forums

Calais Campbell to the Ravens

bshaw28 said:
This shows both why the Jags selling everything might be both good and bad on paper.

Getting a stash of draft picks as assets and cap space looks great on paper. But they're a badly run franchise that might just draft poorly and overpay for free agents. There's a good chance they're tearing things down just to continue the same cycle.

It reminds me of the Canes firing Coker only to hire Shannon. Or firing Shannon only to hire Golden - and so on.

It'll be interesting to see ow the Dolphins & Jags full teardowns play out.
Click to expand...
That’s good and all trying to accumulate picks but go about it the right way. The haul they got for Ramsey is in line with compensation that they should get. I know campbell is 34 years old but they should have at least got a 3rd round pick for him or something. They basically gave aj bouye and Campbell away for nothing pretty much
 
Advertisement
brock said:
That’s good and all trying to accumulate picks but go about it the right way. The haul they got for Ramsey is in line with compensation that they should get. I know campbell is 34 years old but they should have at least got a 3rd round pick for him or something. They basically gave aj bouye and Campbell away for nothing pretty much
Click to expand...

AJ Bouye is average now. They got more for him than Marcus Peters.

Jalen Ramsey for that package, plus the Rams have to pay him...I think the Jaguars made out good on that deal. He's really good, but a headache, and when he gets into his feelings, he's not THAT good. PFF rated him at a 71 PFF Grade, which is like above average for your position. I've outlined on this website before...CBs, high end CBs, are actually easy to acquire. They aren't foundational pieces to your roster and should prioritized a bit lower. They took Jalen Ramsey over Patrick Mahomes and Deshaun Watson, man. You just don't do that, no matter if Ramsey is a Hall of Famer or not.

Calais Campbell is getting up there in age and has a monster contract. You weren't getting anything close to a 3rd for him. I think the Jaguars were lucky to get a 5th. I expected him to be cut, tbh.
 
I wouldn't touch Wiinston as a FA... Poor decision making skills in clutch moments. That will not improve.
 
BoxingRobes said:
He also rates in the bottom 5 in negatively graded throws, per PFF metrics. A "few handful of boneheaded throws" is disingenuous at best...a lie at worst. Its just not true.

You can't have it both ways. You can't dismiss INTs completely, which you essentially are for the splash plays.

Article by the athletic from November that puts into context his INTs. While not all of them are his fault, a significant number of them are.

theathletic.com

Who’s to blame? Nitpicking Jameis Winston’s 18 interceptions this season

Coach Bruce Arians says that the Buccaneers quarterback isn't responsible for almost half of his giveaways this year. Is he right?
theathletic.com theathletic.com

You've got plays like this



and like this



or like this



or like this



or like this, where he has no idea what he's reading post-snap.



He led the league in every which way you could throw an INT

https://twitter.com/PaulHembo/status/1235929593787363334

Winston is definitely better than a guy like Bridgewater, but he's not that good, man and a lot of is his own fault.
Click to expand...


This is exactly what I'm talking about. I'm glad you did this because I will "dismiss" every one of these plays.

The 1st play by Leonard is exactly what I'm talking about. 3rd & 10 and the Colts send 8-man all-out pressure because of down & distance and game prep knowing that Arians likes 5/6 man protection. Leonard makes an incredible play disengaging from Jensen post snap and backtracking 5 yards to pick off the hot route. Any QB in the league makes that throw. That's just being outcoached and outplayed, and that's the risk of having no run game and relying on a vertical passing game for ~50 dropbacks a game. It's not sustainable with ANY QB and Arians knows that.

2nd play should never have been an INT. Yes Winston stares down the throw and makes what appears to be the wrong read. However the stick route to Brate is too predictable in that spot and Jones is squatting on it. Even then I don't blame the coaches or Winston. Brate is upright with his pads, doesn't drive and snap back to sell the upfield release, doesn't run the right depth, and then doesn't come back to the ball. Brate admitted that he screwed up after the fact, just like when he dropped a 4th down pass that cost a different game. He will likely take a pay cut or get cut because of plays like this.

Play #3 is CLASSIC Bucs. It looks like Cover 3, Evans runs a lazy stop route on the outside as usual and Ryan ignores him to jump inside where Godwin stops his route for god knows what reason because the seam route to #2 vs Cover 3 is a gimme with the safety widened out to the other side. General rule: when a QB gets picked and no WR is nearby it's almost always the WR's fault.

