4-star CB Markevious Brown close to cutting list, talks UM

[TheOriginalCane]

I don't think anyone is refusing the acknowledge what happened with Marshall, but that is the reality with top prospects and somehow we were able to overcome it with Taylor and Williams. That aside, the issue in past years was not just missing on the Surtain, Campbell, etc. It was the fact that our CB board was always small, and seemingly would explode after the early signing day when we miss out on top prospects. Fair or not, accurate or not, it gives the impression that we are consistently scrambling at the end. Losing guys like Jaden Davis and Asante Samuel when we did not start recruiting them until it was too late reinforces this. We don't know how much of this is on Rumph vs Diaz, but I can't imagine it helps recruit guys where the person you will be working with most is not that involved in the recruitment.

Flash forward to this year, what happened with Marshall happened. If my bubbie had balls she'd be my zeidi and if UF didn't drop a bag Marshall would be committed to Miami. But the reality is, we now have one guy on the board for a spot where we really need a guy who will be ready to contribute early, and this need is a result of past years' failures. Part of that is due to the pandemic, part is it seems like a down year for CBs in SFL, and part is we just had a small board at the beginning.

I think everyone wants Rumph to succeed and be part of the story of Miami returning to the mountaintop, but questioning his ability to recruit and stack a room is 100% fair after four years of evidence. He does have a number of 4* guys in the room now. He really needs them to develop and start getting drafted in the top 3 rounds to overcome some of the other recruiting deficiencies.

Just stop and think about what you are saying for a minute.

We didn't "overcome" anything with Taylor. It has been made clear multiple times, he didn't want the money. And if he did want the money, we would not have overcome anything.

And on the "CB board was small" nonsense, it needs to be broken into two components. First, we didn't lose SoFla blue-chippers over "CB board was small" issues. People can't name a SoFla blue-chipper that we missed for lack of an offer. Now, once you get down to 3-stars, yes, we may have made some wrong calls on projections. We may have taken some kids and missed on others. Honestly, what do you think the alternative is (outside of offering every 4 and 5 star CB in the country, regardless of geography)? If we offer a ton of 3-stars, what do we do, take the first 2 or 3 who commit?

As for your examples (Jaden Davis and Asante Samuel)...

Jaden Davis:

Receiving an offer from your hometown team is always a great moment, and this was no different for Davis.

“Receiving a Miami offer was crazy I remember it was spring of my sophomore year. Coach Banda spoke to me over the phone. Just to receive an offer from the hometown team was just amazing.”

Miami has put two men in charge of recruiting Davis, sending both Mike Rumph and DeMarcus Van Dyke out on the trail.

“They are both great guys and I have built a great relationship with them. They talk to me more about family and life than football.”

Asante Samuel:

First, Miami was in the FINAL TWO, and he eliminated Alabama, LSU, and Ohio State before choosing between UM and F$U. IN APRIL 2017 (and for the record, when Samuel picked F$U over UM, Jimbo was still the coach).

Second, Miami made a SECOND "late push" along with South Carolina. IN DECEMBER 2017.

So let's not confuse this as a "we recruited him late" situation. We recruited Samuel early and often.



So, again, once we put aside the false impressions about what really happened, please feel free to get specific on what needs to change. I still fail to see how a "large board" changes things, but if you want to chase DBs in California, I guess we could try to hire Mullet.

Sure, we could start offering kids huge bags, to compete with the SEC scumbags. And spare me the bubbie comparison. Marshall got paid. It sucks. But if you can separate the money from, you know, the actual recruiting, you could admit that Rumph and Banda and Van Dyke actually did a great job of RECRUITING Marshall. Not a great job of paying him, but a great job of RECRUITING him.

All I'm talking about is that Rumph haters will DISMISS any evidence of improvement or change. They will complain about things that happened 4 years ago.

You can't blame Rumph for Marshall having UM #1 (when ignoring money).

You can't blame Rumph for "only" offering Jaden Davis as a sophomore.

You can't blame Rumph for making a SECOND recruiting pitch to Asante Samuel, even though our first pitch failed.

If you think our CB board is "too small", then we are really talking about 3-star kids, and yes, I would like to see Miami do a LOT MORE to identify CB talent by talking to area coaches. If anything is "too small", it's some of these kids. ****, Samuel was 5'9" and 160 pounds when we were recruiting him. If you use "size" as a prerequisite on CB recruiting, you might miss some kids who have late growth spurts, so we need to start targeting the kids who have dog-like effort in covering WRs, even WRs who are bigger than them.

