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From Another Coach: Manny's Problem

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nycane said:
I said to my friend laSt night. They like him but don’t fear him.
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Just like Coker.

Coaches either need to be loved to the point a kid would run through a wall for someone (Pete Carroll) or have a sense of respect or fear to get in line. I don't feel coaches can be a buddy buddy laid back quiet coach and regularly succeed in college. Yeah things might be fine when you're winning but the moment you struggle or lose, those kids will tune you out or turn on you. They need structure and accountability because they haven't learned how to be a professional yet. The best programs out there run their programs like a pro business.

Manny doesn't hold his players accountable on the field. He doesn't hold the refs accountable in game. He hasn't always held his coaches accountable. I like the guy and like the players he's bringing in this year BUT i have serious concerns about the long-term health of the program if he doesn't learn the culture/accountability piece, which starts with the coaches, needs to be much much better than it currently is.

That Clemson team played HARD. Those guys flew around the field with relentless pursuit....putting it on the line for team, not just "me" or "draft stats". The guys in the trenches were warriors. Those LBs took on lineman and blew plays up. They played really good assignment football with great fundamentals and technique (especially tackling). That culture at Clemson is top notch right now.
 
PSU Cane said:
Just like Coker.

Coaches either need to be loved to the point a kid would run through a wall for someone (Pete Carroll) or have a sense of respect or fear to get in line. I don't feel coaches can be a buddy buddy laid back quiet coach and regularly succeed in college. Yeah things might be fine when you're winning but the moment you struggle or lose, those kids will tune you out or turn on you. They need structure and accountability because they haven't learned how to be a professional yet. The best programs out there run their programs like a pro business.

Manny doesn't hold his players accountable on the field. He doesn't hold the refs accountable in game. He hasn't always held his coaches accountable. I like the guy and like the players he's bringing in this year BUT i have serious concerns about the long-term health of the program if he doesn't learn the culture/accountability piece, which starts with the coaches, needs to be much much better than it currently is.

That Clemson team played HARD. Those guys flew around the field with relentless pursuit....putting it on the line for team, not just "me" or "draft stats". The guys in the trenches were warriors. Those LBs took on lineman and blew plays up. They played really good assignment football with great fundamentals and technique (especially tackling). That culture at Clemson is top notch right now.
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Great post
 
canesmang1 said:
you Mean like taking Jeff Thomas, Cleveland reed and jarren Williams back after they all quit on the team is a bad quality in a head coach???
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And don't leave out the worst part, he actually named one of the quitters a starter, and tried to force feed him to the team as the "unquestioned leader, he named 2 out of those 3 starters, this is another reason some guys left earlier than they should've, they saw it coming!
 
Mr. Dynasty1 said:
Kid from Clemson got a penalty said something to Dabo or made gesture, Dabo took that *** out promptly. We reward dropped passes, misreads, penalties, etc...with more playing time. Its crazy
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I guess the real question is whether or not Dabo would have put out second stringer in.
 
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Mr. Dynasty1 said:
Kid from Clemson got a penalty said something to Dabo or made gesture, Dabo took that *** out promptly. We reward dropped passes, misreads, penalties, etc...with more playing time. Its crazy
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Yep, 5 star LT got called for his second holding penalty. Said something to Swinney and he was pulled.

Must be nice to have the depth to have those teaching moments.
 
canesmang1 said:
you Mean like taking Jeff Thomas, Cleveland reed and jarren Williams back after they all quit on the team is a bad quality in a head coach???
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Saban was losing to Louisiana Monroe and took a suspended player out of the stands and told him to suit up. But that was before he had a roster full of 5 star freshman.
It’s easy to be a bad *** when you are 3 deep with studs.

I was wondering why Xavier Thomas wasn’t playing after looking really good. He’s riding the bench cause Murphy is a stud freshman who is better.
We still have a problem with upperclassmen not being scared of the dudes behind them cause there is no one there
We have a problem with divas bouncing as soon as they get passed up. And I think this is the reason why pope and Harley are still trying to catch passes as starters.

