Current board mood: $EC or B1GLY ?

[theribdoctor]

No. This is the strangest narrative on this thread.

There are many, many good points being made, but the assumption of better treatment by one of these two leagues is baffling to me.

I just don't see us exiting the ACC any time soon. unfortunately.

 

[Rickd]

Flat out, the Big would relagate us to perrrenial doormat.

Why travel 1100 miles to play games when you can cut that in half and play schools of the same caliber or better in half the distance?

We're talking road trips verse two days in a car or airfare.

Recruiting wise, you just made it simpler for the SEC to take whomever they want. You're trying to do your thing while flying over the SEC wall.

I'm sorry, but if you want the Big, your head is in your ***. The Big isn't anything but the SEC's ***** right now and us g[BGCOLOR=initial]oing there doesn't change that.[/BGCOLOR]

Worst take I have read. Not a program in the Big that UM won't be able to compete with after a couple of added high quality recruiting classes. Games of national viewer interest on a large scale ... UM vs ND, Michigan, PSU, OSU. UM would have more exposure than ever. The SEC? They would do all they could to keep UM down in any manner they can.

 

[Brains]

I just don't see us exiting the ACC any time soon. unfortunately.

I don't know enough specifics behind the scenes, but I do know the money and contract situation.

It's untenable for ACC members. Someone's hand is gonna get forced.

 

[RVACane]

OP, I know it's late in the game, but I wonder how age factors into this decision. I'm guessing those fans 35 years or younger would more likely vote Big 10 and over 35 would lean toward the SEC. As an older guy myself, I'd lean SEC to play Florida again every year (plus, I think FSU is going to the SEC).

Just an observation, but I find it funny people think Miami will be treated fairly by either the SEC or Big 10. The question should be which would treat Miami worse. Maybe I'm paranoid, but I just see them picking Miami strictly for strategic purposes (Big 10 to get into Florida, SEC to prevent the Big 10 from getting into Florida).

I voted BIG and I’m a good bit older than 35

 

[RVACane]

I don't know enough specifics behind the scenes, but I do know the money and contract situation.

It's untenable for ACC members. Someone's hand is gonna get forced.

I’ll ask @TheOriginalCane this as I can’t remember - is there anything in contract law where a contract is so onerous on one side that they can’t do business competitively and it could become illusory or some kind of voidable contract???

I’m thinking that the money is so much less in the ACC compared to the BIG and SEC that we can no longer compete with our competition and therefore will be decimated if forced to remain in that onerous contract

 

[Rickd]

I just don't see us exiting the ACC any time soon. unfortunately.

Well if all of the smoke regarding the "magnificent seven" is accurate there are 7 programs working together to solidify a realistic exit strategy, and add to that ND and also Louisville (who reportedly received a Big 12 invite) and you have 9 programs ... sufficient to vote to dissolve the ACC conference. No conference no exit fee ... then the GOR media rights to ESPN is on shaky ground (ESPN contract is with the conference not the individual schools). Won't be that easy ... certainly litigation by ESPN will be at least threatened ... but say they end up with 10 or more programs who vote to dissolve the ACC ... is ESPN going to bring costly litigation against 10 separate programs? Especially when 4 of those programs most certainly end up in the SEC where ESPN has the media program.

 

[Luke Caneswalker]

like many of us here, I am old school Dade County through and through.

Road games in LA, DC, metro NY

Or missouri, kentucky, Mississippi..,,

Lmaooo what are we talking about.

If all things are equal. BIG10

 

[Rickd]

I voted BIG and I’m a good bit older than 35

Agree .... I can remember some aspects of BEING 35 but that is way back in the rear view mirror. There is so much more involved in THIS realignment opportunity for UM than simply the football aspect. The incremental research funding available due to being part of the Big 10 could take the university to new heights in research facility and staff development. Face it ... in a few years when there are two super conferences that will most likely be 24 teams each ... there will be little if any "recruiting benefit" of one vs the other. It will be like the AFC vs NFC ... same exposure level just different programs.

To me it also makes sense to optimize UM's exposure and brand building as a national brand ... playing games on the West Coast, East Coast and in then SE. That supports the national recruiting model as well.

