Why was Butch Davis so avg at UNC with more draft picks than

I'm definitely in the camp with the OP. I have lots of questions about what Butch could really do here. I know all of us remember the unreal run from 2000 through 2001 but that's a once in a lifetime type of thing. Some of the posters on this board are forgetting about what an awful game day coach Butch was back in the day. Count me in the camp of not being completely sold on Butch being the guy especially with the UNC stats as posted above.

I've posted similar concerns many times. Butch has a history of amassing lots of talent, occasionally staggering talent, and then underachieving. I remember the frustration of watching his teams in the late 90's well. But, I think I'm coming around. While Herman is intriguing and seems to have a solid attitude, he's been a head coach for less than a year. Coker looked like the real deal at that point in his HC career as well. Fuente is impressive, but the lack of defense is a concern (though, there were certainly times when I wondered where Butch's defenses had gone too, cough, 66-13). I'll confess, I don't know the college landscape well enough to identify the other up and comers. Hue Jackson sounds good as well, but probably has a pro gig lined up. Chip Kelly? Forget it.

Butch is a known commodity. With him, at least you know his teams will be tough and won't get pushed around. In a couple of years, he is likely to have them competing for championships; I'm not at all confident that he'll ever win one, but he can get them close. Not so sure about this with someone like Herman or Fuente.

And I don't even want to hear about Butch's former underlings as candidates. We wouldn't even know who Schiano, Mario, or Chud are if it weren't for Butch, and none have been particularly successful since leaving the program. And, out of them, Mario would be the worst. These guys are "Butch + Risk;" substantial risk. Why even look at them when Butch wants the job?

Butch's success in the future would, of course, depend on cooperation by the UM administration. They will need to be more flexible on admissions standards and in helping Butch retain his studs once they're admitted. I'm concerned that he won't have the same support that he had in the 90's or at UNC in that regard. Let's face it, Butch is not an x's and o's guy. He will flounder without the horses to work with. In order for him to be successful, the admin. needs to be sick of losing--but how can you be otherwise after living through the Golden Era?

Another advantage with Butch is that they can hire him now, and he can get a head start on locking down next year's class. No, he won't be on the sidelines this season, but he could be assembling the staff, providing predictability, and establishing relationships with recruits. That definitely beats a mad scramble with someone hired in December or, God forbid, January.

Butch certainly is not "a god." He definitely would generate excitement, though; and he gives UM a solid chance of returning to prominence. I'm not against giving him another shot.
 
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I'm definitely in the camp with the OP. I have lots of questions about what Butch could really do here. I know all of us remember the unreal run from 2000 through 2001 but that's a once in a lifetime type of thing. Some of the posters on this board are forgetting about what an awful game day coach Butch was back in the day. Count me in the camp of not being completely sold on Butch being the guy especially with the UNC stats as posted above.

I've posted similar concerns many times. Butch has a history of amassing lots of talent, occasionally staggering talent, and then underachieving. I remember the frustration of watching his teams in the late 90's well. But, I think I'm coming around. While Herman is intriguing and seems to have a solid attitude, he's been a head coach for less than a year. Coker looked like the real deal at that point in his HC career as well. Fuente is impressive, but the lack of defense is a concern (though, there were certainly times when I wondered where Butch's defenses had gone too, cough, 66-13). I'll confess, I don't know the college landscape well enough to identify the other up and comers. Hue Jackson sounds good as well, but probably has a pro gig lined up. Chip Kelly? Forget it.

Butch is a known commodity. With him, at least you know his teams will be tough and won't get pushed around. In a couple of years, he is likely to have them competing for championships; I'm not at all confident that he'll ever win one, but he can get them close. Not so sure about this with someone like Herman or Fuente.

And I don't even want to hear about Butch's former underlings as candidates. We wouldn't even know who Schiano, Mario, or Chud are if it weren't for Butch, and none have been particularly successful since leaving the program. And, out of them, Mario would be the worst. These guys are "Butch + Risk;" substantial risk. Why even look at them when Butch wants the job?

Butch's success in the future would, of course, depend on cooperation by the UM administration. They will need to be more flexible on admissions standards and in helping Butch retain his studs once they're admitted. I'm concerned that he won't have the same support that he had in the 90's or at UNC in that regard. Let's face it, Butch is not an x's and o's guy. He will flounder without the horses to work with. In order for him to be successful, the admin. needs to be sick of losing--but how can you be otherwise after living through the Golden Era?

Another advantage with Butch is that they can hire him now, and he can get a head start on locking down next year's class. No, he won't be on the sidelines this season, but he could be assembling the staff, providing predictability, and establishing relationships with recruits. That definitely beats a mad scramble with someone hired in December or, God forbid, January.

Butch certainly is not "a god." He definitely would generate excitement, though; and he gives UM a solid chance of returning to prominence. I'm not against giving him another shot.

An excellent take on Butch. The need for the AD to allow Butch to hire a stud OC is huge here.

That said, the trashing of Bush we're seeing here and elsewhere isn't happening spontaneously, IMHO.
 
Butch didn't have a qb. Yates was inconsistent. He would have some good games but then have games where he played like ****.