TheRe we’re ruMors of pope transferring last year and here he is getting reps and doing nothing. idk if this staff is trying to be more patient or loyal to the local kids to prove a point or we legit have a room of freshman that suck.
So While a 5 star like Thomas has no problem backing up a freshman, our program gives off the appearance that they get worried that any upperclassmen is quick to transfer if he doesn’t start.
Here we were 2 years ago bashing cmr cause pope wasn’t getting reps over cager and berries despite knowing that he had no problem starting AR82 as a freshman. The reason AR started was cause he was a **** stud. It’s obvious we don’t have that guy on this team.
I doubt this staff is so dumb that it won’t start a dude over a 5’9 mile Harley who drops passes and can’t get open unless some play is called to make him wide open so we can all pray he catches it.
Lashlee has no one on this roster anywhere as good as The duo of Roberson or Proche he had at smu . If he did they would be starting .
 
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That sure could be a part of it. My experience was only playing for coaches who coached with that hard-edged element that made you fear failure. Consequently I was on the best teams at every level I played. My High School Coach, Fred Goldsmith sent a dozen of us off to play college because of it. He went on to be a two-time NCAA Coach of the Year (Rice and Duke).

He applied for the Canes job when Coker left. I can assure you, those guys who took those penalties, they would have been pulled from the game and dreading Monday and the opportunities that awaited them - actually, the way they played, the whole team would. It doesn't take as many sessions as you might think before you get through to players. He inherited a 1-9 program and turned it around to a winning season then making the State Semi-final game in two seasons - did by intensity.

In HS we got back from Belle Glade at 2 am after not performing to his expectations and he made us get dressed and hit the practice field. I saw some drills like tying a fight back dummy around a guy who missed a two-a-day - blow the whistle and send him with a ball one way or the other, against the entire First Defense (No other offensive players on the field and there was a future All-State MLB, DT and an OLB who made the FHSAA's Top 100 HS players list and was the only rookie starter in Super Bowl X for the Cowboys). Coach warned them the whistle didn't blow until every defender hit him - that might get a coach arrested with today's players. He went three times, knocked him silly, and not a single person missed a practice for any reason they rest of my HS years.

Clemson's players were jawing pretty good, getting under Miami's skin. But I saw a couple of shoves by Miami and before the Clemson guy responded one of their team leaders was policing him up. That's one of the many small details of why they live around the #1 address in college football. You can say that for the other three or four teams as well.
RedSquare said:
one college head coach told me:

"manny is a smart guy and a hard worker. definitely dedicated to running a good program, and always thinking. his problem though is he tries to be friends with everyone. the twitter stuff, having his kids like him, which they do. that's a big thing with him. BUT, they aren't afraid of him enough. with my kids, i keep the right amount of distance to keep them afraid. enough of a distance where i can make sure that fear of me is always there, and they know it's real and they could always be benched, chewed out, kicked off the team, just cause i say so. manny doesn't have that, or at least, he needs more of it."
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pacusmc said:
Saban was losing to Louisiana Monroe and took a suspended player out of the stands and told him to suit up. But that was before he had a roster full of 5 star freshman.
It’s easy to be a bad *** when you are 3 deep with studs.

I was wondering why Xavier Thomas wasn’t playing after looking really good. He’s riding the bench cause Murphy is a stud freshman who is better.
We still have a problem with upperclassmen not being scared of the dudes behind them cause there is no one there
We have a problem with divas bouncing as soon as they get passed up. And I think this is the reason why pope and Harley are still trying to catch passes as starters.

TheRe we’re ruMors of pope transferring last year and here he is getting reps and doing nothing. idk if this staff is trying to be more patient or loyal to the local kids to prove a point or we legit have a room of freshman that suck.
So While a 5 star like Thomas has no problem backing up a freshman, our program gives off the appearance that they get worried that any upperclassmen is quick to transfer if he doesn’t start.
Here we were 2 years ago bashing cmr cause pope wasn’t getting reps over cager and berries despite knowing that he had no problem starting AR82 as a freshman. The reason AR started was cause he was a **** stud. It’s obvious we don’t have that guy on this team.
I doubt this staff is so dumb that it won’t start a dude over a 5’9 mile Harley who drops passes and can’t get open unless some play is called to make him wide open so we can all pray he catches it.
Lashlee has no one on this roster anywhere as good as The duo of Roberson or Proche he had at smu . If he did they would be starting .
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Thomas hasn't been playing b/c he's been injured.
 
