Benefits rule is un-American, illogical, and utter BS

[Rellyrell]

Players are receiving a 6 figure education. Thats benefit enough. Have a little common sense.

Meanwhile, Universities are making Multi-millions and the NCAA makes multi billions as a good amount of these student athletes playing for these P5 schools get a grip of elective classes that won't benefit them in real life.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

Players are receiving a 6 figure education. Thats benefit enough. Have a little common sense.

Meanwhile, Universities are making Multi-millions and the NCAA makes multi billions as a good amount of these student athletes playing for these P5 schools get a grip of elective classes that won't benefit them in real life.

The universities put that revenue right back into their programs. The players not only get free college degrees, they also get the best training for their sport, training tables unavailable to a regular student, tutors unavailable to a regular student, free personal marketing, etc.

I keep waiting for the first player to turn down a Division 1 football scholarship because of the unnecessary burden it puts on his life.

 

[SFbayCane]

Players are receiving a 6 figure education. Thats benefit enough. Have a little common sense.

Meanwhile, Universities are making Multi-millions and the NCAA makes multi billions as a good amount of these student athletes playing for these P5 schools get a grip of elective classes that won't benefit them in real life.

Yup.

Moreover, everyone here is using the retail price to associate the benefit to the student athlete. It does NOT cost UM $200K to educate an individual student, but rather that is the market value of a UM education. Which is interesting to note that those defending the control of free market wages want to assign the free market value on the skools side but not to the true value of what the athlete might be able to earn in addition to their education.


If I recall correctly, UM received ~ $22 million for the ACC all-sports revenue sharing payout in 2014, which is the last time I saw numbers. Using the historical guideline that football and men's basketball are the only profitable sports with men's baseball generally providing break-even revenue, every other sport is a drain on the system. So the football player's share of the revenue generated to the university is potentially massive in comparison to their allowed compensation.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

BTW - I should add that no other scholarship student has to submit to drug testing. No one on academic scholarship has to take random drug tests. Can you imagine what would happen to the music school if everyone on a music scholarship had to take random drug tests? LMAO.

Cool, then let's start treating the athletes like the regular students. Submit that application, son, and remember that our average SAT score is right around 1300.

Can't have it both ways.

 

[SFbayCane]

Players are receiving a 6 figure education. Thats benefit enough. Have a little common sense.

Meanwhile, Universities are making Multi-millions and the NCAA makes multi billions as a good amount of these student athletes playing for these P5 schools get a grip of elective classes that won't benefit them in real life.

The universities put that revenue right back into their programs. The players not only get free college degrees, they also get the best training for their sport, training tables unavailable to a regular student, tutors unavailable to a regular student, free personal marketing, etc.

I keep waiting for the first player to turn down a Division 1 football scholarship because of the unnecessary burden it puts on his life.

Poor rebuttal. Its not a zero sum game. Revenue generated by the student athlete outside of the NCAA indentured servant system (ie: working at a HS skills camp over the summer) does not subtract from the revenue generated that goes to the university system.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

Players are receiving a 6 figure education. Thats benefit enough. Have a little common sense.

Meanwhile, Universities are making Multi-millions and the NCAA makes multi billions as a good amount of these student athletes playing for these P5 schools get a grip of elective classes that won't benefit them in real life.

The universities put that revenue right back into their programs. The players not only get free college degrees, they also get the best training for their sport, training tables unavailable to a regular student, tutors unavailable to a regular student, free personal marketing, etc.

I keep waiting for the first player to turn down a Division 1 football scholarship because of the unnecessary burden it puts on his life.

Poor rebuttal. Its not a zero sum game. Revenue generated by the student athlete outside of the NCAA indentured servant system (ie: working at a HS skills camp over the summer) does not subtract from the revenue generated that goes to the university system.

And your rebuttal has nothing to do with my rebuttal. Does that make it poorer? Neither myself nor the person I responded to mentioned anything about the summer work rules.

 

[SFbayCane]

BTW - I should add that no other scholarship student has to submit to drug testing. No one on academic scholarship has to take random drug tests. Can you imagine what would happen to the music school if everyone on a music scholarship had to take random drug tests? LMAO.

Cool, then let's start treating the athletes like the regular students. Submit that application, son, and remember that our average SAT score is right around 1300.

Can't have it both ways.

If you truly want it that way, then give each athlete their direct share of revenue generated by being an athlete. I guess one would think that tuition costs would further skyrocket as the skool would no longer receive the subsidy of athletic monies nor the free marketing that accompanies it.

