Donna a Micromanager. DiMare & Miller to Decide Our Fate

[LuCane]

Do you think it's a great idea to hire an OC just to work with Kaaya for a year or two? Or would you like to hire the best possible guy overall for the program who can work with Kaaya and then work with whatever other style QB he wants to work with after that in order to score the most points?

I'm not sure that's what D$ meant, but he can answer for himself. It's sure as **** not what I meant by a year or two. I'm not sure why you're trying to make it seem like some of us are against Herman. I've questioned Herman. I've questioned Butch (just did so in a recent thread I started). I think they both have flaws and risks. I prefer Butch, very slightly, to Herman because I think he is more likely and a better overall fit - right now - than what I know from Herman's side. Doesn't mean some of us wouldn't be elated with Herman. In fact, and I can only speak for myself here, I think he's clearly the most intriguing coach of any name mentioned.

I like Butch a lot but it would be crazy not to be worried about his OC hire and offense. His last 2 hires for college OCs were Larry Coker and John Shoop, hardly innovative offensive minds. I'm tired of being stuck in the past offensively, we haven't taken advantage of the talent in our backyard in a long time.

I'm not worried about "fit" with college coaches. Fit is an excuses for average coaches who can't cut it at certain places. Great coaches are great coaches.

Who said we're not worried about it? I started an entire thread about it earlier in the week. If it comes down to Butch, I'm worried about that and in-game coaching. Do you have a candidate who doesn't worry you in any way?

If a miracle happened and we hired Chip Kelly, I'd have zero worries. Same with Patterson. Also, despite only 1 year as a HC I would have almost zero worries about Tom Herman. But that is just my opinion.

I'm with you and others on making the calls to guys who might otherwise seem out of our reach.

I find it odd that you have literally "almost zero worries" about Tom Herman. There is plenty to worry about with him - despite the fact he likely has the largest ceiling as a Head Coach.

 

[umcane4life]

Everyone defending that little ghoul should show themselves. She destroyed a dynasty in a little over a decade. She's a barbarian. Her whole goal is to create a "gender neutral football program without any triggers that offered a safe space."

This is the same woman that was rumored to encourage a "diverse" roster; she didn't want so many kids from South Florida. My those who defended her rot in the lowest level of ****.

couldn't explain it any better than what was written above

 

[DiegoCane]

I'm not sure that's what D$ meant, but he can answer for himself. It's sure as **** not what I meant by a year or two. I'm not sure why you're trying to make it seem like some of us are against Herman. I've questioned Herman. I've questioned Butch (just did so in a recent thread I started). I think they both have flaws and risks. I prefer Butch, very slightly, to Herman because I think he is more likely and a better overall fit - right now - than what I know from Herman's side. Doesn't mean some of us wouldn't be elated with Herman. In fact, and I can only speak for myself here, I think he's clearly the most intriguing coach of any name mentioned.

I like Butch a lot but it would be crazy not to be worried about his OC hire and offense. His last 2 hires for college OCs were Larry Coker and John Shoop, hardly innovative offensive minds. I'm tired of being stuck in the past offensively, we haven't taken advantage of the talent in our backyard in a long time.

I'm not worried about "fit" with college coaches. Fit is an excuses for average coaches who can't cut it at certain places. Great coaches are great coaches.

Who said we're not worried about it? I started an entire thread about it earlier in the week. If it comes down to Butch, I'm worried about that and in-game coaching. Do you have a candidate who doesn't worry you in any way?

If a miracle happened and we hired Chip Kelly, I'd have zero worries. Same with Patterson. Also, despite only 1 year as a HC I would have almost zero worries about Tom Herman. But that is just my opinion.

I'm with you and others on making the calls to guys who might otherwise seem out of our reach.

I find it odd that you have literally "almost zero worries" about Tom Herman. There is plenty to worry about with him - despite the fact he likely has the largest ceiling as a Head Coach.

I just think Herman is it. I don't think I've ever been this high on a young coach. I haven't seen one thing from him that I don't like and I think his personality would kill in SFla. I think the SFla kids would love what he preaches.

 

[The Franchise]

I love Dorsey, but his inexperience gives me pause. He's in line to be an NFL OC, but a) that doesn't mean he'll be good at it, and b) coaching in the NFL doesn't automatically mean you'll be good in college. There is a laundry list of guys who coached in the NFL and flopped in college. Butch's last OC (John Shoop) was an OC in the NFL, and he was terrible at UNC.