I'd love to have tall CBs who weigh 200 pounds, but so does everyone else, especially the SEC schools that pay for that.

We need to find more Honey Badgers. And then coach them up. And pray that they keep growing.

Look, I'm not criticizing any one particular poster. But at least I provide a specific solution, and I don't just talk about generalities like "recruiting better".


PS, I would like to point out that all of this complaining is about Rumph's RECRUITING, because his coaching has been excellent, the defensive backs AND the entire defense has been highly ranked for his entire tenure. If you want to focus on positions that have actually LOST US GAMES, let's look at the QBs, the kickers, and the OL.

 

[Core Values]

I understand. But we can't go back and change things from years ago.

Fact is, we were poised to sign a top CB in this class. No issues of "can he recruit who he wants". And then the $250K bag drop happened.

I'm not saying he is the best, I'm not saying he is the worst. But the people who want to hate Rumph will refuse to acknowledge what just happened with Marshall.

If reports are correct Rumph wasn't the main person recruiting Marshall. He's downfall is his recruiting skills and the rest of the staff has taken over

 

[Fluffhead]

They may not refuse to acknowledge it but they still blame Rumph for it. Last year Banda was blamed as well, Williams is the first where he overcame it.

I do not think it is just the missing on the 5* guys. I get why we didn't land Surtain or Campbell. It is consistently missing on the next tier of guys that is more concerning. Our CB board has generally been small, has had little consistency in what we are looking for, a lot of late offers, a lot of ignoring guys who were interested, not keeping guys on the backburner. With regards to Banda, I think more people question his coaching that recruiting. Go look at the guys he was listed as recruiter for and it is hard to complain at some of his misses: https://247sports.com/Coach/Ephraim-Banda-3842/AllTimeRecruits/

This is the million dollar question, who controls the CB board. I've been asking for over a year. Those that know, who have inside access to the Hecht, aren't talking or speak in veiled terms.

I think it has been pretty well established that Rumph does not have full control over his offers.

Without knowing the answer to the question above, it's not fair to assign blame for the lack of depth at CB. It's just easier for most as it requires less critical thinking. It also doesn't get to the root issue which is my biggest concern. Until that's addressed, we're likely to repeat those mistakes even with a personnel change.

What is your biggest concern? You never said. I don't think it shows less critical thinking. I think people's basic premise is something is not right with CB. If Rumph is the lead recruiter, then he is not doing a good enough job, and if he has no say, then find someone who should. You can't just entirely absolve him from responsibility for part of his job, and, frankly, our play at CB has not been so great that he gets an outright pass.

This board is filled with numerous emotional malcontents that react like school girls at the slightest provocation. They're more interested in winning the national recruiting championship than getting things right. That railed at Stroud was he was made coach and said "He was a washed up has-been, we needed someone younger with more panache". All he's done is maintained the depth at DE and built up DT until we got Taylor. I'm sure he had a hand in it but Taylor where a number of factors came into play (IMO). Same with Williams and Marshall.

I think this is really a year where you look at the recruiting and CB is a glaring issue compared to just about every other position. It is fair to question Rumph. Let's even set aside the recruiting and say he has a bunch of four stars on the roster, which he does. Where is the development? What happened to DJ Ivey last year? Why don't our corners turn their heads?

Stroud has been here for a year and was hired as DL coach late in last year's recruiting cycle. This is his first class. What you said about Stroud maintaining depth makes not one iota of sense given how long he has been at the school. That aside, Rumph has had 4-5 years now to recruit Marshall and build a relationship with him, while Stroud had a year to do the same with Taylor and was able to get the job done. That argument makes no sense and only reinforces why people question Rumph.

The bottom line is if he was not a former Hurricane great who won a title as a player, you would not have your heels so dug in to block your ability to look at it objectively.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

If reports are correct Rumph wasn't the main person recruiting Marshall. He's downfall is his recruiting skills and the rest of the staff has taken over

We also need to cut this "main recruiter" crap as well. ****, it has been VERY clear from people who actually know things that Van Dyke is helping us tremendously, and he is not the "official" lead recruiter for anyone, as he is not a coach.

If you honestly believe that the position coach has no role in recruiting, and/or can be put into a closet for a year while everyone else recruits a kid, you need to seek help immediately.

