What the First Round of the College Playoffs Tells Us

[fivecent]

I learned that Im very happy Urban left the state of Florida. Dude can straight coach. He stepped in at Columbus and won right away. Now he goes out and beats Bama with a 3rd string QB. So now the question is where do we go from here? Hypothetically speaking lets say Al gets fired, is Butch gonna be enough? What we know about him is that he will be able to evaluate, recruit and develop, as he proved at UNC that he didn't just get lucky during his tenure at Miami, but can he sufficient enough on game?

I remember Butch being somewhat of a mess on game day, but more often than not our talent won out. I still think that at the end of the day, superior talent will win now out and we can get that superior talent. I don't think there was a true elite team this year. Bama is not Bama from 09 or 11, they were a solid team but had tons of holes especially in the secondary, and from an offensive standpoint were bailed out by Cooper, who should have been a difference maker for us. Also to consider, I am one that believes that a lot of the SEC hype is warranted but its run from 06-12 where they were without question the best conference is over, as they were drastically overrated the last 2 years, especially this year. Even look at FSU, they were once again a **** good team, but they weren't as dominant as last year. Their LB cores were weak this year and decimated through attrition and injuries, and their offensive talent wasn't there either. What Im trying to say is that there isn't a 2001 and 2002 Miami, 2002 tOSU, 2004 USC, 08 Okie and 08 UF, and 09 and 11 Bama team his year in the playoff, and Miami with a competent HC can field a team of that caliber 2-3 times a decade.

Its all about difference makers, take 08 UF vs 08 OU. That OU team was stacked and one of the best coached offenses Ive ever seen, but when the chips were down Percy Harvin and Tebow took over that game and there wasn't a **** thing anybody could do about it. I agree that you strategists but if you get the special players, which we are knee deep in down SFLA, you will win titles.

Thank you. This was more of the discussion I hoped for. Anyway, the point about 08 UF vs 08 OU is about conversions. Meaningful games, at whatever level, increasingly become about conversions on both sides of the ball. That means that, yes, individual talent will seem extremely important in those plays. But, good strategy to get in the right down and distance will also be critical. To your point, Urban was all over that today. He managed the game like a cot**** artist. Bama had more talent and Meyer and his coaching staff were just on top of every aspect. The guy is a world-class f'head, but a detailed m'f'ing coach.

I think there does come a point where superior talent trumps strategy. However in today's football, its hard to get enough superior talent on one team. The two locales that might be the exception with the right coach are Cali and............Miami.

 

[User-4525]

I learned today two things: 1)that speed is STILL the number one factor in college ball. 2) turnovers decide bowl games

Oregon defense was shredded in some ways, but their speed eliminated big plays and helped generate tons of turnovers. Obviously offensively they were freakish.

TCU has speed EVERYWHERE and absolutely demolished the number 1 defense in the SEC on offense, and their defensive speed stifled a mediocre QB.

OSU has a more team speed than Bama, particularly in their front.

The lesson is the same as the one Jimmy Johnson taught us 30 years ago. It's the same lesson Gary Patterson lives by: recruit the fastest best athletes who are used to touching the football, and find a home for them. Oregon does it, TCU does it. It works unbelievably well in Miami, and you don't have to fight over and pay the blue chip recruits.

Agree with everything here.

On offense we did not utilize our speed enough with Coley & Dorsett

and on defense we do not allow Grace, Mccord, Burns, etc. to be successful by breaking them down and trying to teach them things too complicated, uncustomary, and passive than what they're used to

 

[FullyERicht]

It's not just putting the guys we currently have in the right position. It's an entire team building philosophy. It's about how you recruit.

It makes less than zero sense to try to build a power football, 2-gap 3-4 team at this school. None.

 

[User-4525]

It's not just putting the guys we currently have in the right position. It's an entire team building philosophy. It's about how you recruit.

It makes less than zero sense to try to build a power football, 2-gap 3-4 team at this school. None.

Agree but i was just talking on a micro level. I would love Butch, but if we go in a different direction I want our own Gary Patterson, Art Briles, Mark H., etc.