 

[No_Fly_Zone]

I’ll ask @TheOriginalCane this as I can’t remember - is there anything in contract law where a contract is so onerous on one side that they can’t do business competitively and it could become illusory or some kind of voidable contract???

I’m thinking that the money is so much less in the ACC compared to the BIG and SEC that we can no longer compete with our competition and therefore will be decimated if forced to remain in that onerous contract

There is no legal principle that saves businesses represented by counsel from performing on the bad deals they sign. Money for broadcast rights (even if it is apparently less than market value) is good consideration on both sides and not illusory. If the contract was procured through mistake as to some material fact or misrepresentation of fact, it might be voidable, but "now other schools are making way more" would not qualify. ACC schools looking to exit are likely stuck searching within the contract itself for their out.

Other than that, there is a concept of economic breach. Less a legal doctrine than business philosophy. Basically, if the cost of performing the contract is greater than the benefit received, it may make sense to breach, pay your damages, and engage in better business (if New K Value > Old K Value + Damages).

 

[wdk3618]

SEC for many reasons (in no particular order):

1) It is the best football conference;

2) It would help recruiting the most;

3) We have not played well in cold weather in the past (only our greatest teams were seemingly unaffected by weather; our less-than-stellar teams were heavily affected by it). Could you imagine a bunch of SoFla divas going to Indiana or Purdue (basically bfe) and it's December and their W-L is say 5-4 and they are not really that into it? We've seen that movie before in the El Paso bowl & others and it ain't pretty;

4) There are very few appealing destinations to travel to in the BIG (outside of USC & UCLA). Games against Purdue, Northwestern, Indiana, Butgers in winter in really cold & depressing places etc. Nah...thanks, dawg;

5) Attendance & at atmosphere at HRS would see a major boon from joining the SEC. The SEC would travel well for virtually of their games. That would leave only OOC games against weak opponents at risk of poor attendance. Virtually all other games at HRS would be sold out...and we could sell that on the recruiting trail;

6) Almost every game against an SEC would be of interest to me. Only a handful of games would be in the BIG.

7) Our strength of schedule metrics would be off the charts in all 3 major sports;

8) Our South Florida athletes (fast, explosive, athletic) fit better in the SEC than in the BIG where it's slower, larger and more lumbering players. Remember when Golden tried to "BIG" us in recruiting? It wasn't a fit. Also, it's been feast or famine for us against big physical run-oriented teams like Wisconsin. When elite, we've destroyed teams that were one-dimensional. At other times, they've run a train on us and we could not stop it. How miserable would that be to travel to Wisky in December and sit there in the freezing cold and watch them pound the ball down our throats for 3 hours (note: this won't happen under Mario because the trenches are getting a HUGE upgrade on both sides but it could happen post-Mario in 20 years);

9) When we were elite in the late 80s, we dominated SEC teams like LSU and Missouri by scores like 44-3 (in Baton Rouge no less). Yes, the SEC is more likely to control our fate than the BIG but if we're great there's only so much the refs & the Commissioner can do (in the NIL era). Pre-NIL it would have been a whole different story as the only sacred cows were the current top 5 schools;

10) Games against UF & FSU would be great (assuming FSU also joins);

11) Travel for football isn't that big of a deal because of the limited number of away games each year. Travel for Baseball and Basketball (and non-revenue sports) could be a real burden in the BIG as Baseball plays quite a few games;

12) Can't stand OSU and don't want to be reminded of the tainted Fiasco Bowl every year; and

13) Vandy's a prestigious school academically and it hasn't been hurt by SEC membership.

We fit much better in the SEC in almost every aspect. Two other big factors to consider are: (i) revenue & payouts and (ii) research grants.

1) I keep seeing people say the SEC would help recruiting more than B1G. Why? OSU is not currently taking anybody they want from SoFla? The bottom teams in the SEC struggle to recruit just like the bottom teams in the B1G. IMO, some recruits will be intrigued by the more "national" B1G, playing in and around LA, Chicago, NYC etc. Not everybody wants to play in the south and the bigotry that comes with some of the SEC towns.

