Is Manny a Good DC??

[Ericsoncane]

Yes, and again, this doesn't tell the whole story. Clemson for example, they pretty much did whatever they wanted in the first half of that game in Charlotte. So the overall number doesn't look bad, but we struggled on defense in the 1st half. To your point, some help from the offense might have helped just a smidge. IIRC, they went down the field and scored twice to start the game, and they muffed a punt in between there and of course we did nothing for it, then missed a FG. Then after a 3 and out, Feagles had one of his patented 15 yard punts, gave them the ball around our 40, they scored again, and that's a wrap.

So it's why I prefaced what I wrote with not taking this as gospel. It tells a story. Not the whole story, but it does tell a story. If you never watched a Miami game and just came on this board, you'd think we played 12 games every single season like the UNC game this year. That was certainly not the case.

Even in that game the first two scoring drives were 71 and 66 yard drives then their other scoring drives were 44,41,13 and a 15 yard fg drive. That's where having an offense and good punting team helps the defense.

 

[Handsome Squidbum]

Here’s my question since I did something similar in another post:

What was there total yards in comparison?
What was their T.O.P in comparison?
What was their 3rd down pct%
What was their 4th down pct%
What was their PPG v. what we allowed?

There’s 1000 ways to die, and if I recall, outside of the, literally, miraculous 15 game winning streak we went on, I specifically recall Manny’s defense dying a slow death, whether that was giving up 3rd down after 3rd down, 4th down after 4th down, or any team that had any sort of run game, pounding it down our throats for a consistent 3-4 ypc = 200+ yards on the ground.

So, are we going to just get ran through like a see through pair of boxers (Baker’s def) or are we going to get bled through like a loose tampon (Diaz’s def)? Pick ur poison, b/c the YPP is not a great indicator IF yo *** can’t get off the field (Diaz’s defense).

2016: massive reversal in D. Players recruited for a 3-4, but Diaz turned them into a solid unit.

2017 the D carried the team (offense avg a mediocre 29 ppg and ranked #59). Diaz had the #27 D, and 10 wins. Miami lost its best offensive player to start the season and so the offense suddenly ran through Rosier (not good) . A ton on responsibility put on the D. I went through the exaggeration of how bad the D was at Clemson. Offense and ST were far, far more to blame. Pitt game? Yeah that wasn't on the D. Also, obliterated the #3 team. The "no true Scotsman" fallacy rears its ugly head. Since Miami's D dominated a top 25 ND offense, it just proves that ND's offense wasn't truly good, right? Wisconsin, as pointed out, players were generally in the right spots, they failed at their job. DC is responsible but that's not a schematic issue.

2018- probably the best D with Diaz as DC. Didn't give up more than 33 pts all season until the bowl game. Lost 35-3. Bad performance. But do you know how many times Miami turned the ball over? 5 times. 5 turnovers. 5 extra chances on a short field and it's a miracle the final score wasn't 60-3.

2019-2020, Baker sucks. No argument. He was relieved of playcalling duties. If Miami has the 2018 defense with Lashlees offense, that's actually a winning combo.

 

[AlexCane]

The thing is, even if Manny is a good DC, his responsibilities as a HC are now far, far more extensive than when he simply had to worry about 1 side of the ball. So, his attention now is far more distracted than then. Less attention will manifest itself in performance and in turn on his coaching.

 

[Meast21]

Great analysis OP. Would also love to see an analysis on TO's which often can totally change the make-up of a game. During Manny's DC era I remember the chain coming out 2-4 times every game. Last year it felt like maybe 1-2 a game at best. Maybe I'm wrong?

 

[Handsome Squidbum]

The thing is, even if Manny is a good DC, his responsibilities as a HC are now far, far more extensive than when he simply had to worry about 1 side of the ball. So, his attention now is far more distracted than then. Less attention will manifest itself in performance and in turn on his coaching.

Then he gets fired, and Miami gets a new coach. Where is the downside?

 

[Ethnicsands]

2016: massive reversal in D. Players recruited for a 3-4, but Diaz turned them into a solid unit.