There is no way around it. The compensation of some student athletes is being controlled for the benefit of those who own the system.

 

[SFbayCane]

Players are receiving a 6 figure education. Thats benefit enough. Have a little common sense.

Meanwhile, Universities are making Multi-millions and the NCAA makes multi billions as a good amount of these student athletes playing for these P5 schools get a grip of elective classes that won't benefit them in real life.

The universities put that revenue right back into their programs. The players not only get free college degrees, they also get the best training for their sport, training tables unavailable to a regular student, tutors unavailable to a regular student, free personal marketing, etc.

I keep waiting for the first player to turn down a Division 1 football scholarship because of the unnecessary burden it puts on his life.[/QUOTE]




You must not follow baseball recruiting. There you have a system where the NCAA does not have a monopoly and the free market is a factor in every kid's decision. Just axe Jim Morris, he seems to know this more than most coaches. lol

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

BTW - I should add that no other scholarship student has to submit to drug testing. No one on academic scholarship has to take random drug tests. Can you imagine what would happen to the music school if everyone on a music scholarship had to take random drug tests? LMAO.

Cool, then let's start treating the athletes like the regular students. Submit that application, son, and remember that our average SAT score is right around 1300.

Can't have it both ways.

If you truly want it that way, then give each athlete their direct share of revenue generated by being an athlete. I guess one would think that tuition costs would further skyrocket as the skool would no longer receive the subsidy of athletic monies nor the free marketing that accompanies it.

There is no way around it. The compensation of some student athletes is being controlled for the benefit of those who own the system.

I will absolutely give them their share under that scenario, because you killed the concept of college football when you agreed to admit football players under the same standards that regular students face.

 

[Tad Footeball]

Players are receiving a 6 figure education. Thats benefit enough. Have a little common sense.

Meanwhile, Universities are making Multi-millions and the NCAA makes multi billions as a good amount of these student athletes playing for these P5 schools get a grip of elective classes that won't benefit them in real life.

The universities put that revenue right back into their programs. The players not only get free college degrees, they also get the best training for their sport, training tables unavailable to a regular student, tutors unavailable to a regular student, free personal marketing, etc.

I keep waiting for the first player to turn down a Division 1 football scholarship because of the unnecessary burden it puts on his life.

Exactly. The "logic" some are deploying here would also then allow the universities to seek financial retribution from scholarship players that don't contribute to a financial gain to the university that exceeds the overall value of their scholarship. So some kid that barely sees the field (of which there are many on every team) should owe Miami at least $200k as they graduate. It's a two way street you dopes. Everything shouldn't be viewed from the prism of the few marquee players at each school.

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

Players are receiving a 6 figure education. Thats benefit enough. Have a little common sense.

Meanwhile, Universities are making Multi-millions and the NCAA makes multi billions as a good amount of these student athletes playing for these P5 schools get a grip of elective classes that won't benefit them in real life.

The universities put that revenue right back into their programs. The players not only get free college degrees, they also get the best training for their sport, training tables unavailable to a regular student, tutors unavailable to a regular student, free personal marketing, etc.

I keep waiting for the first player to turn down a Division 1 football scholarship because of the unnecessary burden it puts on his life.[/QUOTE]




You must not follow baseball recruiting. There you have a system where the NCAA does not have a monopoly and the free market is a factor in every kid's decision. Just axe Jim Morris, he seems to know this more than most coaches. lol

This is the second time you have posted something that has nothing to do with my post. Is my browser screwed up?

I said that I am waiting for a football player to publicly admit that he refuses to take part in this glorified slavery.

(And you respond with something about baseball...)

 

[kalinis]

and I'm not even going to engage in a back and forth, I'm really not interested. But I'll say this, I can tell a lot about a person who supports it

I don't think any of us disagree, that said we understand the kids knew rule and broke it anyways at Miami where the press wants them to get death penalty.

I disagree kids should be paid whatever they can get, I also think a scholarship is pay in its own way but should allow kids to at least do commericals and make money on there status in college, also should be able to make money in other ways, not direct from boosters but other ways.

that said the rules are the rules, and they broke them at a school the ncaa and press are always watching. this isn't bama or osu or another school where the ncaa will turn a blind eye or the media will this is Miami where if something happens the press find it and starts talking about killing the program.

