Why was Butch Davis so avg at UNC with more draft picks than

[itsacanething]

I'm definitely in the camp with the OP. I have lots of questions about what Butch could really do here. I know all of us remember the unreal run from 2000 through 2001 but that's a once in a lifetime type of thing. Some of the posters on this board are forgetting about what an awful game day coach Butch was back in the day. Count me in the camp of not being completely sold on Butch being the guy especially with the UNC stats as posted above.

I've posted similar concerns many times. Butch has a history of amassing lots of talent, occasionally staggering talent, and then underachieving. I remember the frustration of watching his teams in the late 90's well. But, I think I'm coming around. While Herman is intriguing and seems to have a solid attitude, he's been a head coach for less than a year. Coker looked like the real deal at that point in his HC career as well. Fuente is impressive, but the lack of defense is a concern (though, there were certainly times when I wondered where Butch's defenses had gone too, cough, 66-13). I'll confess, I don't know the college landscape well enough to identify the other up and comers. Hue Jackson sounds good as well, but probably has a pro gig lined up. Chip Kelly? Forget it.

Butch is a known commodity. With him, at least you know his teams will be tough and won't get pushed around. In a couple of years, he is likely to have them competing for championships; I'm not at all confident that he'll ever win one, but he can get them close. Not so sure about this with someone like Herman or Fuente.

And I don't even want to hear about Butch's former underlings as candidates. We wouldn't even know who Schiano, Mario, or Chud are if it weren't for Butch, and none have been particularly successful since leaving the program. And, out of them, Mario would be the worst. These guys are "Butch + Risk;" substantial risk. Why even look at them when Butch wants the job?

Butch's success in the future would, of course, depend on cooperation by the UM administration. They will need to be more flexible on admissions standards and in helping Butch retain his studs once they're admitted. I'm concerned that he won't have the same support that he had in the 90's or at UNC in that regard. Let's face it, Butch is not an x's and o's guy. He will flounder without the horses to work with. In order for him to be successful, the admin. needs to be sick of losing--but how can you be otherwise after living through the Golden Era?

Another advantage with Butch is that they can hire him now, and he can get a head start on locking down next year's class. No, he won't be on the sidelines this season, but he could be assembling the staff, providing predictability, and establishing relationships with recruits. That definitely beats a mad scramble with someone hired in December or, God forbid, January.

Butch certainly is not "a god." He definitely would generate excitement, though; and he gives UM a solid chance of returning to prominence. I'm not against giving him another shot.

I feel the same. people don't want to remember butch's questionable game day coaching from the late 90's. that being said the man will bring in the players and the coaching staff and they will compete. hopefully he grooms an assistant to hand the thing over when the time is right.

 

[KevinCaneFace]

 

[CaneScott]

I dont get why everyone is jizzing them selves over Butch Davis? He wouldnt be a horrible choice but I definitely feel like we can get a better coach. I know a lot of you are making tons of excuses for his time in North Carolina but it is a simple fact that he was barely over .500 there.

 

[Hurricane23]

Butch Davis is a God.

He's human but he's a **** good corch

 

[INCaneFan]

I posted this in another thread but it might as well be seen here also -

Ok, lets talk about the 2010 season, the NFL talent that got drafted, and the 13 players who were suspended.

First round, player 14, Robert Quinn. Suspended the entire year. That means did not play one game in 2010.
Second round 40th player overall, Bruce Carter. Missed the last three games of the season with a knee injury. Team 2-1
Second round 54th player overall, Marvin Austin. Suspended the entire year. That means did not play one game in 2010.
Second round 57th player overall, Greg Little. Suspended the entire year. That means did not play one game in 2010.
Fourth round 10th player overall, Da'Norris Searcy. Missed the first three games of the year. Team 1-2
Fifth round 133th player overall, Johnny White. Converted to running back in 2010. Season ending injury in 9th game. Team 2-2
Fifth round 152 player overall, T.J. Yates. Played the whole year 19td- 9int. Has started 5 games in the NFL with 3tds and 7 int. 70.3 rating.
Sixth round 171st player overall, Quan Sturdivant. Played 8 games hard to say how the team did without him but I think they only lost one game while he was gone.
Seventh round 218th player overall, Ryan Taylor. Played in every game.

