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Bigger heist- 1988 or 2002?

TheOriginalCane said:
1988 was a CLEARLY ERRONEOUS call that would have been overturned if there was a replay review system (the refs thought the 4th and 7 play from the 11 was "4th and goal" and they gave the ball to ND on DOWNS, not as a "fumble").

2002 was a horrible judgement call, but it could not have been overturned on replay.

There have been lots of bad judgement calls on Pass Interference in both college football and the NFL.

But there are very few horribly botched 4th down/5th down plays.

The 2002 Fiesta Bowl call might sting more, because it was (or should have been) the final play of the National Championship, but the 1988 botched 4th down call was the more egregious "heist".
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After the game the referees admitted they blew the call. They couldn't even agree what had happened. At the time, they had call it a fumble even though Gary was clearly down and the ball came out as he was stretching and it impacted the ground. Then they tried to explain that it did not matter because it was a turnover on downs. Gary clearly picked up the first down and it would have been first and goal at the 2. Worst hometown call I've ever seen. It was disgraceful.
 
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Pentagon Cane said:
After the game the referees admitted they blew the call. They couldn't even agree what had happened. At the time, they had call it a fumble even though Gary was clearly down and the ball came out as he was stretching and it impacted the ground. Then they tried to explain that it did not matter because it was a turnover on downs. Gary clearly picked up the first down and it would have been first and goal at the 2. Worst hometown call I've ever seen. It was disgraceful.
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They never called it a fumble (Holtz called it a fumble).

The ball was "recovered" at the 3 yard line. But the refs didn't spot the ball at the 3. The refs spotted the ball at the 1, where Gary's "knee was down".

Idiot refs gave the ball to ND on downs, even though we picked up a first down.
 
caneinorlando said:
That's not true...Testeverde wasn't checking out anything. It was Testerverde who kept pleading with JJ....Very same thing happened with the Fins...Marino wanted an Air Attack...JJ a run game...only difference was, Marino "Was" changing the calls at the LOS....
No way would Testerverde have shown that total disregard to JJ and gotten away with it.
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I’ve heard it both ways.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
They never called it a fumble (Holtz called it a fumble).

The ball was "recovered" at the 3 yard line. But the refs didn't spot the ball at the 3. The refs spotted the ball at the 1, where Gary's "knee was down".

Idiot refs gave the ball to ND on downs, even though we picked up a first down.
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An excerpt from the LA Times article I just pulled up. In any case, it was a real fluster****.

"An unnamed official who worked the game admitted that the call had been wrong, according to a report in the Miami News. The newspaper said the official is from the Collegiate Independent Football Officials Assn. and asked not to be identified because the officials group does not permit them to make comments on their calls."

“There was confusion as to whether there was a fumble or not, but there was also a great question about giving Notre Dame the football over on downs,” the News quoted the official as saying. “That’s why they got the football. There was no fumble. The ruling was the ball went over on downs. We were wrong in doing it, but the truth is we just had a very bad day.”

"The official play-by-play sheet, however, said the ball went over to Notre Dame on a fumble recovery by Stonebreaker. No mention was made of Notre Dame getting the ball on downs, and officials interviewed by pool reporters after the game said no such thing happened, regardless of what Johnson and Walsh say they were told."
 
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5Rings&an Asterisk said:
Ohio State. As bad as the call against Notre Dame was, refs miss stuff. Against Ohio Statr, the ref “replayed it in his head.” WTF does that even mean? Having said that, We couldn’t get out of our own way. We had 7 turnovers against Notre Dame and 5 against Ohio State.
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I never have heard of another game where the refs have thought it was a 4th and goal when it actually wasn’t.
 
Pentagon Cane said:
An excerpt from the LA Times article I just pulled up. In any case, it was a real fluster****.

"An unnamed official who worked the game admitted that the call had been wrong, according to a report in the Miami News. The newspaper said the official is from the Collegiate Independent Football Officials Assn. and asked not to be identified because the officials group does not permit them to make comments on their calls."