Play #4 I need All-22 to analyze but regardless it's desperation mode down 4 at your 36 with 25 seconds left. You have to push the ball downfield there and it looked like he just wasn't on the same page as Perriman. Nothing worse than having a QB who dumps it off and guarantees the loss in that spot - there are tons of those in the league like Bridgewater, for example. Winston has made many huge plays by being aggressive in these situations, fwiw.

The last one is the same situation as the 1st play. On top of that it's a total ****show by Perriman. It's a Drive concept and Perriman is supposed to run hard to occupy the underneath defender and either clear out space for RoJo or run free as the uncovered man. Instead he just jogs and points and draws the defense to the throw. General rule #2: when 2 receivers are in the same spot someone ****ed up BIG TIME!

Now if these are the 'worst' Winston plays you can find then what does that tell you about the more mundane turnovers he had? It's more of the same. Again, he made a handful of bad throws, maybe 2 handfuls if you include non-INTs that probably should have been picked, but that's totally reasonable considering the circumstances. He's absolutely a guy you can win big with in a better scheme with better defense and special teams. Jimmy Garoppolo went to the Super Bowl for ****'s sakes...
 
Advertisement
HighSeas said:
This is exactly what I'm talking about. I'm glad you did this because I will "dismiss" every one of these plays.

The 1st play by Leonard is exactly what I'm talking about. 3rd & 10 and the Colts send 8-man all-out pressure because of down & distance and game prep knowing that Arians likes 5/6 man protection. Leonard makes an incredible play disengaging from Jensen post snap and backtracking 5 yards to pick off the hot route. Any QB in the league makes that throw. That's just being outcoached and outplayed, and that's the risk of having no run game and relying on a vertical passing game for ~50 dropbacks a game. It's not sustainable with ANY QB and Arians knows that.

2nd play should never have been an INT. Yes Winston stares down the throw and makes what appears to be the wrong read. However the stick route to Brate is too predictable in that spot and Jones is squatting on it. Even then I don't blame the coaches or Winston. Brate is upright with his pads, doesn't drive and snap back to sell the upfield release, doesn't run the right depth, and then doesn't come back to the ball. Brate admitted that he screwed up after the fact, just like when he dropped a 4th down pass that cost a different game. He will likely take a pay cut or get cut because of plays like this.

Play #3 is CLASSIC Bucs. It looks like Cover 3, Evans runs a lazy stop route on the outside as usual and Ryan ignores him to jump inside where Godwin stops his route for god knows what reason because the seam route to #2 vs Cover 3 is a gimme with the safety widened out to the other side. General rule: when a QB gets picked and no WR is nearby it's almost always the WR's fault.

Play #4 I need All-22 to analyze but regardless it's desperation mode down 4 at your 36 with 25 seconds left. You have to push the ball downfield there and it looked like he just wasn't on the same page as Perriman. Nothing worse than having a QB who dumps it off and guarantees the loss in that spot - there are tons of those in the league like Bridgewater, for example. Winston has made many huge plays by being aggressive in these situations, fwiw.

The last one is the same situation as the 1st play. On top of that it's a total ****show by Perriman. It's a Drive concept and Perriman is supposed to run hard to occupy the underneath defender and either clear out space for RoJo or run free as the uncovered man. Instead he just jogs and points and draws the defense to the throw. General rule #2: when 2 receivers are in the same spot someone ****ed up BIG TIME!

Now if these are the 'worst' Winston plays you can find then what does that tell you about the more mundane turnovers he had? It's more of the same. Again, he made a handful of bad throws, maybe 2 handfuls if you include non-INTs that probably should have been picked, but that's totally reasonable considering the circumstances. He's absolutely a guy you can win big with in a better scheme with better defense and special teams. Jimmy Garoppolo went to the Super Bowl for ****'s sakes...
Click to expand...

You're absolutely writing fan fiction on your analysis of those plays. Jesus. lol. I don't even need to respond to each of your bits of wild analysis. You aren't the smartest guy in the room. You're going galaxy brain on some very simple plays with very simple results. You don't need to be Bill Walsh to understand that Jameis Winston makes bonehead decisions and throws some terrible balls a lot.

PFF says he makes a ton of bonehead decisions. Advanced analytics says he makes a ton of bonehead decisions at a historically bad level. The eyetest WITH VIDEO shows he makes bonehead decisions.

BUT...HighSeas goes galaxy brain to discredit them? Yeah man, good luck with that. There isn't a single piece of real evidence that you've shown in this thread to support your argument. You're just making up stories to suit your narrative. Have fun.
 
