"I Need Ya' Supervisor!!!"

[OriginalGatorHater]

When he calls for a backup they don't just show up in seconds. In the meantime he can't let the perp out of his sight

I am well aware we do not have the ability to teleport. The "perp" was going into the store. He could simply follow him into the store. If he decided to make a break for it then trying to take him down would probably be the best cause of action.

 

[Pb cane]

I am well aware we do not have the ability to teleport. The "perp" was going into the store. He could simply follow him into the store. If he decided to make a break for it then trying to take him down would probably be the best cause of action.

I am well aware we do not have the ability to teleport. The "perp" was going into the store. He could simply follow him into the store. If he decided to make a break for it then trying to take him down would probably be the best cause of action.

I am well aware we do not have the ability to teleport. The "perp" was going into the store. He could simply follow him into the store. If he decided to make a break for it then trying to take him down would probably be the best cause of action.

No the best cause of action for everyone's safety is to try to keep him from entering the store

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

No the best cause of action for everyone's safety is to try to keep him from entering the store

That is 100% bs. The guy was a drunk driver. Outside of his vehicle he was a threat to no one. If the guy became a threat then you treat him as such. He was just a belligerent drunk guy. You call for backup and handle it that way. If the guy ends up becoming a threat then you treat it as such.

 

[duke4heisman]

That is 100% bs. The guy was a drunk driver. Outside of his vehicle he was a threat to no one. If the guy became a threat then you treat him as such. He was just a belligerent drunk guy. You call for backup and handle it that way. If the guy ends up becoming a threat then you treat it as such.

U know I think you're a pretty good dude but I think you have PTSD my friend...lol. Trust me I hate bad cops but that cop wasn't one. He was 100% in the right and went above and beyond to protect that guy, even putting his own life at risk. The second that guy got out of the car, the officer had every right to detain him and as soon as he resisted, the officer had every right to use force. The officer warned him over and over and over again before he tased him. As soon as the guy got up from being tased, he had every right to pull out his service weapon.

 

[duke4heisman]

The officer was certainly more right than wrong while doing his job, but he definitely was NOT 100% right.

Yes, he was. I'm mean FFS the guy was literally wrestling with him even after being tased and the officer didn't even take a swing, use a baton, use pepper spray, nothing. He was more than right, I finally got around to watching the video and I completely agree with the other posters, that guy better be thanking God he's alive.

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

U know I think you're a pretty good dude but I think you have PTSD my friend...lol. Trust me I hate bad cops but that cop wasn't one. He was 100% in the right and went above and beyond to protect that guy, even putting his own life at risk. The second that guy got out of the car, the officer had every right to detain him and as soon as he resisted, the officer had every right to use force. The officer warned him over and over and over again before he tased him. As soon as the guy got up from being tased, he had every right to pull out his service weapon.

I'm not disagreeing that he is lucky to be alive with the way things went down. What I am saying is the dude is obviously wasted. Has this cop never met someone wasted before? Often times they get pushy and they refuse to follow orders. Someone with common sense would think ok, lets get some backup here so when he inevitably starts ******* around we can just slam his ***. Instead this guy decides to do it himself because he knows if I ***** up the takedown I can always blow his head off.

So basically 2 points, yes the player is lucky to be alive, but had the cop used an ounce of common sense he wouldn't have been in that situation to begin with.

And I'll say this too. If the guy fears for his life everytime he sees a big drunk guy not following orders he shouldn't have got into law enforcement. He should have been a garbage man or another job that doesn't require you to deal with people like that.

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

Now you’re being overly dramatic. He did not have a chance to use a baton, use pepper spray, take a swing…

The officer almost got himself killed because of the mistakes the officer made. That’s not 100% right, that’s luck. The safest thing was to wait for backup.

The funny thing is everyone keeps saying "The officer feared for his life" " he almost got himself killed". The player was literally just pushing him. He wasn't swinging on him and he wasn't trying to kill him. Everything he was doing was defensive, which is a pretty normal reaction from a wasted individual who is getting tackled/tazed. I would bet every dollar I have ever made that if the NFL player ended up on top of this officer he would not have "ended his life".

 

[duke4heisman]

Now you’re being overly dramatic. He did not have a chance to use a baton, use pepper spray, take a swing…

The officer almost got himself killed because of the mistakes the officer made. That’s not 100% right, that’s luck. The safest thing was to wait for backup.

He couldn't let the walk in the store while he just sits outside and waits for back up. Lulz, and he could have easily reached for any other of those things as soon as the guy started to get up, it's right on his belt. He also could have used force on the guy when he had him almost on the ground, right before the female officer came in.

 

[duke4heisman]

I'm not disagreeing that he is lucky to be alive with the way things went down. What I am saying is the dude is obviously wasted. Has this cop never met someone wasted before? Often times they get pushy and they refuse to follow orders. Someone with common sense would think ok, lets get some backup here so when he inevitably starts ******* around we can just slam his ***. Instead this guy decides to do it himself because he knows if I ***** up the takedown I can always blow his head off.

So basically 2 points, yes the player is lucky to be alive, but had the cop used an ounce of common sense he wouldn't have been in that situation to begin with.

