Donna a Micromanager. DiMare & Miller to Decide Our Fate

[King Slayer]

Agree with this.

Fit is important, and I love pairing Kaaya with an NFL QB coach. He is an NFL QB. Kaaya will be applying the same concepts he's dealing with now, but at a more sophisticated level.

Do you think it's a great idea to hire an OC just to work with Kaaya for a year or two? Or would you like to hire the best possible guy overall for the program who can work with Kaaya and then work with whatever other style QB he wants to work with after that in order to score the most points?

If the OC we hire is a stud, he's probably not going to be around too long. But what I said about Kaaya would also apply to Shireffs or Allison. They are pro-style QBs who should mesh well with pro-style tutoring.

Who's gonna tutor them when Dorsey leaves for the NFL in a year or two? Butch gonna bring in Shoop or Coker?

What about the other stud assistants Butch has brought in? His overall record in building staffs is very good.

Name the stud offensive assistants he brought in

 

[UMFarArcher]

I think it is completely delusional to assume that a guy who only won double digits once in his career is going to come to Miami and instantly turn the team into a winner.

Give him four years to recruit and develop and you might get there, but having seen Butch work before I think its crazy to think he is suddenly going to be a totally different coach at age 63.

You didn't see him work at Miami.

You look at one number.

Five.

No further, just that one number is all you see.

Not realizing that this single number is the average of twenty six other numbers. You never bother looking at what it took to come up with that number, because snot rags don't EVER invest any time considering all conditions and variables.

I used to bag guys like you up all the time. You're just unaware.

I was at the U when Butch was hired. I followed him with the Browns and at UNC. It is a historical fact that he has had one double digit winning season in his entire career. It took him 6 years to do that.

It is also a fact that while he went 9-7 in his second season with Cleveland, he followed that up with a 5-11 and 3-8 season.

I don't care about NFL draft picks. Golden had 7 last year. Shannon had a ton. Coker had a ton. The dirty little secret is that any coach with a bunch of Florida athletes will get a ton of kids drafted.

What Butch did for us in building the 2001 team was great. But his career has proven that he's not a guy that will win big quickly. Making him out to be something his isn't is disingenuous.

I got us going 8-4 with Butch next year. Anyone expecting a quick turnaround will be highly disappointed. Coaches like Butch and Charlie Strong need time to get their players in and developed. Once they do they do well but it usually takes four to five years. It's why I wanted an offensive guru for HC. Quick turnaround and can build off that success. But maybe with a good OC and DC it will be. We shall see

I'd love to know what 4 teams we lose to with our easy schedule next year. Notre Dame is our only good nonconference game and Clemson won't be on the schedule. Butch has always needed time to win but he has always came at the start of a rebuilding process. Canes were dead when he got here and UNC was coming off a two win season. He'd win no less than 10.

When taking over a tanking program, starting out 31 scholarships in the hole, and the other team 3-9 in a less than ideal recruiting area.

How obtuse and narrow minded can some folks be?

 

[Dash]

You didn't see him work at Miami.

You look at one number.

Five.

No further, just that one number is all you see.

Not realizing that this single number is the average of twenty six other numbers. You never bother looking at what it took to come up with that number, because snot rags don't EVER invest any time considering all conditions and variables.

I used to bag guys like you up all the time. You're just unaware.

I was at the U when Butch was hired. I followed him with the Browns and at UNC. It is a historical fact that he has had one double digit winning season in his entire career. It took him 6 years to do that.

It is also a fact that while he went 9-7 in his second season with Cleveland, he followed that up with a 5-11 and 3-8 season.

I don't care about NFL draft picks. Golden had 7 last year. Shannon had a ton. Coker had a ton. The dirty little secret is that any coach with a bunch of Florida athletes will get a ton of kids drafted.

What Butch did for us in building the 2001 team was great. But his career has proven that he's not a guy that will win big quickly. Making him out to be something his isn't is disingenuous.

I got us going 8-4 with Butch next year. Anyone expecting a quick turnaround will be highly disappointed. Coaches like Butch and Charlie Strong need time to get their players in and developed. Once they do they do well but it usually takes four to five years. It's why I wanted an offensive guru for HC. Quick turnaround and can build off that success. But maybe with a good OC and DC it will be. We shall see

I'd love to know what 4 teams we lose to with our easy schedule next year. Notre Dame is our only good nonconference game and Clemson won't be on the schedule. Butch has always needed time to win but he has always came at the start of a rebuilding process. Canes were dead when he got here and UNC was coming off a two win season. He'd win no less than 10.

