Pro Wrestling AEW MEGA THREAD

[Cribby]

Overall the show was great; best promo I’ve seen in yrs. u can tell some of the older guys were a bit out of shape, and there were a few rough patches which is to be expected w a brand new promo, but it was still light yrs betters than what the WWE has put out over the last decade for sure. Really excited to have this alternative and apparently they already have 6 months of solid storylines.

I’ll never be the wrestling fan I once was when I was a kid, but this promo can definitely grab my attention to peep in when they air on TNT.

Overall I would give it a solid 4.5 out of 5.

The pre show had better wrestling than anything WWE has done in years alone

Opening match was ******* incredible

Womens 4 way was ******* incredible. That smiley chick seems super corny at first but wins you over because she NEVER breaks character and she is such a smooth performer with awesome moves and the ability to sell

The 6 man tag womans match with the japanese chicks was ok. Definitely brought the full japanese style element to the show. Got bored with this one after a while.

Cody and Dustin told a 30 year long story in a 20 minute match. Just awesome. Dustin bled more than anyone I can recall in a long long time. Glad this wasnt his last match. Hes still got it. The incorperation of brandi seems forced at times. Cody would be fine with just the doggo.

The best friends are my new favorite tag team. That match ALMOST stole the show.

The lucha bros are my new favorite tag team. This match stole the show. Spot after dangerous spot. The lucha bros are legit. Pentagon JR is a star.

Holy **** Kenny Omega made Chris Jericho look 100x better than he was last night, and Jericho was pretty ****** good to begin with. I have seen Omega a few times, but man... this guy is gonna be the flagship of wrestling for years to come. This match was better than the first one with no gimmicks involved. Ambrose wasnt much of a surprise as everyone expected it, but I like that he didnt affect the outcome of the match.

This show lived up to the lofty expectations. Vince...... you better figure it out bruh.

Best friends have a you tube show that’s hilarious , I just don’t dig their wrestling. Chuck Taylor is everything wrong with today’s wrestling imo. Watching his Indy matches is embarrassingly bad. I’m ok with haha, or some funny but the sport was built on violence , story telling and psychology. Good vs bad, not stupid *** fake hand grenade spots and the young bucks super kicking kids.

Once again it’s an old guys opinion on today’s product. Especially the indies. But this new era niche fan loves it.

I just will continue to watch old clips on YouTube lol.

 

[GojiraCane]

I'll go OT on this as I am a wrestling fan.

WWE is at it's strongest and weakest points right now. They're strongest in that their two new TV deals that start this fall provide them with their highest TV rights deals ever. They'll be making $400M in rights fees alone from FOX and USA - and these are non-flexible, guaranteed revenue streams until 2023. They're at their weakest because their actual product has never been worse. Most of their roster is interchangeable, their storylines are largely non-existent, and they have no real main-stream, recognizable stars with John Cena having departed and the rest of the roster existing as generic everypeople. Their non-fixed revenue streams reflect this - ratings continue to decline at a pace that outstrips the general decline in television viewership for all shows, and live event attendance has sagged to the point where the events barely break even for the company anymore. Here's an example of attendance:

I saw the highlights of AEW's show and I was impressed. The production values looked fantastic and comparable to WWE's. They had recognizable names - ring announcer Justin Roberts, referee Earl Hepner, commentator Jim Ross - all people who casual fans would know and would help a viewer absorb a new product. The show was at a sold out MGM Grand and did not look minor league whatsoever. The wrestling itself was great, and the ending with Dean Ambrose appearing was a nice cliffhanger.

Because WWE has no true mainstream superstars anymore, the delta between it and a new, well-funded competitor is actually much smaller than it would have been ten years ago when mainstream stars like HHH, Undertaker, Edge, Batista, and John Cena were part of the company. AEW got off to an excellent start, but the key will be how they book out the next 6 - 12 months to sustain their momentum.

 

[Hurracanes]

Not bad at all. Lots of positive feedback.

Anyone know why Ambrose left WWE?

 

[BoxingRobes]

Guys...

Just an FYI, AEW is NOT an Indie.

Its backed by one of the richest men in the world and is selling out 10K+ arenas on opening night.

Also, it had as diverse a style setlist as you'll see in wrestling. Indie style spotfests, Joshi wrestling, American womens wrestling, old school NWA main event, strong style, Indie/Lucha tag, storiez...it tried to hit as many different genres of wrestling as possible in 3.5 hours. It has something for everyone. Most importantly...it has good in-ring, bell-to-bell action no matter the style.

 

[Cribby]

Guys...

Just an FYI, AEW is NOT an Indie.

