Making the pieces fit on DL

[Katzenboyer]

If they are strong enough it wont matter. Mesidor was playing NT. Plus you have felxibility to change the front at random and confuse the blocking. We still have 91 and Haye who can just stay one place. Thats if they can get better and smarter. If we can get the big guy from Maryland we should be ok. We will need Kelly, Jahfari, Chantz etc to become better pass rushers. They might get more space with multiple players able to bring pressure from the inside. No better person to learn pass rushing moves from than JT

Mesidor playing DT in the pass-happy Big 12 is a lot different when he's facing ACC/SEC fronts.

 

[Katzenboyer]

We still need a 320+ type to plug in to avoid teams running down our throats. We are small everywhere on the defensive line including our ends. Think a nose that can play like 15-30 snaps a game would be ideal, mainly 1st down and obvious running situations.

This. I'd also add we're small everywhere in the front 7.

 

[Ziggy]

This. I'd also add we're small everywhere in the front 7.

Agreed. I think we have some nice guys who have some pass rush ability and play making skills but we lack size and that scares me. Lot of tweener and small body types in the front 7. We just need 1 guy who can play first down, goal line, short yardage, etc. Doesn't have to be a stud but a guy who can just take on double teams.

 

[San Amaro Dr]

An influx of transfers has remade our defensive front. Now, we have an abundance of guys with similar body types- long, lean for a DT, built more like a 3-4 DE. They average out to 6'4, 272 and all fit into that general profile:

Jared Harrison-Hunte- 6'4, 285
Jake Lichtenstein- 6'5, 270
Antonio Moultrie- 6'4, 260
Akheem Mesidor- 6'2, 272
Elijah Roberts- 6'4, 275

Leonard Taylor is a little stouter (6'3, 305) but still far from a nose tackle. So how do we make all of these pieces fit in a four-man front? On one hand, length and athleticism is always good and Steele did wonders with a similar body type in Marlon Davidson. But it is still a unique situation when you are lacking a true nose and are thin at EDGE.

Curious to hear any thoughts from others on how we should deploy this group.

@Coach Macho @WestEndzone @San Amaro Dr @Liberty City El @gogeta4 @LuCane @gcane44 @Lance Roffers

Luckily for us, Kevin Steele has experience with these jumbo DE types. I would assume Lich, Moultrie and hunte play exclusively inside and as for Mesidor, Roberts and the rest of the full time DE's we will so a good amount of rotation.

What will be interesting to see is who is in the game when Steele moves into odd fronts. Do you stand Harvey and Ajude up with Roberts, Lich down? Do you move Mesidor to the nose in that package as he played it at WVU? The big misconception with odd fronts on this board is having a giant NT. You don't need to be a giant, you need to be disruptive.

I totally agree with the above poster on slanting, line stunts up front. They can be a nightmare at times. Reminds me of something I saw at Belen....haha

 

[Memnon]

WDE - Mitchell Agude/Jahfari Harvey/ Thomas Davis/ Cyrus Moss/
1T - Jordan Miller/ Jared Harrison-Hunte/ Allan Haye Jr/ Ahmad Moten
3T - Jake Lichtenstein/ Leonard Taylor/ Antonio Moultrie/ Elijah Roberts
SDE - Akheem Mesidor/ Elijah Roberts/ Chantz Williams/ Jabari Ishmael/ Nyjalik Kelly

The only true NT type we have is Jordan Miller, but he’s not a 3 down DT.

Mesidor, Roberts & Moultrie are all essentially Hybrid 3Tech or 4Tech style guys that could play DE as well.

This gives us versatility in our DL rotations & sub-packages for the 3rd down & Blitzes etc, but it also makes the line a little more chaotic just due to the fact we really only have one 0/1-Tech & like five or six 3-Techs lol.

I’m most interested in where they decide to play Roberts, because he can play both Strongside & 4Tech & with Lichthenstein & Moultrie both being DT’s it kinda clogs up that spot, or at least it creates the opportunity to have a heavy rotation with about 4 guys all splitting reps at the same position.

Since the day we landed Moultrie I for sure thought he was playing DE here, but they plan on using him at DT, so that’s what has made their potential lineups very interesting depending on how many they plan on playing.

Plus, imagine how much crazier it will get if they double back & pickup DJ Coleman & then Dorlus finally hits the portal, although that seems less likely by the day.

But either way, I think they’ve done a very good job addressing the front 4 issue we had this offseason & while the interior DLine might still be somewhat undersized, I think they’ve put together a formidable pass rushing front 4 with good depth. It will boil down to how the incumbents like Harvey, Taylor, Roberts, Chantz etc, steps up when their numbers get called, because otherwise the staff has essentially brought in an entire new starting Front 4.

 

[JHallCanes]

I feel like we will still try to add a true edge if a difference-maker becomes available in the portal.

If we can get more stout in the middle we could also use Mesidor on the edge. He was great there as a freshman

His versatility definitely helps

 

[Canemang]

An influx of transfers has remade our defensive front. Now, we have an abundance of guys with similar body types- long, lean for a DT, built more like a 3-4 DE. They average out to 6'4, 272 and all fit into that general profile:

Jared Harrison-Hunte- 6'4, 285
Jake Lichtenstein- 6'5, 270
Antonio Moultrie- 6'4, 260
Akheem Mesidor- 6'2, 272
Elijah Roberts- 6'4, 275

Leonard Taylor is a little stouter (6'3, 305) but still far from a nose tackle. So how do we make all of these pieces fit in a four-man front? On one hand, length and athleticism is always good and Steele did wonders with a similar body type in Marlon Davidson. But it is still a unique situation when you are lacking a true nose and are thin at EDGE.

Curious to hear any thoughts from others on how we should deploy this group.