When taking over a tanking program, starting out 31 scholarships in the hole, and the other team 3-9 in a less than ideal recruiting area.

How obtuse and narrow minded can some folks be?

See this is where people do something called "projecting".

The problem with Butch is that while we do know he had extenuating circumstances at Miami, and took over a bad team at UNC, he still has no track record of turning a team around quickly. It's all "what ifs" and imagination.

There's always some caveat. There is zero in Butchs history whatsoever that indicates he would come in and win immediately, b/c regardless of his circumstances, hes never done it.

He's never won anything. Everyone *****es about the BCS in 2000, but the fact that THAT team with that insane roster lost to UW gets glossed over. Go compare those squads. You want to know why we didn't win the title in 2000? B/C we lost a game we had no business losing.

People on here act like Butch is Urban Meyer, or Pete Carroll, or JJ. He's not even close to that level coach. He has nothing in his career that says he is.

 

[UMFarArcher]

I was at the U when Butch was hired. I followed him with the Browns and at UNC. It is a historical fact that he has had one double digit winning season in his entire career. It took him 6 years to do that.

It is also a fact that while he went 9-7 in his second season with Cleveland, he followed that up with a 5-11 and 3-8 season.

I don't care about NFL draft picks. Golden had 7 last year. Shannon had a ton. Coker had a ton. The dirty little secret is that any coach with a bunch of Florida athletes will get a ton of kids drafted.

What Butch did for us in building the 2001 team was great. But his career has proven that he's not a guy that will win big quickly. Making him out to be something his isn't is disingenuous.

I got us going 8-4 with Butch next year. Anyone expecting a quick turnaround will be highly disappointed. Coaches like Butch and Charlie Strong need time to get their players in and developed. Once they do they do well but it usually takes four to five years. It's why I wanted an offensive guru for HC. Quick turnaround and can build off that success. But maybe with a good OC and DC it will be. We shall see

I'd love to know what 4 teams we lose to with our easy schedule next year. Notre Dame is our only good nonconference game and Clemson won't be on the schedule. Butch has always needed time to win but he has always came at the start of a rebuilding process. Canes were dead when he got here and UNC was coming off a two win season. He'd win no less than 10.

When taking over a tanking program, starting out 31 scholarships in the hole, and the other team 3-9 in a less than ideal recruiting area.

How obtuse and narrow minded can some folks be?

See this is where people do something called "projecting".

The problem with Butch is that while we do know he had extenuating circumstances at Miami, and took over a bad team at UNC, he still has no track record of turning a team around quickly. It's all "what ifs" and imagination.

There's always some caveat. There is zero in Butchs history whatsoever that indicates he would come in and win immediately, b/c regardless of his circumstances, hes never done it.

He's never won anything. Everyone *****es about the BCS in 2000, but the fact that THAT team with that insane roster lost to UW gets glossed over. Go compare those squads. You want to know why we didn't win the title in 2000? B/C we lost a game we had no business losing.

People on here act like Butch is Urban Meyer, or Pete Carroll, or JJ. He's not even close to that level coach. He has nothing in his career that says he is.

When JJ got here and took over Howard's team, he slipped. UM took a step backward. Only a dumba$$ would ignore that while referencing JJ in this context. It shows the level of blatant, willful ignorance.

Your problem is that you assume another coach could come in here and win out right from the start. That's likewise one idiotic assumption. It doesn't happen. Golden couldn't get a quality DT to save his life. Butch knows DT's like no one else.

You mentioned Urban Meyer. At Utah his first year, he lost two games. At Florida his first year, he lost three games. Two years later, he lost three games.

Pete Carroll's first season, he started out 2-5. And when he left - the NCAA said he done some things bad.


So your comparisons are like the rest of your logic - like a sieve, they don't hold water.

Choke on it.

 

[DiegoCane]

I love Dorsey, but his inexperience gives me pause. He's in line to be an NFL OC, but a) that doesn't mean he'll be good at it, and b) coaching in the NFL doesn't automatically mean you'll be good in college. There is a laundry list of guys who coached in the NFL and flopped in college. Butch's last OC (John Shoop) was an OC in the NFL, and he was terrible at UNC.

That said, Dorsey is a smart football junkie, and I think he'll figure it out. I just prefer an offensive head coach with a track record of implementing explosive offenses at the college level; sometimes NFL guys with deep knowledge of the game struggle with teaching 18-year-olds with limited practice time.

