King Advanced Stats (from PFF)

[HurikaneMarc]

I never said he sucked. I specifically said I never thought he was a dynamic, elite QB. Not ever…in his 6 year career. Never.

He has major limitations and always had those limitations for 6 years. He’s always missed wide open guys, he’s always had issues seeing the field. He’s always been mediocre throwing the ball, even going back to Houston. He’s a systems QB. Dana Holgerson exposed his deficiencies as a passer that’s why he sat out after a few games and transferred.

Miami fans have hyped him up to be something he’s not and never was. Nobody cranks up the hype machine for mediocre to average players high than Miami fans. Y’all had Tate Martell winning the heisman the moment he transferred when me and a few others were like, “wait…what??!!”

While I agree that Miami fans can overhype some stuff, his being discussed(preseason) as a Heisman candidate along with his appointment to the Davey Obrien watchlist at least confirms that there were others, even professionals who do this for bread and meat who saw something. I'm going to give us a pass on hyping him up.

 

[Cribby]

He does, and he did last year as well.

That is why I posted the stats for >2.5 seconds (that is the metric PFF uses... you can either search by more than 2.5 sec, or less than 2.5 sec).

As I have previously posted, I don't really blame King for the Bama game - guys like Will Anderson were blowing past our OLmen to the point where it would almost be an indictment on King if his 1st read wasn't open, and he held the ball for an extra second. He would've gotten hit very hard and probably coughed it up a few more times. I get it.

Vs App State, I don't get it. In my opinion, the OL is decent in pass protection. (I use the term "decent" lightly, because I am really just comparing it to our run blocking, which is absolutely awful... Miami OL couldn't get a push vs the much lighter App State DL. This is also why I find it laughable that ppl are saying Zion is a top 10 pick... he is an above-average ACC LT in pass protection, but he is an average to below-average ACC LT in run blocking. He is weak at the point of attack.)

But the pass protection vs App St was good enough, and King just doesn't keep his eyes downfield. In fact, I think that this is the thing that ultimately separates him from guys like Bryce Young. It has been said many times that King is an athlete playing QB... and I think it shows when looking at these stats.

A true "QB," like B Young, pretty much always has his eyes downfield, looking to extend the play by moving the pocket, but ultimately looking to get the ball to the WR weapons. I think that is the issue with King this year - he is not the same guy running the ball he was LY (understandably), but he is also still prone to tucking it and taking off. The numbers in my OP show as much.

This has allowed teams to stack the box even more than they would have after seeing the Clemson tape. App doesn't have the same caliber athletes on the outside that Clemson/Bama does... we should've been waiting for those 1-on-1 matchups to throw 50/50 balls. But we didn't.

Moving forward, what is going to change? If App can stack the box and make us beat them outside 1-on-1, what team on our schedule can't (besides the D-IIIIII team)?

This is why I posted in another thread that, on Saturday morning, it would've been crazy to think about benching King. But today... I will give him another game, but if King can't throw the ball 15+ yards downfield on a regular basis, he is handicapping the offense and he needs to sit. And I truly believe that.

You’re preaching to the choir. I’ve been posting this for a year , he causes sacks and goes through reads slow. He also runs when having a good pocket with no rush, then will get tackled by a dl who’s still trying to get off a block. There’s no need to leave , which then makes the ol look bad.

Lets be real , we saw a completely different offense with Kosi came in against OSU. he was gripping it and ripping it. Finding guys wide open. Nobody thinks he’s better than King, because kings legs make up for a lot. But king as a passer and Lashlee as a play caller has obviously shown something on tape. Their performances seem to be getting worse as their time goes on. If that’s the case I hope Lashlee is like any other coach , scouting yourself is the most important scouting you’ll do.

 

[scrantoncane]

You’re preaching to the choir. I’ve been posting this for a year , he causes sacks and goes through reads slow. He also runs when having a good pocket with no rush, then will get tackled by a dl who’s still trying to get off a block. There’s no need to leave , which then makes the ol look bad.

Lets be real , we saw a completely different offense with Kosi came in against OSU. he was gripping it and ripping it. Finding guys wide open. Nobody thinks he’s better than King, because kings legs make up for a lot. But king as a passer and Lashlee as a play caller has obviously shown something on tape. Their performances seem to be getting worse as their time goes on. If that’s the case I hope Lashlee is like any other coach , scouting yourself is the most important scouting you’ll do.