 

[Supercane85]

It's not just putting the guys we currently have in the right position. It's an entire team building philosophy. It's about how you recruit.

It makes less than zero sense to try to build a power football, 2-gap 3-4 team at this school. None.

To be fair we would not switch QBs... I think if UM and Oregon switched rosters Oregon would be even better with our players.

If Oregon had Clive Wolford, Duke Johnson, Stacy Coley, Phillip Dorsett and Herb Waters their Offense would be even better.

While Oregon players under Golden would terrible

 

[FullyERicht]

It's not just putting the guys we currently have in the right position. It's an entire team building philosophy. It's about how you recruit.

It makes less than zero sense to try to build a power football, 2-gap 3-4 team at this school. None.

To be fair we would not switch QBs... I think if UM and Oregon switched rosters Oregon would be even better with our players.

If Oregon had Clive Wolford, Duke Johnson, Stacy Coley, Phillip Dorsett and Herb Waters their Offense would be even better.

While Oregon players under Golden would terrible

Ok great and in fantasy land that would be cool.

As for how to apply what we learned in the real world, the point is when you are in an area of freakish athletes who play the game a certain way, you should build your entire team based around that.

 

[bobbydigius]

I learned that Im very happy Urban left the state of Florida. Dude can straight coach. He stepped in at Columbus and won right away. Now he goes out and beats Bama with a 3rd string QB. So now the question is where do we go from here? Hypothetically speaking lets say Al gets fired, is Butch gonna be enough? What we know about him is that he will be able to evaluate, recruit and develop, as he proved at UNC that he didn't just get lucky during his tenure at Miami, but can he sufficient enough on game?

I remember Butch being somewhat of a mess on game day, but more often than not our talent won out. I still think that at the end of the day, superior talent will win now out and we can get that superior talent. I don't think there was a true elite team this year. Bama is not Bama from 09 or 11, they were a solid team but had tons of holes especially in the secondary, and from an offensive standpoint were bailed out by Cooper, who should have been a difference maker for us. Also to consider, I am one that believes that a lot of the SEC hype is warranted but its run from 06-12 where they were without question the best conference is over, as they were drastically overrated the last 2 years, especially this year. Even look at FSU, they were once again a **** good team, but they weren't as dominant as last year. Their LB cores were weak this year and decimated through attrition and injuries, and their offensive talent wasn't there either. What Im trying to say is that there isn't a 2001 and 2002 Miami, 2002 tOSU, 2004 USC, 08 Okie and 08 UF, and 09 and 11 Bama team his year in the playoff, and Miami with a competent HC can field a team of that caliber 2-3 times a decade.

Its all about difference makers, take 08 UF vs 08 OU. That OU team was stacked and one of the best coached offenses Ive ever seen, but when the chips were down Percy Harvin and Tebow took over that game and there wasn't a **** thing anybody could do about it. I agree that you strategists but if you get the special players, which we are knee deep in down SFLA, you will win titles.

Thank you. This was more of the discussion I hoped for. Anyway, the point about 08 UF vs 08 OU is about conversions. Meaningful games, at whatever level, increasingly become about conversions on both sides of the ball. That means that, yes, individual talent will seem extremely important in those plays. But, good strategy to get in the right down and distance will also be critical. To your point, Urban was all over that today. He managed the game like a cot**** artist. Bama had more talent and Meyer and his coaching staff were just on top of every aspect. The guy is a world-class f'head, but a detailed m'f'ing coach.

What Urban and his staff did tonight should be put up in a CFB museum, and I do agree with the conversions comment, but as you said conversions happen when you have those special players. Like in that very game, when the game was on the line and OU was playing their A game, moving the ball at will, Spikes and company made the big plays. When UF needed a play you knew the ball was going to Harvin or Tebow was gonna will his way to a first down, and when it counted there was anything OU could do.

 

[fivecent]

To make the case for talent, I would look at the FSU v Oregon game. The game should have been a shoot out.FSU could march up and down the field on Oregon. The game was close until FSU's superior young offensive talent showed their youth with turnovers. Same players, a year later, FSU wins.



ok, a bit of speculation............. bobbydigius makes the point better.