2017 the D carried the team (offense avg a mediocre 29 ppg and ranked #59). Diaz had the #27 D, and 10 wins. Miami lost its best offensive player to start the season and so the offense suddenly ran through Rosier (not good) . A ton on responsibility put on the D. I went through the exaggeration of how bad the D was at Clemson. Offense and ST were far, far more to blame. Pitt game? Yeah that wasn't on the D. Also, obliterated the #3 team. The "no true Scotsman" fallacy rears its ugly head. Since Miami's D dominated a top 25 ND offense, it just proves that ND's offense wasn't truly good, right? Wisconsin, as pointed out, players were generally in the right spots, they failed at their job. DC is responsible but that's not a schematic issue.

2018- probably the best D with Diaz as DC. Didn't give up more than 33 pts all season until the bowl game. Lost 35-3. Bad performance. But do you know how many times Miami turned the ball over? 5 times. 5 turnovers. 5 extra chances on a short field and it's a miracle the final score wasn't 60-3.

2019-2020, Baker sucks. No argument. He was relieved of playcalling duties. If Miami has the 2018 defense with Lashlees offense, that's actually a winning combo.

People keep saying this, but have no evidence its true. Two things changed from ‘18 - ‘19. Baker to DC and Manny to HC. Everyone assumes Baker was the flaw but Baker has been a DC in his career. Manny has never managed a DC prior to ’19. Its weird that no one seems to have recognized that the flaw may be manny as HC not Baker as DC. If you don’t grasp that, you don’t grasp management.

 

[Handsome Squidbum]

People keep saying this, but have no evidence its true. Two things changed from ‘18 - ‘19. Baker to DC and Manny to HC. Everyone assumes Baker was the flaw but Baker has been a DC in his career. Manny has never managed a DC prior to ’19. Its weird that no one seems to have recognized that the flaw may be manny as HC not Baker as DC. If you don’t grasp that, you don’t grasp management.

We will know for sure next season. The fact that no other team has shown interest in hiring Baker suggests that other teams recognize his deficiencies. Take a guy like Venables. Stripped of playcalling duties but Dabo snatched him up immediately. Not even G5 teams are interested in Baker as a playcalling DC. You see teams hiring non playcalling DCs all the time. Freeman was a non play calling DC (Indiana?) when Cincy hired him. If the problem was with Diazs management, some other team would have been knocking on the door for Baker. He got publicly humiliated by Diaz taking away his job, he'd likely be eager to go elsewhere but his phone ain't ringing. On the flip side a coach in high demand like T-Rob came aboard. Dude was a former P5 DC. I doubt Diaz surprised him with this decision. Clearly he thinks the D will be much better under Diaz or he wouldn't be here.

 

[Ethnicsands]

We will know for sure next season. The fact that no other team has shown interest in hiring Baker suggests that other teams recognize his deficiencies. Take a guy like Venables. Stripped of playcalling duties but Dabo snatched him up immediately. Not even G5 teams are interested in Baker as a playcalling DC. You see teams hiring non playcalling DCs all the time. Freeman was a non play calling DC (Indiana?) when Cincy hired him. If the problem was with Diazs management, some other team would have been knocking on the door for Baker.

Maybe, but you sound like you’re trying to make an argument for no purpose. How many teams are trying to hire manny away from UM as a HC? What do you make of that?

You’re dealing in the realm of rationalization. I’m just observing facts. Manny has never managed a DC before, and D went bad when he started to do so.

 

[Handsome Squidbum]

Maybe, but you sound like you’re trying to make an argument for no purpose. How many teams are trying to hire manny away from UM as a HC? What do you make of that?

You’re dealing in the realm of rationalization. I’m just observing facts. Manny has never managed a DC before, and D went bad when he started to do so.

Your incontrovertible proof that Diazs management is a problem is that other teams aren't trying to hire Diaz as HC? OK friendo. Yes, Diaz hasnt managed a DC before because this is just his second year as a HC. You have a sample size of 1 yet you think making sweeping generalizations that Diaz cant manage a DC makes your opinions "facts." Re-labeling your opinion as a fact does not actually make it a fact.

Since the offense was much better and showed improvement from one year to the next, are you willing to admit that Diaz knows how to manage OCs? Let me help you out. Lashlee was a better OC than Enos, so the offense looked better. We don't know if another DC would have done the same and made the defense look better. All we we know for sure is that Baker didn't work out, just like Enos didn't work out. The next OC after Enos was much better and as far as I know, Diaz didn't take an online management course from the University of Phoenix to learn how to manage an OC between 2019 and 2020.

 

[OrangeBowlMagic]

Maybe, but you sound like you’re trying to make an argument for no purpose. How many teams are trying to hire manny away from UM as a HC? What do you make of that?

