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Jon Drummond and Chad Wilson....and a question for Pete.....

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How do you propose we do that considering the NCAA is just waiting for an excuse to destroy our program? Considering our probation status, the death penalty would be on the table.

Peter.....I know there is a lot of pressure to get information to make this site relevant....but don't sell out to do it man. Guys like Genron and Wilson will eventually become irrelevant.
 
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If we change things at UM--how we play and perform on the field, how open and inviting we are in the community--we make UM attractive to the kids to the point that these types of folks will have less influence over the kids in their reach. They have the level of power that they have now because we empower them by our own underperformance. If we get things rolling in those areas, it puts the lie to what these guys say and do.

Frankly, and though it may only be a tiny piece of it, getting these message boards to bring a positive vibe to the program and everything around it wouldn't hurt. We help empower these guys when we bring negativity. It wasn't lost on me that Chad (if it was him) didn't miss the opportunity to say that he wasn't tweeting anything that we fans weren't saying on these message boards anyway.

It has to start with the staff and the players and how they perform. I wouldn't expect much to be positive when your defense is laying down against everyone, but there's a place for vocal fans on message boards to help a positive vibe along if/when things start turning on the field.
 
I'm not saying you're wrong but isn't "adapting" too risky with the hard on the NCAA has for us? Isn't this the issue? The slightest slip up and then what happens?
 
TP801 said:
CANE said:
And win games.
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Uf went 4-8 and Muchamp still pulls more hoes than diabeetus gut golden...... To ash Lupoi at cal, Adrian Klemm at UCLA. FSU wasn't doing a **** thing before this year, but jumbo was still recruiting his *** off. All about relationships, connections, etc...... Winning helps but it's not the end all be all. Uf went 6-6 the first year chump was there and he still recruited at a very high level. Before 2012 jumbo had never won 11 games in a season since he took over as head corch.

Gulden just ****ing sucks, that's reality. Chili dog nerds and optimistic fans bought into the "golden hype" before he did a mother****ing thing, which is understandable. However, at some point it's time to face the facts. Dude has a CLEAR BIAS TOWARDS HIS lover diahrrea Dorito. Dude helped produce THE WORST DEFENSE IN UM HISTORY. And that's not hyperbole, he literally was responsible for producing the worst defense in SCHOOL HISTORY. Think about that for a min, and how can anyone rationalize why that ****ing guy is still employed at UM. Gulden negative recruited himself keeping his *** around. Other coaches pounce on **** like that, and hammer it into kids heads that the so called "defense" ****ing sucks and so does the guy attempting to run it.
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The sad part is I don't understand how anyone (including Golden) can truly believe that our defense will be better this year. I mean, the success of our defense hinges on a JUCO kid that hasn't even hit campus yet nor is guaranteed to ever hit campus. Let that sink in for a minute. When this defense is a disaster next year (and it's going to be a disaster) the wheels are going to come tumbling off the entire program. Call me crazy, and I probably shouldn't say this, but I think Coley realizes it and that's why we're starting to hear from various places about the work that he put in during recruiting season. History shows that Coley is opportunistic, and I guarandamntee he sees an opportunity here sooner than most think. Watch how it plays out, and when we suck, watch how we start hearing more and more about how Coley understands Miami whereas Golden doesn't. It's a coup d'etat in the making.
 
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Andrew said:
These guys aren't going no where so maybe golden can learn from Pete about having good relationships. If we want to win recruiting battles we better learn to win coaches.
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So winning coaches means to bow down to, cater to every whim, and tiptoe around them while they pump for the SEC? The double standard is so ridiculous. We make one tiny "mistep" (usually something that shouldn't make anybody with any degree of reason or rationality upset) and it becomes a big "dis" in the eyes of the local coaches. We don't kiss their asses at every turn, and we are "dissing" them. The other teams pretty much do whatever they want during the recruiting process and get NO blowback from it. How do you "win" coaches like that short of letting them dictate who you recruit, how you recruit, and treating them like pimps?
 
TheU1984 said:
Maaaaan. Pete got a point. If you can't beat em, join em. If you have to swallow a little pride for the success of the program, it has got to be done. Necessary evil.
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Pete's line of thought to embrace the 3rd Party/mentor/street agent/advisor types leads us down the garden path of...you guessed it...another Nevin Shapiro-type scandal. I, for one, want no part of something that takes us down that road ever again. We get another one of those, then SI will get their wish of Miami having to shut the football program down.

The problem with feeding guys like Genron are that they're greedy to begin with. They'll help you out and do it all while smiling and praising you, but there's always a favor they're waiting to cash in on later in return for the good they've done for you. Once you get one of those leeches on you, it's hard to pull them off. It starts as a symbiotic relationship, then becomes a parasitic one.

And guess what? When all the dirt gets dug up, who gets in trouble? Not Genron, that's who. It all falls down on the program, and then we're right back where we were with the Shapiro scandal, and even the Pell Grant/Long Distance scandals...staring probation and a possible death penalty for the program right in the face.
 