It's a roll of the dice with relatively minimal downside, and a ton of upside. Less downside than when we brought Fisch, I think, who many will note had briefly been an OC before his stint here, but had fumbled it a bit. Fans at his prior stop were happy to see him go.

We have to be ahead of the curve once. Just f'in once. Dorsey is a former advanced scout, football maniac, and has considerable experience (while playing and after) handling QBs and contributing to NFL offenses. Is it a perfect hire with no risk? Obviously not. But, it's one **** of a roll of the dice to get Dorsey as your college OC when he'll likely get a crack at NFL OC within 2 years.

To me, Dorsey is a future Head Coach or offensive guru. I'm betting on him.

Agree with this.

Fit is important, and I love pairing Kaaya with an NFL QB coach. He is an NFL QB. Kaaya will be applying the same concepts he's dealing with now, but at a more sophisticated level.

Do you think it's a great idea to hire an OC just to work with Kaaya for a year or two? Or would you like to hire the best possible guy overall for the program who can work with Kaaya and then work with whatever other style QB he wants to work with after that in order to score the most points?

I'm not sure that's what D$ meant, but he can answer for himself. It's sure as **** not what I meant by a year or two. I'm not sure why you're trying to make it seem like some of us are against Herman. I've questioned Herman. I've questioned Butch (just did so in a recent thread I started). I think they both have flaws and risks. I prefer Butch, very slightly, to Herman because I think he is more likely and a better overall fit - right now - than what I know from Herman's side. Doesn't mean some of us wouldn't be elated with Herman. In fact, and I can only speak for myself here, I think he's clearly the most intriguing coach of any name mentioned.

I like Butch a lot but it would be crazy not to be worried about his OC hire and offense. His last 2 hires for college OCs were Larry Coker and John Shoop, hardly innovative offensive minds. I'm tired of being stuck in the past offensively, we haven't taken advantage of the talent in our backyard in a long time.

I'm not worried about "fit" with college coaches. Fit is an excuses for average coaches who can't cut it at certain places. Great coaches are great coaches.

 

[KevinCaneFace]

I was at the U when Butch was hired. I followed him with the Browns and at UNC. It is a historical fact that he has had one double digit winning season in his entire career. It took him 6 years to do that.

It is also a fact that while he went 9-7 in his second season with Cleveland, he followed that up with a 5-11 and 3-8 season.

I don't care about NFL draft picks. Golden had 7 last year. Shannon had a ton. Coker had a ton. The dirty little secret is that any coach with a bunch of Florida athletes will get a ton of kids drafted.

What Butch did for us in building the 2001 team was great. But his career has proven that he's not a guy that will win big quickly. Making him out to be something his isn't is disingenuous.

I got us going 8-4 with Butch next year. Anyone expecting a quick turnaround will be highly disappointed. Coaches like Butch and Charlie Strong need time to get their players in and developed. Once they do they do well but it usually takes four to five years. It's why I wanted an offensive guru for HC. Quick turnaround and can build off that success. But maybe with a good OC and DC it will be. We shall see

I'd love to know what 4 teams we lose to with our easy schedule next year. Notre Dame is our only good nonconference game and Clemson won't be on the schedule. Butch has always needed time to win but he has always came at the start of a rebuilding process. Canes were dead when he got here and UNC was coming off a two win season. He'd win no less than 10.

When taking over a tanking program, starting out 31 scholarships in the hole, and the other team 3-9 in a less than ideal recruiting area.

How obtuse and narrow minded can some folks be?

See this is where people do something called "projecting".

The problem with Butch is that while we do know he had extenuating circumstances at Miami, and took over a bad team at UNC, he still has no track record of turning a team around quickly. It's all "what ifs" and imagination.

There's always some caveat. There is zero in Butchs history whatsoever that indicates he would come in and win immediately, b/c regardless of his circumstances, hes never done it.

He's never won anything. Everyone *****es about the BCS in 2000, but the fact that THAT team with that insane roster lost to UW gets glossed over. Go compare those squads. You want to know why we didn't win the title in 2000? B/C we lost a game we had no business losing.

People on here act like Butch is Urban Meyer, or Pete Carroll, or JJ. He's not even close to that level coach. He has nothing in his career that says he is.

There's no track record of Butch winning quickly because he's always taken over bad situations. UNC was terrible they were a doormat yet he had them on the cusp of a turnaround in just three years before the NCAA thing hit. He did what he did here with 12 scholarships.