 

[weownfsu]

To make the case for talent, I would look at the FSU v Oregon game. The game should have been a shoot out.FSU could march up and down the field on Oregon. The game was close until FSU's superior young offensive talent showed their youth with turnovers. Same players, a year later, FSU wins.

Oh please. Jameis Winston was not a "young" talent.

 

[emrok]

Well, the defense that is put out weekly was used in the 90s to stop NFL offenses. They didn't have mobile qbs or read-option offenses. There also weren't 7-on-7 events that guys train year round for like today. The mistakes are mostly gone. Read option allows for essentially a 2nd or 3rd play on each down with a qb that can take the ball himself. This D was made to stop 5 skill players, not 6. It is out of date. That's why when we ask, who the **** runs this D? The answer is no one.

 

[bobbydigius]

I learned today two things: 1)that speed is STILL the number one factor in college ball. 2) turnovers decide bowl games

Oregon defense was shredded in some ways, but their speed eliminated big plays and helped generate tons of turnovers. Obviously offensively they were freakish.

TCU has speed EVERYWHERE and absolutely demolished the number 1 defense in the SEC on offense, and their defensive speed stifled a mediocre QB.

OSU has a more team speed than Bama, particularly in their front.

The lesson is the same as the one Jimmy Johnson taught us 30 years ago. It's the same lesson Gary Patterson lives by: recruit the fastest best athletes who are used to touching the football, and find a home for them. Oregon does it, TCU does it. It works unbelievably well in Miami, and you don't have to fight over and pay the blue chip recruits.

Funny you mention turnovers, because that right there is no joke and no game proved that more then Oregon vs FSU earlier. That was a close game until Cook's two fumbles, which by the way were both on first down earning plays of 10 and 15 yards. FSU was moving the ball just fine on OU, but those two fumbles completely took the life out of them and then the rout was on. People see that score and think the game was never in question, but that was not the case at all.

 

[DiegoCane]

Few things I learned today.

1. Like Lu said Jimmys and Joes are important but they need to be hungry and in the right system. Bama and FSU's D are both littered with 5* and both looked terrible. Both looked slow up front, Bama looked slow everywhere actually.

2. I'd rather roll the dice on an innovator at HC then the "safe" pick. Its tough to find the right guy but it only takes one. Chip Kelly came from New Hampshire, he changed college football. Give me someone who will make 1 side of the ball elite.

3. Thank you for a playoff. In the old BCS model, FSU would have played Bama for the title. I wonder how many undeserving champs there has been in the last 15 years.

4. Even great coaches make poor decision at the end of football games. That *-Bama last 3 minutes was elementary stuff.

5. Kiffin is still a clown. Yeldon and Henry average over 6 ypc and they only ran them 23 times.


Side note, give me a HC like Art Briles any day. After the game, he owned it, said he was embarrassed by what happened.

 

[fivecent]

To make the case for talent, I would look at the FSU v Oregon game. The game should have been a shoot out.FSU could march up and down the field on Oregon. The game was close until FSU's superior young offensive talent showed their youth with turnovers. Same players, a year later, FSU wins.

Oh please. Jameis Winston was not a "young" talent.

Jameis was fine in that game. Cook and Rudolf in particular F**ed up.

 

[weownfsu]

To make the case for talent, I would look at the FSU v Oregon game. The game should have been a shoot out.FSU could march up and down the field on Oregon. The game was close until FSU's superior young offensive talent showed their youth with turnovers. Same players, a year later, FSU wins.

Oh please. Jameis Winston was not a "young" talent.

Jameis was fine in that game. Cook and Rudolf in particular F**ed up.

Jameis turned the ball over twice, including one of the worst fumbles ever. That game wasn't about experience, it was about Oregon being a better team for a myriad of reasons.

 

[FullyERicht]

I learned today two things: 1)that speed is STILL the number one factor in college ball. 2) turnovers decide bowl games

Oregon defense was shredded in some ways, but their speed eliminated big plays and helped generate tons of turnovers. Obviously offensively they were freakish.