I didn't mean to preach to the choir or whatever, I just used your post as my one to quote reply. But, yes, I agree with everything you said and have been saying. In fact, I was late to the party.

But also yes, what we are seeing now is not what we saw LY. After the OP in this thread, someone asked me to post LY numbers, which I did.

I haven't done this research, but I wonder what the numbers are AFTER the Clemson game. That's when the blueprint on King got broadcast to the (CFB) world.
That is where we are right now - Brent V showed the blueprint, and Manny/Lashlee have not done ONE THING to even threaten that we might expose them if they cheat this way, etc... The same blueprint/gameplan Clemson used is the same one I would use this coming weekend. And i would continue to use it unless and until Manny/Lashllee switched something up. They haven't yet, despite several losses, so let's make them adjust (and show they can) before we try something totally different than what the last team showed. (Just wait for the Manny presser where he says "We didn't see that on film all year, they surprised us with that one.)

Again, I am going stream of conciousness and I am also disgusted at this team. So, to all posters/readers, kindly excuse anything that may be interpreted as a slight against the poster, the fan base, etc. Right now, I blame the (1) coaches, and ... (45899) the players.

 

[NE Canes]

Lashlee ran the exact same offense at SMU. The only difference seems to be at SMU he had a QB that knew how to make the reads. I have never seen a QB make the incorrect read almost every single time like King.

Lashlee can't change because he does not know anything else. He needs to dump the RPO as long as king is QB and just let him sit in shotgun and throw. King actually does better without the RPO.

 

[scrantoncane]

Lashlee ran the exact same offense at SMU. The only difference seems to be at SMU he had a QB that knew how to make the reads. I have never seen a QB make the incorrect read almost every single time like King.

Lashlee can't change because he does not know anything else. He needs to dump the RPO as long as king is QB and just let him sit in shotgun and throw. King actually does better without the RPO.

I have not studied any film at all from Lashlee's stint at SMU, so take that as a caveat. However, I have watched games and highlights, & the eyeball test has gotten sharper every year since I've been ~12. I rely on it at times. And my eyeball test tells me the Miami Offense is nothing like the SMU offense. Not even close.

I could be mistaken because I didn't even google it before this post, but the SMU offense when Lashlee was there was mostly vertical, air raid stuff. That was not an RPO offense. And to all the ppl who say that King tucking and running is not a part of RPO... you are wrong, and have been wrong for many years. It is a 3 option read (handoff to RB, pass to WR(s), QB keeper), and teams that don't have a running QB are handicapped. King not running doesn't mean the other options aren't there (although why run them if the threat of King taking off isn't there, idk?). I'm sure Macho or someone else will come in here flexing some HS football knowledge that proves me wrong, but it is the daytime and I'm on my 3rd margarita and I don't really care anymore.

Here is what my main point is (which is likely totally unrelated to anything i posted above):

--

IF YOU ARE GOING TO TROT OUT KING (OR ANY "ATHLETE") AT QB, THEN YOU NEED TO TAILOR THE OFFENSE AROUND HIM.



How can I blame King? How can King even get a fair shake as far as downfield passes, when he has no time at all because from previous game, the opponent stacks the box and dares us to beat them? The element of surprise is a basic necessity to the success of a QB.

My OP showed, without any question, that this offense is not taking shots downfield. My theory, if you can even call it that, is that if you don't at least take a few, then you are doomed. I think most posters I am speaking to can fill in the blanks here, as I obviously didn't finish my thought.

 

[NE Canes]

I have not studied any film at all from Lashlee's stint at SMU, so take that as a caveat. However, I have watched games and highlights, & the eyeball test has gotten sharper every year since I've been ~12. I rely on it at times. And my eyeball test tells me the Miami Offense is nothing like the SMU offense. Not even close.

I could be mistaken because I didn't even google it before this post, but the SMU offense when Lashlee was there was mostly vertical, air raid stuff. That was not an RPO offense. And to all the ppl who say that King tucking and running is not a part of RPO... you are wrong, and have been wrong for many years. It is a 3 option read (handoff to RB, pass to WR(s), QB keeper), and teams that don't have a running QB are handicapped. King not running doesn't mean the other options aren't there (although why run them if the threat of King taking off isn't there, idk?). I'm sure Macho or someone else will come in here flexing some HS football knowledge that proves me wrong, but it is the daytime and I'm on my 3rd margarita and I don't really care anymore.