You’re dealing in the realm of rationalization. I’m just observing facts. Manny has never managed a DC before, and D went bad when he started to do so.

This guy is back on his managing a DC nonsense hahahahahaah. Good stuff.

Crazy he figured out how to manage an OC to a massive improvement. He also managed Patke to make Borregales win the Groza award. Couldn’t manage that pesky DC though who has never coordinated a defense at this level. Probably just a coincidence. Here’s hoping Managin’ Manny makes an appearance soon! But only on defense. He’s got the other parts managed.

 

[Hurracanes]

Appreciate the work on the numbers and such but I know what I watch when I see the games ... Numbers don't tell the whole story...

 

[BoxingRobes]

I don't want to write out a long reply...because its unnecessary. I think you did a great job @Rellyrell . I'd qualify Manny Diaz as "slightly above average"...his defense is predicated on getting teams behind schedule with sacks/TFL and forcing turnovers. When he's doing those things (and turnovers are very much a luck based metric and leads to a lot of volatility/inconsistency), his defenses are pretty **** good. However, those two metrics aren't exactly metrics that lead to consistent success so he gets his *** handed to him when teams eventually eat him alive in the middle of the field or just one cut run/stretch for big gains as teams just march down the field on him. His style might work at some lower level schools, but he won't be a consistent winner here. Good coaches sniff him out every time.

 

[PalyCane]

Interesting that we held 2017 Wisconsin to nearly a full yard below their average YPP.

But when you look at it deeper, Hornibrook went 23/34 for 258, 4 TD and no picks. That's pretty pitiful defense. Jonathan Taylor ran for 130 yards on 26 carries. They might not have had a ton of long plays, but they picked us apart underneath all game. They also controlled the clock with a 2 to 1 time of possession. They were 7/15 on 3rd down and we frequently couldn't get off the field.

Same thing with 2018 Wisconsin. We held them to half a point below their average YPP, but no one can objectively look at that game and say we played good defense. They ran for 333 yards on 58 carries. Their YPP was lower than normal only because they threw the ball just 11 times

Those are just two examples of how YPP can be a flawed metric.

No hysteria or emotionally driven response here. I think Manny is a good, but not great DC. I just caution making a conclusion based on one metric only is a flawed way of analyzing his capabilities with the job. It would be interesting to see how we stack up in others metrics (3rd down %, redzone %, turnovers, etc).

Yes thank you for this. The OP contained some impressive work. But my reaction when I first read it was to wonder why it wasn't done using points scored since that's what determines who wins and who loses.

Sure yardage gained is one thing that influences points given up, but in the final analysis points are what matters. And as you sagely observed, focusing on yardage can actually obscure instances when we played ****** defense such as the UW 2017 bowl game where our defense got run over notwithstanding that other metrics might suggest the defense played well in that game (lol).

 

[rayray]

in these discussions about how manny's defense performed in games vs opponents with "equal" talent it's funny that the notre dame game never comes up. that notre dame offense had two top 10 picks on the OL, multiple NFL players at WR and TE, and an NFL RB and we kicked their *** from the opening snap to the final whistle... btw it's prob the single best win we've had in like a decade at least.

 

[Ethnicsands]

This guy is back on his managing a DC nonsense hahahahahaah. Good stuff.

Crazy he figured out how to manage an OC to a massive improvement. He also managed Patke to make Borregales win the Groza award. Couldn’t manage that pesky DC though who has never coordinated a defense at this level. Probably just a coincidence. Here’s hoping Managin’ Manny makes an appearance soon! But only on defense. He’s got the other parts managed.

See, your effort at rationalizing exposes your mistake. We know manny left the OC alone. Not only because he has no experience as an OC but because they both said so. We also know he meddles in the d. Not only because he has experience as a DC, but because he’s effectively said so.

you’re looking for other things to complicate or change the picture. But that’s rationalizing. The question is whether he botched the DC management. He wouldn’t be the first manager who couldn’t let go of his old job when promoted and botched trying to supervise the person who succeeded him in it. No need to try to spin the issue.

 

[Rellyrell]

2016: massive reversal in D. Players recruited for a 3-4, but Diaz turned them into a solid unit.

