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King Advanced Stats (from PFF)

mirvin88 said:
Rightfully so? If we can't get the passing game going he needs to be benched.
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We don't hold guys accountable for missing blocks, tackles, etc... Why start with King? Fwiw you are right IMO.. but I just think we have bigger problems to address.
 
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The Svengali said:
He’s the same player he’s always been. This is how he’s always looked to me. You guys for whatever reason hyped him up to be something he’s not
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This. No one has ever questioned his work ethic. He's 9 months removed from a major knee injury and a marginal passer to begin with. The rust that comes with missing spring coupled with the lack of comfortability with his knee and questionable offensive scheme he's being asked to run has greatly exasperated the issue. That said, he still gives the best chance to win games.
 
The Svengali said:
He’s the same player he’s always been. This is how he’s always looked to me. You guys for whatever reason hyped him up to be something he’s not
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Really? So when he put up 2,982yds 36td's 6ints in 2018 you thought he was *** back then? Or do you mean since he has been in Miami. DK is a proven commodity for what its worth. But he's not playing to that level now. It could be the injury.
 
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scrantoncane said:
Watching the Bama game, I thought he was rightfully shook because of how many times he almost got killed. Scaife, in particular, was such a huge liability and you had Will Anderson coming off the edge. I can't blame him for thinking the pocket would collapse.

Last night I just don't get it. Only 3 balls travelled 20+ yards in the air? Why are we not taking more shots against lesser athletes? Let our guys go make a play... look what happened when K. Smith got a shot.

King not going through his progressions was glaring to me watching it live. The inability to work the middle of the field always stands out, but definitely did last night. Everything is horizontal, and poorly schemed at that. There were forced balls,. He doesn't look like the same QB as LY.
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They dropped a lot of 8 man looks and kept everything in. Front…and yes his timing and RPO reads have been off..and he had 4 drops
 
HurikaneMarc said:
Really? So when he put up 2,982yds 36td's 6ints in 2018 you thought he was *** back then? Or do you mean since he has been in Miami. DK is a proven commodity for what its worth. But he's not playing to that level now. It could be the injury.
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There’s no argument to be had..we had one poster say he’s about the same as Malik..I mean, how do you respond to something like that
 
scrantoncane said:
I just got a subscription this year for the 1st time, and I haven't had much time to use it. So I am not great at researching. But here are a few I've found:

When King has 2.5 seconds or more in the pocket:

-He has scrambled 13 times - 3rd most of 129 QBs with at least 20 dropbacks. The ony QBs that have scrambled more are Malik Cunningham (same # of dropbacks as King) and C Cordiero (90 dropbacks to King's 47). This means that even when he has time, King is tucking and running more than pretty much every FBS QB.

-His YPA is 5.7, which is 28th lowest in FBS. For context, only 2 of the QBs with lower YPA than King had more dropbacks than him (Jonah Johnson and Dylan Morris lol).

-His average depth of target (ADT) is 10.6 yards, 18th lowest in FBS.

-His NFL passer rating is 56.3, 25 worst in FBS.

Will post more when I have time to look them up. I don't mean to pile on the kid, and a lot of the blame is (rightfully?) placed on the OL, but King is contributing to the lack of pass game just as much, if not more than, the OL.
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Maybe lets do this after 5-6 games and not after 2 where one is against Bama with our pathetic OC
 
JZCane0825 said:
Theory, sure. Just think it's an extremely far-fetched take given his track record and work ethic.
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Not questioning his work ethic, but there's only so much time in a day and those NIL deals certainly are taking up some time from an advertising and promotion aspect alone.
 
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HurikaneMarc said:
Really? So when he put up 2,982yds 36td's 6ints in 2018 you thought he was *** back then? Or do you mean since he has been in Miami. DK is a proven commodity for what its worth. But he's not playing to that level now. It could be the injury.
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2016, 2017, 2018, 2019 (3-4 games) 2020, 2021…pick a year and my answer will remain the same. I’ve never, ever thought he was some kind of dynamic, elite QB. I’ve watched him play his whole career.

He’s a 5’8” tiny QB that’s solid running the ball and he is a threat to make some plays with his feet, but he’s not **** on wheels like, say, Vince young, Vick or Lamar. Also, he has an mediocre arm, can’t see the entire field due to his miniature stature and lack of feel or touch as a passer, and he misses many open guys.

Sorry, but what more do you want me to say??

I think he should be a slot WR, not a QB.
 
scrantoncane said:
Watching the Bama game, I thought he was rightfully shook because of how many times he almost got killed. Scaife, in particular, was such a huge liability and you had Will Anderson coming off the edge. I can't blame him for thinking the pocket would collapse.