You mention the one loss in 2000. That Washington team finished #3 in the country with one loss and a Rose bowl win. They beat us by one score 3.000 miles away from the Orange Bowl with a wet behind the ears Ken Dorsey. Yet, you talk like that was a terrible loss. We beat several top 5 teams that year. Please, it was clear in 2000 that Butch completed the rebuild and that team wouldn't loss again for almost three years after washington.

 

[KevinCaneFace]

It's a roll of the dice with relatively minimal downside, and a ton of upside. Less downside than when we brought Fisch, I think, who many will note had briefly been an OC before his stint here, but had fumbled it a bit. Fans at his prior stop were happy to see him go.

We have to be ahead of the curve once. Just f'in once. Dorsey is a former advanced scout, football maniac, and has considerable experience (while playing and after) handling QBs and contributing to NFL offenses. Is it a perfect hire with no risk? Obviously not. But, it's one **** of a roll of the dice to get Dorsey as your college OC when he'll likely get a crack at NFL OC within 2 years.

To me, Dorsey is a future Head Coach or offensive guru. I'm betting on him.

Agree with this.

Fit is important, and I love pairing Kaaya with an NFL QB coach. He is an NFL QB. Kaaya will be applying the same concepts he's dealing with now, but at a more sophisticated level.

Do you think it's a great idea to hire an OC just to work with Kaaya for a year or two? Or would you like to hire the best possible guy overall for the program who can work with Kaaya and then work with whatever other style QB he wants to work with after that in order to score the most points?

I'm not sure that's what D$ meant, but he can answer for himself. It's sure as **** not what I meant by a year or two. I'm not sure why you're trying to make it seem like some of us are against Herman. I've questioned Herman. I've questioned Butch (just did so in a recent thread I started). I think they both have flaws and risks. I prefer Butch, very slightly, to Herman because I think he is more likely and a better overall fit - right now - than what I know from Herman's side. Doesn't mean some of us wouldn't be elated with Herman. In fact, and I can only speak for myself here, I think he's clearly the most intriguing coach of any name mentioned.

I like Butch a lot but it would be crazy not to be worried about his OC hire and offense. His last 2 hires for college OCs were Larry Coker and John Shoop, hardly innovative offensive minds. I'm tired of being stuck in the past offensively, we haven't taken advantage of the talent in our backyard in a long time.

I'm not worried about "fit" with college coaches. Fit is an excuses for average coaches who can't cut it at certain places. Great coaches are great coaches.

Larry Coker was not a bad OC at the time

 

[mdpcane]

I got us going 8-4 with Butch next year. Anyone expecting a quick turnaround will be highly disappointed. Coaches like Butch and Charlie Strong need time to get their players in and developed. Once they do they do well but it usually takes four to five years. It's why I wanted an offensive guru for HC. Quick turnaround and can build off that success. But maybe with a good OC and DC it will be. We shall see

I'd love to know what 4 teams we lose to with our easy schedule next year. Notre Dame is our only good nonconference game and Clemson won't be on the schedule. Butch has always needed time to win but he has always came at the start of a rebuilding process. Canes were dead when he got here and UNC was coming off a two win season. He'd win no less than 10.

When taking over a tanking program, starting out 31 scholarships in the hole, and the other team 3-9 in a less than ideal recruiting area.

How obtuse and narrow minded can some folks be?

See this is where people do something called "projecting".

The problem with Butch is that while we do know he had extenuating circumstances at Miami, and took over a bad team at UNC, he still has no track record of turning a team around quickly. It's all "what ifs" and imagination.

There's always some caveat. There is zero in Butchs history whatsoever that indicates he would come in and win immediately, b/c regardless of his circumstances, hes never done it.

He's never won anything. Everyone *****es about the BCS in 2000, but the fact that THAT team with that insane roster lost to UW gets glossed over. Go compare those squads. You want to know why we didn't win the title in 2000? B/C we lost a game we had no business losing.

People on here act like Butch is Urban Meyer, or Pete Carroll, or JJ. He's not even close to that level coach. He has nothing in his career that says he is.

There's no track record of Butch winning quickly because he's always taken over bad situations. UNC was terrible they were a doormat yet he had them on the cusp of a turnaround in just three years before the NCAA thing hit. He did what he did here with 12 scholarships.

You mention the one loss in 2000. That Washington team finished #3 in the country with one loss and a Rose bowl win. They beat us by one score 3.000 miles away from the Orange Bowl with a wet behind the ears Ken Dorsey. Yet, you talk like that was a terrible loss. We beat several top 5 teams that year. Please, it was clear in 2000 that Butch completed the rebuild and that team wouldn't loss again for almost three years after washington.

you're like trying to make an orangutan understand Chinese, man.