HighSeas said:
This is exactly what I'm talking about. I'm glad you did this because I will "dismiss" every one of these plays.

The 1st play by Leonard is exactly what I'm talking about. 3rd & 10 and the Colts send 8-man all-out pressure because of down & distance and game prep knowing that Arians likes 5/6 man protection. Leonard makes an incredible play disengaging from Jensen post snap and backtracking 5 yards to pick off the hot route. Any QB in the league makes that throw. That's just being outcoached and outplayed, and that's the risk of having no run game and relying on a vertical passing game for ~50 dropbacks a game. It's not sustainable with ANY QB and Arians knows that.

2nd play should never have been an INT. Yes Winston stares down the throw and makes what appears to be the wrong read. However the stick route to Brate is too predictable in that spot and Jones is squatting on it. Even then I don't blame the coaches or Winston. Brate is upright with his pads, doesn't drive and snap back to sell the upfield release, doesn't run the right depth, and then doesn't come back to the ball. Brate admitted that he screwed up after the fact, just like when he dropped a 4th down pass that cost a different game. He will likely take a pay cut or get cut because of plays like this.

Play #3 is CLASSIC Bucs. It looks like Cover 3, Evans runs a lazy stop route on the outside as usual and Ryan ignores him to jump inside where Godwin stops his route for god knows what reason because the seam route to #2 vs Cover 3 is a gimme with the safety widened out to the other side. General rule: when a QB gets picked and no WR is nearby it's almost always the WR's fault.

Play #4 I need All-22 to analyze but regardless it's desperation mode down 4 at your 36 with 25 seconds left. You have to push the ball downfield there and it looked like he just wasn't on the same page as Perriman. Nothing worse than having a QB who dumps it off and guarantees the loss in that spot - there are tons of those in the league like Bridgewater, for example. Winston has made many huge plays by being aggressive in these situations, fwiw.

The last one is the same situation as the 1st play. On top of that it's a total ****show by Perriman. It's a Drive concept and Perriman is supposed to run hard to occupy the underneath defender and either clear out space for RoJo or run free as the uncovered man. Instead he just jogs and points and draws the defense to the throw. General rule #2: when 2 receivers are in the same spot someone ****ed up BIG TIME!

Now if these are the 'worst' Winston plays you can find then what does that tell you about the more mundane turnovers he had? It's more of the same. Again, he made a handful of bad throws, maybe 2 handfuls if you include non-INTs that probably should have been picked, but that's totally reasonable considering the circumstances. He's absolutely a guy you can win big with in a better scheme with better defense and special teams. Jimmy Garoppolo went to the Super Bowl for ****'s sakes...
Click to expand...

giphy.gif
 
Advertisement




@BS85 with 9 picks in this draft, I think we're going to draft at least 2 LB's, 2 WR's, a Guard, a Tackle, another RB & a TE.

I'm hoping Kenneth Murray is still available late in the 1st round but I doubt it, I wouldn't be surprised if we traded down out of the 1st & loaded up on 2nd & 3rd picks, probably get a pick or two for the 21 draft as well.

I don't think we draft a WR 1st round with their being a ton of depth & speed at WR this draft, but if we stay put at 28 I think we go with the top ILB on the board or possibly a WR like Laviska Shenault, Denzel Mims or Tee Higgins.
 
HighSeas said:
This is exactly what I'm talking about. I'm glad you did this because I will "dismiss" every one of these plays.

The 1st play by Leonard is exactly what I'm talking about. 3rd & 10 and the Colts send 8-man all-out pressure because of down & distance and game prep knowing that Arians likes 5/6 man protection. Leonard makes an incredible play disengaging from Jensen post snap and backtracking 5 yards to pick off the hot route. Any QB in the league makes that throw. That's just being outcoached and outplayed, and that's the risk of having no run game and relying on a vertical passing game for ~50 dropbacks a game. It's not sustainable with ANY QB and Arians knows that.

2nd play should never have been an INT. Yes Winston stares down the throw and makes what appears to be the wrong read. However the stick route to Brate is too predictable in that spot and Jones is squatting on it. Even then I don't blame the coaches or Winston. Brate is upright with his pads, doesn't drive and snap back to sell the upfield release, doesn't run the right depth, and then doesn't come back to the ball. Brate admitted that he screwed up after the fact, just like when he dropped a 4th down pass that cost a different game. He will likely take a pay cut or get cut because of plays like this.