Marshall knew who his position coach would be. Marshall met his position coach. Marshall was recruited by his position coach, as well as others. And despite this mythical "poisonous personality" of Rumph's, Marshall informed the coaches that he would be picking UM. Until he was paid $250K.

Keep making the Gaytors and SemenHoles laugh by talking about Rumph's "downfall", while he coaches a better pass defense than UiF (DBU) or F$U.

College FB Team Opponent Passing Yards per Game​

2019
Miami - 28
Florida - 36
F$U - 115

2018
Miami - 1
Florida - 35
F$U - 92

 

[NorthEastCane]

I do not think it is just the missing on the 5* guys. I get why we didn't land Surtain or Campbell. It is consistently missing on the next tier of guys that is more concerning. Our CB board has generally been small, has had little consistency in what we are looking for, a lot of late offers, a lot of ignoring guys who were interested, not keeping guys on the backburner. With regards to Banda, I think more people question his coaching that recruiting. Go look at the guys he was listed as recruiter for and it is hard to complain at some of his misses: https://247sports.com/Coach/Ephraim-Banda-3842/AllTimeRecruits/

I think it has been pretty well established that Rumph does not have full control over his offers.

When brought up, people are accused of being Rumph slurpers, it's clearly not well established. Many are still in denial.

What is your biggest concern? You never said. I don't think it shows less critical thinking.

I did say it. It's the question whose in control of the CB board. Bashing Rumph without considering who's responsible for the CB is a clear lack of critical thinking. Replacing Rumph if he's not responsible, will be no different than the Coker firings after the Peach Bowl. Nothing will change, that's my concern.

I think people's basic premise is something is not right with CB. If Rumph is the lead recruiter, then he is not doing a good enough job, and if he has no say, then find someone who should. You can't just entirely absolve him from responsibility for part of his job, and, frankly, our play at CB has not been so great that he gets an outright pass.

I think this is really a year where you look at the recruiting and CB is a glaring issue compared to just about every other position. It is fair to question Rumph. Let's even set aside the recruiting and say he has a bunch of four stars on the roster, which he does. Where is the development? What happened to DJ Ivey last year? Why don't our corners turn their heads?

Stroud has been here for a year and was hired as DL coach late in last year's recruiting cycle. This is his first class.

Simpson left before spring practice last year. Stroud kept that class together despite a 6-7 year. Then he has this year which for his position group is going great. He's also had to coach up young guys that had to play because of early departure. That's enough to make a sensible statement that he's maintained the depth.

What you said about Stroud maintaining depth makes not one iota of sense given how long he has been at the school. That aside, Rumph has had 4-5 years now to recruit Marshall and build a relationship with him, while Stroud had a year to do the same with Taylor and was able to get the job done. That argument makes no sense and only reinforces why people question Rumph.

The bottom line is if he was not a former Hurricane great who won a title as a player, you would not have your heels so dug in to block your ability to look at it objectively.

Are you serious? The irony, you see the problems with CB recruiting, you see Rumph as coach, and react it must be him, bring out the guillotine. Without even considering the why. And you said previously it's well established that he doesn't have control of the CB board. Now look in the mirror and ask yourself who's blocking their ability to look objectively.

You don't know me and have no idea how I look at things. I had no problem removing Shannon earlier than most because where I saw it trending. I will view Rumph no differently. There's more to this than any of us know and I will remain non-judgmental until I know more. And the people that do know aren't talking.

 

[Fluffhead]

Just stop and think about what you are saying for a minute.

We didn't "overcome" anything with Taylor. It has been made clear multiple times, he didn't want the money. And if he did want the money, we would not have overcome anything.

And on the "CB board was small" nonsense, it needs to be broken into two components. First, we didn't lose SoFla blue-chippers over "CB board was small" issues. People can't name a SoFla blue-chipper that we missed for lack of an offer. Now, once you get down to 3-stars, yes, we may have made some wrong calls on projections. We may have taken some kids and missed on others. Honestly, what do you think the alternative is (outside of offering every 4 and 5 star CB in the country, regardless of geography)? If we offer a ton of 3-stars, what do we do, take the first 2 or 3 who commit?

As for your examples (Jaden Davis and Asante Samuel)...

Jaden Davis:

Receiving an offer from your hometown team is always a great moment, and this was no different for Davis.

