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Lessons from Jeff Stoutland

This is the question how many clinics and training camps you have at the youth level to train these kids to be great? None to none at all. We have 10 million camps for WR, DB, QB and RB. If we get more camps like for olineman we wouldn't have to leave the state. But teach them from 8 and up not wait until highschool.
 
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I've seen El-Gammal in person on several occasions. I think he's likely a year or two from contributing. He seemed a bit on the underweight side to me. He has a decent, athletic-looking frame and likely could add some good weight, but bottom-line he's a project. We seem to recruit so many project types all across the board who don't materialize. I wish we'd pull more guys ready for their position; but alas, when you don't get first pick of the litter, you have to settle for some of the second-tier guys.
 
AlexCane said:
We seem to recruit so many project types all across the board who don't materialize.
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This is the key point. I have no problem with 2-3 projects a year in a class of 25 with a roster of 80+. 1 will pay off, the other 1-2 will fail and transfer out. No biggie. And we find a Njoku or a Walford every 5 years as our reward.

But Miami should NEVER have an OL class made up of El Gammal, Nelson and Clark, with two transfers in Kennedy, Traore. That is "maybe" FIU/FAU caliber, and I could be insulting those programs by writing this. And to bring in this class when our 75-man roster is already full of JAGS is death knell.

We knew we were screwed at OL last year before we even took our first snap at UF. We were just hoping beyond hope our offensive genius, Dan Enos, would find a way to win in spite of our ACC-worst line.
 
BoxingRobes said:
Only problem with that was we had Boateng BEGGING for an offer all fall.

There were a few other SoFla offensive lineman that went P5 that were still committed-ish elsewhere and went unrecruited by Miami.

Those late takes on the OL were something else.
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I get it. But coaches/recruiters should be allowed to trust their evals and OL you typically don't see it bear fruit until 3rd year in the program. Lets not give Boateng AA honors and the Outland Trophy because he played 4 snaps vs GT, 8 vs Charlotte, 6 vs. BC, and 3 vs. Wofford.
 
MikeCane18 said:
I get it. But coaches/recruiters should be allowed to trust their evals and OL you typically don't see it bear fruit until 3rd year in the program. Lets not give Boateng AA honors and the Outland Trophy because he played 4 snaps vs GT, 8 vs Charlotte, 6 vs. BC, and 3 vs. Wofford.
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Fair.

But...he's a take for CLEMSON...and not Miami?

Tough for me to buy-in on a "trust the evaluation" on a team, coaches and staff(s) that have been so bad at it. I trust my own eyes and the eyes of a few guys on this forum more than most of the coaches we've had in recent memory.
 
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Ethnicsands said:
El-Gammel over Boateng struck me as an awful eval back then and doesn’t look any better today.
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Its not a hard rule for me...because a lot of factors go into where players play...but El Gammal played some slop HS ball and they had him on the right side and often, in his own highlights, was on the help side with a TE next to him...and thats rarely a P5 player, to me.

El Gammal has size, obviously, but even in his own highlights, where he lined up and the plays he presented as splash plays, he looked very jaggy, to me.

It wasn't like Zion Nelson, a questionable take at the time (and even in hindsight is a bit questionable), but you could see a player that played left tackle for his team and they ran to his side a lot and did a lot of things with him, using his athleticism getting him to the second level and taking on linebackers and when he was asked to pass set, held his own in his own highlight video. I could understand Nelson...and buy the "trust the eval" nonsense. El Gammal, I could not...at all.
 
BoxingRobes said:
Fair.

But...he's a take for CLEMSON...and not Miami?

Tough for me to buy-in on a "trust the evaluation" on a team, coaches and staff(s) that have been so bad at it. I trust my own eyes and the eyes of a few guys on this forum more than most of the coaches we've had in recent memory.
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I hear you. And definitely warranted criticism of this staff and previous OL coaches.
 
Nelson will be a real player jus watch yawl criticize him but Coaches felt he was the best option and he was super light lets u know all u need to about the rest of the OL room
 
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KOOLAID4L said:
This is the question how many clinics and training camps you have at the youth level to train these kids to be great? None to none at all. We have 10 million camps for WR, DB, QB and RB. If we get more camps like for olineman we wouldn't have to leave the state. But teach them from 8 and up not wait until highschool.
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Can you teach an 8 year old to be an Olineman?

Can you predict at that age who's going to be 6'2"+ and able to carry around 280lbs+?
 
BoxingRobes said:
Its not a hard rule for me...because a lot of factors go into where players play...but El Gammal played some slop HS ball and they had him on the right side and often, in his own highlights, was on the help side with a TE next to him...and thats rarely a P5 player, to me.

El Gammal has size, obviously, but even in his own highlights, where he lined up and the plays he presented as splash plays, he looked very jaggy, to me.

It wasn't like Zion Nelson, a questionable take at the time (and even in hindsight is a bit questionable), but you could see a player that played left tackle for his team and they ran to his side a lot and did a lot of things with him, using his athleticism getting him to the second level and taking on linebackers and when he was asked to pass set, held his own in his own highlight video. I could understand Nelson...and buy the "trust the eval" nonsense. El Gammal, I could not...at all.
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El Gammel has a wide body, could see him inside at G, don’t see him that explosive, physical, don’t see great feet or body control. Just doesn’t look like a great prospect. Hope I’m wrong. Nelson, you can at least see the traits that if he develops, you can project. Don’t get me wrong, I didn’t claim Boateng was amazing. Just see the potential.
 