Criticizing Manny for wanting to be liked by his players may be true, but the reasons we lost to Clemson has much more to do with the poor coaches preparation, play calling, adjustment, assignments, depth, talent, mental errors, and player execution. The players didn’t quit but were gassed during the third quarter. We are still missing many pieces including starters, depth, and excellent coaches. With so many variables that go into winning against a team like Clemson it’s such an over simplification to suggest he tries to hard to be liked for the awful performance against Clemson.
 
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It’s kind of like reprimanding a child.If all you do is threaten the child with no recourse at the end they will continue to try you until you smack them on the *** one time.
You don’t have to beat a child one good smack will do it but they need to know if they continue to do the wrong things there is repercussions for it.

Same thing applies here.For the most part these are just bigger kids and they will continue to try and get away with whatever you allow them to until you “ smack them on the ***” by benching them or making them do extra work or whatever.You just do this a couple times and the rest of the “ Kids” will figure out that not following the rules will have repercussions.If Manny doesn’t “smack them on the ***” the sHT we witnessed last night will continue.
 
When should we dump Manny and go after a new HC? When it becomes apparent that he is no longer improving the team and striding towards elite status. When we see improvement stop, then I'm all in for getting rid of him. And to be clear, he's not out of the woods this season. Not by a long shot! He will need to rally the troops and get them back on track and winning every game henceforth during this regular season.

The only team that I could see him losing to (depending on how the loss happens) and not lose total face is UNC. He should beat UNC and I expect the Canes to beat UNC this season, but they are a legit team. Anyone else and I think he'll lose the fanbase and be right back on the hot seat.

As I said preseason, he really needs to log in 10 wins, even if the 10th comes in the bowl game, in order to have the bulk of Cane Nation behind him. He can survive with 9 wins and maybe with 8. If he doesn't win at least 8, the drums will be banging loud and clear that we need a change at the top. We're not there yet and I believe Manny can keep growing and learning.
 
Exhibit A: The weekly targeting penalties by the usual suspects.

This is a sign that there are no consequences. At least none to be feared.

Meanwhile, Dabo snatched his 5 star OL out the game for a holding call.
 
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15 penalties for 135 yards and 3 turnovers speaks for itself.

And our WRs literally never got meaningful separation, in addition to not adjusting well enough to get the football in the 1v1 matches they were in. O-line failed at generating any sort of a running game. Watch Texas A&M's o-line against Florida yesterday if you want to see what an excellent run blocking o-line looks like.

Reminded me a lot of the 2017 Hurricanes, which is good in the sense that it's a big improvement over the 2018 and 2019 teams. However, that 2017 team had some very obvious limitations that seem to be reflected in the team in 2020.

We're likely several years away from seeing Miami compete for a national title. Ultimately, Miami is just gonna have to recruit better offensively if they want to have a chance.
 
Koke said:
Amari Carter has been making the same mistake for 4 years, that’s unacceptable. Another year of our guys looking undisciplined and that has to fall on Manny.
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And that, either makes AC uncoachable, or our coaches incompetent.
 
RedSquare said:
one college head coach told me:

"manny is a smart guy and a hard worker. definitely dedicated to running a good program, and always thinking. his problem though is he tries to be friends with everyone. the twitter stuff, having his kids like him, which they do. that's a big thing with him. BUT, they aren't afraid of him enough. with my kids, i keep the right amount of distance to keep them afraid. enough of a distance where i can make sure that fear of me is always there, and they know it's real and they could always be benched, chewed out, kicked off the team, just cause i say so. manny doesn't have that, or at least, he needs more of it."
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BOOM! I’ve said the same chit. It’s obvious. We’ve become a frat house, and I’m in a frat so that’s not a compliment
 
Hurracanes said:
The nice guy role with South Florida kids is a disaster combination. Manny is soft. This is nothing new.
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We’ve had our opportunities at hiring badass coaches, we have always opted for the generic brands cause it’s cheaper.
 
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