That said, Dorsey is a smart football junkie, and I think he'll figure it out. I just prefer an offensive head coach with a track record of implementing explosive offenses at the college level; sometimes NFL guys with deep knowledge of the game struggle with teaching 18-year-olds with limited practice time.

It's a roll of the dice with relatively minimal downside, and a ton of upside. Less downside than when we brought Fisch, I think, who many will note had briefly been an OC before his stint here, but had fumbled it a bit. Fans at his prior stop were happy to see him go.

We have to be ahead of the curve once. Just f'in once. Dorsey is a former advanced scout, football maniac, and has considerable experience (while playing and after) handling QBs and contributing to NFL offenses. Is it a perfect hire with no risk? Obviously not. But, it's one **** of a roll of the dice to get Dorsey as your college OC when he'll likely get a crack at NFL OC within 2 years.

To me, Dorsey is a future Head Coach or offensive guru. I'm betting on him.

Agree with this.

Fit is important, and I love pairing Kaaya with an NFL QB coach. He is an NFL QB. Kaaya will be applying the same concepts he's dealing with now, but at a more sophisticated level.

Do you think it's a great idea to hire an OC just to work with Kaaya for a year or two? Or would you like to hire the best possible guy overall for the program who can work with Kaaya and then work with whatever other style QB he wants to work with after that in order to score the most points?

I'm not sure that's what D$ meant, but he can answer for himself. It's sure as **** not what I meant by a year or two. I'm not sure why you're trying to make it seem like some of us are against Herman. I've questioned Herman. I've questioned Butch (just did so in a recent thread I started). I think they both have flaws and risks. I prefer Butch, very slightly, to Herman because I think he is more likely and a better overall fit - right now - than what I know from Herman's side. Doesn't mean some of us wouldn't be elated with Herman. In fact, and I can only speak for myself here, I think he's clearly the most intriguing coach of any name mentioned.

I'm not sure how you got me thinking you (or anyone else) is against Herman from me asking D$ the question I asked D$. He's continually referenced Kaaya when he talks about hiring a new HC. My question has nothing to do with Herman.

I don't think Kaaya should be the emphasis in hiring a new HC because Kaaya will be gone before we know it. And Kaaya's proven that he's not a transcendent talent who is going to win on his own anyway. Kaaya needs a great HC just like the rest of the team does.

 

[The Franchise]

Agree with this.

Fit is important, and I love pairing Kaaya with an NFL QB coach. He is an NFL QB. Kaaya will be applying the same concepts he's dealing with now, but at a more sophisticated level.

Do you think it's a great idea to hire an OC just to work with Kaaya for a year or two? Or would you like to hire the best possible guy overall for the program who can work with Kaaya and then work with whatever other style QB he wants to work with after that in order to score the most points?

If the OC we hire is a stud, he's probably not going to be around too long. But what I said about Kaaya would also apply to Shireffs or Allison. They are pro-style QBs who should mesh well with pro-style tutoring.

Who's gonna tutor them when Dorsey leaves for the NFL in a year or two? Butch gonna bring in Shoop or Coker?

What about the other stud assistants Butch has brought in? His overall record in building staffs is very good.

Not so sure his record with coordinators is all that impressive. He's done a great job with hiring position coaches though.

 

[LuCane]

It's a roll of the dice with relatively minimal downside, and a ton of upside. Less downside than when we brought Fisch, I think, who many will note had briefly been an OC before his stint here, but had fumbled it a bit. Fans at his prior stop were happy to see him go.

We have to be ahead of the curve once. Just f'in once. Dorsey is a former advanced scout, football maniac, and has considerable experience (while playing and after) handling QBs and contributing to NFL offenses. Is it a perfect hire with no risk? Obviously not. But, it's one **** of a roll of the dice to get Dorsey as your college OC when he'll likely get a crack at NFL OC within 2 years.

To me, Dorsey is a future Head Coach or offensive guru. I'm betting on him.

Agree with this.

Fit is important, and I love pairing Kaaya with an NFL QB coach. He is an NFL QB. Kaaya will be applying the same concepts he's dealing with now, but at a more sophisticated level.

Do you think it's a great idea to hire an OC just to work with Kaaya for a year or two? Or would you like to hire the best possible guy overall for the program who can work with Kaaya and then work with whatever other style QB he wants to work with after that in order to score the most points?