 

[dookie blaylock]

BTW - I should add that no other scholarship student has to submit to drug testing. No one on academic scholarship has to take random drug tests. Can you imagine what would happen to the music school if everyone on a music scholarship had to take random drug tests? LMAO.

Cool, then let's start treating the athletes like the regular students. Submit that application, son, and remember that our average SAT score is right around 1300.

Can't have it both ways.

If you truly want it that way, then give each athlete their direct share of revenue generated by being an athlete. I guess one would think that tuition costs would further skyrocket as the skool would no longer receive the subsidy of athletic monies nor the free marketing that accompanies it.

There is no way around it. The compensation of some student athletes is being controlled for the benefit of those who own the system.

how do you quantify that though? the free market would dictate that each player is worth staggeringly different amounts. should all football players from the starting quarterback to the backup long-snapper be paid the same? if so, you're interfering with the free market and they still won't be paid what they should.

what percentage of football revenue does the quarterback bring in? should the linemen that protect him be paid more since he would be a broken heap without them? does a kick return specialist get paid more for turning games around even though he's only on the field a few times each game? you keep on throwing out suggestions that break down under the first sniff of scrutiny.

 

[SFbayCane]

Players are receiving a 6 figure education. Thats benefit enough. Have a little common sense.

Meanwhile, Universities are making Multi-millions and the NCAA makes multi billions as a good amount of these student athletes playing for these P5 schools get a grip of elective classes that won't benefit them in real life.

The universities put that revenue right back into their programs. The players not only get free college degrees, they also get the best training for their sport, training tables unavailable to a regular student, tutors unavailable to a regular student, free personal marketing, etc.

I keep waiting for the first player to turn down a Division 1 football scholarship because of the unnecessary burden it puts on his life.

Poor rebuttal. Its not a zero sum game. Revenue generated by the student athlete outside of the NCAA indentured servant system (ie: working at a HS skills camp over the summer) does not subtract from the revenue generated that goes to the university system.

And your rebuttal has nothing to do with my rebuttal. Does that make it poorer? Neither myself nor the person I responded to mentioned anything about the summer work rules.

My issue is with the NCAA rules structure that restricts the student athlete from the free market. I dont think its genuine to disallow criticisms of certain NCAA rules while supporting others, at least that's not what Im attempting to debate here.

I guess Ive been too close to this stuff. When I was a scholarship soccer player at Fresno State, I used to trade my complimentary game tickets for a case of Heineken.... when I didnt give them to girls in an effort to set something up for later that night. (which I guess was a compensation of sorts - lol ) But to think that I could have lost my scholarship for that and/or our final 4 appearance in '86 been taken away is criminal to me.




Great discussion by all in this thread though. Kudos!

 

[Jaromir Jagr]

Meanwhile, Universities are making Multi-millions and the NCAA makes multi billions as a good amount of these student athletes playing for these P5 schools get a grip of elective classes that won't benefit them in real life.

The universities put that revenue right back into their programs. The players not only get free college degrees, they also get the best training for their sport, training tables unavailable to a regular student, tutors unavailable to a regular student, free personal marketing, etc.

I keep waiting for the first player to turn down a Division 1 football scholarship because of the unnecessary burden it puts on his life.

Poor rebuttal. Its not a zero sum game. Revenue generated by the student athlete outside of the NCAA indentured servant system (ie: working at a HS skills camp over the summer) does not subtract from the revenue generated that goes to the university system.

And your rebuttal has nothing to do with my rebuttal. Does that make it poorer? Neither myself nor the person I responded to mentioned anything about the summer work rules.

My issue is with the NCAA rules structure that restricts the student athlete from the free market. I dont think its genuine to disallow criticisms of certain NCAA rules while supporting others, at least that's not what Im attempting to debate here.

I guess Ive been too close to this stuff. When I was a scholarship soccer player at Fresno State, I used to trade my complimentary game tickets for a case of Heineken.... when I didnt give them to girls in an effort to set something up for later that night. (which I guess was a compensation of sorts - lol ) But to think that I could have lost my scholarship for that and/or our final 4 appearance in '86 been taken away is criminal to me.




Great discussion by all in this thread though. Kudos!

I get that, and there are some scenarios that are heartbreaking for kids who lose their eligibility. But I get the reason for the rules. If we didn't have this level of scrutiny, every player at Alabama would be making six figures at their part time "job" over at that booster's law office.

 

[GreenBeans]

Players receive over $200,000 worth of eduction, housing and food. The idea these guys get nothing is ridiculous.

You joking right?

