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I was wrong

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Great dialogue in this thread; to OPs point, just going back to 2016, since that class would be Sr’s at this point:

2016:
FSU class rank #3. 25 signed at a 72% blue chip ratio
Clemson class rank #11. 20 signed at a 60% blue chip ratio

2017:
FSU class rank #6. 24 signed at a 50% blue chip ratio
Clemson class rank #16. ONLY 14 signed, but was at a 71% blue chip ratio

2018:
FSU class rank #11. 21 signed at a 62% blue chip ratio
Clemson class rank #7. ONLY 17 signed, but was at a 71% blue chip ratio

2019:
FSU class rank #19. 21 signed at a 43% blue chip ratio
Clemson class rank #10. 28 signed at a 46% blue chip ratio.

During this 4 yr period, FSU avg. blue chip recruiting ratio has been at about 57% while Clemson has been about 62%.
The caveats in both scenarios is that FSU have had bigger classes than Clemson for 3 of the 4 yrs, but Clemson has been very judicious in their smaller classes, picking up nine 5* players v. FSU picking up five 5* players during this time frame.

The talent gap, per 247, is not a big difference between Clemson & FSU....literally they both have recruited very well since 2016, but the BIGGEST difference as to why there appears to be such a discrepancy of talent is due to coaching. Coaching & player development is everything.

Just think back to our fall from grace:
2003-Class rank #4, blue chip ratio of 57%
2004-Class rank #3, blue chip ratio of 52%
2005-Class rank #9, blue chip ratio of 73%
2006-Class rank #12, blue chip ratio of 50%

Four year stretch we had a blue chip ratio of approx. 58%, by far the best against any of the opponents on our schedule, and we went 36-13 with our record subsiding every year.

Coaching is key, u need the Ferrari, but u need someone that knows how to drive it
 
kryptonite said:
So what about Miami and fsu? We're sitting here with more talent than 98% of the NCAA and we can't regularly win 10 games. What about PSU? What have they done with their gaudy blue chip ratio? When was USC's last NC? They don't have to go through bama, so what's their excuse?
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We're going to win 10 games this year.
 
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kryptonite said:
I actually didn't have a chart ready, I was going off what I read the other day. But since you think that, here's another chart and article that say the same thing. Before you call me out, try Google.

Also, your argument is sht. You can always look at who wins the most games that season and claim they must be the most talented team, but is that really your position? Clemson is clearly the most talented because they win the most? So talent doesn't matter?
View attachment 96044

www.sbnation.com

Blue-Chip Ratio 2018: 13 teams have title-worthy recruiting

Only 10 percent of the 130 teams in FBS have enough talent to win the natty, according to a recent historical benchmark.
www.sbnation.com www.sbnation.com
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you need to look at where those stars fall in terms of production and combine that with coaching. Trevor Lawrence is a different kind of blue chip and impacts his team disproportionately when compared to other blue chip players and other positions. Then you have to factor in system fits and what coaches do with players...

This brings me back to Miami... UF was an inconsequential tune-up that provided a great opportunity for players to grow, but the way we lost shows "the virus" lives, which to me is an indictment on our coaching. We lost that game on penalties, a lack of discipline, and poor technique in all 3 phases. Richt had his issues but his teams were more disciplined. I'll be holding out hope for a major improvement next weekend.
 
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Mahoney-Pearson said:
you need to look at where those stars fall in terms of production and combine that with coaching. Trevor Lawrence is a different kind of blue chip and impacts his team disproportionately when compared to other blue chip players and other positions. Then you have to factor in system fits and what coaches do with players...

This brings me back to Miami... UF was an inconsequential tune-up that provided a great opportunity for players to grow, but the way we lost shows "the virus" lives, which to me is an indictment on our coaching. We lost that game on penalties, a lack of discipline, and poor technique in all 3 phases. Richt had his issues but his teams were more disciplined. I'm holding out hope for a major improvement next weekend.
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I think it's too soon to tell what Manny's team will be like, but my point stands. Coaching is more important than talent. You need both, but coaching is the larger component. Our coaches are brand new to their jobs here, and uf's coaches suck balls...that's why you saw the cluster of fck in our first game. Hopefully we'll get it together, but if we don't it won't be for lack of talent.
 
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kryptonite said:
Based on what? Performance?