So, of the players four drafted in the first two rounds, Butch got a total of one guy for 10 games. That's a lot of talent missing, so saying "he had all this talent but couldn't win the Corstal" is smoke and mirrors bull****. Of the nine guys drafted only two of them were available every game. Three of the five losses are by less than a TD. Stop it with this argument already.

Season end ranked teams he beat 4. Ranked teams he beat - 8.

2010 was the year UNC was expected to bust out. That was #BBB 's fourth year, and about where everyone expects a coach to show real progress when he inherits a dumpster fire like UNC. Only two of #BBB 's "NFL talent" played the whole year. He still managed to beat two teams that finished the season ranked.

So you're saying he had talent the year before, in 2009? So why didn't he do better than 8 wins that year?

We're a dumpster fire, wouldn't you agree? You excused the first three years of his with your last paragraph. So does that mean you'd wait four years for him here? Really, it seems you'd be okay waiting until year five, as they were at UNC, since you just excused that entire season away. Why didn't he have the backups ready?

Honestly, nothing you posted was I unaware of. I'm just not into excuses and that's all you tried to do, excuse his failures in the win / loss department. People crave a repeat of the end of Butch's time here so badly that they'll overlook the obvious to get him here and it's sad.

 

[timepiece]

I dont get why everyone is jizzing them selves over Butch Davis? He wouldnt be a horrible choice but I definitely feel like we can get a better coach. I know a lot of you are making tons of excuses for his time in North Carolina but it is a simple fact that he was barely over .500 there.

Same.. Still remember a lot of people calling him "Botch Davis" that being said I'd rather have him coaching Miami instead of F A G

 

[919cane]

We'll ignore the fact that he was a coach and recruiting coordinator for a National Championship team at Miami.

We'll ignore the fact that he was a coach on back to back Super Bowl Champions (Defensive Coordinator for 1) in Dallas.

We'll ignore the fact that Miami finished in the Top 20 of the final AP poll (3 times in the Top 15) in 5 of the 6 seasons he was Head Coach at Miami (under heavy sanctions).

We'll ignore the fact that he assembled the greatest collection of talent in the history of the sport while at Miami. Let's also ignore that when he left Miami we were so far the #1 program in the nation that Larry Coker of all people was able to coast to a National Championship and an awful call away from back to back titles.

We'll ignore the fact that the only time the Browns have made the playoffs since 1994 was in 2002 when he was Head Coach.

Let's just focus on the fact that he couldn't win the ACC Coastal at UNC.

 

[da truth]

Op.... Al Golden us not a good coach. End of story. If you don't like Butch that's fine but to rationalize that al us a better coach than Butch is mind boggling. Have you not followed this team? After a losing record last yr Golden didn't make 1 change in staff or scheme.

His inability to coach during games was maybe the worst I've ever seen.

 

[JimmyJohnsonsHair]

If they are adamant about hiring a guy with "Miami ties", there is no reason to look further than Butch Davis. Would anyone seriously rather have Mario, Schiano, or Chud than Butch? Now if they want to go outside the program, then Herman and Fuente are great candidates, IMO. But there is simply no reason to hire Mario, Schiano, or Chud when Butch is available and begging for the job.

 

[OzarCaneSaw]

Lets compare apples to apples.

Al Golden after 4 years at Miami = .560
Butch Davis after 4 years at Miami = .673

Al Golden lost 9 schollys
Butch Davis lost 31 schollys

Butch Davis final 2 years at Miami = .800
If anyone thinks that Golden would have done the same over the rest of this year and next is insane.

 

[FullyERicht]

Lotta jags on that list.

I have wondered recently if the reason so many Carolina dudes got drafted was simply bc Butch recruited them, and his Miami player success rate was off the charts.

I'd hire Butch if the elite in their prime coaches turn you down.