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The only school that doesn't need these guys is Bama.

Kids are tripping over one another to go there. Easily the best run college football organization ever.
 
BWCD said:
TheU1984 said:
Maaaaan. Pete got a point. If you can't beat em, join em. If you have to swallow a little pride for the success of the program, it has got to be done. Necessary evil.
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Pete's line of thought to embrace the 3rd Party/mentor/street agent/advisor types leads us down the garden path of...you guessed it...another Nevin Shapiro-type scandal. I, for one, want no part of something that takes us down that road ever again. We get another one of those, then SI will get their wish of Miami having to shut the football program down.

The problem with feeding guys like Genron are that they're greedy to begin with. They'll help you out and do it all while smiling and praising you, but there's always a favor they're waiting to cash in on later in return for the good they've done for you. Once you get one of those leeches on you, it's hard to pull them off. It starts as a symbiotic relationship, then becomes a parasitic one.

And guess what? When all the dirt gets dug up, who gets in trouble? Not Genron, that's who. It all falls down on the program, and then we're right back where we were with the Shapiro scandal, and even the Pell Grant/Long Distance scandals...staring probation and a possible death penalty for the program right in the face.
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The problem is that the relationship and "loyalty" have proven to be 100% a one-way street in SFL. UM is expected to cater to local talent first (immediate backlash when an out of stater is taken instead of one of the kids in our "backyard"), they are expected to cater to the coaches to a point of lunacy, they are supposed to cater to the handlers, they are supposed to be all about the SFL "community" in everything they do, they must show not only loyalty, but SUBSERVIENCE to the local community and football coaches. If we don't, we are "dissing" them and don't know how to maintain relationships. Meanwhile, even when we DO kiss *** for more than two years, cater to a player and his coaches, handlers, family, hear how they player is all about the U, they go and pick another team and say it's a "business decision" and loyalty just doesn't matter.
 
If we have to talk about two-bit street hustlers, it just shows the program - not just Al and Co. but UM Admin and Boosters, are still playing checkers where the big boys are playing chess. We need to do a better job of cultivating the big money. Not the nickel & dime street agents. But the guys who can add family members to payrolls without missing a beat. The guys who can connect people and move money and resources without ever being seen.
 
Ibis Wingz said:
canesman said:
So an administrator of this site thinks we should play ball with these shady characters? Interesting.
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Its pretty clear that those guys can hurt UM. You can either be naive and avoid them and hope for the best, or you can forge a good relationship with them and prosper.

When I first started practicing law, I took a no holds barred approach and learned very quickly that while it felt great to be the tough guy, it worked against me and my clients more often than not. There are some times when you have to draw a line in the sand and fight for a certain principle, but most of the time we get better results for our clients when we are nice to people and have good relationships with the insurance companies and the defense attorneys while we are fighting for our clients.

Capisce?
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I agree with this thought--and practice this way myself.

A problem in this case is that there isn't a way to truly forge a "good relationship" if folks are for sale and that's what is driving the whole thing. The other guys will always outpay because they'll pay something you are not willing or able to pay. So, if these street agent guys have their hooks into a top kid that other programs want and the issue really is about money, they'll sell to the highest bidder, no matter what relationship you have in place.

If playing nice with them means buying a recruiting service or something else that they sell (legitimate--not buying a kid), the most that might do is keep them from trashing you in the community. Standing alone, that might be enough of a reason to buy in, but it reeks of a shake down.

I prefer that we make them as irrelevant as possible.
 
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Andrew said:
These guys aren't going no where so maybe golden can learn from Pete about having good relationships. If we want to win recruiting battles we better learn to win coaches.
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Yep!

It's not like it's either "pay 'em or shun 'em" option. There's a huge area in between. Yes, these guys are self-serving leeches that get what's theirs under the auspices of "doing it for the kids", but Golden needs to realize that he needs to play nice with them. I don't know what that can entail, but I'm sure ex-bagman Coley can help guide the way. Do things like support 7 on 7 efforts, recruit the handlers' "other kids" in order to get them exposure, etc.
 
I am in no way advocating paying players. Just make these people a part of the process as they want to be.
 
HurricaneU said:
If we have to talk about two-bit street hustlers, it just shows the program - not just Al and Co. but UM Admin and Boosters, are still playing checkers where the big boys are playing chess. We need to do a better job of cultivating the big money. Not the nickel & dime street agents. But the guys who can add family members to payrolls without missing a beat. The guys who can connect people and move money and resources without ever being seen.
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Ok, now we go from the naive musings of Pete to the utterly ridiculous. Yeah, let's just blow it out big-time . . . connect with a drug lord, open offshore accounts, shell companies. While the NCAA sleeps, we'll buy every kid in S. Fl.

Better yet, why not empower all the internet experts to purchase tickets to Miami games, put some asses in the seats and maybe create an environment that vaguely resembles major college football.
 
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