"I Need Ya' Supervisor!!!"

Moonman

The Total Package
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202
The same way they issue a citation for running a red light with a camera at the traffic stop...by the plate information. Not the owner of the car?...just like in the aforementioned scenario...the owner of the automobile is responsible for the driver...he can pay it himself or submit the drivers information to the city the name and contact information so they can forward that citation to him.

There doesn't need to be an interaction or conflict. The police officer doesn't need to know who is in the car specifically. Here is your citation by plate number. Bye.
Nvm. This thread will go nowhere. You'll continue to defend your opinion even when proven ludicrous. Nothing will change your mind.

Have a nice life.
 

Cane_lover

Recruit
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Dec 1, 2014
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175
Well, the first officer said nothing of it and did not proceed at any point like it was a DUI arrest. So, again, idk why this is currently relevant to the interaction presented.
Did the officer ever have a chance to get there? He was busy trying to get his license and registration.
 

BoxingRobes

Junior
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
4,153
Nvm. This thread will go nowhere. You'll continue to defend your opinion even when proven ludicrous. Nothing will change your mind.

Have a nice life.
or, fail to understand the systemic and contextual issues presented and more sh!t like this will happen...many incidents turning out a lot worse for all parties involved.

Blue Lives Matter. I get it. But there are reasons why interactions end like this. You can keep pointing your finger at the perp. I'm not pointing my finger at either party...but this incident ended poorly for both individuals and it could have ended up a lot worse for both.
 

Moonman

The Total Package
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Jul 18, 2017
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202
The car of the incident in question was not stolen.
You're right that was a month later.

"In April, a stolen truck’s GPS unit was traced to a closed garage at McDowell’s residence. McDowell claimed he had purchased the $74,000 Ford F-150 Raptor pickup for $3,000 off the street. The truck is one of several to be stolen from a Ford Motor Company overflow lot in Dearborn."
 

ThomasM

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Jul 9, 2014
Messages
9,585
or, fail to understand the systemic and contextual issues presented and more sh!t like this will happen...many incidents turning out a lot worse for all parties involved.

Blue Lives Matter. I get it. But there are reasons why interactions end like this. You can keep pointing your finger at the perp. I'm not pointing my finger at either party...but this incident ended poorly for both individuals and it could have ended up a lot worse for both.
If you can't point a finger at the guy doing wrong, when can you?
 

Moonman

The Total Package
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or, fail to understand the systemic and contextual issues presented and more sh!t like this will happen...many incidents turning out a lot worse for all parties involved.

Blue Lives Matter. I get it. But there are reasons why interactions end like this. You can keep pointing your finger at the perp. I'm not pointing my finger at either party...but this incident ended poorly for both individuals and it could have ended up a lot worse for both.
Ok then let's discuss the systemic and contextual issues. Go.
 

BoxingRobes

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Ok then let's discuss the systemic and contextual issues. Go.
This thread has already been exhausted with Blue Lives Matter v. Black Lives Matter.

That is a discussion we can have another day and not in this thread. As long as you can acknowledge there are systemic issues within the interaction between police and the general population, in particular African Americans, I think we can just leave it at that. CanesInsight is not going to solve this problem and none of us are getting paid to fix it. But, we should at least be able to say there are some issues here.
 

Cane_lover

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175
I don't know what your race is...and its not important. But, statistics show that (depending on the study...I don't want to get in the deep end of minutiae of this discussion) that at least one out of every three African Americans have no trust in police officers at all. Without checking for a specific link, to my best recollection, its something like three out of four African Americans believe police will wrongly arrest them. If you're a police officer, and you don't understand the context of the situation, you've already fucked up. That little white officer confronting a 6'6" black man is a recipe for disaster before they are even introduced to one another.

If you don't think race is an issue at the foundation of this discussion, then we can't have a discussion because we are going to disagree throughout. Malik McDowell's actions look like a dude that was in fear for his life. Asking for another officer to be there, getting up and walking into the store (likely because he's not a dummy and knows there will be a camera in there). The police officer tased a man that was on the ground showing his hands...if you're a 6'6" black man, you know whats coming next.

I'm not saying what McDowell did was right...he's not. But that doesn't mean the police officer should not have approached and communicated to the man differently. That isn't to say that the officer is in the wrong either...but if he's "the boss" in that situation, perhaps he should have done better de-escalate the situation. As I said in an earlier post...its a sh!tty situation for both individuals involved here.
Is there a chart that clearly identifies height/weight/race for officers to use so that they know who they can/can’t pull over? Maybe they could use the QB wristbands and just keep the chart on them at all times. Or maybe, just maybe, they could pull people over regardless of race, height, or weight that are breaking the law and hold them accountable for their actions.

I think a citizen that is refusing to comply with a police officer and walking into a store is a red flag. What are their intentions in the store? Now you have someone who won’t comply walking into a store with innocent bystanders? Seems like McDowell should learn to give his license and registration to me.
 

BoxingRobes

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4,153
Is there a chart that clearly identifies height/weight/race for officers to use so that they know who they can/can’t pull over? Maybe they could use the QB wristbands and just keep the chart on them at all times. Or maybe, just maybe, they could pull people over regardless of race, height, or weight that are breaking the law and hold them accountable for their actions.