Here is what my main point is (which is likely totally unrelated to anything i posted above):

--

IF YOU ARE GOING TO TROT OUT KING (OR ANY "ATHLETE") AT QB, THEN YOU NEED TO TAILOR THE OFFENSE AROUND HIM.



How can I blame King? How can King even get a fair shake as far as downfield passes, when he has no time at all because from previous game, the opponent stacks the box and dares us to beat them? The element of surprise is a basic necessity to the success of a QB.

My OP showed, without any question, that this offense is not taking shots downfield. My theory, if you can even call it that, is that if you don't at least take a few, then you are doomed. I think most posters I am speaking to can fill in the blanks here, as I obviously didn't finish my thought.

Watch the full games on Youtube. He ran the same RPO, same running play just as much. It just worked better there becasue the QB would throw more. I think people would be surprised just how much SMU ran the ball...even on 3rd downs. Should have seen this coming.

But you are right. The offenses do not look the same but it is becasue one guy can't run it. The SMU QB didn't sack himself....made better reads...more accurate passes and probably had better WRs.

 

[clg003]

Yeah I am not totally convinced its King... to me it makes as much sense to think that since our OL sucks so bad that he doesnt trust them. What QB wouldnt be gun shy behind these guys...

Its also amazing to me that people on this site still don't get that our OL is atrocious. How we could watch those games last year and when we needed to run against middle of the pack ACC teams we could not. Our entire running game was off of scrambles or a few big breakers and literally no consistency whatsoever. The only way we can run is if we fool the other team. Its like every year people believe our OL is something its not. Cam sucks now DKing sucks.... all this painful game of deflection and some weird refusal to recognize that we have one of the worst OL units in the ACC again. Which shouldnt be a surprise because they have never been good and here is a news flash... they never will be good either.

 

[CaneThang2020]

His feel in the pocket has definitely regressed. He constantly looks panicked instead of just stepping into the throw. You’d think coming off acl injury his running would be diminished, not his passing ability. It makes no sense.

Mentally he's not recovered yet. Came back too soon. QB is different than other positions, already Mentally challenging enough as it is, now he's got to trust his protection and trust that his knee will hold up if he's blindsided etc. Lashlee/Diaz might have to do the unthinkable and pull him if he doesn't improve. Michigan State game is do or die for King. If he puts up a stinker and Diaz/Lashlee keep him as QB1, they'll lose the locker room for sure...have to do what's best for the team and play who gives us the best chance to win. Idk if it's Jake or TVD but if OPs numbers/stats hold up for Game 3, it's definitely time for a change. 2021 season and 2022 recruiting class depends on it.

 

[CaneThang2020]

Watch the full games on Youtube. He ran the same RPO, same running play just as much. It just worked better there becasue the QB would throw more. I think people would be surprised just how much SMU ran the ball...even on 3rd downs. Should have seen this coming.

But you are right. The offenses do not look the same but it is becasue one guy can't run it. The SMU QB didn't sack himself....made better reads...more accurate passes and probably had better WRs.

Agree with all you said...except SMU did not have better WRs, they had a kid at QB that was once rated a 5* QB in Texas. IMO Nick Marshall compares better to JBrown than DKing.

 

[firstandcanes]

His pocket presence against App St was awful, worst I've seen him be. I'm ok with be marginal since he's a great at scrambling.

Of even bigger concern is some of the passes he missed were easy quick out that were no where near the target. Already teams don't respect our passing game and it will get worse until proven otherwise.

 

[NE Canes]

Agree with all you said...except SMU did not have better WRs, they had a kid at QB that was once rated a 5* QB in Texas. IMO Nick Marshall compares better to JBrown than DKing.

Well, you are probably right but about the WRs. But that kid Porche seemed to catch everything.

 

[The Svengali]

King is a 24 year old 6th year QB. Say that out loud and let it sink in. King is a 24 year old 6th year QB!