I'm not sure that's what D$ meant, but he can answer for himself. It's sure as **** not what I meant by a year or two. I'm not sure why you're trying to make it seem like some of us are against Herman. I've questioned Herman. I've questioned Butch (just did so in a recent thread I started). I think they both have flaws and risks. I prefer Butch, very slightly, to Herman because I think he is more likely and a better overall fit - right now - than what I know from Herman's side. Doesn't mean some of us wouldn't be elated with Herman. In fact, and I can only speak for myself here, I think he's clearly the most intriguing coach of any name mentioned.

I'm not sure how you got me thinking you (or anyone else) is against Herman from me asking D$ the question I asked D$. He's continually referenced Kaaya when he talks about hiring a new HC. My question has nothing to do with Herman.

I don't think Kaaya should be the emphasis in hiring a new HC because Kaaya will be gone before we know it. And Kaaya's proven that he's not a transcendent talent who is going to win on his own anyway. Kaaya needs a great HC just like the rest of the team does.

I misunderstood the 1 to 2 year portion of your post based on what I had mentioned about Dorsey possibly being an NFL OC in that time.

 

[DMoney]

Do you think it's a great idea to hire an OC just to work with Kaaya for a year or two? Or would you like to hire the best possible guy overall for the program who can work with Kaaya and then work with whatever other style QB he wants to work with after that in order to score the most points?

If the OC we hire is a stud, he's probably not going to be around too long. But what I said about Kaaya would also apply to Shireffs or Allison. They are pro-style QBs who should mesh well with pro-style tutoring.

Who's gonna tutor them when Dorsey leaves for the NFL in a year or two? Butch gonna bring in Shoop or Coker?

What about the other stud assistants Butch has brought in? His overall record in building staffs is very good.

Name the stud offensive assistants he brought in

Bruce Arians is a pretty good OC.

At Miami, he had Chud, Curtis Johnson (head coach of Tulane) and Don Soldinger.

 

[01Canes]

If the OC we hire is a stud, he's probably not going to be around too long. But what I said about Kaaya would also apply to Shireffs or Allison. They are pro-style QBs who should mesh well with pro-style tutoring.

Who's gonna tutor them when Dorsey leaves for the NFL in a year or two? Butch gonna bring in Shoop or Coker?

What about the other stud assistants Butch has brought in? His overall record in building staffs is very good.

Name the stud offensive assistants he brought in

Bruce Arians is a pretty good OC.

At Miami, he had Chud, Curtis Johnson (head coach of Tulane) and Don Soldinger.

Arians is an outstanding offensive coach. One of the best in the sport and has been for years. Butch fired him in 2003, had a 3-8 start to the following season, and resigned later that year. Arians has ultimately succeeded everywhere he's been since 1998 with one exception: Cleveland under Butch. One is an extremely aggressive playcaller and the other is a maddeningly conservative gameday coach. They never meshed.

Curtis Johnson's Tulane offense, in his fourth year on the job, is ranked 127th out of 128 teams in yards per play this season. They've won 5 games from 2014-2015. He is awful.

Soldinger and Chud coached under Butch at UM roughly 15 years ago. They obviously fit the criteria since you were asked to name his strongest offensive assistants, but I'm specifically concerned about his track record with OCs in college. The only one he's hired in the past decade is John Shoop, who was an absolute disaster with a total offense ranked in the 100s in Year 3.

I'd be happy if Butch is hired after a full, thorough search. But I believe concerns about his offensive track record and history with OCs in college are completely warranted.

 

[LuCane]

Who's gonna tutor them when Dorsey leaves for the NFL in a year or two? Butch gonna bring in Shoop or Coker?

What about the other stud assistants Butch has brought in? His overall record in building staffs is very good.

Name the stud offensive assistants he brought in

Bruce Arians is a pretty good OC.

At Miami, he had Chud, Curtis Johnson (head coach of Tulane) and Don Soldinger.

Arians is an outstanding offensive coach. One of the best in the sport and has been for years. Butch fired him in 2003, had a 3-8 start to the following season, and resigned later that year. Arians has ultimately succeeded everywhere he's been since 1998 with one exception: Cleveland under Butch. One is an extremely aggressive playcaller and the other is a maddeningly conservative gameday coach. They never meshed.

Curtis Johnson's Tulane offense, in his fourth year on the job, is ranked 127th out of 128 teams in yards per play this season. They've won 5 games from 2014-2015. He is awful.

