forums

WR separation.. Is is talent? or OC/QB

The data doesn't seem to fully match the "our WR's never get separation" narrative.

TVD is #1 in the ACC in completion % and #24 in the country. In 4 of his 5 P5 starts he's completed 64%+ of his passes.

So it would seem that if our WR's are getting no separation - you'd have to then credit TVD for threading the needle in tight windows, right?

If 1 thing is to blame, then something else needs to be credited to get to such a high completion %, right?
 
Advertisement
Even when we run patterns with 4 or 5, 75% of the targets are towards 2 players. You don't get wide open receivers when defenses drop 7 or 8 into coverage and really only have to focus on 2 threats.
 
HurikaneMarc said:
Noticed the same thing. Thought they were far too comfortable daring us to throw especialliy since we had time.

Colbie Young has 2 routes that he runs well.

Good Qb's can throw receivers open sometimes.
Click to expand...

Go, Digg, Out, Slant, Tunnel Screen, Seam- I'm pretty sure he has at least one catch for those.

Go- 2 caught vs FSU
Digg- 1 vs NCSt
Out- maybe one vs FSU otherwise, it has been a few games
Slant- NCSt
Digg- UVA
Tunnel- NCSt
Seam- NCSt (not targetted on 4th & 1)

George & X have run around 10 different routes with success.

TE- yikes
RB- double yikes

While I would love to see improvement in the WR room (especially speed with size), I believe our bigger issue is RB/TE with limited targets allowing defenses to ignore them as threats. Compound it by the bunched sets never used for passing and spread sets not getting enough run plays...
 
Last edited:
Random note but in the FSU game there was a play Emory was sacked, but we had crossers and our WR on the right (don‘t remember who) was about to come WIDE OPEN. But alas Emory was on his back.

Not sure where else to put that but it was on my mind. Sucks, was an easy TD and big play.

Upshot is there are plays to be had, but I also assumed we’d see that play again…don’t recall we did, though.
 
Advertisement
MiamiVice7 said:
Random note but in the FSU game there was a play Emory was sacked, but we had crossers and our WR on the right (don‘t remember who) was about to come WIDE OPEN. But alas Emory was on his back.

Not sure where else to put that but it was on my mind. Sucks, was an easy TD and big play.

Upshot is there are plays to be had, but I also assumed we’d see that play again…don’t recall we did, though.
Click to expand...
Cohen missed the blitzing backer but it could have been a bad line call.
 
305_separatist said:
Anyone who thinks we have the worst WRs in P5 is dumb sorry. Scheme absolutely can create separation.
Click to expand...
You can scheme a player to a hole in the defense you can not scheme a player to create separation vs a defender while running his route. Those are individual route running skills.

We don't have the worst wr's but only one starter for us was ranked in the top 20 wr's of their class. The other 2 starters were not top 100. Thats not good.
 
I don't think it's as big a problem as the rest…We don't have an "elite wr", I get it.

But the problem is QB play (and to some extent the offense)

Van Dyke from about game 4 on…And Emory Williams when he's played outside of a nice deep ball or two down the sidelines, short hops wide recievers 10 yards a way. Wide reciever like all positions in aspiring top 10-15 football programs has to continue upgrading talent, but I definitely think it's miles ahead of where it was.
 
Advertisement
I don’t see a lot of variance in route concepts on certain downs and distance.


Without fully nerding out… this team a lot like last year isn’t mixing things up better. Because there’s more tape to review it hadn’t been hard to figure what Miami is going to do on 3rd and 10. Or that “this WR” is going to run this route 90% of the time on this particular alignment/down and distance.

I’d like to know what’s being asked of our analyst…? Are they just “do” boys running errands or are they actually being asked to dissect what we’re doing on offense as opposing teams defensive analyst are doing to us?
 
