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MikeCane18 said:
Would that lead you to believe that statistically they would be able to overcome bad coaching then? over a set time.
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No. My point is that talent is very important, but not as important as coaching. I'm saying that individual 4/5* guys will bust, but overall they succeed at a much higher rate than 3* guys. I'm also saying that even with all the talent, it's coaching that gets you to the top.
 
It's a combination of several factors.

But the reality is even the most talented teams in the country don't win it all without an elite quarterback puting them over the top. It's what separates them from the rest of the herd.

If you don't agree just go down the list of past 15 or so champions and find more than one that didn't have a difference maker under center.
 
Calvin said:
Where do you get that "Fsu is the most talented team in the ACC" from, coach richt beat em twice, and once before gumbo left!
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Thanks for paying attention. Since you missed it the first time, here's a second article showing that fsu has a higher blue chip ratio than Clemson.

Screen Shot 2019-08-31 at 10.41.48 PM.png


www.sbnation.com

Blue-Chip Ratio 2018: 13 teams have title-worthy recruiting

Only 10 percent of the 130 teams in FBS have enough talent to win the natty, according to a recent historical benchmark.
www.sbnation.com www.sbnation.com
 
Talent is the most important thing. The more talent you have the better off you are but the development of the talent is key. That's what separates the elite coaches from the rest of the pack. Saban/Urban/Dabo schemes are basic. No where close to NFL level schemes. But they get the top talent and get them to there max potential .
 
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kryptonite said:
No. My point is that talent is very important, but not as important as coaching. I'm saying that individual 4/5* guys will bust, but overall they succeed at a much higher rate than 3* guys. I'm also saying that even with all the talent, it's coaching that gets you to the top.
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I still don't think when you peel back the layers of these mythical rankings FSU has more talent then Clemson. It's being proven that their talent is overrated and it happens to every team, but to an extent FSU has had some 5 stars bust at a very high rate lately. FSU has some talented players but not nearly the amount that is being portrayed.
 
Swampcity said:
The OP is correct. The right head coach can change a program and take it to higher levels:
A. Saban
B. Dabo
C. Jimmy Johnson / Schenllenberger
D. Spurrier (the gates were trash until he came)
E. Urban (don't like him, but he wins NC)
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I think there is a logical balance. A fantastic coach can take lower level talent and scheme his way to a winning season, maybe even 10
wins. But he cannot win a NC.

Likewise a terrible coaching staff can find themselves at 7 wins or less despite superior talent (see FSU, Al Golden’s Miami, Charlie Strong’s Texas, Muschamp’s Gators).

Butch was not an outstanding schemer, but was a superlative recruiter. Art Briles had inferior talent, but was an outstanding schemer. As for Miami, the poster is right - Manny Diaz either has to be a strong schemer and an outstanding recruiter, or vice versa. One or the other has to be superlative. Or no return to prominence.
 
DaUAllDay said:
Op Had that chart waiting for the first person to byte. That chart is bs, the star ratings these sites have are bogus, Clemson CLEARLY has the best talent in the acc and it’s not even close.

I do agree that coaching is what separates the contenders from pretenders.
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I actually didn't have a chart ready, I was going off what I read the other day. But since you think that, here's another chart and article that say the same thing. Before you call me out, try Google.

Also, your argument is sht. You can always look at who wins the most games that season and claim they must be the most talented team, but is that really your position? Clemson is clearly the most talented because they win the most? So talent doesn't matter?
Screen Shot 2019-08-31 at 10.41.48 PM.png


www.sbnation.com

Blue-Chip Ratio 2018: 13 teams have title-worthy recruiting

Only 10 percent of the 130 teams in FBS have enough talent to win the natty, according to a recent historical benchmark.
www.sbnation.com www.sbnation.com
 
OriginalGatorHater said:
Leach proves you can be a great coach, but without the horses you can't win big.

It is probably 75% talent 25% Xs and Os. Saban is far from a great Xs and Os guys. Neither is Dabo.
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I disagree.

33.3% talent, 33.3 X’s and O’s, 33.4 % leadership/charisma.

Butch assembled the greatest collection of talent in the history of the game, but it only got one title. The Fiesta Bowl was a cheat job but we left it out in the open for the refs to job us just like the ND fumble.

Coaching is the key factor and it is not close.

Coaching attracts/collects the talent. Coaching develops the talent. Coaching uses properly/misuses the talent.