2) Few appealing destinations? Yes, I am biased as a UM grad raised in Chicago who moved back to Chicago after grad, but this is just not true. You list Northwestern? Chicago is not appealing? Quick El ride north. They are in the process of likely building a beautiful new stadium too. You list IU? Bloomington is another incredible college town. These aren't depressing places to the people who live there (ok, I have been to West Lafayette and may give you Purdue). Madison/Iowa City/Columbus/Ann Arbor/Champaign/Minneapolis all have things to offer. I have been to many of the SEC towns, and other than warmer for the last few weeks of the season, how do they offer more? Yes, Nashville and soon to be Austin in the SEC are world class towns. Fayetteville? Starkville? Auburn? Gainesville? College Station? Columbia? Norman? If the B1G locations don't intrigue you then "nah, dawg," no need for you to attend any games.

3) Enough with being scared of playing in the cold. As many others have said, we may get 1-2 games at the end of the year with less than ideal temperatures. Plus, Mario is starting to recruit a more national roster.

4) Our SOS "would be off the charts" in the SEC. Again, the same would be said if we were in the B1G.

5) Attendance at HRS will be better being in the SEC? You do not think B1G fans will want to travel down to SoFla in November for a game? Please. If anything, travel may be easier for B1G fans because airport situation is generally easier for B1G schools.

6) Can't stand OSU? What better than to play them at least once every 3 years in the B1G then?

My vote was obviously for the B1G and I respect people who prefer SEC, I just don't agree with a bunch of the narratives surrounding why people think SEC > B1G.

 

[kccanefan]

Dude…first of all, if you can’t come correct, don’t comment on my post at all. My post was about the POLL and why it ultimately will result in Pro B1G over the SEC. Has nothing to do with the kids on the teams or their nationalities…so try frickin READING the next time before coming sideways at a poster.

Good day Sir.

I can read and comprehend just fine. You were trying to inject some bs political talking point into something it didn't need to be. In addition, further make yourself look foolish implying how non diverse "The South" is and their fans. You've done the same **** in other threads. Give it a rest.

 

[Brains]

I’ll ask @TheOriginalCane this as I can’t remember - is there anything in contract law where a contract is so onerous on one side that they can’t do business competitively and it could become illusory or some kind of voidable contract???

I’m thinking that the money is so much less in the ACC compared to the BIG and SEC that we can no longer compete with our competition and therefore will be decimated if forced to remain in that onerous contract

I don't think so, but I suspect that'd be a fact issue during the damages stage in the event of an anticipatory breach.

 

[Brains]

1) I keep seeing people say the SEC would help recruiting more than B1G. Why? OSU is not currently taking anybody they want from SoFla? The bottom teams in the SEC struggle to recruit just like the bottom teams in the B1G. IMO, some recruits will be intrigued by the more "national" B1G, playing in and around LA, Chicago, NYC etc. Not everybody wants to play in the south and the bigotry that comes with some of the SEC towns.

2) Few appealing destinations? Yes, I am biased as a UM grad raised in Chicago who moved back to Chicago after grad, but this is just not true. You list Northwestern? Chicago is not appealing? Quick El ride north. They are in the process of likely building a beautiful new stadium too. You list IU? Bloomington is another incredible college town. These aren't depressing places to the people who live there (ok, I have been to West Lafayette and may give you Purdue). Madison/Iowa City/Columbus/Ann Arbor/Champaign/Minneapolis all have things to offer. I have been to many of the SEC towns, and other than warmer for the last few weeks of the season, how do they offer more? Yes, Nashville and soon to be Austin in the SEC are world class towns. Fayetteville? Starkville? Auburn? Gainesville? College Station? Columbia? Norman? If the B1G locations don't intrigue you then "nah, dawg," no need for you to attend any games.

3) Enough with being scared of playing in the cold. As many others have said, we may get 1-2 games at the end of the year with less than ideal temperatures. Plus, Mario is starting to recruit a more national roster.

4) Our SOS "would be off the charts" in the SEC. Again, the same would be said if we were in the B1G.

5) Attendance at HRS will be better being in the SEC? You do not think B1G fans will want to travel down to SoFla in November for a game? Please. If anything, travel may be easier for B1G fans because airport situation is generally easier for B1G schools.

6) Can't stand OSU? What better than to play them at least once every 3 years in the B1G then?

My vote was obviously for the B1G and I respect people who prefer SEC, I just don't agree with a bunch of the narratives surrounding why people think SEC > B1G.