Advertisement
Too many mirror routes going to the same place. A lot of our routes are run to the same spots, even from opposite hashes. All mostly the same depth on the field. I've seen them run slants and literally end up coming together in the middle of the field. We lined two guys up five yards apart last week and they both ran a slant to the middle, result was an incomplete pass.

Saw someone mention Young being a good route runner. I don't see that. He's got one of the laziest and sloppy slants I've seen. He doesn't even attempt to sell it, even when his number is called.

Our receivers are asked to do a lot of dumb ****. We are no longer effective throwing the ball and that'll eat at you as the game goes on. You eventually are just going through the motions.

No motion, attacking hashes out or down the field only. The entire middle of the field is typically wide open. We don't run many plays designed to get a RB or TE open. Short to intermediate throws are always there and hard to defend for any defense. People get ****ed here about short passing games, but it moves the chains. It's barely more risky than a run game, but you know who would rather those games come on the ground.

This offense has been killed. Ultimately I put that on the coaches. Some want to blame QB's, WR, etc, but there's throws to be made that they've all made since high school. Now, they suddenly can't do it. We usually try, at least it seems that way, when there isn't much of a choice. **** is ridiculous.
 
Advertisement
SayWhat said:
Too many mirror routes going to the same place. A lot of our routes are run to the same spots, even from opposite hashes. All mostly the same depth on the field. I've seen them run slants and literally end up coming together in the middle of the field. We lined two guys up five yards apart last week and they both ran a slant to the middle, result was an incomplete pass.

Saw someone mention Young being a good route runner. I don't see that. He's got one of the laziest and sloppy slants I've seen. He doesn't even attempt to sell it, even when his number is called.

Our receivers are asked to do a lot of dumb ****. We are no longer effective throwing the ball and that'll eat at you as the game goes on. You eventually are just going through the motions.

No motion, attacking hashes out or down the field only. The entire middle of the field is typically wide open. We don't run many plays designed to get a RB or TE open. Short to intermediate throws are always there and hard to defend for any defense. People get ****ed here about short passing games, but it moves the chains. It's barely more risky than a run game, but you know who would rather those games come on the ground.

This offense has been killed. Ultimately I put that on the coaches. Some want to blame QB's, WR, etc, but there's throws to be made that they've all made since high school. Now, they suddenly can't do it. We usually try, at least it seems that way, when there isn't much of a choice. **** is ridiculous.
Click to expand...
Great post, as usual!
 
YUMU said:
Went to watched about 40 condesed/Highlights games from different teams

Every **** team in the country has WRs getting 4 - 6 feet separation from from CB/S .. not to mention TE plays vs LB/S to not go crazy.

Every dawn team in America!

Now outside Horton(3 feet) and X being wide open vs ATM we got nothing, no separation at all with a OL giving time to drink a coffee and then throw the ball.

Is it talent? Is it scheme? Is it QB? All? Is ******* sickening

Truly I never seen anything like that ever except last year under Gattas 🤮
Click to expand...
Both WRs need to get more on their own but OC doesn’t scheme them open enough either
 
The few times we played man, we win those matchups quite consistently.
Against zone, we have a perfect storm of issues.

Coaching: We ain’t scheming much against zone. We run man beaters when defense playing zone, lol. For the life of me, don’t understand why we do no presnap motion. If nothing else, at least you have MUCH better idea of knowing man or zone, and often times, you can quickly see what kind of zone. But we prefer to make the read at the line with everyone standing still. TVD looks like a deer in headlights presnap. That’s on OC to help him by putting people in motion, even if to return to same spot before snap.

WR: In those moments that we actually run a zone beater at the right time, the routes ran are inconsistent. One person runs their route a couple steps too short or too long and we end up with a play that has multiple people in the same area. I used to coach HS 7v7 in Texas, and running zone beaters require route integrity. We’d run play over and over just so they understood spacing and timing of the play. We look like we have ran through the play once or twice. So in that regard, you can place blame on talent.
 
Advertisement
Back
Top