Coaches determine programs 95% of the time. Few schools are able to attract multiple championship coaches.

What we did in the 80s with THREE head coaches WILL NEVER BE REPEATED. Programs rise or fall with the head coach selection and the list above proves that blue chip ratio is relevant, but overrated.

You need ballers for sure. But more importantly, you need the RIGHT guys as talent. The coach is the one who determines who those right guys are.
 
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OriginalGatorHater said:
Leach proves you can be a great coach, but without the horses you can't win big.

It is probably 75% talent 25% Xs and Os. Saban is far from a great Xs and Os guys. Neither is Dabo.
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Saban is a great x and o coach. Him and bellichik basically created pattern matching back in the day.
 
kryptonite said:
You know what? That's fair. I think being heavy on DL and OL blue chip guys is more important than people realize, and we all agree that Willy is pure garbage.
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He is my favorite of all FSU coaches, with each loss increasing his like ability. I would love banner planes to fly calling for an extension.
 
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Go Canes!! said:
It's a combination of several factors.

But the reality is even the most talented teams in the country don't win it all without an elite quarterback puting them over the top. It's what separates them from the rest of the herd.

If you don't agree just go down the list of past 15 or so champions and find more than one that didn't have a difference maker under center.
Click to expand...

This still comes back to coaching.

Convincing the difference making quarterback to choose your team and creating an environment where his skills are allowed to elevate the team.

It gets screwed up a lot, even with big time talent under center.
 
kryptonite said:
Thanks for paying attention. Since you missed it the first time, here's a second article showing that fsu has a higher blue chip ratio than Clemson.

View attachment 96043

www.sbnation.com

Blue-Chip Ratio 2018: 13 teams have title-worthy recruiting

Only 10 percent of the 130 teams in FBS have enough talent to win the natty, according to a recent historical benchmark.
www.sbnation.com www.sbnation.com
Click to expand...

I'm glad you posted this silly chart, and maybe you'll learn a lesson this time, but if im reading this correctly, how in the **** did clemson even get into the playoffs let alone win it all, man GTFOH with this nonsense chart, that's why the games are actually played, not some nerd recruiting sites trying to tell us who allegedly had the best recruiting class.
 
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TruCane81 said:
I disagree.

33.3% talent, 33.3 X’s and O’s, 33.4 % leadership/charisma.

Butch assembled the greatest collection of talent in the history of the game, but it only got one title. The Fiesta Bowl was a cheat job but we left it out in the open for the refs to job us just like the ND fumble.

Coaching is the key factor and it is not close.

Coaching attracts/collects the talent. Coaching develops the talent. Coaching uses properly/misuses the talent.

Coaches determine programs 95% of the time. Few schools are able to attract multiple championship coaches.

What we did in the 80s with THREE head coaches WILL NEVER BE REPEATED. Programs rise or fall with the head coach selection and the list above proves that blue chip ratio is relevant, but overrated.

You need ballers for sure. But more importantly, you need the RIGHT guys as talent. The coach is the one who determines who those right guys are.
Click to expand...

Ya, but Butch was also one of the worst Xs and Os guys of all time and he was still able to finish 2nd in the nation. The best Xs and Os guys in the world aren't even coming close to 2nd without the talent.

Of course coaches determine the programs. That is not what I am saying. I am saying the recruiting coaches will beat an Xs and Os coach any day of the week and you see it every week in CFB. The teams with the most talent win the vast majority of the times.
 
OriginalGatorHater said:
When was the last time he outcoached a team with even close to the talent he had? Everytime he goes against a team with similar talent he loses like Clemson last year.
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I’ve always thought in some respects that Saban badly, badly underperforms. With the absurd amount of talent that this bagmen/car leasing machine has gathered, Saban really should have won 8 or 9 of the last ten NCs. He really has a young NFL team there, and yet I think he’s only had one undefeated season.
 
TruCane81 said:
This still comes back to coaching.

Convincing the difference making quarterback to choose your team and creating an environment where his skills are allowed to elevate the team.

It gets screwed up a lot, even with big time talent under center.
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Agree it comes down to coaching. Elite coaches get 18-22 year olds to perform at a consistently high level which is pretty **** hard to do.

But at the end of the day, when you mix all those great teams together, the coach with the elite QB walks away with the trophy every year.
 
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