And I'll say this too. If the guy fears for his life everytime he sees a big drunk guy not following orders he shouldn't have got into law enforcement. He should have been a garbage man or another job that doesn't require you to deal with people like that.

I agree with the way you presented it but the guy got out of the car and started to walk away, that's when everything changed.

 

[duke4heisman]

The funny thing is everyone keeps saying "The officer feared for his life" " he almost got himself killed". The player was literally just pushing him. He wasn't swinging on him and he wasn't trying to kill him. Everything he was doing was defensive, which is a pretty normal reaction from a wasted individual who is getting tackled/tazed. I would bet every dollar I have ever made that if the NFL player ended up on top of this officer he would not have "ended his life".

Bro cops have to cautious with everyone. He had no idea who that guy was and what he was doing or if he had a weapon. Just because he was drunk doesn't change that or his actions.

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

I agree with the way you presented it but the guy got out of the car and started to walk away, that's when everything changed.

He wasn't doing anything threatening though. I understand cops like to think that they have the right to murder anyone that disobeys any orders they demand or if they say something offensive to them. And I guess technically they do have the right since they get away with it the vast majority of the time. However, someone with the correct amount of chromosomes could quickly realize a drunk guy moving at a snails pace into the store asking for a supervisor is not an immediate threat that needs to be put down immediately. You could literally just go into the store and wait for the extra cops to show up.

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

Bro cops have to cautious with everyone. He had no idea who that guy was and what he was doing or if he had a weapon. Just because he was drunk doesn't change that or his actions.

And being cautious would have been to wait for backup. Not try and tackle him by himself. The guy was the opposite of cautious in regards to both of their lives. Not only that, but its not like being a cop is some super risky job. The vast majority of cops that are killed are killed in car accidents or the like. Barely any get murdered each year. Especially in a wealthy town like that cop was in. I bet the last cop in that town that was murdered was during prohibition.

 

[duke4heisman]

He wasn't doing anything threatening though. I understand cops like to think that they have the right to murder anyone that disobeys any orders they demand or if they say something offensive to them. And I guess technically they do have the right since they get away with it the vast majority of the time. However, someone with the correct amount of chromosomes could quickly realize a drunk guy moving at a snails pace into the store asking for a supervisor is not an immediate threat that needs to be put down immediately. You could literally just go into the store and wait for the extra cops to show up.

That's not reality in any state, my guy. The law is law, this isn't a customer demanding a supervisor at a retail market. This is an officer of the law and the guy was defiant from jump. No one can just disregard an officer that's just asking for liscense and registration and walk away to wait for supervisor. He could've ran out the back door, used the cover of the store to pull out a weapon and turn around to use it on him and take off.

 

[duke4heisman]

Now you’re just making things up to fit your narrative. When the guy got at the very first time to go in the store, the officer was behind him the entire time and was in no position to actually coffee and or prevent him from going in the store based on his size. Again, he lost his temper, and it cost him to make mistakes that could have gotten himself killed, not just McDowell. At no time was he in a position to use lethal force without McDowell preventing him and I think even he knew McDowell was not a “violent” threat. Newsflash: unfortunately it’s not uncommon for officers to have to wrestle people who may not mean them physical harm.

Now you’re just making things up to fit your narrative. When the guy got at the very first time to go in the store, the officer was behind him the entire time and was in no position to actually coffee and or prevent him from going in the store based on his size. Again, he lost his temper, and it cost him to make mistakes that could have gotten himself killed, not just McDowell. At no time was he in a position to use lethal force without McDowell preventing him and I think even he knew McDowell was not a “violent” threat. Newsflash: unfortunately it’s not uncommon for officers to have to wrestle people who may not mean them physical harm.

I don't have a narrative, trust me. I know the law. That guy was an absolute moron and he should be glad he wasn't shot. Anyway, I'm out.

 

[OriginalGatorHater]

That's not reality in any state, my guy. The law is law, this isn't a customer demanding a supervisor at a retail market. This is an officer of the law and the guy was defiant from jump. No one can just disregard an officer that's just asking for liscense and registration and walk away to wait for supervisor. He could've ran out the back door, used the cover of the store to pull out a weapon and turn around to use it on him and take off.

I am not talking about what the books say. I am talking about what a fully functioning human would do in a certain situation. Just because the law says something doesn't make it the logical choice.

In some places you can kill people for stepping on your property. If I was in that position I wouldn't just start picking people off if they come on my property. I would use my brain and assess the situation. Even if I was protected by the law.

 

[tcgrad1014]

"I'm being man-handled by the black version of Andre the Giant who has proven to be impervious to being tased, send backup."

"We'll send our best female officer right away."

 

[duke4heisman]

Clearly you missed the post where someone who claim to be an officer said that the officers first mistake was that he allowed him to get back into his car we could’ve had a weapon there. Just face it, the officer made mistakes. Thankfully, neither he nor McDowell had to pay for those mistakes with their lives.

That I understand but the officer is supposed to keep them inside the vehicle. However, I agree once he was out, the officer should have told him to keep his hands where he could see them and get his license and registration, etc.