 

[DiegoCane]

Agree with this.

Fit is important, and I love pairing Kaaya with an NFL QB coach. He is an NFL QB. Kaaya will be applying the same concepts he's dealing with now, but at a more sophisticated level.

Do you think it's a great idea to hire an OC just to work with Kaaya for a year or two? Or would you like to hire the best possible guy overall for the program who can work with Kaaya and then work with whatever other style QB he wants to work with after that in order to score the most points?

I'm not sure that's what D$ meant, but he can answer for himself. It's sure as **** not what I meant by a year or two. I'm not sure why you're trying to make it seem like some of us are against Herman. I've questioned Herman. I've questioned Butch (just did so in a recent thread I started). I think they both have flaws and risks. I prefer Butch, very slightly, to Herman because I think he is more likely and a better overall fit - right now - than what I know from Herman's side. Doesn't mean some of us wouldn't be elated with Herman. In fact, and I can only speak for myself here, I think he's clearly the most intriguing coach of any name mentioned.

I like Butch a lot but it would be crazy not to be worried about his OC hire and offense. His last 2 hires for college OCs were Larry Coker and John Shoop, hardly innovative offensive minds. I'm tired of being stuck in the past offensively, we haven't taken advantage of the talent in our backyard in a long time.

I'm not worried about "fit" with college coaches. Fit is an excuses for average coaches who can't cut it at certain places. Great coaches are great coaches.

Larry Coker was not a bad OC at the time

Because the team was loaded to the gills with talent. It wasn't like he was out scheming people on a regular basis.

Same reason Shannon was putting together top 5 Ds as the DC. Shannon hasn't been able to get a DC job since he was fired here (and yes I know he is a co-DC now but its in job title only).

 

[KevinCaneFace]

Do you think it's a great idea to hire an OC just to work with Kaaya for a year or two? Or would you like to hire the best possible guy overall for the program who can work with Kaaya and then work with whatever other style QB he wants to work with after that in order to score the most points?

I'm not sure that's what D$ meant, but he can answer for himself. It's sure as **** not what I meant by a year or two. I'm not sure why you're trying to make it seem like some of us are against Herman. I've questioned Herman. I've questioned Butch (just did so in a recent thread I started). I think they both have flaws and risks. I prefer Butch, very slightly, to Herman because I think he is more likely and a better overall fit - right now - than what I know from Herman's side. Doesn't mean some of us wouldn't be elated with Herman. In fact, and I can only speak for myself here, I think he's clearly the most intriguing coach of any name mentioned.

I like Butch a lot but it would be crazy not to be worried about his OC hire and offense. His last 2 hires for college OCs were Larry Coker and John Shoop, hardly innovative offensive minds. I'm tired of being stuck in the past offensively, we haven't taken advantage of the talent in our backyard in a long time.

I'm not worried about "fit" with college coaches. Fit is an excuses for average coaches who can't cut it at certain places. Great coaches are great coaches.

Larry Coker was not a bad OC at the time

Because the team was loaded to the gills with talent. It wasn't like he was out scheming people on a regular basis.

Same reason Shannon was putting together top 5 Ds as the DC. Shannon hasn't been able to get a DC job since he was fired here (and yes I know he is a co-DC now but its in job title only).

And I've never thought Nick Saban's teams out schemed the competition. Those guys didn't out scheme anybody but what they did was coach the **** out of those players until they could go out and dominate. Schemes can be figured out but players with great coaching will simply out play you.

 

[NVA CANE]

I think it is completely delusional to assume that a guy who only won double digits once in his career is going to come to Miami and instantly turn the team into a winner.

Give him four years to recruit and develop and you might get there, but having seen Butch work before I think its crazy to think he is suddenly going to be a totally different coach at age 63.

You didn't see him work at Miami.

You look at one number.

Five.

No further, just that one number is all you see.

Not realizing that this single number is the average of twenty six other numbers. You never bother looking at what it took to come up with that number, because snot rags don't EVER invest any time considering all conditions and variables.

I used to bag guys like you up all the time. You're just unaware.

I was at the U when Butch was hired. I followed him with the Browns and at UNC. It is a historical fact that he has had one double digit winning season in his entire career. It took him 6 years to do that.

It is also a fact that while he went 9-7 in his second season with Cleveland, he followed that up with a 5-11 and 3-8 season.