Its backed by one of the richest men in the world and is selling out 10K+ arenas on opening night.

Also, it had as diverse a style setlist as you'll see in wrestling. Indie style spotfests, Joshi wrestling, American womens wrestling, old school NWA main event, strong style, Indie/Lucha tag, storiez...it tried to hit as many different genres of wrestling as possible in 3.5 hours. It has something for everyone. Most importantly...it has good in-ring, bell-to-bell action no matter the style.

Not sure if it’s in reference to me but I wasn’t referring to it as “indie”. I was referring to chuck Taylor while he was on the indies, and a lot of those guys do that comedy crap. As do the young bucks and omega at times. And both spent a large portion of their career on the indies.

Indy fans are also going to jump on this because a lot of this roster spent years on that market , the “underdogs “ who couldn’t get a shot at the big time.

I’ve known about aew for months , and know they were looking for a tv deal . Which they got with tnt. I also heard the Khan kid on talk is Jericho.

The indies is where all that comedic crap started , hopefully aew keeps away from that Joey Ryan type garbage. But yeah , I was referring more to the roster and fans than the actual company.

 

[Rellyrell]

I'll go OT on this as I am a wrestling fan.

WWE is at it's strongest and weakest points right now. They're strongest in that their two new TV deals that start this fall provide them with their highest TV rights deals ever. They'll be making $400M in rights fees alone from FOX and USA - and these are non-flexible, guaranteed revenue streams until 2023. They're at their weakest because their actual product has never been worse. Most of their roster is interchangeable, their storylines are largely non-existent, and they have no real main-stream, recognizable stars with John Cena having departed and the rest of the roster existing as generic everypeople. Their non-fixed revenue streams reflect this - ratings continue to decline at a pace that outstrips the general decline in television viewership for all shows, and live event attendance has sagged to the point where the events barely break even for the company anymore. Here's an example of attendance:

View attachment 86186


I saw the highlights of AEW's show and I was impressed. The production values looked fantastic and comparable to WWE's. They had recognizable names - ring announcer Justin Roberts, referee Earl Hepner, commentator Jim Ross - all people who casual fans would know and would help a viewer absorb a new product. The show was at a sold out MGM Grand and did not look minor league whatsoever. The wrestling itself was great, and the ending with Dean Ambrose appearing was a nice cliffhanger.

Because WWE has no true mainstream superstars anymore, the delta between it and a new, well-funded competitor is actually much smaller than it would have been ten years ago when mainstream stars like HHH, Undertaker, Edge, Batista, and John Cena were part of the company. AEW got off to an excellent start, but the key will be how they book out the next 6 - 12 months to sustain their momentum.

The problem w the WWE is that it’s completely misused it’s wrestlers and angles causing legit talent to go to waste.

Example: Bo Dallas. Here’s a guy who could’ve been used like Bob Backlund. The fans liked his gimmick, but there was a weirdness to him. Easily could’ve had his character have split personalities and snap on wrestlers, snap back stage, and then snap back to reality. It would’ve went over very well.

Roman Reigns; could’ve made him a heel, EASILY. Create a heel who don’t speak, just seek & destroys every kid’s favorite wrestler. The moment they gave him the mic, everyone hated him. He was a babyface that fans boo’d relentlessly.

Brock Lesnar. Rare appearances, but when he did appear, make it compelling!

Dean Ambrose. Totally screwed this guy w this whole grunge crap. He looked dirty & cheap v. a real bad *** wrestler.

Bobby Lashley. Feel sorry for how they make him so soft. Looks like Tarzan but he wrestles like Jane.

The championship belt designs suck.

The moment WWE decided to call RAW The A Brand & Smackdown The B Brand, they f’d up. Raw should’ve came on Mondays, and Smackdown should’ve been treated like Saturday Night Main Event; comes on TV hella random, but great quality matches leading up to a ppv special, where titles can change hands on the fly.

Plus The WWE oversaturated their PPV. Every month, a different PPV. The whole Money In The Bank, TLC PPV could’ve been used on Smack Down.

Terrible writers, terrible promos, terrible belt designs, terrible angles, terrible marketing....it’s destroyed the mystique of The WWE. Yet, it won’t matter b/c Vince is making a killing.

AEW provided us w adult entertainment, old school wrestling w a new school flair. The fact that The Young Bucks are champions from a different wrestling organization is already great. That’s how the old WCW used to be; bringing belts from NWA. AEW just gotta keep up the momentum. They need a Heavyweight, Tag Team, TV , Woman’s and Light Heavyweight championship; that’s it. Have some cats from Lucha Libre or Japan invade w their belts every now & then, and I can see them making a huge run for that # 1 spot.