“Receiving a Miami offer was crazy I remember it was spring of my sophomore year. Coach Banda spoke to me over the phone. Just to receive an offer from the hometown team was just amazing.”

Miami has put two men in charge of recruiting Davis, sending both Mike Rumph and DeMarcus Van Dyke out on the trail.

“They are both great guys and I have built a great relationship with them. They talk to me more about family and life than football.”

Asante Samuel:

First, Miami was in the FINAL TWO, and he eliminated Alabama, LSU, and Ohio State before choosing between UM and F$U. IN APRIL 2017 (and for the record, when Samuel picked F$U over UM, Jimbo was still the coach).

Second, Miami made a SECOND "late push" along with South Carolina. IN DECEMBER 2017.

So let's not confuse this as a "we recruited him late" situation. We recruited Samuel early and often.



So, again, once we put aside the false impressions about what really happened, please feel free to get specific on what needs to change. I still fail to see how a "large board" changes things, but if you want to chase DBs in California, I guess we could try to hire Mullet.

Sure, we could start offering kids huge bags, to compete with the SEC scumbags. And spare me the bubbie comparison. Marshall got paid. It sucks. But if you can separate the money from, you know, the actual recruiting, you could admit that Rumph and Banda and Van Dyke actually did a great job of RECRUITING Marshall. Not a great job of paying him, but a great job of RECRUITING him.

All I'm talking about is that Rumph haters will DISMISS any evidence of improvement or change. They will complain about things that happened 4 years ago.

You can't blame Rumph for Marshall having UM #1 (when ignoring money).

You can't blame Rumph for "only" offering Jaden Davis as a sophomore.

You can't blame Rumph for making a SECOND recruiting pitch to Asante Samuel, even though our first pitch failed.

If you think our CB board is "too small", then we are really talking about 3-star kids, and yes, I would like to see Miami do a LOT MORE to identify CB talent by talking to area coaches. If anything is "too small", it's some of these kids. ****, Samuel was 5'9" and 160 pounds when we were recruiting him. If you use "size" as a prerequisite on CB recruiting, you might miss some kids who have late growth spurts, so we need to start targeting the kids who have dog-like effort in covering WRs, even WRs who are bigger than them.

I'd love to have tall CBs who weigh 200 pounds, but so does everyone else, especially the SEC schools that pay for that.

We need to find more Honey Badgers. And then coach them up. And pray that they keep growing.

Look, I'm not criticizing any one particular poster. But at least I provide a specific solution, and I don't just talk about generalities like "recruiting better".


PS, I would like to point out that all of this complaining is about Rumph's RECRUITING, because his coaching has been excellent, the defensive backs AND the entire defense has been highly ranked for his entire tenure. If you want to focus on positions that have actually LOST US GAMES, let's look at the QBs, the kickers, and the OL.

I had a whole response typed out, and deleted it because honestly, 1) I don't actually care. I hope Rumph develops Ivey and Blades into first round picks and gets the credibility he needs to recruit and 2) I remembered who I was responding to and do not want to continue down the path I see ahead of me with this conversation. Have a good weekend.

 

[MotoSniper]

I do not think it is just the missing on the 5* guys. I get why we didn't land Surtain or Campbell. It is consistently missing on the next tier of guys that is more concerning. Our CB board has generally been small, has had little consistency in what we are looking for, a lot of late offers, a lot of ignoring guys who were interested, not keeping guys on the backburner. With regards to Banda, I think more people question his coaching that recruiting. Go look at the guys he was listed as recruiter for and it is hard to complain at some of his misses: https://247sports.com/Coach/Ephraim-Banda-3842/AllTimeRecruits/

I think it has been pretty well established that Rumph does not have full control over his offers.

What is your biggest concern? You never said. I don't think it shows less critical thinking. I think people's basic premise is something is not right with CB. If Rumph is the lead recruiter, then he is not doing a good enough job, and if he has no say, then find someone who should. You can't just entirely absolve him from responsibility for part of his job, and, frankly, our play at CB has not been so great that he gets an outright pass.

I think this is really a year where you look at the recruiting and CB is a glaring issue compared to just about every other position. It is fair to question Rumph. Let's even set aside the recruiting and say he has a bunch of four stars on the roster, which he does. Where is the development? What happened to DJ Ivey last year? Why don't our corners turn their heads?