Last night I just don't get it. Only 3 balls travelled 20+ yards in the air? Why are we not taking more shots against lesser athletes? Let our guys go make a play... look what happened when K. Smith got a shot.

King not going through his progressions was glaring to me watching it live. The inability to work the middle of the field always stands out, but definitely did last night. Everything is horizontal, and poorly schemed at that. There were forced balls,. He doesn't look like the same QB as LY.
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It was tough for me to comment on the Bama game because the TV view is different. Against App State, watching from the endzone and seeing all 22, I spent basically the whole game on our group chat commenting about opportunities downfield and down the seam.

It has to be a combination of things holding it back, but Key Smith should have had 12 targets against App State's #6. Rambo was also in some great matchups. Consistently. There were times where protection broke down, but there were also times half the endzone watched a receiver come free and, even when King connected, it was a solid couple ticks late.

Something is obviously disconnected between the system and the QB. Without sitting in the film or strategy room with them, impossible to say what.
 
There's some hot takes in here for sure. Visually, he doesn't look the same as last season. You can tell from watching the games. His confidence isn't there and his running ability is either 1) still not 100% or 2) it is mental and he is playing 'scared' as he doesn't want to get hurt again or maybe doesn't trust his knee fully yet.

This is somewhat aggravating, because all through fall camp we got to hear from our fantastic media about how "if you didn't know he was injured you wouldn't be able to tell". He is most definitely rusty, as he missed out on a lot in the offseason and camp. He probably played limited minutes in scrimmages and was non-contact for practices, etc

He will most likely improve and gain his form back from last season as this season goes on. The question actually is, will it be too little, too late or not?
Hopefully either Lashlee gets rid of the read option crap, or King starts to make better reads. Our joke of an O line should be able to provide him better protection and comfort-ability against the rest of the schedule (compared to Bama), which should help his confidence and in turn help his performance.

I'm excited for the young QBs as well, but throwing them out there now isn't going to do much for us. I also believe Garcia will win the starting spot next season.
 
The Svengali said:
2016, 2017, 2018, 2019 (3-4 games) 2020, 2021…pick a year and my answer will remain the same. I’ve never, ever thought he was some kind of dynamic, elite QB. I’ve watched him play his whole career.

He’s a 5’8” tiny QB that’s solid running the ball and he is a threat to make some plays with his feet, but he’s not **** on wheels like, say, Vince young, Vick or Lamar. Also, he has an mediocre arm, can’t see the entire field due to his miniature stature and lack of feel or touch as a passer, and he misses many open guys.

Sorry, but what more do you want me to say??

I think he should be a slot WR, not a QB.
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You don't have to say anything else. If you got to be Lamar or Vick to impress you then ok.

But even if you think he sucked in 2018 we'd all take that right now as opposed to what we are getting. He's not even playing to his normal status. People just want him to play to his previous levels that's all. DK doesn't have to be Lamar or Vick. Its not necessary that he be that good for us to win.
 
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LuCane said:
There were times where protection broke down, but there were also times half the endzone watched a receiver come free and, even when King connected, it was a solid couple ticks late.
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Amen.

When was the last time we saw a throw/route that was based on timing? Freshman Bryce Young was throwing them, but I honestly can't recall us throwing them (there are obviously going to be examples of when we did, but certainly not to the extent necessary to succeed at this level).

Everything seems to be go-routes, screens, or slants. When there is a stop or curl route, the throw is almost always at least a tick late. And the slants are few and far between (WRs may be running, but the ball doesn't go there often).

I have no doubt the WRs are talented enough to be difference makers. I see WRs at all levels of football do it every week. They can catch the ball, and they can run after the catch. ****, guys that would have been defensive ends 20 years ago are WRs now. These guys are freaks.

We don't get our guys the ball in space. That flood play, where we move the line one way and have the TE/HBack come the other way... how many times did that get blown up last weekend? That's all we have, with the talent on our roster?!

Go watch Western Kentucky film from this year. If you want to see what route trees can and should look like, it is a thing of beauty. They have literally a roster full of FCS guys, and they are doing work. They have a great QB, but the OC is the straw that stirs the drink.

(I started off on timing routes, and somehow moved to W. Kentucky OC. Apologies for the stream of consciousness posts I've been doing since Saturday. I am just ****ed and letting it all our via my keyboard.)
 
I’d like to queue the Aaron Rodgers R-E-L-A-X meme here but I’m not confident enough to say that for certain.

I think the game is moving too fast for him right now and Lashlee isn’t doing him any favors.

2016 against App State we ran a bubble until they came up and then bombed them when they did. Then went back to the bubble and killed them at will. We couldn’t execute a basic bubble on Saturday.

