also overall his best season was was still in 09', under Whipple.

I think making the argument that Jacory was a better QB than Mavre, Freeman, & Wright is more reasonable, than trying to make the case that Whipple was not an elite OC. Despite the overwhelming evidence that I've put forth in this thread, if there is still any doubt as to whether or not Whipple is an elite Offensive mind, it will all be erased, after MIA plays Pitt later this yr. After that game, it will be made abundantly clear that in this profession, Whipple is indeed a MADE-MAN.
I don’t think we lose to Pitt and regardless of the showing that Whipple’s offense has, it doesn’t mean that he didn’t stink up the joint a decade ago.

He was the QB coach for Big Ben from 04-06 right? Ben got progressively worse from his rookie season (04) to his third season (06) capped by throwing 18 TDs to 23 INTs.

This guy always seems to get QBs that throw picks despite his consistent urging to throw it to their own team.

Ben was better as a rookie... Keep Whirlpool at Pitt. Record number of appearances for the TO Chain the day after Thanksgiving.
 
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2.) 1st of all 2010 was Morris's freshmen yr, not 09'. Secondly..the only reason he ended up playing that yr, and burning his RS, was due to Jacory sustaining injuries, which only underscores/highlights the pt of him being limited physically.
None of that matters...Morris' 9 picks reinforces my point that Whipple's O was garbage, and totally refutes your notion that a strong arm QB would've thrown less picks.

Kaaya had physical shortcomings, and He only threw 24 picks in His career.
 

bshaw28

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With Jacory - I think both points regarding the OC and INT's are correct.

Jacory had a better Completion % and threw INT's at a lower rate under both Nix & Fisch compared to Whipple.

But he was an interception prone QB, and while a good coordinator could make that better and more efficient, no coordinator was going to fix it. He was interception prone under all 3 coordinators.

The problem was Jacory put so much air under his passes. I used to call them arm punts. They just hung up there for so long.

It was a nice catchable ball that receivers could run under and adjust to, and it looked beautiful when it worked. Problem was - it was also a nice catchable ball for DB's to run under and adjust to, and made it very easy for DB's to make a play on the ball.
 

ddann

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The problem was Jacory put so much air under his passes. I used to call them arm punts. They just hung up there for so long.

It was a nice catchable ball that receivers could run under and adjust to, and it looked beautiful when it worked. Problem was - it was also a nice catchable ball for DB's to run under and adjust to, and made it very easy for DB's to make a play on the ball.
This is just the plain truth about Jacory right here.
 

craval85

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I don’t think we lose to Pitt and regardless of the showing that Whipple’s offense has, it doesn’t mean that he didn’t stink up the joint a decade ago.

He was the QB coach for Big Ben from 04-06 right? Ben got progressively worse from his rookie season (04) to his third season (06) capped by throwing 18 TDs to 23 INTs.

This guy always seems to get QBs that throw picks despite his consistent urging to throw it to their own team.

Ben was better as a rookie... Keep Whirlpool at Pitt. Record number of appearances for the TO Chain the day after Thanksgiving.

You're spreading misinformation, propaganda, & hogwash.

1st yr with Whipple-Ben broke Dan Marino's rookie records for passer rating, completion pct, & wins. He was also rookie of the yr

2nd yr with Whipple-Ben becomes the youngest QB in NFL history to win a SB.

3rd yr with Whipple-Ben during the preseason tries to become Evil Knievel, and thinks that because he won a SB, he now has the ability to perform motorcycle stunts. Needless to say it didn't go well for him, and an emergency appendectomy was required. The season was pretty much lost, even before it began.

Come back to Earth-you're living in an alternate universe.
 
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Trill

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You're spreading misinformation, propaganda, & hogwash.

1st yr with Whipple-Ben broke Dan Marino's rookie records for passer rating, completion pct, & wins. He was also rookie of the yr

2nd yr with Whipple-Ben becomes the youngest QB in NFL history to win a SB.

3rd yr with Whipple-Ben in the off season tries to become Evil Knievel, and thinks that because he won a SB, he now has the ability to perform motorcycle stunts. Needless to say it didn't go well for him that offseason, and an emergency appendectomy was required. The season was pretty much lost, even before it began.

Come back to Earth-you're living in an alternate universe.
Ben regressed between his 1st and 3rd season, even in winning a SB.

Season 1: 295 attempts 66% comp 2600 yards 17 TDs 11 INTs

Season 2: 268 attempts 63% comp 2400 yards 17 TDs 9 INTs SUPERBOWL Stats (9/21 123 yards 0 TDs 2 INTs 23 QB Rating)

Season 3: 469 attempts 60% comp 3500 yards 18 TDs 23 INTs

If he was worse for wear in season 3, why did they almost double his attempts?