Stroud has been here for a year and was hired as DL coach late in last year's recruiting cycle. This is his first class. What you said about Stroud maintaining depth makes not one iota of sense given how long he has been at the school. That aside, Rumph has had 4-5 years now to recruit Marshall and build a relationship with him, while Stroud had a year to do the same with Taylor and was able to get the job done. That argument makes no sense and only reinforces why people question Rumph.

The bottom line is if he was not a former Hurricane great who won a title as a player, you would not have your heels so dug in to block your ability to look at it objectively.

Rumph doesn't recruit, it's on Banda, DVD, and whoever the assigned area recruiter is...Rumph is the only lead position coach not to have a recruiting area. That may be the problem right there, a high star kid I would imagine would want to hear from the coach that he is going to be directly under...Maybe that is where the disconnect or lack of strong bond results from bc Rumph doesn't recruit.

 

[MotoSniper]

We also need to cut this "main recruiter" crap as well. ****, it has been VERY clear from people who actually know things that Van Dyke is helping us tremendously, and he is not the "official" lead recruiter for anyone, as he is not a coach.

If you honestly believe that the position coach has no role in recruiting, and/or can be put into a closet for a year while everyone else recruits a kid, you need to seek help immediately.

Marshall knew who his position coach would be. Marshall met his position coach. Marshall was recruited by his position coach, as well as others. And despite this mythical "poisonous personality" of Rumph's, Marshall informed the coaches that he would be picking UM. Until he was paid $250K.

Keep making the Gaytors and SemenHoles laugh by talking about Rumph's "downfall", while he coaches a better pass defense than UiF (DBU) or F$U.

College FB Team Opponent Passing Yards per Game​

2019
Miami - 28
Florida - 36
F$U - 115

2018
Miami - 1
Florida - 35
F$U - 92

$250k?!? is that the current market value???

 

[Fluffhead]

When brought up, people are accused of being Rumph slurpers, it's clearly not well established. Many are still in denial.

I did say it. It's the question whose in control of the CB board. Bashing Rumph without considering who's responsible for the CB is a clear lack of critical thinking. Replacing Rumph if he's not responsible, will be no different than the Coker firings after the Peach Bowl. Nothing will change, that's my concern.

Simpson left before spring practice last year. Stroud kept that class together despite a 6-7 year. Then he has this year which for his position group is going great. He's also had to coach up young guys that had to play because of early departure. That's enough to make a sensible statement that he's maintained the depth.

Are you serious? The irony, you see the problems with CB recruiting, you see Rumph as coach, and react it must be him, bring out the guillotine. Without even considering the why. And you said previously it's well established that he doesn't have control of the CB board. Now look in the mirror and ask yourself who's blocking their ability to look objectively.

You don't know me and have no idea how I look at things. I had no problem removing Shannon earlier than most because where I saw it trending. I will view Rumph no differently. There's more to this than any of us know and I will remain non-judgmental until I know more. And the people that do know aren't talking.

The bottom line is like most things in life, the reality is somewhere in the middle. Part of it is on Rumph - he objectively is not a good enough recruiter and has yet to develop a CB into a top 3 round pick. That is a tough combination when you are not only going against bags, but coaches with a history of putting guys into the NFL in the first two days. Part of it is on Diaz for not green lighting offers quickly enough and having this system in place.

As a fan of this football team, I appreciate what Rumph did as a player. He has given more to this school that 99.9% of us could dream of. However, as a fan of this football team, my main concern and question in 2020 is whether we have the absolute best, realistic (i.e. not Corey Raymond or someone similar) person hired to recruit and coach our CBs. Given what I have seen, I personally do not think the answer to that question is yes.

However, I also agree that if you bring that person (or really any person) in as CB coach, you need to delegate and enable them to do the job they were hired to do. Based on how offers and recruiting works at other positions, I think Diaz is willing and able to do that. He clearly thinks he needs to micromanage this one position.

Going back to this thread. For whatever reason, we have a huge need for a boundary corner to contribute early in their career, and at this point in the cycle have exactly one target to do that. I hope we land Brown. We are not going against the bag schools, he is from Florida, we can offer him early playing time, and VT has been a bigger disaster than us. It is Rumph's job to sell all of this and close on Brown. Marshall is irrelevant to this story, and all of those excuses do not apply here. No excuses, just do your job.