2017 the D carried the team (offense avg a mediocre 29 ppg and ranked #59). Diaz had the #27 D, and 10 wins. Miami lost its best offensive player to start the season and so the offense suddenly ran through Rosier (not good) . A ton on responsibility put on the D. I went through the exaggeration of how bad the D was at Clemson. Offense and ST were far, far more to blame. Pitt game? Yeah that wasn't on the D. Also, obliterated the #3 team. The "no true Scotsman" fallacy rears its ugly head. Since Miami's D dominated a top 25 ND offense, it just proves that ND's offense wasn't truly good, right? Wisconsin, as pointed out, players were generally in the right spots, they failed at their job. DC is responsible but that's not a schematic issue.

2018- probably the best D with Diaz as DC. Didn't give up more than 33 pts all season until the bowl game. Lost 35-3. Bad performance. But do you know how many times Miami turned the ball over? 5 times. 5 turnovers. 5 extra chances on a short field and it's a miracle the final score wasn't 60-3.

2019-2020, Baker sucks. No argument. He was relieved of playcalling duties. If Miami has the 2018 defense with Lashlees offense, that's actually a winning combo.

Agree w/ you; the 2018 Def was his best coaching job; O let them down.

 

[Jedi Master Cane]

Good coordinators don't get fired early in their careers as coordinators IN COLLEGE.

It's one thing to try your hand as a coordinator in the NFL and it not work out, but if you can't get the job done in college......yeah, not much else to say.

 

[Ethnicsands]

Your incontrovertible proof that Diazs management is a problem is that other teams aren't trying to hire Diaz as HC? OK friendo. Yes, Diaz hasnt managed a DC before because this is just his second year as a HC. You have a sample size of 1 yet you think making sweeping generalizations that Diaz cant manage a DC makes your opinions "facts." Re-labeling your opinion as a fact does not actually make it a fact.

Since the offense was much better and showed improvement from one year to the next, are you willing to admit that Diaz knows how to manage OCs? Let me help you out. Lashlee was a better OC than Enos, so the offense looked better. We don't know if another DC would have done the same and made the defense look better. All we we know for sure is that Baker didn't work out, just like Enos didn't work out. The next OC after Enos was much better and as far as I know, Diaz didn't take an online management course from the University of Phoenix to learn how to manage an OC between 2019 and 2020.

You debate lick a bad first year law student. Incontrovertible proof? I’ve pointed out tuat everyone who concludes Baker is the problem on D is ignoring an alternative possibility that isn’t far fetched at all.

secondly, kt’s pretty obvious manny lscks a lot of the managerial chops to be Hc. He’s never done it before, for one thing. And botched much of it already, for another. Fired his new O staff year 1. Evidently tried and failed tp replace his DC year 2, and now is going to do the guy’s job for him. Plenty of ofher failures in there, too. So the idea thst manny’s got short-comings as a manager is kinda obviously demonstrated.

 

[Handsome Squidbum]

This guy is back on his managing a DC nonsense hahahahahaah. Good stuff.

Crazy he figured out how to manage an OC to a massive improvement. He also managed Patke to make Borregales win the Groza award. Couldn’t manage that pesky DC though who has never coordinated a defense at this level. Probably just a coincidence. Here’s hoping Managin’ Manny makes an appearance soon! But only on defense. He’s got the other parts managed.

It seems you are arguing with someone who thinks the coordinator management correspondence course at the University of Phoenix is a year long- Diaz only took the first semester "how to manage an OC", but didn't take the second part of "how to manage a DC."

Now a logical person would observe that the first OC initially appeared to be competent but struggled. He was replaced, and the subsequent did much better. If Diazs "coordinator management" style was the reason for the first OCs failure, it is unlikely there would have been such a massive improvement in the offense with the second. A logical person would then reach the conclusion that the problem was the coordinator, not Diaz.

On the defense, we see a similar situation. The DC is underperforming expectations. The question is whether that is an issue with the HCs management style or the coordinator. We just saw in the previous case that the problem turned out to be the coordinator. A logical person would think "On offense, we thought the problem was the HC, but it wasn't. Maybe that's the same situation on defense." A logical person would also be aware that it is ridiculous to say that a HC only has the management skills to manage a coordinator on one side of the ball but not the other. But I don't think you are dealing with a logical person.

 

[407cane]

He's mediocre as a DC, which is a couple steps above what he's been as a HC.

Same sh*t you were saying the week Manny got hired as DC instead of the scrub you wanted .

Just as wrong now as you were then