Play #3 is CLASSIC Bucs. It looks like Cover 3, Evans runs a lazy stop route on the outside as usual and Ryan ignores him to jump inside where Godwin stops his route for god knows what reason because the seam route to #2 vs Cover 3 is a gimme with the safety widened out to the other side. General rule: when a QB gets picked and no WR is nearby it's almost always the WR's fault.

Play #4 I need All-22 to analyze but regardless it's desperation mode down 4 at your 36 with 25 seconds left. You have to push the ball downfield there and it looked like he just wasn't on the same page as Perriman. Nothing worse than having a QB who dumps it off and guarantees the loss in that spot - there are tons of those in the league like Bridgewater, for example. Winston has made many huge plays by being aggressive in these situations, fwiw.

The last one is the same situation as the 1st play. On top of that it's a total ****show by Perriman. It's a Drive concept and Perriman is supposed to run hard to occupy the underneath defender and either clear out space for RoJo or run free as the uncovered man. Instead he just jogs and points and draws the defense to the throw. General rule #2: when 2 receivers are in the same spot someone ****ed up BIG TIME!

Now if these are the 'worst' Winston plays you can find then what does that tell you about the more mundane turnovers he had? It's more of the same. Again, he made a handful of bad throws, maybe 2 handfuls if you include non-INTs that probably should have been picked, but that's totally reasonable considering the circumstances. He's absolutely a guy you can win big with in a better scheme with better defense and special teams. Jimmy Garoppolo went to the Super Bowl for ****'s sakes...
Click to expand...
These guys are funny af. You are breaking it down like someone who watches film instead of someone who just watches highlights or twitter clips yet what you say doesn’t fit the narrative. No real evidence but everything you said can be seen in those clips by anyone who isn’t just looking for the end result. Most of these guys won’t even bother watching that video I posted from Michael Clayton to get a better understanding. They just see the end results and automatically blame it all in Jameis.
 
Liberty City El said:




@BS85 with 9 picks in this draft, I think we're going to draft at least 2 LB's, 2 WR's, a Guard, a Tackle, another RB & a TE.

I'm hoping Kenneth Murray is still available late in the 1st round but I doubt it, I wouldn't be surprised if we traded down out of the 1st & loaded up on 2nd & 3rd picks, probably get a pick or two for the 21 draft as well.

I don't think we draft a WR 1st round with their being a ton of depth & speed at WR this draft, but if we stay put at 28 I think we go with the top ILB on the board or possibly a WR like Laviska Shenault, Denzel Mims or Tee Higgins.
Click to expand...

Yep, really hoping they find some speed at receiver to help Brown open it up. That's been the one position they aren't as good at drafting historically but that may have changed. Flacco didn't really make anyone look better (during the regular season, he was a beast in the playoffs).

If Murray isn't there, they'll probably draft some random guy in the 4th round who turns into a pro bowler and then gets a huge contract with another team. They've done that several times.

I'm excited about the moves they made, it should make it even easier for them to draft the best available player, which they basically do anyway. I'm ready for the season to start so I can hear how ****** Lamar is while he puts up numbers that literally nobody else alive could do.
 
Advertisement
plantcity3 said:
These guys are funny af. You are breaking it down like someone who watches film instead of someone who just watches highlights or twitter clips yet what you say doesn’t fit the narrative. No real evidence but everything you said can be seen in those clips by anyone who isn’t just looking for the end result. Most of these guys won’t even bother watching that video I posted from Michael Clayton to get a better understanding. They just see the end results and automatically blame it all in Jameis.
Click to expand...

Yeah they're always eager to disagree with me but when I lay it all out with deep analysis they shrink and spit out generic platitudes. They can't address the points I make because they want to stay anchored to their lazy takes and they don't have the knowledge to break down film properly. It's all good I know who the wannabe film guys are on here vs. the real analysts. Sadly there are more of the former than the latter, but the real ones appreciate what I provide. I can always just ignore list all the rest.
 
HighSeas said:
Yeah they're always eager to disagree with me but when I lay it all out with deep analysis they shrink and spit out generic platitudes. They can't address the points I make because they want to stay anchored to their lazy takes and they don't have the knowledge to break down film properly. It's all good I know who the wannabe film guys are on here vs. the real analysts. Sadly there are more of the former than the latter, but the real ones appreciate what I provide. I can always just ignore list all the rest.
Click to expand...

Brah aint nobody breaking down all 700 interceptions that bum has thrown.