 

[DMoney]

The issue I see with AEW is that they don’t seem to have an edge. They came out the gate with speeches about “inclusion” and comedy angles. Which is fine, but it’s not going to make much of a dent outside of hardcore internet wrestling fans.

WCW and ECW shook up the WWF because they were grittier and more aggressive. I don’t see that with AEW yet. The Cody/Dustin match was a step in the right direction.

 

[GojiraCane]

Not bad at all. Lots of positive feedback.

Anyone know why Ambrose left WWE?

Ambrose had an artificial ceiling put on him. He was never - ever - going to be anything more than the third best member of the shield, even though he had the most charisma and strongest breakout star potential of the three. In late 2017 he suffered a torn triceps injury that kept him out for nine months. During that time, he got himself into the best shape he had been in since joining the main roster. He was brought back with the intention of having him be the heel opponent to Roman Reigns at WrestleMania 35. However as with many, many things in the current WWE, plans changed. Roman went out with leukemia, so they pivoted Dean to feuding with Seth Rollins. This was understandable, and he was portrayed as a very serious rulebreaker. However within a few weeks they started to portray Dean as a comedic heel - basically the mirror of the quasi-goofy face that they had him portray from 2014 - 2017. And that WrestleMania main event with its huge payday, that was likely going away too.

Dean's potential was as a hybrid "Stone Cold" Steve Austin / "Loose Cannon" Brian Pillman character, but he was never going to be allowed to become too popular to avoid overshadowing their chosen Face of the Company in Roman Reigns. So when Dean instead pivoted to being a heel, they quickly devalued him. His contract renewal - which was probably taken as a given a few months prior by WWE - was then held off, and Dean made the decision at the Royal Rumble 2019 not to re-up. It was around this time that Tony Khan entered the fray with All Elite Wrestling, and Dean knew that he had a big-money alternative that would allow him far, far more creative freedom (the modern-day WWE scripts everything that the wrestlers say, and deviating from this can lead to one's firing). So he left.

 

[GojiraCane]

The issue I see with AEW is that they don’t seem to have an edge. They came out the gate with speeches about “inclusion” and comedy angles. Which is fine, but it’s not going to make much of a dent outside of hardcore internet wrestling fans.

WCW and ECW shook up the WWF because they were grittier and more aggressive. I don’t see that with AEW yet. The Cody/Dustin match was a step in the right direction.

WCW shook up the WWF because they had a bigger talent budget and were signing away wrestlers at a time when Vince was at his lowest point in profitability. The company lost money in 1994 and 1996, and were legitimately in financial peril in the first half of 1997 due to elevated production costs and salary expenses.

ECW never shook up the WWF, but rather provided a small-scale example of what likely could work if the company were to start appealing to an older audience.

AEW is different. They don't necessarily have to provide an all-new template (i.e. adult-exclusive, CGI-laden pre-taped shows, or ROH no-storylines). They just need to be willing to listen to their fanbase, not condescend to it, allow creative freedom to its performers, and provide unique characters. They need to be Toyota or Steve Jobs-era Apple, while WWE continues to be 1970s General Motors or 1980s Xerox.

 

[DMoney]

WCW shook up the WWF because they had a bigger talent budget and were signing away wrestlers at a time when Vince was at his lowest point in profitability. The company lost money in 1994 and 1996, and were legitimately in financial peril in the first half of 1997 due to elevated production costs and salary expenses.

ECW never shook up the WWF, but rather provided a small-scale example of what likely could work if the company were to start appealing to an older audience.

AEW is different. They don't necessarily have to provide an all-new template (i.e. adult-exclusive, CGI-laden pre-taped shows, or ROH no-storylines). They just need to be willing to listen to their fanbase, not condescend to it, allow creative freedom to its performers, and provide unique characters. They need to be Toyota or Steve Jobs-era Apple, while WWE continues to be 1970s General Motors or 1980s Xerox.

WCW’s rise was really about the nWo angle. Before that, nobody cared about old Hogan and Savage. The nWo made wrestling cool when WWF was still pushing cartoon gimmicks. ECW made WWF look even more out of touch by comparison.

AEW has a chance and I hope they make it. But I felt like they were preaching to the converted. It was a show for hardcore fans who are already watching wrestling, as opposed to lapsed fans. Just my opinion as one of those fans who was lapsed for many years.

 

[BoxingRobes]

The issue I see with AEW is that they don’t seem to have an edge. They came out the gate with speeches about “inclusion” and comedy angles. Which is fine, but it’s not going to make much of a dent outside of hardcore internet wrestling fans.

WCW and ECW shook up the WWF because they were grittier and more aggressive. I don’t see that with AEW yet. The Cody/Dustin match was a step in the right direction.

