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What are the visible differences between Shannon and Golden?

We have pillars in place right now that were not there during Randy's tenure.

We also attempt to deal with "exotics" differently.
 
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LuCane said:
I find this cringe-worthy to say, but as it relates to ON THE FIELD, I think Randy Shannon showed more flexibility and willingness to adjust than we have seen so far from the current staff.

- Shannon went from predominant Man under to transitioning to some underneath zones. The notable Sharpton pick-6 toward the back end of Shannon's tenure as a Head Coach is one example.

- Shannon went so far as to hire Whipple and Bill Young. Both are guys who strayed pretty far from what Shannon had showed were his core, on the field, philosophies. Young was a zone blitz guy. Whipple was a chuck it guy.

- Shannon also made swift decisions when something didn't work. The notable example is Tim Walton. He was immediately fired. Say whatever you will (and most of it is likely very accurate), but Tim Walton actually grew to become an NFL defensive Coordinator under a pretty legitimate Head Coach.


We're talking about on the field, here. I can't believe what I just wrote.
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Got to agree with LuCane on this stuff. The positive difference I have seen with Al is less delay of game and false starts. We look a little better organized. It seems that Al actually has a plan where with Randy we looks lost a lot. That said, Al's plan, while there, seems to suck.
 
ScubaCane said:
It is unimaginable that we are actually worse than we were under Shannon, personally I didn't think that was possible.
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I had them pretty neck and neck last year only because I gave Al bonus points for his PR work, something Shannon would have been a disaster for during The Cloud, but Golden has dominated the backstretch and is out in front comfortably.
 
If Shannon was willing to kiss *** the way Golden does, he would probably still be the coach
 
rokulika said:
True or false:

Golden is a worse gameday coach than Shannon.
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As far as gameday, I'm going with a push at this point.

Persistent failures of execution reflect flawed preparation more than actual gameday coaching ability in my opinion.
 
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LuCane said:
I find this cringe-worthy to say, but as it relates to ON THE FIELD, I think Randy Shannon showed more flexibility and willingness to adjust than we have seen so far from the current staff.

- Shannon went from predominant Man under to transitioning to some underneath zones. The notable Sharpton pick-6 toward the back end of Shannon's tenure as a Head Coach is one example.

- Shannon went so far as to hire Whipple and Bill Young. Both are guys who strayed pretty far from what Shannon had showed were his core, on the field, philosophies. Young was a zone blitz guy. Whipple was a chuck it guy.

- Shannon also made swift decisions when something didn't work. The notable example is Tim Walton. He was immediately fired. Say whatever you will (and most of it is likely very accurate), but Tim Walton actually grew to become an NFL defensive Coordinator under a pretty legitimate Head Coach.


We're talking about on the field, here. I can't believe what I just wrote.
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I agree with this. BUT, wasn't this one of the things Golden actually singled out as something he thought was a problem? The constant changing and turnover on the staff? Golden stated that he felt the musical chairs on the last staff hurt more than it helped, and that he wanted some continuity and stability on the staff. Now, that continuity of staff may suck, but I think it was more by design.

I do agree Shannon desperately tried to bring in help to get things right, but Im not sure it was the best situation for the program either. Some of these guys obviously did not have great chemistry with Shannon and weren't a great fit.

I also think Shannon had more talent to work with than Golden inherited. I DO think this team has talent NOW, but the last 2 years were sorely lacking.

I think both guys are mediocre in different ways. I do agree that Shannon seemed more flexible in bringing in different coaches to help fix things, but they never did. Remember the Coker did the same thing, and it didn't really seem to help anything.

I think there is SOME validity to Golden's philosophy on "continuity" and consistency of the staff, but it has to be QUALITY on the staff to begin with. I think that's where our real problem lies. We don't have very good assistants either, so continuity of what we have has done nothing for this team.
 
JHallCanes said:
If Shannon was willing to kiss *** the way Golden does, he would probably still be the coach
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No, he would not be the coach, but he would have probably lasted another year. Shannon had no personality and just did not present himself well. He was irritated by press conferences and the media and didn't like to glad hand and play politics with boosters, etc. Which gave him no real political capital when things got bad. Had he done that, he may have gotten another year, but he would not have lasted this long unless he won and won big.