I don't care about NFL draft picks. Golden had 7 last year. Shannon had a ton. Coker had a ton. The dirty little secret is that any coach with a bunch of Florida athletes will get a ton of kids drafted.

What Butch did for us in building the 2001 team was great. But his career has proven that he's not a guy that will win big quickly. Making him out to be something his isn't is disingenuous.

I got us going 8-4 with Butch next year. Anyone expecting a quick turnaround will be highly disappointed. Coaches like Butch and Charlie Strong need time to get their players in and developed. Once they do they do well but it usually takes four to five years. It's why I wanted an offensive guru for HC. Quick turnaround and can build off that success. But maybe with a good OC and DC it will be. We shall see

You got ****.

That's what you got.

And **** your offensive guru HC.

In your skewed world, is he going to HC or be the Coordinator?

Lol. Get a hold of your emotions Arch. You're ranting and raving like a lunatic and all for some man that you have an odd obsession over. For someone that talked a lot of **** about the golden slurpers you sure are putting them to shame with how much Butch **** you're gobbling.

As for the record If I'm wrong you can bump this thread come this time next year. I'll gladly admit I was wrong and I actually hope I am wrong. Will you admit you're wrong or will you make a bunch of excuses if we end up losing four or more games?

 

[DiegoCane]

I'm not sure that's what D$ meant, but he can answer for himself. It's sure as **** not what I meant by a year or two. I'm not sure why you're trying to make it seem like some of us are against Herman. I've questioned Herman. I've questioned Butch (just did so in a recent thread I started). I think they both have flaws and risks. I prefer Butch, very slightly, to Herman because I think he is more likely and a better overall fit - right now - than what I know from Herman's side. Doesn't mean some of us wouldn't be elated with Herman. In fact, and I can only speak for myself here, I think he's clearly the most intriguing coach of any name mentioned.

I like Butch a lot but it would be crazy not to be worried about his OC hire and offense. His last 2 hires for college OCs were Larry Coker and John Shoop, hardly innovative offensive minds. I'm tired of being stuck in the past offensively, we haven't taken advantage of the talent in our backyard in a long time.

I'm not worried about "fit" with college coaches. Fit is an excuses for average coaches who can't cut it at certain places. Great coaches are great coaches.

Larry Coker was not a bad OC at the time

Because the team was loaded to the gills with talent. It wasn't like he was out scheming people on a regular basis.

Same reason Shannon was putting together top 5 Ds as the DC. Shannon hasn't been able to get a DC job since he was fired here (and yes I know he is a co-DC now but its in job title only).

And I've never thought Nick Saban's teams out schemed the competition. Those guys didn't out scheme anybody but what they did was coach the **** out of those players until they could go out and dominate. Schemes can be figured out but players with great coaching will simply out play you.

Well of course the team with the #1 recruiting class every year is going to win games, they have the most talent.

I dont know why that means we can't have an innovative mind as an OC or HC. Did you see what Ohio St did to Saban last year? Smoked them for 500+ yards and 280 on the ground.

I like Butch and will be happy if he is hired. But I know, unless he has adapted, that I'm going to get a pretty bland offense and overall conservative approach to that side of ball. He is the only candidate of that ilk that I would be happy with because I know he brings elite talent evaluation and development. I just hope, he hasn't lost that skill.

 

[Dash]

Again, please check out the rosters of our 2000 team compared to UW. I'm sick of people *****ing about how we should have won the title. Butch is the greatest evaluator of all time no question. But he still lost games he shouldn't have. So what does it matter that he can have more draft picks than god if he can't win with those guys?

I don't know about you, but I'm really kind of sick of getting more enjoyment out of what the Canes do on Sundays than what they do on Saturdays. Canes fan laugh about Bama's busts, or UF's busts, or whomever........but it's only bc we don't have anything to be proud of on Saturdays.

The 2002 squad might have been the most stacked of all when you look at who was playing. And yet we struggled to beat some no name squads, en route to a title loss versus a nobody OSU team. It didn't matter that we had all those NFL cats. I'm just ready for a different vibe from UM.

 

[Crazy4thecanes]

I'm still on the Butch wagon but I have to be honest - after listening to WAY too much sports talk radio than can be healthy for me - I wouldn't be sad if Charlie Strong is the choice. If they could swing that? Pffft. Watch out!

Wait are people finally coming to their senses after listening to people with valid opinions and rational thought.

Could you imagine the radio show these clowns would host?

I actually feel the same way .