Double or Nothing drew twice the number of fans than ECW's largest gate. It was their first branded event. FWIW - All In also outdrew ECWs largest gate by twice the figure.

WWE operates at like 90% market share, but its a market that has deflated dramatically since the Attitude Era. There are lapsed fans to be had. But, its not necessarily about competing with WWE for whats left of the WWE audience (~2.5M people you'd presume considering thats a safe RAW number)...its about providing an alternative for that ~2.5M while offering something for the potential of double that from perhaps lapsed fans with a hot product?

AEW's influence could come from beyond "competition"...a more sports oriented product Cody claims to offer as well as potential to be beyond a "house style" where the added emphasis on bell-to-bell could make its way to main roster WWE.

 

[DMoney]

Double or Nothing drew twice the number of fans than ECW's largest gate. It was their first branded event. FWIW - All In also outdrew ECWs largest gate by twice the figure.

WWE operates at like 90% market share, but its a market that has deflated dramatically since the Attitude Era. There are lapsed fans to be had. But, its not necessarily about competing with WWE for whats left of the WWE audience (~2.5M people you'd presume considering thats a safe RAW number)...its about providing an alternative for that ~2.5M while offering something for the potential of double that from perhaps lapsed fans with a hot product?

AEW's influence could come from beyond "competition"...a more sports oriented product Cody claims to offer as well as potential to be beyond a "house style" where the added emphasis on bell-to-bell could make its way to main roster WWE.

ECW would’ve been much bigger in the social media era. This is a different time.

If I had to compare this show to Barely Legal, I would go with Barely Legal but I’m biased.

 

[pcitycane]

You guys are blowing me away. I'm impressed with all of your insights.

You can't compare eras. You just can't. I see your point D about an edge, but I disagree that it's not yet being shown.

Point A - strong style. They let these guys go. ZERO moves were off limits as opposed to WWEs dictionary long moves that are banned. Dr Britt coulda killed smiley girl with that steiner screwdriver (awesome).

Point B - letting guys work hurt. It hurt me to watch hangman suffer thru the knee injury and Kenny Omega broke his nose 5 minutes into a STIFF match.

Point C - Cody and Dustin. When's the last time you saw a crimson mask?


It's there. My only worry is if they can keep people compelled week to week, something literally everyone else has failed including the WWE.

 

[VaCanesFan88]

Wrestling version of the Don Manny Diaz

 

[Cribby]

WCW’s rise was really about the nWo angle. Before that, nobody cared about old Hogan and Savage. The nWo made wrestling cool when WWF was still pushing cartoon gimmicks. ECW made WWF look even more out of touch by comparison.

AEW has a chance and I hope they make it. But I felt like they were preaching to the converted. It was a show for hardcore fans who are already watching wrestling, as opposed to lapsed fans. Just my opinion as one of those fans who was lapsed for many years.

This , the NWO angle is what shot them ahead, then the sting in the rafters and the setting up the dream match.

They were more realistic , while wwe had childish characters like the repo man.

The thing that saved wwe was they went off the rails with ***, nudity and violence. People tuned in to see who’d lose their tops or how many girls will lose their pants.

Lastly Vince got lucky with Stone cold , he got himself over with his own gimmick , character change. Which shot them through the stratosphere. Steve saved that company , then the rock exploding a couple years later pretty much had everyone watching that show.

But *** and raunch was made the momentum swing , and Ted Turner wasn’t about that stuff.

Credit to Vince , he was desperate and did what he had to do. He also was one of the best heels ever in the rivalry with SCSA. So he deserves props there.

Wcw also did themselves in with horrible storylines and putting 1500 guys in the nwo. They were just as responsible for their death than Vince. Total **** show towards the end.

 

[BoxingRobes]

ECW would’ve been much bigger in the social media era. This is a different time.

If I had to compare this show to Barely Legal, I would go with Barely Legal but I’m biased.

You are right, this is a different time. With that said, ECW was a time, place, location thing. You can't get that back.

IMO, I don't think a contemporary brand focused on hardcore matches, violence to women, etc. will work. AEW's angle of inclusion, healthcare for their employees, a less rigorous schedule, and more creative freedom is a nice place to start on the social aspects of wrestling. However, how they thematically present their product will be important as well. WWE production is as stale as those lost McDonald's fries under the seat of your 12 year old Honda Civic. They haven't changed their production much since the Attitude Era. Outside of the upgrade to the HD format, early 2000s Smackdown and RAW look virtually the same. The format of the show is the same, etc.

Also, I don't think AEW will fail. Too much money and too many wrestling nerds in the circle of power to let it fail.