It's a rational argument.

I'll just say that people growing up in Florida do not give a **** about Chicago or Minneapolis. I get that they are big cities, but they are not appealing to a Florida native in the slightest.

I'd wager that 90% of people I grew up with will never set foot in Minnesota or Illinois, or even think about these places.

It's not a matter of dislike, it's just not a place people think about living or visiting.

 

[RVACane]

There is no legal principle that saves businesses represented by counsel from performing on the bad deals they sign. Money for broadcast rights (even if it is apparently less than market value) is good consideration on both sides and not illusory. If the contract was procured through mistake as to some material fact or misrepresentation of fact, it might be voidable, but "now other schools are making way more" would not qualify. ACC schools looking to exit are likely stuck searching within the contract itself for their out.

Other than that, there is a concept of economic breach. Less a legal doctrine than business philosophy. Basically, if the cost of performing the contract is greater than the benefit received, it may make sense to breach, pay your damages, and engage in better business (if New K Value > Old K Value + Damages).

Thanks. I was literally looking for anything - but once you start reaching for equitable arguments it’s usually not a good sign.

I think the concept I was looking for is simply economic breach.

 

[E1k]

Im not saying we get a welcome hand job from the B1G, but I think your sweeping a lot under the rug there with that statement.

If we are serious about football, yes. We will be good anywhere. Of course. But you are smart enough to know that the SEC does not like us and would love to control us.

Would you still believe your statement if I swapped out the word SEC and replaced it with NCAA?

No, i think miami fans are delusional at times with think we are still hated like we were in our glory days. The reality is we haven’t been **** in forever and its been nobody’s fault but ours.

 

[E1k]

I am distrustful of those southern gentlemen. I think they’d mess with our recruiting location advantage if we did well. I don’t trust em for a second and no…

View attachment 241006

Don’t think if we are one of the only big schools in the south it wont hurt? U think we get negative recruited now? I think it would be worse then

 

[E1k]

There’s zero southern about Miami. I was born and raised there and lived in the south, mostly Virginia, for many years. No one I’ve known looks at us as part of the south. They laugh when I say we’re in the south though.

Miami is miami, the further north u go in florida the more southern it is. But of course there are some spots here that are similar but for the most part it’s just a melting pot

 

[Hold My Beer]

Wherever the most money and best branding is

For just football i rather sec

Also can we stop with the sec hates us narrative or wants to control us **** lol we have stunk forever stop deflecting, if we are serious about football we will be good no matter where we go

Thank you!

 

[Rickd]

There is no legal principle that saves businesses represented by counsel from performing on the bad deals they sign. Money for broadcast rights (even if it is apparently less than market value) is good consideration on both sides and not illusory. If the contract was procured through mistake as to some material fact or misrepresentation of fact, it might be voidable, but "now other schools are making way more" would not qualify. ACC schools looking to exit are likely stuck searching within the contract itself for their out.

Other than that, there is a concept of economic breach. Less a legal doctrine than business philosophy. Basically, if the cost of performing the contract is greater than the benefit received, it may make sense to breach, pay your damages, and engage in better business (if New K Value > Old K Value + Damages).

The reality is nobody on this board so far has been able to provide a copy of the NEW GOR which is reportedly a 36-40 page document as compared to the 2013 original that was 4 pages. I did read comments that were posted on another forum by a media "journalist" who said that he HAD read the entire document and in HIS OPINION it was not IRON CLAD but rather MALLEABLE due to actually containing some wording referencing monies received by programs "needed to be of a level similar to other programs of like stature in other conferences". There might be some wording in the agreement that creates a degree of "exit ability" and you combine that with 8-10 programs voting to dissolve the ACC Conference and then ESPN is in a very tough place as far as trying to "hold onto" media rights for a non existent conference.

 

[WaterburyCane]

No, i think miami fans are delusional at times with think we are still hated like we were in our glory days. The reality is we haven’t been **** in forever and its been nobody’s fault but ours.

I cant get down with this E1K. The NCAA does not like us and will always press their foot on our throats a little harder at any opportunity they can get. Thats not delusional. Thats fact. It doesnt matter whether we are champs or chumps either.