I think it’ll get better. But it’ll never meet the expectations from a month ago.
 
scrantoncane said:
I just got a subscription this year for the 1st time, and I haven't had much time to use it. So I am not great at researching. But here are a few I've found:

When King has 2.5 seconds or more in the pocket:

-He has scrambled 13 times - 3rd most of 129 QBs with at least 20 dropbacks. The ony QBs that have scrambled more are Malik Cunningham (same # of dropbacks as King) and C Cordiero (90 dropbacks to King's 47). This means that even when he has time, King is tucking and running more than pretty much every FBS QB.

-His YPA is 5.7, which is 28th lowest in FBS. For context, only 2 of the QBs with lower YPA than King had more dropbacks than him (Jonah Johnson and Dylan Morris lol).

-His average depth of target (ADT) is 10.6 yards, 18th lowest in FBS.

-His NFL passer rating is 56.3, 25 worst in FBS.

Will post more when I have time to look them up. I don't mean to pile on the kid, and a lot of the blame is (rightfully?) placed on the OL, but King is contributing to the lack of pass game just as much, if not more than, the OL.
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BOOM - I said this same thing from watching at the game Saturday. He seems shell shocked or something, and is bringing the ball down to run way too quick, on top of missing some easy throws. Manny saying he looks good and is back, is a line of bull****. These reporters need to start putting the technical questions to him and clear observations we see.

The thing is Manny is doing a great job building a program which is a major part of it, but I don't think he's the guy from a football scheme and skill standpoint. Coaching details, demanding certain things. He hasn't created a tough football team. Our size and all that is fine, so people need to stop with that. Its mental absolutely. Your either going to go knock someone on their *** or your going to half *** it.
 
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HurikaneMarc said:
You don't have to say anything else. If you got to be Lamar or Vick to impress you then ok.

But even if you think he sucked in 2018 we'd all take that right now as opposed to what we are getting. He's not even playing to his normal status. People just want him to play to his previous levels that's all. DK doesn't have to be Lamar or Vick. Its not necessary that he be that good for us to win.
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I never said he sucked. I specifically said I never thought he was a dynamic, elite QB. Not ever…in his 6 year career. Never.

He has major limitations and always had those limitations for 6 years. He’s always missed wide open guys, he’s always had issues seeing the field. He’s always been mediocre throwing the ball, even going back to Houston. He’s a systems QB. Dana Holgerson exposed his deficiencies as a passer that’s why he sat out after a few games and transferred.

Miami fans have hyped him up to be something he’s not and never was. Nobody cranks up the hype machine for mediocre to average players high than Miami fans. Y’all had Tate Martell winning the heisman the moment he transferred when me and a few others were like, “wait…what??!!”
 
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Cribby said:
King causes a lot of the pressure , last year too
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He does, and he did last year as well.

That is why I posted the stats for >2.5 seconds (that is the metric PFF uses... you can either search by more than 2.5 sec, or less than 2.5 sec).

As I have previously posted, I don't really blame King for the Bama game - guys like Will Anderson were blowing past our OLmen to the point where it would almost be an indictment on King if his 1st read wasn't open, and he held the ball for an extra second. He would've gotten hit very hard and probably coughed it up a few more times. I get it.

Vs App State, I don't get it. In my opinion, the OL is decent in pass protection. (I use the term "decent" lightly, because I am really just comparing it to our run blocking, which is absolutely awful... Miami OL couldn't get a push vs the much lighter App State DL. This is also why I find it laughable that ppl are saying Zion is a top 10 pick... he is an above-average ACC LT in pass protection, but he is an average to below-average ACC LT in run blocking. He is weak at the point of attack.)

But the pass protection vs App St was good enough, and King just doesn't keep his eyes downfield. In fact, I think that this is the thing that ultimately separates him from guys like Bryce Young. It has been said many times that King is an athlete playing QB... and I think it shows when looking at these stats.

A true "QB," like B Young, pretty much always has his eyes downfield, looking to extend the play by moving the pocket, but ultimately looking to get the ball to the WR weapons. I think that is the issue with King this year - he is not the same guy running the ball he was LY (understandably), but he is also still prone to tucking it and taking off. The numbers in my OP show as much.

This has allowed teams to stack the box even more than they would have after seeing the Clemson tape. App doesn't have the same caliber athletes on the outside that Clemson/Bama does... we should've been waiting for those 1-on-1 matchups to throw 50/50 balls. But we didn't.

Moving forward, what is going to change? If App can stack the box and make us beat them outside 1-on-1, what team on our schedule can't (besides the D-IIIIII team)?

This is why I posted in another thread that, on Saturday morning, it would've been crazy to think about benching King. But today... I will give him another game, but if King can't throw the ball 15+ yards downfield on a regular basis, he is handicapping the offense and he needs to sit. And I truly believe that.
 
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