I love butch but part of me knows its just nostalgia. There is no other coach other than maybe Jimmy that I would like to bring us back. But I cannot deny he is old and he did not do things at UNC that should make us simply believe he will do 2001 all over again.

People say Alabama recruits itself well maybe in 2001 The U recruited for itself. Maybe it was the perfect storm. It was simply because of him he would have had more success. Urban would go to UNC and win the coastal without a doubt.

I will root like MFer for Miami regardless of the coach.

I would be happy with Charlie and I would be happy with Herman.

I dont want Mario as the HC but i do want him on the staff.

Anytime you can force the number one recruiting team to lose their top recruiter and to have to rebuild connects in your locale its a very good move. With him being a Cane its a no brainer. He also has connects in other top programs simply because he was under the Saban banner. To simply bad mouth this dude because your a paranoid crybaby make no sense to me.

you lost me at the Mario part. For me, it left a very (******* VERY) bad taste when he ran out of town the last time. I can seen he virtue of harming Alabama's connections in the area but then I remember that they hardly recruit here at all. So..... Still not feeling ya on those points.

I don't want Mario on staff in any capacity and while I do want Butch - people have me believing we have a slim chance at Charlie Strong which would be a grand slam home run hire. I actually have less doubts about Strong than I do Butch if I'm being perfectly honest.

How does Mario leaving the Golden staff upset you but Butch leaving us for the Cleveland browns after he lied to the media about it days before not bother you. Buth left a title on the table... Mario left Golden

I agree with Strong he would be a homerun.

Chip would be my top person.

Butch is my sentimental choice.

Charlie would make the most sense.

And if only was about X and O I would want Herman.

I am inclined to believe that Butch was getting the jerk around in contract negotiations. With the benefit of hindsight & having lived through the 15 years of Shalala's reign, I am very willing to believe that Butch walked with good reason.

 

[LuCane]

It's a roll of the dice with relatively minimal downside, and a ton of upside. Less downside than when we brought Fisch, I think, who many will note had briefly been an OC before his stint here, but had fumbled it a bit. Fans at his prior stop were happy to see him go.

We have to be ahead of the curve once. Just f'in once. Dorsey is a former advanced scout, football maniac, and has considerable experience (while playing and after) handling QBs and contributing to NFL offenses. Is it a perfect hire with no risk? Obviously not. But, it's one **** of a roll of the dice to get Dorsey as your college OC when he'll likely get a crack at NFL OC within 2 years.

To me, Dorsey is a future Head Coach or offensive guru. I'm betting on him.

Agree with this.

Fit is important, and I love pairing Kaaya with an NFL QB coach. He is an NFL QB. Kaaya will be applying the same concepts he's dealing with now, but at a more sophisticated level.

Do you think it's a great idea to hire an OC just to work with Kaaya for a year or two? Or would you like to hire the best possible guy overall for the program who can work with Kaaya and then work with whatever other style QB he wants to work with after that in order to score the most points?

I'm not sure that's what D$ meant, but he can answer for himself. It's sure as **** not what I meant by a year or two. I'm not sure why you're trying to make it seem like some of us are against Herman. I've questioned Herman. I've questioned Butch (just did so in a recent thread I started). I think they both have flaws and risks. I prefer Butch, very slightly, to Herman because I think he is more likely and a better overall fit - right now - than what I know from Herman's side. Doesn't mean some of us wouldn't be elated with Herman. In fact, and I can only speak for myself here, I think he's clearly the most intriguing coach of any name mentioned.

I like Butch a lot but it would be crazy not to be worried about his OC hire and offense. His last 2 hires for college OCs were Larry Coker and John Shoop, hardly innovative offensive minds. I'm tired of being stuck in the past offensively, we haven't taken advantage of the talent in our backyard in a long time.

I'm not worried about "fit" with college coaches. Fit is an excuses for average coaches who can't cut it at certain places. Great coaches are great coaches.

Who said we're not worried about it? I started an entire thread about it earlier in the week. If it comes down to Butch, I'm worried about that and in-game coaching. Do you have a candidate who doesn't worry you in any way?

 

[Phillyc55]

Anyway we can lure bill bellichick from the pats??

 

[UMFarArcher]

Agree with this.

Fit is important, and I love pairing Kaaya with an NFL QB coach. He is an NFL QB. Kaaya will be applying the same concepts he's dealing with now, but at a more sophisticated level.

Do you think it's a great idea to hire an OC just to work with Kaaya for a year or two? Or would you like to hire the best possible guy overall for the program who can work with Kaaya and then work with whatever other style QB he wants to work with after that in order to score the most points?