TCU has speed EVERYWHERE and absolutely demolished the number 1 defense in the SEC on offense, and their defensive speed stifled a mediocre QB.

OSU has a more team speed than Bama, particularly in their front.

The lesson is the same as the one Jimmy Johnson taught us 30 years ago. It's the same lesson Gary Patterson lives by: recruit the fastest best athletes who are used to touching the football, and find a home for them. Oregon does it, TCU does it. It works unbelievably well in Miami, and you don't have to fight over and pay the blue chip recruits.

Funny you mention turnovers, because that right there is no joke and no game proved that more then Oregon vs FSU earlier. That was a close game until Cook's two fumbles, which by the way were both on first down earning plays of 10 and 15 yards. FSU was moving the ball just fine on OU, but those two fumbles completely took the life out of them and then the rout was on. People see that score and think the game was never in question, but that was not the case at all.

The FSU Defense gave up the most points and most yards in the history of the Rose Bowl game. I think the fumbles were critical, but Oregon was scoring at will anyway.

 

[fivecent]

To make the case for talent, I would look at the FSU v Oregon game. The game should have been a shoot out.FSU could march up and down the field on Oregon. The game was close until FSU's superior young offensive talent showed their youth with turnovers. Same players, a year later, FSU wins.

Oh please. Jameis Winston was not a "young" talent.

Jameis was fine in that game. Cook and Rudolf in particular F**ed up.

Jameis turned the ball over twice, including one of the worst fumbles ever. That game wasn't about experience, it was about Oregon being a better team for a myriad of reasons.

I'll give you the fumble, but the other one was on Rudolf.

Jameis
C/ATT YDS AVG TD INT QBR
29/45 348 7.7 1 1 44.1

Qbr is low but the int is on Rudolf and that's a 64% competion rate. And we are getting off topic.

 

[weownfsu]

I learned today two things: 1)that speed is STILL the number one factor in college ball. 2) turnovers decide bowl games

Oregon defense was shredded in some ways, but their speed eliminated big plays and helped generate tons of turnovers. Obviously offensively they were freakish.

TCU has speed EVERYWHERE and absolutely demolished the number 1 defense in the SEC on offense, and their defensive speed stifled a mediocre QB.

OSU has a more team speed than Bama, particularly in their front.

The lesson is the same as the one Jimmy Johnson taught us 30 years ago. It's the same lesson Gary Patterson lives by: recruit the fastest best athletes who are used to touching the football, and find a home for them. Oregon does it, TCU does it. It works unbelievably well in Miami, and you don't have to fight over and pay the blue chip recruits.

Funny you mention turnovers, because that right there is no joke and no game proved that more then Oregon vs FSU earlier. That was a close game until Cook's two fumbles, which by the way were both on first down earning plays of 10 and 15 yards. FSU was moving the ball just fine on OU, but those two fumbles completely took the life out of them and then the rout was on. People see that score and think the game was never in question, but that was not the case at all.

The FSU Defense gave up the most points and most yards in the history of the Rose Bowl game. I think the fumbles were critical, but Oregon was scoring at will anyway.

Yes. FSU didn't lose this game because of a few boneheaded plays by inexperienced freshmen. They lost because they got whipped.

 

[bobbydigius]

I learned today two things: 1)that speed is STILL the number one factor in college ball. 2) turnovers decide bowl games

Oregon defense was shredded in some ways, but their speed eliminated big plays and helped generate tons of turnovers. Obviously offensively they were freakish.

TCU has speed EVERYWHERE and absolutely demolished the number 1 defense in the SEC on offense, and their defensive speed stifled a mediocre QB.

OSU has a more team speed than Bama, particularly in their front.

The lesson is the same as the one Jimmy Johnson taught us 30 years ago. It's the same lesson Gary Patterson lives by: recruit the fastest best athletes who are used to touching the football, and find a home for them. Oregon does it, TCU does it. It works unbelievably well in Miami, and you don't have to fight over and pay the blue chip recruits.