If he is showing you this as a QB as a SIXTH year guy in CFB, then you’re seeing all you need to see. He’s a fully grown 24 year old man with 6 years experience, playing against 18-19 year old kids in many instances, yet he struggles. This is CFB not the NFL and the opponent was App St - what more do you all need to see???

This is who King is, and I’ve been saying all this looooooong before the season started, to slow down the hype train (Heisman talk, etc) because he’s always looked this way.

You’ve got to at the very least get in TVD and/or García into the games to get meaningful 1st half snaps to see what they can do. I’m convinced the offense will look very, very different.

 

[Hurricane4lyfe]

King is also the only P5 qb to play Bama. Let this play out a couple of weeks then revisit.

No he is what he is a panic mode quarterback in a trashlee offense

 

[Hurricane4lyfe]

And when are we gonna start benching these bone headed players constantly making mistakes onfield???

 

[Cribby]

Yeah I am not totally convinced its King... to me it makes as much sense to think that since our OL sucks so bad that he doesnt trust them. What QB wouldnt be gun shy behind these guys...

Its also amazing to me that people on this site still don't get that our OL is atrocious. How we could watch those games last year and when we needed to run against middle of the pack ACC teams we could not. Our entire running game was off of scrambles or a few big breakers and literally no consistency whatsoever. The only way we can run is if we fool the other team. Its like every year people believe our OL is something its not. Cam sucks now DKing sucks.... all this painful game of deflection and some weird refusal to recognize that we have one of the worst OL units in the ACC again. Which shouldnt be a surprise because they have never been good and here is a news flash... they never will be good either.

It's never one thing. It's Laslee , King and the ol. Laslee was with Dykes at Smu ands it's starting to look like Dykes had a part in that o. I mean they kept right on pumping after Laslee.

I want to sit back and see if Lashlee makes any adjustments or will keep running the same bs that isn't a fit with the qb.

 

[paksat]

It's never one thing. It's Laslee , King and the ol. Laslee was with Dykes at Smu ands it's starting to look like Dykes had a part in that o. I mean they kept right on pumping after Laslee.

I want to sit back and see if Lashlee makes any adjustments or will keep running the same bs that isn't a fit with the qb.

you won't see any change until you see king get benched

all the change you wanted to see has already been broadcasted in a game last season vs osu with a different qb and a humming offense.

 

[Cribby]

you won't see any change until you see king get benched

all the change you wanted to see has already been broadcasted in a game last season vs osu with a different qb and a humming offense.

True but don’t take too much from that because the defense didn’t prepare for Kosi. Nobody saw that coming , like anything the truth is in the middle. There’s a lot of issues my point is it’s not one thing. People here live king and don‘t want to put blame on him, yet they give him all the credit when everything is good.

Fact is Lashlee has gotten worse as his time increases , that normally means people might have caught on to him some. Also the ol has bad moments.

No matter the qb they all have to be in the same page. I mean Garcia or Tvd behind this ol could be a mess too.

There’s only a couple guys in the offense that’s been good so far.

 

[coffeecane]

No he is what he is a panic mode quarterback in a trashlee offense

He is and I agree. However I have seen him win some games for us. I also give him an early pass for the first couple games since acl surgery 9 months ago, and also play Bama to open. It's up to lashlee to put him in best position to succeed or make a qb change if he can't.

 

[BigWindyCane1]

Kosi Perry 2021

CMP	ATT	CMP%	YDS	AVG	TD	INT	LNG	RTG
38	60	63.3	593	9.9	5	0	50	173.9

D’Eriq King 2021

CMP	ATT	CMP%	YDS	AVG	TD	INT	LNG	RTG
43	63	68.3	379	6.0	1	2	36	117.7

IJS

 

[clg003]

It's never one thing. It's Laslee , King and the ol. Laslee was with Dykes at Smu ands it's starting to look like Dykes had a part in that o. I mean they kept right on pumping after Laslee.

I want to sit back and see if Lashlee makes any adjustments or will keep running the same bs that isn't a fit with the qb.

I agree Lashlee is suspect as ****. 5 straight runs doesn't make sense and my neighbors probably contemplated having to call the police after that happened.

But if we are talking about King's staying in the pocket stats, ima say I get it... his pockets break down like a Pontiac Fiero. I would prefer to see more designed plays with him leaving the pocket and quick strikes over the middle.