MikeCane18 said:
I get it. But coaches/recruiters should be allowed to trust their evals and OL you typically don't see it bear fruit until 3rd year in the program. Lets not give Boateng AA honors and the Outland Trophy because he played 4 snaps vs GT, 8 vs Charlotte, 6 vs. BC, and 3 vs. Wofford.
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The coaches can trust whatever they wamt, and I’m sure they do. This is a discussion board. We don’t owe them trust. And if we criticize them and are right then I guess their trust was misplaced. Maybe the new staff will be better than the prior ones, but we haven’t had many good evaluators the past 2 decades!
 
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OldhamA said:
Can you teach an 8 year old to be an Olineman?

Can you predict at that age who's going to be 6'2"+ and able to carry around 280lbs+?
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Yes you can teach a kid anything. I had kids play oline one yr and qb the next yr. One kid played oline and rb for us. You never know how kids are going to develop you just have to take the ones who you think have potential and work with them.
 
AlexCane said:
I've seen El-Gammal in person on several occasions. I think he's likely a year or two from contributing. He seemed a bit on the underweight side to me. He has a decent, athletic-looking frame and likely could add some good weight, but bottom-line he's a project. We seem to recruit so many project types all across the board who don't materialize. I wish we'd pull more guys ready for their position; but alas, when you don't get first pick of the litter, you have to settle for some of the second-tier guys.
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295 is not underweight. OL have a different body type now
 
Southside Cane said:
295 is not underweight. OL have a different body type now
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No. I bump into many of the players. He is noticeably thinner than many of his counterparts on the offensive and defensive line. (I'd bet the 295 is inflated but whatever.) Remember, this is a basketball player that played 1 year of varsity football. There's a big difference in those "country boys" with thick hips and legs that are naturally 290+ versus the thinner types that add [oftentimes unnatural] weight to get to a certain playing weight. In that regard, numbers lie.

Just for comparison sake, Tito Odenigbo was listed at 300 pounds (2 more than El-Gammal) and those body types were very, very different.

IMO, this is one of the primary reasons why our line play has been largely subpar for years. The ACC routinely puts together good lines. UVA, UNC, etc. always tend to have big boys up front. We've recruited so many 260-270 pound OL and hope that they fill out their frame and settle at 300-310. But there is a strength deficit regardless of what these guys get their weight too.
 
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Southside Cane said:
295 is not underweight. OL have a different body type now
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You make the typical mistake people make in thinking all 295 bodies are alike. Bad assumption and it's part of the reason we're in the mess we're in (square peg/round hole when talking about putting on weight on guys either incorrectly or on body types that are ill suited for all the extra weight). The indicator you're looking for is frame rather than weight - pretty much what @AlexCane is saying
 
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DMoney said:
Our offensive line is bad. And the class is looking shaky. This got me thinking about Jeff Stoutland. He was our OL coach from 2007 to 2010. While at Miami, Stoutland signed five linemen who went on to start games in the NFL. For comparison, Alabama only signed four during the same time period.

Stoutland is now the OL coach for the Philadelphia Eagles, and is considered one of the best in the NFL. I studied his evaluation patterns and learned a couple important things:

City over country: Canes fans love to say that “we need country kids and Midwestern farm boys on the offensive line.” This is wrong. Those kids don’t usually like the city of Miami. It’s not a cultural fit. Stoutland recognized this and focused on city kids. He signed good players from places like Memphis, Omaha and St. Paul. None of the kids he signed were from rural areas.

Build a wall around South Florida: Another myth is that we should not recruit South Florida OL. If you look at the guys who have started for us and gone on to the NFL in this decade, they are usually from South Florida. The busts (Wells, Milo, Gadbois, Dykstra) came from out of state. It is better to get the cream of the crop locally than out-of-state leftovers who are not as easy to evaluate. Stoutland signed 64% of his OL from South Florida.

Culture matters: Stoutland was known as a good recruiter who connected with players. He was also from New York City, which fits in well with the two points above. Searels is a hard-*** country boy from Trion, Georgia. I’ve heard he’s a good guy, but I’ve also heard he has trouble connecting with players. We need a great teacher first and foremost, but it also makes sense to find someone who can connect with city kids.

Stoutland's signees (2007-2010):

Brandon Linder (Broward)
Orlando Franklin (Palm Beach)
Jon Feliciano (Broward)
Seantrel Henderson (St. Paul, MN)
Harland Gunn (Omaha, NE)
Tyler Horn (Memphis, TN)
Brandon Washington (Miami)
Shane McDermott (Palm Beach)
Ben Jones (Miami)
Jermaine Johnson (Broward)
Jared Wheeler (Broward)
Malcolm Bunche (Newark, DE)
Jermaine Barton (Broward)
Cory White (Jacksonville)
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Stoutland was overrated AF & he was another OL coach that rotated OL like a fool.

You’re really giving him credit for signing Harlan Gunn…MARIO CRISTOBAL is responsible for him. Go read his recruiting profile on Canesport…if you got that wrong then you likely got most of it wrong.

We hired Stoutland from the scrap heap when no one wanted him. He was out of work when we hired him. Yeah yeah..Bama hired him right? They hired Panuzzi & sorry a$$ Dan Enos too. Spare me the Bama angle.

He’s in the good ole boys network so he’ll always keep a job but to make him out to be a top NFL OL coach is crazy!
Sacks allowed
2006: 26 (2 pg), ranked 59th (B4 Stoutland)
2007: 25 (2.08 pg) ranked 62nd
2008: 27 (2.08 pg) ranked 71st
2009: 35 (2.69 pg), ranked 100th
2010: 17 (1.31 pg), ranked 24th

Rushing yards per game
2006: 116ypg (3.5 ypc) ranked 84th (B4 Stoutland)
2007: 145 ypg (3.6ypc), ranked 65th
2008: 129 ypg (3.9 ypc), ranked 78th
2009: 138 ypg (3.87 ypc), ranked 70th
2010: 182 ypg (4.8 ypc), ranked 30th
 
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