Every play can be argued down like that when you watch film...this person aint do that right, that one missed the chip,etc... The fact still remains dude is a turnover machine and every excuse in the world aint changing that.

I do ...check for all of your post though because i know your knowledgable and you bring alot to the board. Im just gonna troll the **** out of you for caping for Jameis Winston...ya hate to see it.
 
gogeta4 said:
Brah aint nobody breaking down all 700 interceptions that bum has thrown.

Every play can be argued down like that when you watch film...this person aint do that right, that one missed the chip,etc... The fact still remains dude is a turnover machine and every excuse in the world aint changing that.

I do ...check for all of your post though because i know your knowledgable and you bring alot to the board. Im just gonna troll the **** out of you for caping for Jameis Winston...ya hate to see it.
Click to expand...

Yeah it's not a Winston exclusive thing...most NFL INTs aren't the QB's fault. Winston has a ton more because of context and because he's aggressive. I think 12-18 INTs a year is what you hope for with him unless you build the offense through the run game.

5-6 years ago if you told me I'd be caping for him like this I'd never believe it.

Just need Brady to Chargers and we good though. Bridgewater off the market.
 
Advertisement
HighSeas said:
Wrong

Wrong

Wrong

Wrong

Always hilarious when people who watched 0 (ZERO) Bucs game last season, probably ZERO the last 5 years think they're authorized to have takes on Winston and the Bucs. You're a well-meaning dude so I'll break it down for you instead of just leaving it at that.

1. Winston led PFF in positively graded throws since 2015. He makes multiple big time throws every game especially anticipatory throws in the intermediate areas. Those are value-added plays. Last year under Arians the big breakthrough was his deep ball which was very good and resolved the 1 issue I had with Winston in prior years. That moved me solidly into the pro-Winston camp.

2. The Bucs OL is a decent pass protection unit but still gives up a ton of pressures. Winston is extremely sturdy and durable and excels at avoiding pressure and keeping plays alive. He takes some bad sacks but that's the price you pay for having a QB who extends plays. Brady, Bridgewater, Rivers, etc would get snapped in half and/or get sacked 8+ times a game in the circumstances Winston played through the last 2 years.

3. As alluded to above, the Bucs had a very predictable pass-heavy offense last year. They had one of the highest pass rates out of shotgun and one of the highest run rates under center with a very vanilla unsuccessful run game. So the offense had no fusion between run and pass game and defenses could key on the under center inside run game and then use exotic coverages to exploit the shotgun passing game. Late in the season corners were squatting on out breaks from reduced splits and DCs were running double A gap zone looks with DL and LBs dropping into the hot reads. That falls on the coaching staff for being outschemed.

4. Winston had bad luck. Besides the scheme issues there were tons of tipped INTs from drops, tons of receivers running bad routes or wrong routes, and very few dropped INTs. Winston was getting a lot of positive buzz from the media until the last 2 weeks where 3 of the top 4 receivers on the team were injured and he was playing through a knee and thumb injury along with the standard vision issues. Good luck throwing 40+ times a game to Justin Watson and co...yet Winston helped Breshad Perriman put up Julio Jones numbers. Multiple people did thorough breakdowns of Winston's INTs and found that most of them were attributed to other factors than Winston. On the flipside the Bucs dropped by far the most INTs in the league. There were also 2 games lost directly by the kicking game (what else is new) which is the difference between 9-7 and 7-9.

Winston is being scapegoated by the Bucs because the owners don't like him, he's divisive with the fans, ticket sales are poor and Arians knows that his scheme was a failure last year and dumping Winston deflects from his mistakes. It's easy to say "we can't win with 30 INTs" when you know that you didn't play complementary football and changed need to be made. There's a reason the team has signaled their intention of drafting RB and RT in the 1st 2 rounds - throwing the ball 40-50 times a game is unsustainable and any QB would throw a lot of picks in that scenario. Letting Winston go is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Click to expand...

How about the 31 INTs the defense dropped
 


This is a good move imo, Carr is way past his prime & was beat regularly in critical moments last season, vs the Chiefs, Browns & Titans.

Anthony Averett can step up in that role as 3rd corner & Car had essentially been moved to Safety once we traded for Marucs Peters anyway.

Plus with having two 2nd round, two 3rd round & two 4th round picks we can draft another Corner like Jeff Gladney, Bryce Hall or Kindle Vildor with one of those picks.
 
Advertisement
Back
Top