Here is a stat that will surprise some people

Laziest **** in sports. Puppeting that John Madden/Matt Millen garbage makes every fan feel like a genius. Throw out a few “you win in the trenches” and you’re a football scientist.
I said the OL was horrible many times last year until it really sunk in how obvious it was to the other team what we were about to do.

I think you pointed out the absurdity of Malik Rosier suddenly not able to complete a pass, of any length. It’s flat out impossible to be talent related.

It really was that bad. I didn’t want to push too much blame in one direction....but by the end of the season it was just in plain sight.
 
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how many are those guys elite? would like to see the top 5 teams numbers on pro bowlers and stuff like that, I know i wont search for it but someone will

I would bet not many. The best guy Miami has had our OL since 2000 is Mckinnie and he was only a 1x pro bowler. Flowers was good at Miami too and I don't even need to tell you how trash he was in the NFL.
 
I would bet not many. The best guy Miami has had our OL since 2000 is Mckinnie and he was only a 1x pro bowler. Flowers was good at Miami too and I don't even need to tell you how trash he was in the NFL.

Linder is the highest paid center in NFL history. Bryant McKinnie and Chris Myers made Pro Bowls.

By comparison, Alabama has only produced one Pro Bowl OL since 2002 (Evan Mathis).

We aren’t OL U. That’s Wisconsin or Iowa. But our front-line talent is miles ahead of what people think.
 
Linder is the highest paid center in NFL history. Bryant McKinnie and Chris Myers made Pro Bowls.

By comparison, Alabama has only produced one Pro Bowl OL since 2002 (Evan Mathis).

We aren’t OL U. That’s Wisconsin or Iowa. But our front-line talent is miles ahead of what people think.

I never mentioned salary. I never compared us to Bama. I just answered Ds question. You expanded on it by informing me that Chris Myers made 2 pro bowls. So to answers Ds question Myers has made 2 pro bowls and McKinnie has made 1. Thanks.
 
Our most dominant line ever (2001) didn't do much in the pros. Sherko was a CFL guy. Bibla lasted three years, Gonzalez lasted four years, Romberg lasted five years. The only consistent starter was McKinnie. They overachieved in college.

By comparison, look at our 2013 line. Brandon Linder is the highest paid center in NFL history. Ereck Flowers, while extremely disappointing, has started 55 games and he's still 24 years old. Seantrel Henderson has started 28 games despite a ton of injuries and just signed a 1-year, $4.5 million extension. Feliciano started four games last year.

Talent is not the issue. It's been development and scheme.
Are you really suggesting that talent on OL hasnt been an issue the past few years? Does depth count, also. Even on your numbers, it’s one nfl lineman a year for 18 years. The other four guys plus the first three off the bench, they have not been good enough for most of that time, amd are not good enough now.

All these stats, they’re quirky interesting, but tend to support a false narrative, imo. Sure, coaching and development have stunk. That’s why we’re on our 5th coach in 17 years. But that is not all that has stunk. Recruiting discussions aside, our depth and roster balance and LOS strength have been awful during most of the past two decades. Roster holes, wasted spots, etc. Please do not tell me that Jahair Jones and Hayden Mahoney should be in our front five against LSU.

The truth is our lines have not been anywhere near as good as Alabama’s the past decade, and the truth is the reason is not solely coaching. Maybe the nfl stat is just misleading here. Maybe college performance is the question. Maybe our weakest links have been atrocious.
 
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Linder is the highest paid center in NFL history. Bryant McKinnie and Chris Myers made Pro Bowls.

By comparison, Alabama has only produced one Pro Bowl OL since 2002 (Evan Mathis).

We aren’t OL U. That’s Wisconsin or Iowa. But our front-line talent is miles ahead of what people think.
You like to cite that. How many all pro seasons does he have?

The money thing is spin here. He’s not the best center in nfl history, thats for sure. Why talk money with linder and pro bowls with mckinnie?
 
Pro bowl is popularity maybe PFF grades.

Here's PFF's grades for 2018 out of 314 OL

Linder - 31
Flowers - 102
Henderson - 119
Isidora - 235
Feliciano - 268

If you go by 5 starting OL x 32 teams = 160 starters, then....

Elite - Linder
Solid Starters - Flowers, Henderson
Backups - Isidora, Feliciano
 
Our OL talent has been sub par for most of the last 20 years.

OL talent includes all the guys, not just that 1 guy who goes to the nfl.

Our front 5 has had weak links and our next 3 has been weak and our depth behind them non-existent too often.

The logic of this thread has persisted in our fan base since 2002. Talent isnt the issue, guys, it’s all coaching.

I have been saying the same thing since Coker. It’s BOTH. Talent and coaching. And has been since Coker.

We have one title in almost 30 years, and that was with 19 first round picks on the team. We have had many, many deficiencies.
 