Soldinger and Chud coached under Butch at UM roughly 15 years ago. They obviously fit the criteria since you were asked to name his strongest offensive assistants, but I'm specifically concerned about his track record with OCs in college. The only one he's hired in the past decade is John Shoop, who was an absolute disaster with a total offense ranked in the 100s in Year 3.

I'd be happy if Butch is hired after a full, thorough search. But I believe concerns about his offensive track record and history with OCs in college are completely warranted.

Add in game-day coaching. It's been a weakness and should also be discussed when mentioning Butch's seeming flaws.

 

[Big Sky Cane]

Bruce Arians is a pretty good OC.

At Miami, he had Chud, Curtis Johnson (head coach of Tulane) and Don Soldinger.

And he fired Bruce Arians in 2003....sooooo?

Bruce Arians is still ****ed at Butch Davis after all these years


“Our head coach lost the game,” Arians said. “He called off the dogs on defense. You just don’t let Tommy Maddox sit there and go against a prevent defense. He basically fired [defensive coordinator] Foge Fazio at halftime. Foge was blitzing. We had them beat. They knew we had them beat.”

Funny thing that article points out is Butch isn't just a conservative offensive coach....he's a terribly passive defensive coach too by nature. All you loons calling for an "attacking" 4-3 defense under Butch are gonna be sadly disappointed.

 

[Big Sky Cane]

Funny post in the comments section.

blastfurniss says:
Feb 2, 2011 1:36 PM
I’m glad I’m not the only one still ****ed at Butch Davis. While not newsworthy, as a Browns fan I find it interesting. CBS caught Butch and Fazio arguing on the sidelines as the game came apart. This was the Browns first (and still only) playoff game since the return in 1999. The future looked wide open at that point. But as Arians points out in that interview, Tim Couch’s shoulder was toast from getting pounded playing for an expansion team. Then the team had to purge vets like Earl Holmes who lead them to the playoffs. Two years later Butch was having panic attacks and quit. Yet, he’s the only winner in this story. He gets 12 million bucks from Randy Lerner and goes back to coach college football.

 

[orange&green84]

Bruce Arians is a pretty good OC.

At Miami, he had Chud, Curtis Johnson (head coach of Tulane) and Don Soldinger.

And he fired Bruce Arians in 2003....sooooo?

Bruce Arians is still ****ed at Butch Davis after all these years


“Our head coach lost the game,” Arians said. “He called off the dogs on defense. You just don’t let Tommy Maddox sit there and go against a prevent defense. He basically fired [defensive coordinator] Foge Fazio at halftime. Foge was blitzing. We had them beat. They knew we had them beat.”

Funny thing that article points out is Butch isn't just a conservative offensive coach....he's a terribly passive defensive coach too by nature. All you loons calling for an "attacking" 4-3 defense under Butch are gonna be sadly disappointed.

Butch has a lot of promise when it comes to that of talent evaluation of coaches and players. He can also form a culture that is consistent with winning and leadership. But as pointed out, I have my concerns as well as it relates to gameday coaching. You can't just out talent OSU and Bama to the national title. Playing conservative is what has caused us to lose quite a few games (most noteably FSU last season) while under the Golden era (I'm fully aware awful scheme and playcalling were the main factors).

Butch is on my list for coaches that deserve a shot at being hired. But he is not my first choice (I have him behind Herman, Strong, and Hue Jackson (who's not realistic)).

 

[DMoney]

Bruce Arians is a pretty good OC.

At Miami, he had Chud, Curtis Johnson (head coach of Tulane) and Don Soldinger.

And he fired Bruce Arians in 2003....sooooo?

Bruce Arians is still ****ed at Butch Davis after all these years


“Our head coach lost the game,” Arians said. “He called off the dogs on defense. You just don’t let Tommy Maddox sit there and go against a prevent defense. He basically fired [defensive coordinator] Foge Fazio at halftime. Foge was blitzing. We had them beat. They knew we had them beat.”

Funny thing that article points out is Butch isn't just a conservative offensive coach....he's a terribly passive defensive coach too by nature. All you loons calling for an "attacking" 4-3 defense under Butch are gonna be sadly disappointed.

Fair enough.

But it must also be said that the Browns have only been to the playoffs once in 25 years. That was with Butch and Arians.

 

[JorgieU]

So Mario is coming?

 

[MiamiJoe]

Herman still looks like our best bet but waiting is painful to Canes fans.