Everybody agrees with you there, but the numbers are what they are. fsu still has more 4/5* guys than Clemson. That's just a fact. But that's not even what's important. The point is that they've got similar amounts of talent and vastly different outcomes. Same goes for Miami. We can out-talent almost every team we play, but we still don't win all the games.
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“Same goes for Miami. We can out-talent almost every team we play, but we still don't win all the games”........This has been the case since we have entered the ACC! Great point and accurate assessment of Hurricanes football over the last 10-15 years.
 
Calvin said:
I'm glad you posted this silly chart, and maybe you'll learn a lesson this time, but if im reading this correctly, how in the **** did clemson even get into the playoffs let alone win it all, man GTFOH with this nonsense chart, that's why the games are actually played, not some nerd recruiting sites trying to tell us who allegedly had the best recruiting class.
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You can’t have it both ways. You can’t bytch about blue-chip ratio, and talent being the most important factor, and then conveniently throw away or ignore multiple charts based on 4/5 Star players in each program.

Bottom line is that F$U has landed a higher percentage of blue-chip players than Clem$on (players that were rated higher when they signed their letter of intent).

This leaves one and only one conclusion. F$U has grossly underperformed due to top level corching. We’ve had a similar problem for the last 15 years. Nobody can or should argue that we’re more talented than everyone in the ACC except Clem$on and F$U, yet we still lose multiple games a year to teams that have no business being on the field with us.

Evaluating talent, development of said talent and fitting your system to fit the strengths of the aforementioned are the keys to winning at a high level.

Too many corches want to fit a square peg into a circle. You have a QB that excelled in the shotgun in high-school, your scheme should reflect that. Same goes for a guy that’s isn’t the best in press coverage, but you want to put him on an island with top flight receivers.

Great coaches adapt and keep on evolving, always striving to get better. Corches, on the other hand, have shown to be mostly bull headed when it comes to scheme and player type not meshing.

Bottom line is that talent is important, but without great coaching you’ve got nothing.
 
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kryptonite said:
I think it's too soon to tell what Manny's team will be like, but my point stands. Coaching is more important than talent. You need both, but coaching is the larger component. Our coaches are brand new to their jobs here, and uf's coaches suck balls...that's why you saw the cluster of fck in our first game. Hopefully we'll get it together, but if we don't it won't be for lack of talent.
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They looked like coaches who didn't know their players, and that's most disturbing considering Manny has been here for a minute.
 
CaneTheGaytors said:
You can’t have it both ways. You can’t bytch about blue-chip ratio, and talent being the most important factor, and then conveniently throw away or ignore multiple charts based on 4/5 Star players in each program.

Bottom line is that F$U has landed a higher percentage of blue-chip players than Clem$on (players that were rated higher when they signed their letter of intent).

This leaves one and only one conclusion. F$U has grossly underperformed due to top level corching. We’ve had a similar problem for the last 15 years. Nobody can or should argue that we’re more talented than everyone in the ACC except Clem$on and F$U, yet we still lose multiple games a year to teams that have no business being on the field with us.

Evaluating talent, development of said talent and fitting your system to fit the strengths of the aforementioned are the keys to winning at a high level.

Too many corches want to fit a square peg into a circle. You have a QB that excelled in the shotgun in high-school, your scheme should reflect that. Same goes for a guy that’s isn’t the best in press coverage, but you want to put him on an island with top flight receivers.

Great coaches adapt and keep on evolving, always striving to get better. Corches, on the other hand, have shown to be mostly bull headed when it comes to scheme and player type not meshing.

Bottom line is that talent is important, but without great coaching you’ve got nothing.
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Yeah, I’ve always gone back to thinking about Beamer/Foster at VT. They always outcoached us. I also think that they knew how to evaluate non-4 Star talent that fits what they do in their system. They could outperform their blue chip ratios but because of their talent level, they could only get so far.
 
CaneTheGaytors said:
You can’t have it both ways. You can’t bytch about blue-chip ratio, and talent being the most important factor, and then conveniently throw away or ignore multiple charts based on 4/5 Star players in each program.

Bottom line is that F$U has landed a higher percentage of blue-chip players than Clem$on (players that were rated higher when they signed their letter of intent).

This leaves one and only one conclusion. F$U has grossly underperformed due to top level corching. We’ve had a similar problem for the last 15 years. Nobody can or should argue that we’re more talented than everyone in the ACC except Clem$on and F$U, yet we still lose multiple games a year to teams that have no business being on the field with us.

Evaluating talent, development of said talent and fitting your system to fit the strengths of the aforementioned are the keys to winning at a high level.