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Offensive linemen are the weakest athletes on the team next to kickers so it's not shocking that many of the very effective pumped-up college overachieving types do not make it in the NFL and often aren't drafted. That goes back to the Osborne Nebraska team and earlier. I remember following Oklahoma in the '70s during the awesome wishbone era with 400 to 500 yards rushing per game as norm. They had some linemen picked late in the 17 round draft but rarely if ever had an elite pick.

Likewise with current Alabama and Wisconsin. Those are terrific collegiate offensive lines but they devote years to shaping themselves into the proper size and strength for the position, often maxed out as collegians. Wisconsin just had one of its long time starters at offensive line retire due to injuries.

I'm a bit more surprised at Stanford. They have had some very highly rated recruits at offensive line, 4 and 5 star players. But it is a recent development and may not translate to those numbers yet. Besides, as I mentioned last season David Shaw doesn't know what he wants to do on offense any more. Everyone sticks to an image of Stanford aa a blue collar I formation running team but they had the second fewest rushing attempts per game of any team in the nation in 2018, ahead of only Mike Leach.

The Canes have plenty of guys who are obviously talented enough but they aren't in ideal shape and we never have an identity that features them. It has been hodge podge offense for a decade or more. Normally I scoff at the notion of not developing players fully enough, but it is certainly true at offensive line. Often I'll see a guy who looks good as a sophomore and then he looks identical as a senior, if not worse.
 
Here's PFF's grades for 2018 out of 314 OL

Linder - 31
Flowers - 102
Henderson - 119
Isidora - 235
Feliciano - 268

If you go by 5 starting OL x 32 teams = 160 starters, then....

Elite - Linder
Solid Starters - Flowers, Henderson
Backups - Isidora, Feliciano

LMFAO at Flowers being 102. I watched every Giants game this year and Flowers was the biggest liability on the OL. Eli got MUCH more time in the pocket the second we got rid of Flowers.
 
Offensive linemen are the weakest athletes on the team next to kickers so it's not shocking that many of the very effective pumped-up college overachieving types do not make it in the NFL and often aren't drafted. That goes back to the Osborne Nebraska team and earlier. I remember following Oklahoma in the '70s during the awesome wishbone era with 400 to 500 yards rushing per game as norm. They had some linemen picked late in the 17 round draft but rarely if ever had an elite pick.

Likewise with current Alabama and Wisconsin. Those are terrific collegiate offensive lines but they devote years to shaping themselves into the proper size and strength for the position, often maxed out as collegians. Wisconsin just had one of its long time starters at offensive line retire due to injuries.

I'm a bit more surprised at Stanford. They have had some very highly rated recruits at offensive line, 4 and 5 star players. But it is a recent development and may not translate to those numbers yet. Besides, as I mentioned last season David Shaw doesn't know what he wants to do on offense any more. Everyone sticks to an image of Stanford aa a blue collar I formation running team but they had the second fewest rushing attempts per game of any team in the nation in 2018, ahead of only Mike Leach.

The Canes have plenty of guys who are obviously talented enough but they aren't in ideal shape and we never have an identity that features them. It has been hodge podge offense for a decade or more. Normally I scoff at the notion of not developing players fully enough, but it is certainly true at offensive line. Often I'll see a guy who looks good as a sophomore and then he looks identical as a senior, if not worse.

What do you mean offensive lineman are the weakest athletes? They are arguably the strongest guy son the field. Do you mean they are the least athletic guys on the field? If so that is also false. They are the slowest yes, but pack 160 on Hill and he won't be blazing the 40 either. These guys are ridiculously athletic to be able to move how they do at that weight/height.
 
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LMFAO at Flowers being 102. I watched every Giants game this year and Flowers was the biggest liability on the OL. Eli got MUCH more time in the pocket the second we got rid of Flowers.
The reason why Flowers rated decently is due to his run blocking which is upper echelon type. He is still only 24 yo and maybe a change of scenery will help. No question about his talent.
 
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What do you mean offensive lineman are the weakest athletes? They are arguably the strongest guy son the field. Do you mean they are the least athletic guys on the field? If so that is also false. They are the slowest yes, but pack 160 on Hill and he won't be blazing the 40 either. These guys are ridiculously athletic to be able to move how they do at that weight/height.
It looks lime he meant least athletic. For you to dispute that, you’ll have to tell us which other position group is less athletic than OL.
 
Linder is the highest paid center in NFL history. Bryant McKinnie and Chris Myers made Pro Bowls.

By comparison, Alabama has only produced one Pro Bowl OL since 2002 (Evan Mathis).

We aren’t OL U. That’s Wisconsin or Iowa. But our front-line talent is miles ahead of what people think.
Linder is great, yea your right our talent is great we just havent got the right coach to help the OL. I wouldnt be surprised we see a brand new OL in terms of play and everyone will have the Doc Rivers face like wtf happened. These guys we got can be a real good College OL, we just need the coaches to help them with better play calling/scheme and better S/C.
 
And while we are shattering stereotypes, let me throw this one out:

We have had 13 OL drafted since 2004. Ten of them (77%) have been from South Florida.
Im like amazed by this, thinking to myself wtf is going on y cant we win
 
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