“There was confusion as to whether there was a fumble or not, but there was also a great question about giving Notre Dame the football over on downs,” the News quoted the official as saying. “That’s why they got the football. There was no fumble. The ruling was the ball went over on downs. We were wrong in doing it, but the truth is we just had a very bad day.”

"The official play-by-play sheet, however, said the ball went over to Notre Dame on a fumble recovery by Stonebreaker. No mention was made of Notre Dame getting the ball on downs, and officials interviewed by pool reporters after the game said no such thing happened, regardless of what Johnson and Walsh say they were told."
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Yes. There was also an article in the Sun-Sentinel that indicated that the two different groups of refs (half of them were from CIFOA) mistakenly thought it was 4th and goal.

Mass confusion. I know it is easy for some to fault JJ for not calling a TO, but the refs were literally saying and doing two completely different things. There was no precedent for review, even if a TO would have been called.

I know the Terry Porter/Ohio Taint call did more instantaneous damage, but it was always a judgement call and Porter was never going to overturn it. The split-squad/Notre Dame call was sheer madness. Nobody knew what they were doing, everyone gave an inconsistent explanation, and to this day nobody actually knows what happened.
 
caneinorlando said:
That's not true...Testeverde wasn't checking out anything. It was Testerverde who kept pleading with JJ....Very same thing happened with the Fins...Marino wanted an Air Attack...JJ a run game...only difference was, Marino "Was" changing the calls at the LOS....
No way would Testerverde have shown that total disregard to JJ and gotten away with it.
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My sources are from the people involved with the team and I've always found them credible but it could've been either way. Bottom line if Highsmith gets more carries PSU could not contain him so fewer TO's and we win that game.
 
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To be honest, it's extremely obvious that Glenn Sharpe commits a face mask penalty against Chris Gamble on the 4th and 3 while the ball is still in the air. Especially under the pre-2008 rules, which outlawed even incidental face masks. If OSU fans want to argue that their title isn't tainted, that's what they should argue. (Rather than citing the regulation play with the delay of game.)

IDK if a face mask penalty should have been called, given that it had no impact on the play. But it would have been better than calling pass interference.
 
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ddann said:
Again, Cleveland crossed the plane.

That was a TD and that’s all there is to it.
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But I leave it at this...

If they thought his knee was down, WE STILL SHOULD HAVE HAD THE FIRST DOWN and four chances to punch it in.

Losing the ball on, literally, the only botched "fourth and seven/fourth and goal" mixup that anyone can remember is...unacceptable.

We've heard of 5th down mistakes. Guy forgets to change the down on the sticks.

We've never heard of confusing 4th and 7 for 4th and goal. The guys with the sticks did nothing wrong. The refs on the field were idiots.
 
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TheOriginalCane said:
But I leave it at this...

If they thought his knee was down, WE STILL SHOULD HAVE HAD THE FIRST DOWN and four chances to punch it in.

Losing the ball on, literally, the only botched "fourth and seven/fourth and goal" mixup that anyone can remember is...unacceptable.
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Totally agree.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
No, that's what is crazy. If we were at the 1, it would be a bit easier to possibly confuse 4th and something with 4th and goal.

But from the 11, and with chains on the sidelines, how can you blow that? If it is "and goal", they get rid of the 10 yard chain and sticks, and you ONLY have the one stick that spots the ball.

COLOSSAL mistake. Unbelievable mistake. Hard to believe that the guys holding the sticks didn't say something to the refs.
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Where do the chain gang guys come from for collage games? Aren't they local?
 
I do wonder if the correct call was made on the Clarett strip of Sean Taylor. Clarett seems to have about 80% possession of the ball when the play ended and Taylor had about 20% possession. IDK who’s supposed to get the ball under that circumstance, or if the rule book is even clear about it.
 
2002 all the way. Freaking Herbstreit and Eddie George were next to that endzone pleading with ****less Terry Porter to throw the flag. Herbstreit actually came on a chat session on Grassy.com to try and explain himself. Haven’t liked him since.
 
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