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Larry Coker was our Head Corch for the best team ever

bestever1991 said:
I was as mad as anyone the Canes didn't play for the NC. That team by the end of 2000 was playing some of the best football I've ever seen the Canes play. But 1 loss and you can't count on getting in. The team we lost to had 1 loss.
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But they were highly ranked...and finished the yr highly ranked...unlike the Miss team that had Tebow crying like a little b*tch...
 
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CFLCane said:
We know how they became 1st round picks. We also know who was there when they became champions.
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They wouldn't have been Champions with Clappy at the helm from 95-2000...not with his Garbage recruiting and evaluations from 01 going foward...once Butchs kids left at the end of 2004 (aside from a couple) everything went downhill......I know, merely a coincidence....
 
I totally agree with Coker's recruiting. What I was thinking about, is was Erickson's recruiting in the last few years really that bad? The 1995 team is a favorite of mine and essentially won the Big East (no H2h tiebreaker in 1995) and would've played in the Orange Bowl over VT against ND if it wasn't for the self imposed bowl ban. The 1996 team was really good and finished 14th.
 
bestever1991 said:
I totally agree with Coker's recruiting. What I was thinking about, is was Erickson's recruiting in the last few years really that bad? The 1995 team is a favorite of mine and essentially won the Big East (no H2h tiebreaker in 1995) and would've played in the Orange Bowl over VT against ND if it wasn't for the self imposed bowl ban. The 1996 team was really good and finished 14th.
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Ericksons OL and QB recruiting were terrible...he was a notorious lazy recruiter....Best kid he left Butch was KC Jones....in 95 we were down 11 schollies right off the bat. @Poopscoop played and started on those mid 90s teams...he'd be the person to talk to...
 
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To me the first warning sign with Coker was the 2001 VT game. This is another game that should've been a comfortable double digit win. It would've been the first time in program history the Canes won every game by double digits.
 
Canesbro31 said:
Golden kept NO D his entire tenure here, it’s almost impossible to top that unless you lose every game. Manny was a terrible hire but he’s not below Golden.
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I don't remember Golden losing to or barely beating FIU type schools. Or constantly being totally unprepared.

Manny has brought us to the deepest depths of futility. WE ARE NOW CAPABLE OF LOSING TO ANYONE! TO ANYONE!! There's never ever been anything like that here .EVER..

SO STOP IT! Stop making excuses for the inexcusable.

This is dumb anyway...arguing about whose sh*t was the worst. The mere fact we're discussing who's the worst ever means Manny has to go.
 
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CanesDynasty said:
1, 2, and 3 were examples of having the best coaches and best players but their results are inconsistent. Please explain to me why Clemson and Oklahoma are struggling.. is it the players or the coaches?

I didn't start this thread to defend Manny, I started it to illustrate that our best team ever won a National Title because the players were special. Yes, Butch recruited them and he hit the Lottery with a lot of them. But the players have a lot to do with winning. If I were a player for Miami and watched the film of how bad we tackled, I would hope that the players found it unacceptable. 100% the coaches can change the way they tackle in practice, but every team needs players that are leaders and hold their teammates accountable.
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Clemson routed Bama in the NC, with TL as a true freshman. The following season they were badly beaten by LSU in the NC. The next season they were thrashes by Ohio State in the CFP. This season they’re struggling and missing a generational QB, and top RB, and probably other starters from previous seasons.

The 2001 Miami team was an all-time great, but still almost lost at BC and at VT.

The point is every team is different season to season, and even game to game.

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Miami teams lacked leaders under Richt and now lack them under Manny. Who would you consider a team leader the past few seasons? Maybe D’Eric King. He seems a consumate professional in preparation, his work ethic. He has limitations as a player but you can see he’s improved the mindset of QB room. Even Perry improved last season, how he almost led a comeback in the bowl game.

There’s no one else like that on this team, at least that I can see.

Why? Manny’s not a leader. You think he inspires 18–21 year olds? You think they respect him? No way. And I‘m not talking about fear, that’s overrated. Butch may have taken no BS from any player but they all respected him. They believed what he told them. A lot of tough love too, I suspect.

These are 18-21 year olds looking for leadership. Growing as players and as men. A roster full of 85 highly self-motivated, elite young athletes with leadership skills would be wonderful but doesn’t happen easily. Each of these young men has to learn to hold themselves accountable before they can hold another to a standard.

Good coaches point them in right directions, and frankly I don’t think that’s Manny.

At most he’s a manipulator, and a poor one at that.
 
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TemplarCane said:
Clemson routed Bama in the NC, with TL as a true freshman. The following season they were badly beaten by LSU in the NC. The next season they were thrashes by Ohio State in the CFP. This season they’re struggling and missing a generational QB, and top RB, and probably other starters from previous seasons.