 

[Silver King]

Just like Perry is going to have to show me he has command of the play book, can read a defense and audible out of a bad play before I'll agree with anyone he should be crowned starter; I'd also like to see what some of you would do in that profession, dealing with drunk beligernt idiots, street corner lawyers, and hardened, repeat criminal offenders, 24-7. All the time worried about who'se going to pull out a gun and make your wife a widow and your kids fatherless.

Everybody seems to be an expert on threat assesment and how to show restraint. Particularly when you can take your time to think about it and provide your opinion from a keyboard. **** most of this board can't go a half dozen posts without breaking bad on someone.

**** happens really quick in real time - officers are trained to react - but like anybody else, sometimes their self preservation gene kicks in. And no I'm not a cop. But I've been a yacht captain boarded an awful lot at night back in the wild 80s and 90s off South Florida, USCG and DEA boarding crews came aboard hot: Riot shotguns, M-16s, sidearms drawn. A few of those 20 year old kids came aboard with that wide-eyed Sonny Crocket Miami Vice look, he used to get just before shooting - it makes you a little nervous. You learn to react in a certain way in a hurry, and older captains warned me about that - get it over with, if you have a problem, do it with the USCG Group afterwards. I even had a guy chip the paint coming alongside after a $50,000 paint job that boss hadn't even seen yet. I just politly asked him to note it in the boarding report.

 

[BoxingRobes]

Just like Perry is going to have to show me he has command of the play book, can read a defense and audible out of a bad play before I'll agree with anyone he should be crowned starter; I'd also like to see what some of you would do in that profession, dealing with drunk beligernt idiots, street corner lawyers, and hardened, repeat criminal offenders, 24-7. All the time worried about who'se going to pull out a gun and make your wife a widow and your kids fatherless.

Everybody seems to be an expert on threat assesment and how to show restraint. Particularly when you can take your time to think about it and provide your opinion from a keyboard. **** most of this board can't go a half dozen posts without breaking bad on someone.

**** happens really quick in real time - officers are trained to react - but like anybody else, sometimes their self preservation gene kicks in. And no I'm not a cop. But I've been a yacht captain boarded an awful lot at night back in the wild 80s and 90s off South Florida, USCG and DEA boarding crews came aboard hot: Riot shotguns, M-16s, sidearms drawn. You learn to react in a certain way in a hurry, and older captains warned me about that - get it over with, if you have a problem, do it with the USCG Group afterwards. I even had a guy chip the paint coming alongside after a $50,000 paint job that boos hadn;t even seen yet. I just politly asked him to note it in the boarding report.

Nothing you said is wrong...but...that is what police officers get paid to do. If you can't do the job, don't do the job.

Someone else in this thread said that police just need to be judged like other professionals when they make mistakes or if there is some misconduct. There have been around 4,000 police shootings since 2010 (quick glance on wiki...tifwiw)...and a lot of the more public, divisive shootings have not shown a lot of accountability toward the officers. The perception is that police act with near immunity outside of egregious, willful, wanton, and malicious behavior that is caught dead to rights.

As mentioned earlier...looking at these cases isolated always ends up with nitpicking what the officer did and very rarely will a group come to a consensus. But it does blow my mind that people can't see the trends and understand that maybe...just maybe...there needs to be some reform inside the police departments across America.

 

[Silver King]

Nothing you said is wrong...but...that is what police officers get paid to do. If you can't do the job, don't do the job.

Someone else in this thread said that police just need to be judged like other professionals when they make mistakes or if there is some misconduct. There have been around 4,000 police shootings since 2010 (quick glance on wiki...tifwiw)...and a lot of the more public, divisive shootings have not shown a lot of accountability toward the officers. The perception is that police act with near immunity outside of egregious, willful, wanton, and malicious behavior that is caught dead to rights.

As mentioned earlier...looking at these cases isolated always ends up with nitpicking what the officer did and very rarely will a group come to a consensus. But it does blow my mind that people can't see the trends and understand that maybe...just maybe...there needs to be some reform inside the police departments across America.

Are you suggesting there hasn't been reform? Did you see the restraint those two officers showed with that guy trying so desperately trying to commit "suicide by Cop", they were begging him. That happens an awful lot in those police shooting statistics, I know of a couple in my small town.

Reform? You mean like dash and vest cameras, more training protocols - been staedily increasing in an steadily decreasing environment. I have a son who is a FF/Paramedic. They go through Nracan (opioid overdose reversal) like aspirin some shifts. The people lying unconsicence, sometimes not even breathing when they arrived, wake-up wanting to fight because they ruined their buzz.

You're right, they have a job and they need to do that job for Public Safety (us) - you can't very often coddle criminally violent, drugged or mentally ill people (Partcilularly not knowing which or what combination) into a completely safe conclusion every time. If you're going to go there, you're going to have people throw it right back at you, that most of these shootings start after "noncompliance." It's the chicken and egg argument; you want to be a lawyer go to law school, otherwise why make it worse, and maybe endanger yourself by trying it during a high risk situation?

Again, I'm not in their shoes, but not so sure I'd have let that guy in the "Suicide by Cop" video get that close to me.