Funny you mention turnovers, because that right there is no joke and no game proved that more then Oregon vs FSU earlier. That was a close game until Cook's two fumbles, which by the way were both on first down earning plays of 10 and 15 yards. FSU was moving the ball just fine on OU, but those two fumbles completely took the life out of them and then the rout was on. People see that score and think the game was never in question, but that was not the case at all.

The FSU Defense gave up the most points and most yards in the history of the Rose Bowl game. I think the fumbles were critical, but Oregon was scoring at will anyway.

No doubt, but it looked like they were about to go back and forth for a very entertaining game not FSU fumbling to blow their rape whistle. As you said, turnovers they are important. Cook doesn't fumble twice and the headlines are way different, the game is close, Oregon still wins and then FSU whines they got screwed on on the O'Leary no call in the end zone.

 

[FullyERicht]

To make the case for talent, I would look at the FSU v Oregon game. The game should have been a shoot out.FSU could march up and down the field on Oregon. The game was close until FSU's superior young offensive talent showed their youth with turnovers. Same players, a year later, FSU wins.

Oh please. Jameis Winston was not a "young" talent.

Jameis was fine in that game. Cook and Rudolf in particular F**ed up.

Jameis turned the ball over twice, including one of the worst fumbles ever. That game wasn't about experience, it was about Oregon being a better team for a myriad of reasons.

I'll give you the fumble, but the other one was on Rudolf.

Jameis
C/ATT YDS AVG TD INT QBR
29/45 348 7.7 1 1 44.1

Qbr is low but the int is on Rudolf and that's a 64% competion rate. And we are getting off topic.

The INT was a wobbly duck that was behind Rudolf. What it again. He was terribly inaccurate all night, which is to be expected from the NCAA leader in INTs over 15 yards.

 

[FullyERicht]

I learned today two things: 1)that speed is STILL the number one factor in college ball. 2) turnovers decide bowl games

Oregon defense was shredded in some ways, but their speed eliminated big plays and helped generate tons of turnovers. Obviously offensively they were freakish.

TCU has speed EVERYWHERE and absolutely demolished the number 1 defense in the SEC on offense, and their defensive speed stifled a mediocre QB.

OSU has a more team speed than Bama, particularly in their front.

The lesson is the same as the one Jimmy Johnson taught us 30 years ago. It's the same lesson Gary Patterson lives by: recruit the fastest best athletes who are used to touching the football, and find a home for them. Oregon does it, TCU does it. It works unbelievably well in Miami, and you don't have to fight over and pay the blue chip recruits.

Funny you mention turnovers, because that right there is no joke and no game proved that more then Oregon vs FSU earlier. That was a close game until Cook's two fumbles, which by the way were both on first down earning plays of 10 and 15 yards. FSU was moving the ball just fine on OU, but those two fumbles completely took the life out of them and then the rout was on. People see that score and think the game was never in question, but that was not the case at all.

The FSU Defense gave up the most points and most yards in the history of the Rose Bowl game. I think the fumbles were critical, but Oregon was scoring at will anyway.

No doubt, but it looked like they were about to go back and forth for a very entertaining game not FSU fumbling to blow their rape whistle. As you said, turnovers they are important. Cook doesn't fumble twice and the headlines are way different, the game is close, Oregon still wins and then FSU whines they got screwed on on the O'Leary no call in the end zone.

But football doesn't work that way. No sport does. The game is played on the field. And what happened tonight was instead of having a "back n forth" battle, the ****** team turned the ball over a billion times. The ghosts of kickers past caused them to miss a field goal. Jameis totally botched the 4th down option play too. On top of that, the Heisman winner and his crazy offense were freakishly perfect executing.

And btw, FSU turns the ball over a ton, it's what they are as an overrated, mostly lucky team playing in a terrible conference with a JOKE schedule.

I know it may seem hard for me to be impartial, but there is no way in **** Jameis Winston is anything but a day 2 or 3 late round draft pick. He doesn't do anything particularly well. His footwork is terrible, he can't read a defense, he's inaccurate, he doesn't sell play action well, and he lumbers as a runner, and he turns the ball over a ton.

Good teams don't turn the ball over 4 times in a bowl game. Sorry.