 

[Brains]

@TheOriginalCane @wspcane @NorthEastCane

You're all making fair points, so I'm just going to try to distill this one. Regardless of the Marshall situation, Brown still needed to be in this class. I don't factor Marshall into any evaluation of Rumph (or the staff at large, for that matter).

Both i and @Liberty City El have listed ad nauseam the reasons that we need Brown and the reasons that there is no excuse not to land him.

That's why, for me, this is THE test for Rumph evaluation. If you can't land this recruit, under these circumstances, this year, you are not performing to expectations. I don't think this is a controversial assessment.

 

[Fluffhead]

@TheOriginalCane @wspcane @NorthEastCane

You're all making fair points, so I'm just going to try to distill this one. Regardless of the Marshall situation, Brown still needed to be in this class. I don't factor Marshall into any evaluation of Rumph (or the staff at large, for that matter).

Both i and @Liberty City El have listed ad nauseam the reasons that we need Brown and the reasons that there is no excuse not to land him.

That's why, for me, this is THE test for Rumph evaluation. If you can't land this recruit, under these circumstances, this year, you are not performing to expectations. I don't think this is a controversial assessment.

Agree 100% - I posted that same thought and sentiment just as you were posting yours. These guys are paid well in a results driven business. Do the job you were hired to do. No excuses in this recruitment.

 

[pacusmc]

We keep focusing on Rumph cause he’s here and the alleged non recruiting or alleged not allowed to evaluate rumors.
But we have to be clear that this is a problem that goes back before Rumph. He’s getting a lot of blame and I really don’t think the problem will be fixed even if we get someone else.
There was a long discussion on this board about how running a 4.3 and being taller than 6 feet will likely get you drafted regardless.
So if the nfl is going to prioritize the speed and length skill set over other things then it’s obvious that the top schools are.
Being 6’2 and running 4.3 as a high school db is going to demand a lot of money. And at this point we are not winning to the point that a kid is going to overlook that amount of money.

You guys want Rumph to “develop” first round talent but go look at first round db’s and tell me what they ran the 40 in and how tall they are.

Ohio state ain’t developing jack sht!!!! All their db’s were tall and fast AF!!!
No db recruited by them in the last 5 years ran a 4.7
If you run 4.3-4.4 in high school your catching everybody!!! And shutting down 99 percent of the receivers you face.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

I had a whole response typed out, and deleted it because honestly, 1) I don't actually care. I hope Rumph develops Ivey and Blades into first round picks and gets the credibility he needs to recruit and 2) I remembered who I was responding to and do not want to continue down the path I see ahead of me with this conversation. Have a good weekend.

It's all good, man. Don't worry about a thing, you can respond however you want.

I'm not saying we don't have some issues to address, I just think we disagree on what the issues are.

 

[Deleted member 25284]

It’s Friday you guys

 

[Deleted member 25284]

We keep focusing on Rumph cause he’s here and the alleged non recruiting or alleged not allowed to evaluate rumors.
But we have to be clear that this is a problem that goes on at back before Rumph and he’s getting a lot of blame and I really do t think the problem will be fixed even if we get someone else.
There was a long discussion on this board about how running a 4.3 and being taller than 6 feet will likely get you drafted regardless.
So if the nfl is going to prioritize the speed and length skill set over other things then it’s obvious that the top schools are.
Being 6’2 and running 4.3 as a high school db is going to demand a lot of money. And at this point we are not winning to the point that a kid is going to overlook that amount of money.

You guys want Rumph to “develop” first round talent but go look at first round db’s and tell me what they ran the 40 in and how tall they are.

Ohio state ain’t developing jack sht!!!! All their db’s were tall and fast AF!!!
No db recruiters by them in the last 5 years ran a 4.7
If you run 4.3-4.4 in high school your catching everybody!!! And shutting down 99 percent of the receivers you face.

You make great points but I gotta disagree with you slightly about the running fast thing as a corner lol sometimes being faster without any real knowledge or skill is a detriment to a defensive back. But it for sure makes the job easier

 

[NorthEastCane]

@TheOriginalCane @wspcane @NorthEastCane

You're all making fair points, so I'm just going to try to distill this one. Regardless of the Marshall situation, Brown still needed to be in this class. I don't factor Marshall into any evaluation of Rumph (or the staff at large, for that matter).

Both i and @Liberty City El have listed ad nauseam the reasons that we need Brown and the reasons that there is no excuse not to land him.