I think a citizen that is refusing to comply with a police officer and walking into a store is a red flag. What are their intentions in the store? Now you have someone who won’t comply walking into a store with innocent bystanders? Seems like McDowell should learn to give his license and registration to me.
Sounds great in a world where something like this doesn't exist. I hate to use Vox, but whatever.

 

Moonman

The Total Package
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202
As long as you can acknowledge there are systemic issues within the interaction between police and the general population, in particular African Americans,
I need to know what I'm acknowledging. I'm not trying to play gotcha games. I interact in an official capacity with law enforcement every single day. As a member of a combat arms unit in the military, I have several brothers in arms who are LEO. I have immediate family who are LEO. I want to understand what the issues are because they directly affect many of the people I love. So, what are we talking about?
 

BoxingRobes

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I need to know what I'm acknowledging. I'm not trying to play gotcha games. I interact in an official capacity with law enforcement every single day. As a member of a combat arms unit in the military, I have several brothers in arms who are LEO. I have immediate family who are LEO. I want to understand what the issues are because they directly affect many of the people I love. So, what are we talking about?
Police training in nonviolent situations - in this particular situation the OP presents...the officer lost the high ground the minute he pulled the trigger on that taser on a man who was sitting down showing his hands. It turned a nonviolent situation into a violent one that was dangerous for all parties. I don't blame the officer so much as I do the training and procedure.

Uniformity in standards for "brutality"
Minimal consequences for misconduct
Minorities targeted at higher rates
Culturally...police are less servants of the public, more militarized - extend this to police not being active in the neighborhoods in which they live
Unreported misconduct by police -- https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/181312.pdf

A quick blog by a former officer that acknowledges issues -- https://www.aclu.org/blog/criminal-law-reform/reforming-police-practices/honoring-police-includes-acknowledging-systemic

This could be a much longer discussion...I'm just going to stop there.
 
Last edited:

PCBcanefan

99 problems but FSU ain’t 1
Joined
Sep 13, 2016
Messages
646
Bruh, I see/saw all of that. I do not want police officers dying for doing their job. I’m just saying that he could’ve waited; made the situation safer for an arrest. McDowell could’ve killed him. And, I believe it happened because he was pissed McDowell left his car. I’m just saying there was no “obvious” danger in McDowell entering the store.
How does the officer know there is no obvious danger when entering the store? Or how do you know? He doesn't know who he is at the time, and also doesn't know what he will do or is capable of doing. He goes into the store and to me that can easily escalate the situation. One, he is now out of your site for a moment of time and back is turned. Can easily pull a weapon out. Two, now there can possibly be more innocent people involved in the situation. The LEO doesn't know his plan for entering the store, for all he knows he could be looking for hostages. Three, now he would be letting the alleged criminal feel like they are in control of the situation, which could turn out to be real bad for the LEO.

The thing is, it was probably going to be simple citation for speeding or unsafe driving due to road conditions. Why did he have to act a fool and escalate the situation? Should of handed over his info, paid his ticket and continued on with his life.
 

PCBcanefan

99 problems but FSU ain’t 1
Joined
Sep 13, 2016
Messages
646
Police training in nonviolent situations - in this particular situation the OP presents...the officer lost the high ground the minute he pulled the trigger on that taser on a man who was sitting down showing his hands. It turned a nonviolent situation into a violent one that was dangerous for all parties. I don't blame the officer so much as I do the training and procedure.

Uniformity in standards for "brutality"
Minimal consequences for misconduct
Minorities targeted at higher rates
Culturally...police are less servants of the public, more militarized - extend this to police not being active in the neighborhoods in which they live
Unreported misconduct by police -- https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/181312.pdf

A quick blog by a former officer that acknowledges issues -- https://www.aclu.org/blog/criminal-law-reform/reforming-police-practices/honoring-police-includes-acknowledging-systemic

This could be a much longer discussion...I'm just going to stop there.
Wasn't it violent already, since he was sitting on the ground after wrestling with the LEO?
 

Moonman

The Total Package
Joined
Jul 18, 2017
Messages
202
Police training in nonviolent situations - in this particular situation the OP presents...the officer lost the high ground the minute he pulled the trigger on that taser on a man who was sitting down showing his hands. It turned a nonviolent situation into a violent one that was dangerous for all parties. I don't blame the officer so much as I do the training and procedure.

Uniformity in standards for "brutality"
Minimal consequences for misconduct
Minorities targeted at higher rates
Culturally...police are less servants of the public, more militarized - extend this to police not being active in the neighborhoods in which they live
Unreported misconduct by police -- https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/181312.pdf

A quick blog by a former officer that acknowledges issues -- https://www.aclu.org/blog/criminal-law-reform/reforming-police-practices/honoring-police-includes-acknowledging-systemic

This could be a much longer discussion...I'm just going to stop there.
I read the links you posted and there are several points we would agree on.

Specifically this quote from Stamper...in reference to the drug war.

"For the past half century, local cops have served as foot soldiers in an armed conflict against their neighbors, especially low-income people and communities of color."
 
Joined
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4,355
What was the point of asking for a supervisor right away like that? If McDowell was cooperative he probably wouldnt even have gotten a ticket.

At the end of the day he’s responsible for his actions.
 
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