 

[CaneSwag]

We'll ignore the fact that he was a coach and recruiting coordinator for a National Championship team at Miami.

We'll ignore the fact that he was a coach on back to back Super Bowl Champions (Defensive Coordinator for 1) in Dallas.

We'll ignore the fact that Miami finished in the Top 20 of the final AP poll (3 times in the Top 15) in 5 of the 6 seasons he was Head Coach at Miami (under heavy sanctions).

We'll ignore the fact that he assembled the greatest collection of talent in the history of the sport while at Miami. Let's also ignore that when he left Miami we were so far the #1 program in the nation that Larry Coker of all people was able to coast to a National Championship and an awful call away from back to back titles.

We'll ignore the fact that the only time the Browns have made the playoffs since 1994 was in 2002 when he was Head Coach.

Let's just focus on the fact that he couldn't win the ACC Coastal at UNC.

Getting the Browns to the playoffs should probably be at the top of his resume.

 

[919cane]

We'll ignore the fact that he was a coach and recruiting coordinator for a National Championship team at Miami.

We'll ignore the fact that he was a coach on back to back Super Bowl Champions (Defensive Coordinator for 1) in Dallas.

We'll ignore the fact that Miami finished in the Top 20 of the final AP poll (3 times in the Top 15) in 5 of the 6 seasons he was Head Coach at Miami (under heavy sanctions).

We'll ignore the fact that he assembled the greatest collection of talent in the history of the sport while at Miami. Let's also ignore that when he left Miami we were so far the #1 program in the nation that Larry Coker of all people was able to coast to a National Championship and an awful call away from back to back titles.

We'll ignore the fact that the only time the Browns have made the playoffs since 1994 was in 2002 when he was Head Coach.

Let's just focus on the fact that he couldn't win the ACC Coastal at UNC.

Getting the Browns to the playoffs should probably be at the top of his resume.

Ha, you're right. The 2 coaches to take them to the playoffs since 1989 are Butch Davis and Bill Belichick.

 

[bobshrum]

Bottom line is that UNC was a laughing stock before Butch showed up. The previous coach was John Bunting not Mack Brown. Butch made them instantly relevant, and his last year would have been akin to 2000 Miami had the NCAA disaster not occured.

 

[CaneSwag]

We'll ignore the fact that he was a coach and recruiting coordinator for a National Championship team at Miami.

We'll ignore the fact that he was a coach on back to back Super Bowl Champions (Defensive Coordinator for 1) in Dallas.

We'll ignore the fact that Miami finished in the Top 20 of the final AP poll (3 times in the Top 15) in 5 of the 6 seasons he was Head Coach at Miami (under heavy sanctions).

We'll ignore the fact that he assembled the greatest collection of talent in the history of the sport while at Miami. Let's also ignore that when he left Miami we were so far the #1 program in the nation that Larry Coker of all people was able to coast to a National Championship and an awful call away from back to back titles.

We'll ignore the fact that the only time the Browns have made the playoffs since 1994 was in 2002 when he was Head Coach.

Let's just focus on the fact that he couldn't win the ACC Coastal at UNC.

Getting the Browns to the playoffs should probably be at the top of his resume.

Ha, you're right. The 2 coaches to take them to the playoffs since 1989 are Butch Davis and Bill Belichick.

Coincidence? I think not.

But, to address the point of this thread - Butch has always been known for amassing a gross amount of talent and more importantly developing that talent to its full potential. IMO talent development is the biggest differentiating factor between him and Folden. Golden did do an alright job recruiting talent, but was completely inept at developing it and putting it into favorable situations on field. You can gripe about Butch's occasional struggles as a gameday coach, but the reality is that (1) he's had real success even with those struggles and (2) he's only gotten more seasoned as a play caller since his first stint at Miami. You would have to be delusional to think he wouldn't have won at the very least two national championships if he had never left Miami. Think of it this way, if a two time champion who completely rebuilt the program he won with wanted to coach virtually any program in the nation, he'd get the job no questions asked.