The school makes about $300 million a year off the sweat and hard work from these athletes and $50,000 a year is not robbery? For something that holds no value the day the athlete leaves the university


The universities can make money from deals and receive gifts but the athletes can't and their punishment is not being able to play. To me it just seems so unfair. Athletes should be able to benefit financially from their likeness, celebrity and merchandise sales.

 

[SFbayCane]

Meanwhile, Universities are making Multi-millions and the NCAA makes multi billions as a good amount of these student athletes playing for these P5 schools get a grip of elective classes that won't benefit them in real life.

The universities put that revenue right back into their programs. The players not only get free college degrees, they also get the best training for their sport, training tables unavailable to a regular student, tutors unavailable to a regular student, free personal marketing, etc.

I keep waiting for the first player to turn down a Division 1 football scholarship because of the unnecessary burden it puts on his life.[/QUOTE]




You must not follow baseball recruiting. There you have a system where the NCAA does not have a monopoly and the free market is a factor in every kid's decision. Just axe Jim Morris, he seems to know this more than most coaches. lol

This is the second time you have posted something that has nothing to do with my post. Is my browser screwed up?

I said that I am waiting for a football player to publicly admit that he refuses to take part in this glorified slavery.

(And you respond with something about baseball...)

he's grasping at straws since his arguments are weak. golden-esque levels of deflection.

Sorry, boss but this thread is moving too fast to keep up. This quote shows you saying something that it shows me saying. lol Cant fault me for missing it.


The baseball example exist because there is competition in those sports that does not exist in football. Again, its the monopoly that makes the NCAA criminal IMO. When was the last time a major university was put on probation for baseball violations? It just not something you see much of. Why? Because the NCAA cannot rule with an iron fist over baseball athletes.

Make sense?

 

[dookie blaylock]

The universities put that revenue right back into their programs. The players not only get free college degrees, they also get the best training for their sport, training tables unavailable to a regular student, tutors unavailable to a regular student, free personal marketing, etc.

I keep waiting for the first player to turn down a Division 1 football scholarship because of the unnecessary burden it puts on his life.[/QUOTE]




You must not follow baseball recruiting. There you have a system where the NCAA does not have a monopoly and the free market is a factor in every kid's decision. Just axe Jim Morris, he seems to know this more than most coaches. lol

This is the second time you have posted something that has nothing to do with my post. Is my browser screwed up?

I said that I am waiting for a football player to publicly admit that he refuses to take part in this glorified slavery.

(And you respond with something about baseball...)

he's grasping at straws since his arguments are weak. golden-esque levels of deflection.

Sorry, boss but this thread is moving too fast to keep up. This quote shows you saying something that it shows me saying. lol Cant fault me for missing it.

ah my mistake. admittedly the dig was a bit unnecessary even if you were keeping up.

 

[SFbayCane]

I get that, and there are some scenarios that are heartbreaking for kids who lose their eligibility. But I get the reason for the rules. If we didn't have this level of scrutiny, every player at Alabama would be making six figures at their part time "job" over at that booster's law office.

And having been part of it, Im telling you that is happening as I type this. The only difference is that the NCAA can pick and choose who they like and dont like and enforce what rules they want to. That great American philosopher Jerry Tarkanian said it best:

" The NCAA was so upset at UCLA's recruiting violations under John Wooden that they added two years to Cleveland State University's probation."

 

[GreenBeans]

This rule is very American if U check history. Its un-American according to the idea of what America is.

Also I know from first-hand accounts, friends, and family that the 6 figure education part of the deal is a somewhat farce for 80% of college players. I'm not gonna get into the specific stories but in short, the most talented athletes are strongly encouraged and in many cases I know of, made/forced to select a pre-determined schedule of classes and major, none of which will provide any strong basis for employment or wealth if football doesn't pan out. The school schedules clearly reflect what the focus of the scholarship agreement as student ATHLETES.

One side of these agreements (the university) is promised to be made wealthy, while the others (players) future is still in question.

By the time a player graduates, he has paid for his 6 figure education probably 3 times with the revenue they bring in. Dalvin Cook alone has probably made FSU 10 times the expenses of his education in only 2 seasons.

I agree

Boosters and paying players to come to a school is different and should always be illegal. But not allowing players to benefit off their likeness is wrong.


To me it is simple. Money should be held in a trust and made available only if the player graduates with a degree. If they leave early for the draft they forfeit any money. The school can get their cut from the mone made also.