Too many corches want to fit a square peg into a circle. You have a QB that excelled in the shotgun in high-school, your scheme should reflect that. Same goes for a guy that’s isn’t the best in press coverage, but you want to put him on an island with top flight receivers.

Great coaches adapt and keep on evolving, always striving to get better. Corches, on the other hand, have shown to be mostly bull headed when it comes to scheme and player type not meshing.

Bottom line is that talent is important, but without great coaching you’ve got nothing.
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Well you talking to a person who doesnt care about star rankings nor do i pay attention to that crap, means nothing to me or even most real headcoaches, that's fodder for the people who dont know football, and its just a way to keep people engaged year round, but just asj yourself a question, if you were a football coach or head football coach, you really going to take the advice of some nerd websites that cant even explain how they come up with their ranking system except mostly by what they seeing in 7 on 7 tournaments, its ab insult to a real headcoach or coach to insinuate they care about stars or class rankings, which is why coach richt didnt care, coach diaz, banda and likes consistently say the same thing in interviews. Its like asking which nfl franchise listens to mel kiper or todd mcshay, at least mcshay doesnt sound arrogant so when he's wrong like kiper normally is, it doesnt standout. Its comical watching kiper complain and getting upset cause a team doesnt draft the player he has in his notes that he thinks they should take.

All i care about are the guys that actually do something in games, to many people get excited about class rankings and being star whores and the famous "we stole one from Fsu, the gaytors or Bama, so people get hyped up behind that crap and most often than not those players dont pan out. Im not impressed by whatever ranking a player supposedly have im not a star *****, im only impressed when they actually doing something in real games, which is exactly why a big part of us losing to the gaytors was because we had some of the wrong guys on the field, mallory's light *** should be redshirted or should've never started over irvin. I told one of these clown posters on here that way back before spring football. If you look at the gaytor game, most if not all of the offensive plays run to mallory's side were disastrous, he cant block or hold up at the point of attack, why is he even in on the specials teams unit blocking. Although i disagreed with that holding call on mallory when they actually threw the flag, but after the flag was thrown you can make the case he might've been holding, but even still, that jacked us up for sure.

Catches going thru his hands, he needs to be redshirted, all he has is speed right now, and even still he wasnt getting no separation. Point being, between him and transfer tate, in a game like the gaytor game, them 2 should not have even been on the field, when the were, we was playing 9 against 11.

Use your own eyeballs and brain, its like coach diaz and enos trying to justify putting transfer tate in the game and talking nonsense, disrespecting deejay dallas, by claiming on that touchdown run, it had alot to do with transfer tate being in the game, people who dont know football might gobble that up, but what part did tate play in the 5 tackles deejay broke to get to the endzone. And see if you can find tate anywhere in these, maybe i missed em:

 
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Lazarre said:
Talent is the most important thing. The more talent you have the better off you are but the development of the talent is key. That's what separates the elite coaches from the rest of the pack. Saban/Urban/Dabo schemes are basic. No where close to NFL level schemes. But they get the top talent and get them to there max potential .
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I watched the opening two drives by Georgia last night. They found the endzone twice. Nothing revolutionary about their play calling, their players just obliterated angles.
 
MikeCane18 said:
Listen man. I don't care what Bud Elliott or the rest of these cuck writers want to get people believing. FSU is not more talented than Clemson.
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Clemson has some elite talent on offense. But FSU does as well, and FSU is far more talented in defense.

There is a reason Clemson has one of the highest paid Staffs in the nation, and FSU has Taggart and *ahem* Briles, lol
 
kryptonite said:
Coaching is the most important piece of a winning program.

I spent a lot of time telling people how important talent is, but now I see it's coaching that's most important. Not that talent doesn't' matter, but the big three in florida tell the tale. We've all got talent, **** fsu is the most talented team in the ACC, and we're decent, decent, and terrible. If you want to reach the top, you need that 50%+ blue chip ratio, but no matter what your expectation, you need that coaching.

Bottom line: you can be real good with great coaching and average players, but fsu proves that great players and average coaching leads to a craptastic team.
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To be great, you need great coaches and players. It’s similar to health and fitness. You can workout like and animals and eat “ok”. You’ll be “ok”. You can eat perfectly and workout sometimes. You’ll be “ok”. It’s 100% diet and 100% exercise. There’s no such thing as 50/50 or one matters more than the other. Perfect is perfect. Great is great. If you’re looking for anything less, do less than 100% coaching and players.
 
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