@Coach Macho @WestEndzone @San Amaro Dr @Liberty City El @gogeta4 @LuCane @gcane44 @Lance Roffers

Is Haye not an option? Feel has the size just, and by some reports seemed to flash a bit in Spring.

 

[Canesfan1899]

If we can get more stout in the middle we could also use Mesidor on the edge. He was great there as a freshman

His versatility definitely helps

Absolutely and with what you said we would probably add a plus-size DT as well if the right guy hits the portal.

 

[JHallCanes]

Absolutely and with what you said we would probably add a plus-size DT as well if the right guy hits the portal.

Yeah those types of actual impact guys are tough to find and when one becomes available, everyone needs it, so it gets tricky

 

[canesd]

This is my 2 deep...I think we can hold up well against the run given the size at End despite not having multiple pluggers.

DE - Mesidor
DT - Taylor
DT - Harrison-Hunte
DE - Agude

DE - Harvey
DT - Lichtenstein/Miller
DT- Roberts
DE - Multrie/C. Williams

 

[canesd]

If you line up 4 dudes at 6'4 270-280, you will hold up.

 

[LuCane]

Luckily for us, Kevin Steele has experience with these jumbo DE types. I would assume Lich, Moultrie and hunte play exclusively inside and as for Mesidor, Roberts and the rest of the full time DE's we will so a good amount of rotation.

What will be interesting to see is who is in the game when Steele moves into odd fronts. Do you stand Harvey and Ajude up with Roberts, Lich down? Do you move Mesidor to the nose in that package as he played it at WVU? The big misconception with odd fronts on this board is having a giant NT. You don't need to be a giant, you need to be disruptive.

I totally agree with the above poster on slanting, line stunts up front. They can be a nightmare at times. Reminds me of something I saw at Belen....haha

Ha. 5-2 front, though.

 

[sstcane]

What about trying Anez Cooper at NT? That boy is a beast and has the size we need.

 

[Gi0logy]

If there were an elephant in the room, we wouldn't be discussing this.

Low key candidate for post of the year.

 

[305407cane]

A small DL and poor linebacker play is a bad combo

 

[grover]

I would need to see what our guys are good at to give a complete answer, but first thought would be to mix it up with multiple even fronts and line movements. For the fronts, anything would be fair game: over, under, over (g), double eagle, double g, over with a 9 tech, etc.

You have the option to run 1, 2, 3 or 4 man movements. In an even front, I have the most experience with 2 and 4 man movements where you're moving both DT's or you're moving the whole line towards or away from the front strength. They're safe enough to run on base downs and are generally good against the run. The goal is to create a mess by messing with blocking assignments. Usually you only ever want to move from one technique to the next--never two techniques over unless you're backing it up with overload pressure from the backer and/or secondary. For example, a pinching 3 tech would cross face of his guard, but a pinching 2i would remain in the A gap, but would then be playing the hip of the center instead of the guard.

A versatile 3 man stunt that can be run in a number of situations is the old pirate stunt the Bucs used with Warren Sapp. Out of an Over (g) look, your SDE 5 tech and 3 tech pinch one technique over (cross face), while the 2i pinches down to a 1 tech and plays the run if he finds pressure--if he reads pass, he loops around the pinching SDE and DT to replace the vacated strong side C gap--the cross face 3 tech would in theory cover up the vacated weak side A with his angle. You need guys that can move for this to work well.

Obviously you can also pinch or twist guys--but those are more specialized down movements like short yardage or passing situations. We would usually have specialized personnel to match those situations.

WEZ, My head is spinning here. I was never a coach and it's been 35 years since I played HS ball (not good enough for college). Is there a video out there that gets into these schemes for us amateurs?

 

[grover]

We still need a 320+ type to plug in to avoid teams running down our throats. We are small everywhere on the defensive line including our ends. Think a nose that can play like 15-30 snaps a game would be ideal, mainly 1st down and obvious running situations.

Facts. The problem is the 320+ types who are any good (and aren't total head cases) are unicorns. We have Miller already on roster. He's just not high-ACC level, much less championship level. And looking in the portal, I don't see even one we can confidently say is better than Miller.

 

[supersaiyanshel]

We need to accept the fact that our DL is not going to put up monster numbers this season.

Most of our sacks will be manufactured. I see no game changers on the roster on the front at the moment, unless we put Moss and Kelly out there and let them develop in the fire (which I think they can).

Our outlook and expectation for them as presently constructed should be to contain the run, and honestly, I'm fine with that.

 

[CanesNation26]

Probably cross-train one or two of those guys at DT and DE imo with the goal of using them in both sports depending whether it’s a traditional running down or passing down.

Mesidor seems like candidate A because (1) he’s probably the most talented of that bunch and we want him on the field as much as possible and (2) he’s played a whole CFB season at DE.

Perhaps also put 1 of Roberts/Licht/Moultrie at DE full time. This person would backup Mesidor on running downs/or play opposite of Mesidor on extremely obvious running downs. Would probably ride bench on obvious passing downs. And can assume Mesidor’s role if Mesidor went down with an injury.

Keep Hunte at DT exclusively. That’s where he’s played his whole CFB career and based on your numbers, he’s the biggest of those dudes.

Obvious running down
De- Mesidor
DTs- 2 of JHH/LT/Jordan Miller
De- 1 of Roberts/Licht/Moultrie

Obvious passing down
DE- Harvey/Agude
DTs- 2 of LT/Mesidor/JHH
DE- Our 2nd best edge rusher

Not sure if run/pass
DE- Mesidor
DTs- JHH + LT
DE- Harvey/Agude (our best pass rushing DE)

 

[San Amaro Dr]

Ha. 5-2 front, though.

LOL Nah in the later years they were an even front slanting the 2 inside guys quite a bit as the poster mentioned above. This was Stuart's last year or so.