And then he made a Pro Bowl the year after Whip left.

Season 4: 404 attempts 65% comp 3200 yards 32 TDs 11 INTs
 

duke4heisman

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So what you're insinuating is..the expectation that MIA should at the very minimum have on it's roster NFL caliber QBs is actually setting the bar too high-is that correct? Might I remind you..this is @ MIA of all places, a place once known as QB-U! Being an NFL caliber QB is also relevant from the standpoint that both Whipple & Fisch are NFL caliber coaches, that deploy NFL based systems. Finally, you said that being an NFL caliber QB has nothing to do with being good in college, but can you name some good college QBs that didn't at the very least get drafted, or sign free agent deals? Colt Brennan at least ended up getting drafted.

I agree that MIA historically has not been an Offensive powerhouse school. However during our championship seasons, we have had elite Offenses. In 01' we had the 3rd best Offense in the country, and in 09' we ranked 7th. Comparatively speaking it appears as though, with better personnel, Whipple had the potential to be a championship caliber OC. I don't think you quite understand how big of an accomplishment it is for Whipple to field the 7th best Offense in the country, when prior to him arriving @ MIA we ranked 59th. All this with a QB that never played in the NFL, and a HC that never received another job. What he was able to achieve in 09' is almost a borderline miracle, and should not be easily dismissed.

To reiterate, as I mentioned in my previous posts, the reasons why Jacory became more efficient under Fisch, was due to a more conservative approach, better personnel around him, and him being a Sr. With that said, the improvements were only marginal, and not significant, particularly his INT % per attempt. Regardless though his best season was still in 09' under Whipple.

I think making the argument that Jacory was a better QB than Mavre, Freeman, & Wright is more reasonable, than trying to make the case that Whipple was not an elite OC. Despite the overwhelming evidence that I've put forth in this thread, if there is still any doubt as to whether or not Whipple is an elite Offensive mind, it will all be erased, after MIA plays Pitt later this yr. After that game, it will be made abundantly clear that in this profession, Whipple is indeed a MADE-MAN.
Dude Whipple was trash and Jacory was WAYYYYYYY better under Fisch. You can pull up all the stats you want, from wherever you want but Jacory was a completely different QB as soon as Fisch arrived.
 

JD08

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It's kind of funny how OP's original statement that 2009 could've been great compares with those saying we need a tougher schedule. That year the only unranked team we faced was FSU in the opener and we went 9-4.
 

Tee3000

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44 INTs amongst 57 TOs in His only 2 years as OC...yeah, He would've been a great one.

LOL, even Nix wasn't that bad...Whipple was the worse OC to ever come though UM.

For the life of me I don't understand why this bozo's name keeps getting brought up 9 years after His dreadful tenure.
You just outed yourself as not having watched hurricane football.

Whipple was handcuffed with Shannon’s messiah known Jafloaty Harris. Harris was so bad that the crowd would collectively hold their breath when he threw a ball bc he was fucking terrible.
 

Tee3000

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Dude Whipple was trash and Jacory was WAYYYYYYY better under Fisch. You can pull up all the stats you want, from wherever you want but Jacory was a completely different QB as soon as Fisch arrived.
He was still trash...his sorry a$$ was gun shy from throwing all those picks years earlier.
 

Tee3000

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With Jacory - I think both points regarding the OC and INT's are correct.

Jacory had a better Completion % and threw INT's at a lower rate under both Nix & Fisch compared to Whipple.

But he was an interception prone QB, and while a good coordinator could make that better and more efficient, no coordinator was going to fix it. He was interception prone under all 3 coordinators.

The problem was Jacory put so much air under his passes. I used to call them arm punts. They just hung up there for so long.

It was a nice catchable ball that receivers could run under and adjust to, and it looked beautiful when it worked. Problem was - it was also a nice catchable ball for DB's to run under and adjust to, and made it very easy for DB's to make a play on the ball.
Great post..the OC’s didn’t matter bc Harris was pure TRASH! The absolute worst!
 
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Whipple was handcuffed with Shannon’s messiah known Jafloaty Harris. Harris was so bad that the crowd would collectively hold their breath when he threw a ball bc he was fucking terrible.
Never said Jacory was elite.

Whipple's O had more turnovers in 1 year (36 in 2010), than Fisch's O in 2 years (34 in 11' & 12').

Whipple was no better than Nix.
 
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