WWF v. WCW was really two giant corporations trying to put each other out of business to control a market share. That isn't this. Even AEW's television deal just really assures them that their product isn't a money loser. This battle is more for the quality of the pro wrestling product over trying to monopolize the market. Everything AEW has said publicly is that they are perfectly content to stay in their lane, make a some money and just be proud of the product they are producing. All In and Double or Nothing have done nothing to suggest otherwise.

FWIW - WWE has its very own AEW already in-house. NXT is fantastic wrestling televisions and Takeover events are the safest, and one of the best things in all of wrestling. Its just Vince is old and senile and has no idea how to take NXTs successes and bring them to the main roster. He hasn't allowed NXT to really influence his own product. Once Triple H gets more control over the main roster creatively (it'll happen when Vince has to move away or dies or has a stroke or some ****), you're going to see a boom in bell-to-bell quality in the company and that clock could be accelerated with AEW looking good out the gate.

 

[halocanex]

I thought it was solid but enjoyed All In as a whole better. I do think it is definitely fulfilling something that is missing from WWE. There is no way I can take sitting through another Roman or Brock title reign.

My one critique is that they still seem to be spending a lot of time patting themselves on the back. It is awesome what you guys are doing but let's focus on the product. All they have done is booked themselves over in every match their friends are in.

 

[GojiraCane]

Double or Nothing drew twice the number of fans than ECW's largest gate. It was their first branded event. FWIW - All In also outdrew ECWs largest gate by twice the figure.

WWE operates at like 90% market share, but its a market that has deflated dramatically since the Attitude Era. There are lapsed fans to be had. But, its not necessarily about competing with WWE for whats left of the WWE audience (~2.5M people you'd presume considering thats a safe RAW number)...its about providing an alternative for that ~2.5M while offering something for the potential of double that from perhaps lapsed fans with a hot product?

AEW's influence could come from beyond "competition"...a more sports oriented product Cody claims to offer as well as potential to be beyond a "house style" where the added emphasis on bell-to-bell could make its way to main roster WWE.

Agreed. There were over 4M people who watched RAW 25 in January 2018. Many lapsed fans tuned in. They shed 1.5M of those since then. It’s why I think AEW could draw 1.5M to 1.7M out of the gate when their fall show starts on TNT.

I’m not sure WWE has the capability to respond to AEW. It’s a huge organization now with decades of tradition build in regarding “how things are done”. For instance micromanagement - for exactly 19 years WWE has scripted every promo. Any deviation has been punished, any initiative by the talent stamped out. How does that company then say, “Here you go everyone...bullet points and you figure out the rest.”

 

[BoxingRobes]

Agreed. There were over 4M people who watched RAW 25 in January 2018. Many lapsed fans tuned in. They shed 1.5M of those since then. It’s why I think AEW could draw 1.5M to 1.7M out of the gate when their fall show starts on TNT.

I’m not sure WWE has the capability to respond to AEW. It’s a huge organization now with decades of tradition build in regarding “how things are done”. For instance micromanagement - for exactly 19 years WWE has scripted every promo. Any deviation has been punished, any initiative by the talent stamped out. How does that company then say, “Here you go everyone...bullet points and you figure out the rest.”

There was a time when TNA Impact Wrestling was getting two million viewers. RAW recently had a 2.3 million week.

These numbers for AEW to be a success are not out of control.

Their initial TV deal is basically set up to not lose money. TNT is picking up all production costs and they are splitting up ad revenue and whatnot. It'll be a mild monetary success in its first few years...it doesn't need to be a monster early...its in this for the long haul and it has enough financial support to expand...to weather storms...to compete for talent...

I am very excited for this product. Could finally be a major American promotion for me. Current New Japan is incredible, but I like the potential for a more eclectic American style from AEW.

 

[GojiraCane]

There was a time when TNA Impact Wrestling was getting two million viewers. RAW recently had a 2.3 million week.

These numbers for AEW to be a success are not out of control.

Their initial TV deal is basically set up to not lose money. TNT is picking up all production costs and they are splitting up ad revenue and whatnot. It'll be a mild monetary success in its first few years...it doesn't need to be a monster early...its in this for the long haul and it has enough financial support to expand...to weather storms...to compete for talent...

I am very excited for this product. Could finally be a major American promotion for me. Current New Japan is incredible, but I like the potential for a more eclectic American style from AEW.

I agree. This was almost the last available window to do this. WWE has a roadmap in mind where they plan on recreating a NWA world wide territory system in Japan, Europe, South America, India, and China. Ten years from now there likely wouldn’t be any unsigned talent for a new startup to use.