The 2001 Miami team was an all-time great, but still almost lost at BC and at VT.

The point is every team is different season to season, and even game to game.

*****

Miami teams lacked leaders under Richt and now lack them under Manny. Who would you consider a team leader the past few seasons? Maybe D’Eric King. He seems a consumate professional in preparation, his work ethic. He has limitations as a player but you can see he’s improved the mindset of QB room. Even Perry improved last season, how he almost led a comeback in the bowl game.

There’s no one else like that on this team, at least that I can see.

Why? Manny’s not a leader. You think he inspires 18–21 year olds? You think they respect him? No way. And I‘m not talking about fear, that’s overrated. Butch may have taken no BS from any player but they all respected him. They believed what he told them. A lot of tough love too, I suspect.

These are 18-21 year olds looking for leadership. Growing as players and as men. A roster full of 85 self-motivated, elite young athletes would be wonderful but doesn’t happen easily. Each of these young men has to learn to hold themselves accountable before they can hold another to a standard.

Good coaches point them in right directions, and frankly I don’t think that’s Manny.

At most he’s a manipulator, and a poor one at that.
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I agree with almost everything you're saying, but you didn't answer 1 question.. do you blame the players or the coaches for why Clemson and Oklahoma are struggling this year? Simple question
 
CanesDynasty said:
I agree with almost everything you're saying, but you didn't answer 1 question.. do you blame the players or the coaches for why Clemson and Oklahoma are struggling this year? Simple question
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Neither. Why does anyone need to be blamed?

Every season is a new team and presents new challenges. We’re four games into the season.

And as John McKay (4x NC at USC) once said, “The other team has players and coaches, too.“
 
bestever1991 said:
To me the first warning sign with Coker was the 2001 VT game. This is another game that should've been a comfortable double digit win. It would've been the first time in program history the Canes won every game by double digits.
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To me it was the opener against Penn State. Called off the dawgs up 30-0 at half time. Not saying there was a need to score 70, but when you shut down early the team learns a bad habit.

The same happened at VT, up 20-3 at half and tried to cruise. VT picked up their game and Miami struggled to turn theirs back on.
 
And where was Coker in the 2002 Rutgers game when the refs let the Rutgers defense get away with pass interference and holding on every passing play for the first quarter and a half.
 
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SWFLHurricane said:
So??....UF lost to an unranked Miss team and still played for a NC....matter of fact...all UFs NCs were one loss teams...
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Furthermore, it’s not like Washington team was some slouch; they went 11-1 on the season. We have 3 more mins & we win that game, just had the worst start to the game & time ran out when we pressed them. SMH.
 
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JeddTheFisch said:
2001 was our best roster ever, but not our best team.
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86? I think there were 5 1st rounders starting, counting Irvin and Bennie Blades the following season. All top 10.

Vinny - 1st/Heisman
Zo - 3rd
Jerome - 9th
Bennie - 3rd
Irvin - 10th

And Brian Blades, Winston Moss, and Danny Stubbs were second round picks.
 
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JeddTheFisch said:
1991. They could stop a freight train. And the coaching staff was excellent.
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Yes, 91 had a great defense, but I’d rank 86 ahead of 91. Even with the upset loss to Penn State.

HC Jimmy Johnson in College and NFL HOF. Butch and Wanny were on that staff and went to Dallas, and later became both NFL and College HCs. Pagano and Tubberville were GAs. Pagano was Colts HC, and Tubbs HC at Auburn.

5 first rounder and 4 second round picks in the starting 22. All 5 first rounders in the Top 10. Most had excellent NFL careers, with Zo an injury casualty and Jerome passing in a car accident. Irvin HOF, Jerome may likely have been. Vinny played 21 years.

I‘m counting both Brian Blades and Bret Perriman as starters, although this may not be accurate. Both caught over 500 passes in the league.

IIRC, Bratton was projected a first rounder, before a knee injury in the OB win over OU.
 
TemplarCane said:
Yes, 91 had a great defense, but I’d rank 86 ahead of 91. Even with the upset loss to Penn State.

HC Jimmy Johnson in College and NFL HOF. Butch and Wanny were on that staff and went to Dallas, and later became both NFL and College HCs. Pagano and Tubberville were GAs. Pagano was Colts HC, and Tubbs HC at Auburn.

5 first rounder and 4 second round picks in the starting 22. All 5 first rounders in the Top 10. Most had excellent NFL careers, with Zo an injury casualty and Jerome passing in a car accident. Irvin HOF, Jerome may likely have been. Vinny played 21 years.

I‘m counting both Brian Blades and Bret Perriman as starters, although this may not be accurate. Both caught over 500 passes in the league.

IIRC, Bratton was projected a first rounder, before a knee injury in the OB win over OU.
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You make many a good point, but I'm set in my beliefs.
 
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