I think we're in agreement.. No one has questioned this.

That's why, for me, this is THE test for Rumph evaluation. If you can't land this recruit, under these circumstances, this year, you are not performing to expectations. I don't think this is a controversial assessment.

Agree 100% - I posted that same thought and sentiment just as you were posting yours. These guys are paid well in a results driven business. Do the job you were hired to do. No excuses in this recruitment.

Negotiating under these circumstances (and it is a negotiation as much as it's a recruitment) is never ideal. It smacks of desperation. It's just as easy to scare someone off as it is to attract them. That's one reason why I've questioned why we don't target these guys first, get them committed, then chase the 5*s.

With that being said, we need to get this guy. I'm tired of this blame game, whoever is the lead recruiter needs to get it done. Whether Rumph is the lead or not is irrelevant, he has a role to play in it. I can't imagine a top recruit coming in and not wanting to establish a relationship with his position coach.

They need to make this a done deal and move on.

 

[No_Fly_Zone]

@TheOriginalCane @wspcane @NorthEastCane

You're all making fair points, so I'm just going to try to distill this one. Regardless of the Marshall situation, Brown still needed to be in this class. I don't factor Marshall into any evaluation of Rumph (or the staff at large, for that matter).

Both i and @Liberty City El have listed ad nauseam the reasons that we need Brown and the reasons that there is no excuse not to land him.

That's why, for me, this is THE test for Rumph evaluation. If you can't land this recruit, under these circumstances, this year, you are not performing to expectations. I don't think this is a controversial assessment.

Zero lies detected.

 

[NorthEastCane]

We keep focusing on Rumph cause he’s here and the alleged non recruiting or alleged not allowed to evaluate rumors.
But we have to be clear that this is a problem that goes on at back before Rumph and he’s getting a lot of blame and I really do t think the problem will be fixed even if we get someone else.
There was a long discussion on this board about how running a 4.3 and being taller than 6 feet will likely get you drafted regardless.
So if the nfl is going to prioritize the speed and length skill set over other things then it’s obvious that the top schools are.
Being 6’2 and running 4.3 as a high school db is going to demand a lot of money. And at this point we are not winning to the point that a kid is going to overlook that amount of money.

You guys want Rumph to “develop” first round talent but go look at first round db’s and tell me what they ran the 40 in and how tall they are.

Ohio state ain’t developing jack sht!!!! All their db’s were tall and fast AF!!!
No db recruiters by them in the last 5 years ran a 4.7
If you run 4.3-4.4 in high school your catching everybody!!! And shutting down 99 percent of the receivers you face.

You add in the on-going move towards spread offenses, it makes these 6'2" guys running 4.3-4.4 the highest priced guys on the market.

 

[NicKane]

@TheOriginalCane @wspcane @NorthEastCane

You're all making fair points, so I'm just going to try to distill this one. Regardless of the Marshall situation, Brown still needed to be in this class. I don't factor Marshall into any evaluation of Rumph (or the staff at large, for that matter).

Both i and @Liberty City El have listed ad nauseam the reasons that we need Brown and the reasons that there is no excuse not to land him.

That's why, for me, this is THE test for Rumph evaluation. If you can't land this recruit, under these circumstances, this year, you are not performing to expectations. I don't think this is a controversial assessment.

Agree and if an employee consistently doesn’t perform up to expectations in his job especially 5 years in then he needs to be fired and replaced with someone who can. We’ve seen this before with head coaches and it cost them there job, to be a successful HC you have to make those tough decisions and I think Diaz has shown that and was ready to fire Rumph last year before his guy to replace him fell through. If Rumph again ***** the bed this year on the trail I believe Diaz will fire him and upgrade. And I say good riddance! Should have been done two years ago. Let him go to the pros if he’s such a “great developer” but can’t recruit. Of course this “great developer” nonsense is just a myth and something his cult followers throw out there to deflect but no ones buying that crap anymore.

 

[pacusmc]

You make great points but I gotta disagree with you slightly about the running fast thing as a corner lol sometimes being faster without any real knowledge or skill is a detriment to a defensive back. But it for sure makes the job easier

I’m not just saying take a track guy that never played and put him at db.
Most of these blue chip kids that run that fast and are that long have played both ways in high school and some barely played db but still get drafted high at the position.
But your correct, you absolutely have to have more than just straight line speed.