 

[sabrose]

Butch went 8-5 with half his team suspended in his last year and won the coastal.They vacated it to us and we vacated it to GT. The majority of his talent was drafted in his last year that year.. With all his starters ita likely he had a top 10 team. People get on here and make statements off the top of their head without facts.

 

[Mira60]

Mack Brown > Butch Davis

 

[MovingZen]

I posted this in another thread but it might as well be seen here also -

Ok, lets talk about the 2010 season, the NFL talent that got drafted, and the 13 players who were suspended.

First round, player 14, Robert Quinn. Suspended the entire year. That means did not play one game in 2010.
Second round 40th player overall, Bruce Carter. Missed the last three games of the season with a knee injury. Team 2-1
Second round 54th player overall, Marvin Austin. Suspended the entire year. That means did not play one game in 2010.
Second round 57th player overall, Greg Little. Suspended the entire year. That means did not play one game in 2010.
Fourth round 10th player overall, Da'Norris Searcy. Missed the first three games of the year. Team 1-2
Fifth round 133th player overall, Johnny White. Converted to running back in 2010. Season ending injury in 9th game. Team 2-2
Fifth round 152 player overall, T.J. Yates. Played the whole year 19td- 9int. Has started 5 games in the NFL with 3tds and 7 int. 70.3 rating.
Sixth round 171st player overall, Quan Sturdivant. Played 8 games hard to say how the team did without him but I think they only lost one game while he was gone.
Seventh round 218th player overall, Ryan Taylor. Played in every game.

So, of the players four drafted in the first two rounds, Butch got a total of one guy for 10 games. That's a lot of talent missing, so saying "he had all this talent but couldn't win the Corstal" is smoke and mirrors bull****. Of the nine guys drafted only two of them were available every game. Three of the five losses are by less than a TD. Stop it with this argument already.

Season end ranked teams he beat 4. Ranked teams he beat - 8.

2010 was the year UNC was expected to bust out. That was [URL=https://www.canesinsight.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=BBB]#BBB [/URL] 's fourth year, and about where everyone expects a coach to show real progress when he inherits a dumpster fire like UNC. Only two of [URL=https://www.canesinsight.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=BBB]#BBB [/URL] 's "NFL talent" played the whole year. He still managed to beat two teams that finished the season ranked.

So you're saying he had talent the year before, in 2009? So why didn't he do better than 8 wins that year?

We're a dumpster fire, wouldn't you agree? You excused the first three years of his with your last paragraph. So does that mean you'd wait four years for him here? Really, it seems you'd be okay waiting until year five, as they were at UNC, since you just excused that entire season away. Why didn't he have the backups ready?

Honestly, nothing you posted was I unaware of. I'm just not into excuses and that's all you tried to do, excuse his failures in the win / loss department. People crave a repeat of the end of Butch's time here so badly that they'll overlook the obvious to get him here and it's sad.

They were underclassmen, expected to truly break out in the 2010 season. 3 of his 5 losses that year were by a total of 6 points. He didn't get ******* blown out in his own stadium by 58 points while fielding a team full of dudes who will play on Sunday.
No I don't agree we're a dumpster fire. I think we have talent but a **** poor coaching staff. Prior to taking over UNC they had **** poor talent and a **** poor corching staff. IMO that's a true dumpster fire. No I wouldn't wait 4 years for him here, there's plenty of talent on roster. Not having 3 of your top 4 players and still beating ranked teams is an upgrade over what we have here now. How is it over looking the obvious when the claim is he had all this NFL talent but couldn't win the corstal.. when he didn't actually have the talent claimed on the field at the same time. It's misleading at best.
You got op blowing up Hakeen Nicks when dude was drafted in 2009. He didn't even play the last two season #BBB was at UNC, but he did contribute to a winning season in Butch's second year. You gotta be a running back or a quarterback to carry a team. A WR aint winning the Corstal.

 

[Jakec15]

Literally had his entire UNC team suspended that last year and somehow still got 8 wins .

 

[Jakec15]

Also who cares what he did at UNC?

What did JJ do at Oklahoma State? What did Dennis do anywhere other then Miami?

As long as he can win here who the **** cares?