I'm not sure that's what D$ meant, but he can answer for himself. It's sure as **** not what I meant by a year or two. I'm not sure why you're trying to make it seem like some of us are against Herman. I've questioned Herman. I've questioned Butch (just did so in a recent thread I started). I think they both have flaws and risks. I prefer Butch, very slightly, to Herman because I think he is more likely and a better overall fit - right now - than what I know from Herman's side. Doesn't mean some of us wouldn't be elated with Herman. In fact, and I can only speak for myself here, I think he's clearly the most intriguing coach of any name mentioned.

I like Butch a lot but it would be crazy not to be worried about his OC hire and offense. His last 2 hires for college OCs were Larry Coker and John Shoop, hardly innovative offensive minds. I'm tired of being stuck in the past offensively, we haven't taken advantage of the talent in our backyard in a long time.

I'm not worried about "fit" with college coaches. Fit is an excuses for average coaches who can't cut it at certain places. Great coaches are great coaches.

Who said we're not worried about it? I started an entire thread about it earlier in the week. If it comes down to Butch, I'm worried about that and in-game coaching. Do you have a candidate who doesn't worry you in any way?

THIS.

This is what I keep saying, but these dumba$$es assume that Herman is a perfect coach. Or Chip is a perfect coach. Earlier, it was Fuentes.

There IS no perfect coach! Some young ones on occasion have a good run, but then their scheme is figured out and THEY start losing.

Top coaches? Urban's first year at UF, he lost three games. Did better his second. HIS THIRD YEAR? Lost three games!

Herman's going to have his losses, he's going to have his flubs, he's going to falter - just like everyone else!

I'm just one who prefers a proven coach - one with a real track record - UNDER very harsh conditions.

You guys tout these new coaches that have NEVER coached a team out from under extreme adversity. You don't know how they'll react when that day will come.

Combat was our separator. When things were really, really bad, when we were really outnumbered, we discovered those who remained constant, who could always be relied upon - and then there were the others who just couldn't function consistently.

You young guys are out of your minds wanting a first year head coach.

He may be great. But we really don't have much to go on, at that job, do we? Forget other positions, blue ribbons in the third grade - Herman hasn't even ONE season as a head coach under his belt.

Me? I rather go to battle with a war horse I know I can rely on. Not someone going to duck out at the first "better" or "safer" opportunity.

 

[DiegoCane]

Agree with this.

Fit is important, and I love pairing Kaaya with an NFL QB coach. He is an NFL QB. Kaaya will be applying the same concepts he's dealing with now, but at a more sophisticated level.

Do you think it's a great idea to hire an OC just to work with Kaaya for a year or two? Or would you like to hire the best possible guy overall for the program who can work with Kaaya and then work with whatever other style QB he wants to work with after that in order to score the most points?

I'm not sure that's what D$ meant, but he can answer for himself. It's sure as **** not what I meant by a year or two. I'm not sure why you're trying to make it seem like some of us are against Herman. I've questioned Herman. I've questioned Butch (just did so in a recent thread I started). I think they both have flaws and risks. I prefer Butch, very slightly, to Herman because I think he is more likely and a better overall fit - right now - than what I know from Herman's side. Doesn't mean some of us wouldn't be elated with Herman. In fact, and I can only speak for myself here, I think he's clearly the most intriguing coach of any name mentioned.

I like Butch a lot but it would be crazy not to be worried about his OC hire and offense. His last 2 hires for college OCs were Larry Coker and John Shoop, hardly innovative offensive minds. I'm tired of being stuck in the past offensively, we haven't taken advantage of the talent in our backyard in a long time.

I'm not worried about "fit" with college coaches. Fit is an excuses for average coaches who can't cut it at certain places. Great coaches are great coaches.

Who said we're not worried about it? I started an entire thread about it earlier in the week. If it comes down to Butch, I'm worried about that and in-game coaching. Do you have a candidate who doesn't worry you in any way?

If a miracle happened and we hired Chip Kelly, I'd have zero worries. Same with Patterson. Also, despite only 1 year as a HC I would have almost zero worries about Tom Herman. But that is just my opinion.

 

[Dwinstitles]

Everyone stresses and complains over the fact butch lost in 99 to UW, wake the fk up ill take a one loss miami team yearly

 

[Consigliere]

Everyone stresses and complains over the fact butch lost in 99 to UW, wake the fk up ill take a one loss miami team yearly

In 1999 we lost 4 games.