He comes here he would have kaaya and will win right away.
 
Please. Butch won 8 games in his third season. Al won 6 in his fourth with a much more talented team. Butch had UNC on the verge of turning when they couldn't win more than three games the two seasons before him and those were mostly D2 schools. Young talented teams lose games they shouldn't before they put it all together.TCU won 4 games the year before going on a big run. You want to question Patterson too?

Your talking about a guy that built the greatest college football team of all time.
Took the Browns to the playoffs.
Was a part of Super Bowl winning coaching staffs.
But we're questioning him because in he didn't win the ACC in three years at a trash football school? They haven't won the ACC since 1980
 
Butch is clearly my top choice.

But he has an opportunity for improvement, too. He should get a high quality, aggressive OC. And he (Butch) should also be a bit more aggressive overall.

Other than that, I'm fine with him. He's a difference maker in some areas, such as recruiting and player development...

Overall, I'd say he's a very good coach - not a difference maker. However, given time (and a couple championships - national championships) he would have a chance to show that he is a difference maker. I believe he has the potential to be a difference maker as a coach overall, but it needs to be proven on the field....

Please. Butch won 8 games in his third season. Al won 6 in his fourth with a much more talented team. Butch had UNC on the verge of turning when they couldn't win more than three games the two seasons before him and those were mostly D2 schools. Young talented teams lose games they shouldn't before they put it all together.TCU won 4 games the year before going on a big run. You want to question Patterson too?

Your talking about a guy that built the greatest college football team of all time.
Took the Browns to the playoffs.
Was a part of Super Bowl winning coaching staffs.
But we're questioning him because in he didn't win the ACC in three years at a trash football school? They haven't won the ACC since 1980
 
He was taking over a 3-9 team and that hadn't been bowling in 2 years. Don't tell me nothing about Mack brown, North Carolina only got invited to one bowl game in the five years prior to Butch Davis and his last year when he had all those guys fully developed studs they got in trouble.
 
He was taking over a 3-9 team and that hadn't been bowling in 2 years. Don't tell me nothing about Mack brown, North Carolina only got invited to one bowl game in the five years prior to Butch Davis and his last year when he had all those guys fully developed studs they got in trouble.

what does the team prior to butch have to do witth he players he assembled and not doing squat with them?

Zero Coastal
Finished season unranked
More Talent then GOlden
 
You say last year Al Golden had all those draft picks and didn't win?

Butch Davis had MORE talent @ UNC and did less.

marvin Austin
Greg Little
Quentin Coples
Bruce Carter
DaNorris Searcy
Zach Brown
Johnathon Cooper
Sylvester Williams
Hakeem Nicks
Brandon tate
Richard QUinn
Brroks Foster
EJ Williams
Johnny White
Quan Sturdivant
Ryan Taylor
Kentwan Balmer
Cam THomas
Garret Reynolds
TJ Yates


So what;'s the excuse?

Some of those players like Nicks were big time WR who won a super bowl.

Come and make the excuses boys. THe savior had more talent then Golden @ UNC and did less.

Prove me wrong, O wait you can't.

This list is exactly why we need him. Eye for talent can develop players.
 
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The coach before Mack Brown was 72-41. The coach before Butch was 27-45. Butch still got a much better head start. So, the comparison game was fun. Glad that's done with.

WHy are you ignoring all the NFL talent that he didnt win with?

Isn't that what you bashed GOlden for?

LOL.

I did have *** with some married **** with the last name Herman. I was finding and developing NFL talent back in those days.

proxy.php

More talent on UNC and did worse than Golden.

NEver won the coastal.

Also he beat florida state twice at UNC and us 3 times, along with multiple ranked teams. So for you do say Al did better is a disgrace.

worse record than al with a better team

next.

He was taking over a 3-9 team and that hadn't been bowling in 2 years. Don't tell me nothing about Mack brown, North Carolina only got invited to one bowl game in the five years prior to Butch Davis and his last year when he had all those guys fully developed studs they got in trouble.

what does the team prior to butch have to do witth he players he assembled and not doing squat with them?

Zero Coastal
Finished season unranked
More Talent then GOlden

He didn't have more talent overall until his fourth season. It does matter taking over a multiple season 3 win team. It takes years to rebuild that kind of stink.
 
I posted this in another thread but it might as well be seen here also -

Ok, lets talk about the 2010 season, the NFL talent that got drafted, and the 13 players who were suspended.

First round, player 14, Robert Quinn. Suspended the entire year. That means did not play one game in 2010.
Second round 40th player overall, Bruce Carter. Missed the last three games of the season with a knee injury. Team 2-1
Second round 54th player overall, Marvin Austin. Suspended the entire year. That means did not play one game in 2010.
Second round 57th player overall, Greg Little. Suspended the entire year. That means did not play one game in 2010.
Fourth round 10th player overall, Da'Norris Searcy. Missed the first three games of the year. Team 1-2
Fifth round 133th player overall, Johnny White. Converted to running back in 2010. Season ending injury in 9th game. Team 2-2
Fifth round 152 player overall, T.J. Yates. Played the whole year 19td- 9int. Has started 5 games in the NFL with 3tds and 7 int. 70.3 rating.
Sixth round 171st player overall, Quan Sturdivant. Played 8 games hard to say how the team did without him but I think they only lost one game while he was gone.
Seventh round 218th player overall, Ryan Taylor. Played in every game.

So, of the players four drafted in the first two rounds, Butch got a total of one guy for 10 games. That's a lot of talent missing, so saying "he had all this talent but couldn't win the Corstal" is smoke and mirrors bull****. Of the nine guys drafted only two of them were available every game. Three of the five losses are by less than a TD. Stop it with this argument already.

Season end ranked teams he beat 4. Ranked teams he beat - 8.

2010 was the year UNC was expected to bust out. That was #BBB 's fourth year, and about where everyone expects a coach to show real progress when he inherits a dumpster fire like UNC. Only two of #BBB 's "NFL talent" played the whole year. He still managed to beat two teams that finished the season ranked.
 
OP is most definitely an alternate account.

Hilarious that these dudes don't have the balls to continue posting on their old accounts.
 
OP is all about Herman. Funny thing is almost everybody would be happy if Herman is the guy. But trolling Butch for three years at a bad football school while ignoring the rest of his career makes you sound dumb.
 
OP is all about Herman. Funny thing is almost everybody would be happy if Herman is the guy. But trolling Butch for three years at a bad football school while ignoring the rest of his career makes you sound dumb.

Exactly. Herman is my 1b, not even #2 .

Threads like this are completely and utterly retarded.
 
The important point is that we're discussing the HC job at Miami.

With that in mind, what should be viewed is production while at Miami.

He was on the precipice of creating the strongest of the Miami dynasties (it was actually already here in 2000 when he left).

It doesn't matter what Jimmy Johnson did at Ok St; it matters what he did at Miami.

It doesn't matter what Schnellenberger (or Erickson) did after Miami. It mattered what they did at Miami.

Butch isn't applying for a HC job at UNC - at least as far as I know.



He was taking over a 3-9 team and that hadn't been bowling in 2 years. Don't tell me nothing about Mack brown, North Carolina only got invited to one bowl game in the five years prior to Butch Davis and his last year when he had all those guys fully developed studs they got in trouble.

what does the team prior to butch have to do witth he players he assembled and not doing squat with them?

Zero Coastal
Finished season unranked
More Talent then GOlden
 
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didn't have a great qb and weren't a lot of those guys suspended due to their contact with agents?
 
The year he was poised to make a run he had several players suspended for the season.

12 Tar Heels were invited to the NFL combine, more than any other university in the nation. 19 players participated in the annual university pro day, which attracted nearly 100 scouts and coaches from the NFL.[26] Many of the players participating, however, missed either part or all of the games played this season due to the above-mentioned investigation. Because of this, it has led many fans and observers to wonder how good this team could have been had all of the talent been available for the entire season. With 9 players selected in the draft, the Tar Heels were tied with USC as having the most players selected from a single school in this draft.

With 12 guys suspended they almost beat LSU losing 30-24.

That season was setting up to be a monstor before the suspensions. He still managed to beat Clemson ,FSU and Tennessee.
Stop it with your pesky facts and details.
 
I posted this in another thread but it might as well be seen here also -

Ok, lets talk about the 2010 season, the NFL talent that got drafted, and the 13 players who were suspended.

First round, player 14, Robert Quinn. Suspended the entire year. That means did not play one game in 2010.
Second round 40th player overall, Bruce Carter. Missed the last three games of the season with a knee injury. Team 2-1
Second round 54th player overall, Marvin Austin. Suspended the entire year. That means did not play one game in 2010.
Second round 57th player overall, Greg Little. Suspended the entire year. That means did not play one game in 2010.
Fourth round 10th player overall, Da'Norris Searcy. Missed the first three games of the year. Team 1-2
Fifth round 133th player overall, Johnny White. Converted to running back in 2010. Season ending injury in 9th game. Team 2-2
Fifth round 152 player overall, T.J. Yates. Played the whole year 19td- 9int. Has started 5 games in the NFL with 3tds and 7 int. 70.3 rating.
Sixth round 171st player overall, Quan Sturdivant. Played 8 games hard to say how the team did without him but I think they only lost one game while he was gone.
Seventh round 218th player overall, Ryan Taylor. Played in every game.

So, of the players four drafted in the first two rounds, Butch got a total of one guy for 10 games. That's a lot of talent missing, so saying "he had all this talent but couldn't win the Corstal" is smoke and mirrors bull****. Of the nine guys drafted only two of them were available every game. Three of the five losses are by less than a TD. Stop it with this argument already.

Season end ranked teams he beat 4. Ranked teams he beat - 8.

2010 was the year UNC was expected to bust out. That was #BBB 's fourth year, and about where everyone expects a coach to show real progress when he inherits a dumpster fire like UNC. Only two of #BBB 's "NFL talent" played the whole year. He still managed to beat two teams that finished the season ranked.
Another guy bringing those pesky facts to the table. How dare you.
 
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