I think it speaks volumes that he has not been hired even as a DC in all this time. For a guy who people thought was such a great DC, he cant do better than LB coach at Arky? For a former HC and DC? Obviously the coaching world does not share as high opinion of him as some Canes fans still do.
 
CANE4LIFE said:
LuCane said:
I find this cringe-worthy to say, but as it relates to ON THE FIELD, I think Randy Shannon showed more flexibility and willingness to adjust than we have seen so far from the current staff.

- Shannon went from predominant Man under to transitioning to some underneath zones. The notable Sharpton pick-6 toward the back end of Shannon's tenure as a Head Coach is one example.

- Shannon went so far as to hire Whipple and Bill Young. Both are guys who strayed pretty far from what Shannon had showed were his core, on the field, philosophies. Young was a zone blitz guy. Whipple was a chuck it guy.

- Shannon also made swift decisions when something didn't work. The notable example is Tim Walton. He was immediately fired. Say whatever you will (and most of it is likely very accurate), but Tim Walton actually grew to become an NFL defensive Coordinator under a pretty legitimate Head Coach.


We're talking about on the field, here. I can't believe what I just wrote.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. BUT, wasn't this one of the things Golden actually singled out as something he thought was a problem? The constant changing and turnover on the staff? Golden stated that he felt the musical chairs on the last staff hurt more than it helped, and that he wanted some continuity and stability on the staff. Now, that continuity of staff may suck, but I think it was more by design.

I do agree Shannon desperately tried to bring in help to get things right, but Im not sure it was the best situation for the program either. Some of these guys obviously did not have great chemistry with Shannon and weren't a great fit.

I think there is SOME validity to Golden's philosophy on "continuity" and consistency of the staff, but it has to be QUALITY on the staff to begin with. I think that's where our real problem lies. We don't have very good assistants either, so continuity of what we have has done nothing for this team.
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Continuity for the sake of continuity does not produce results. I have always said Golden has a plan and Shannon never seemed to have anything in place. He was reacting. In the same breath, so to speak, I've also always said that Golden's plan can fail or succeed, obviously. A plan doesn't mean you automatically succeed. It's just less sloppy.

He's pretty obviously not an analytics guy. When you start seeing evidence of failure... hate to use this word here, but you have to pivot. It doesn't mean change his entire philosophy (vision). It would have just meant changing the course to get there. To me, it seems like we're not seeing any changes on the field. Now that we do have more talent, I was prepared to see the adjustments. We haven't yet.
 
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Both play pretty uninspired. We have better talent now but do does our whole conference. Golden overall is better bc he knows how to run the off field programs and recruits much better.
 
Randy didn't have a training table to thump his chest about after getting his **** pushed in by inferior teams.
 
MizCane said:
Both play pretty uninspired. We have better talent now but do does our whole conference. Golden overall is better bc he knows how to run the off field programs and recruits much better.
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Off field success combined with constant on field failure only matters when you're talking about what the next coach will inherit. If you intend to keep a HC who constantly fails on the field, then I don't give a fck if he supposedly recruits better or is better with the media.
 
LuCane said:
CANE4LIFE said:
LuCane said:
I find this cringe-worthy to say, but as it relates to ON THE FIELD, I think Randy Shannon showed more flexibility and willingness to adjust than we have seen so far from the current staff.

- Shannon went from predominant Man under to transitioning to some underneath zones. The notable Sharpton pick-6 toward the back end of Shannon's tenure as a Head Coach is one example.

- Shannon went so far as to hire Whipple and Bill Young. Both are guys who strayed pretty far from what Shannon had showed were his core, on the field, philosophies. Young was a zone blitz guy. Whipple was a chuck it guy.

- Shannon also made swift decisions when something didn't work. The notable example is Tim Walton. He was immediately fired. Say whatever you will (and most of it is likely very accurate), but Tim Walton actually grew to become an NFL defensive Coordinator under a pretty legitimate Head Coach.


We're talking about on the field, here. I can't believe what I just wrote.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. BUT, wasn't this one of the things Golden actually singled out as something he thought was a problem? The constant changing and turnover on the staff? Golden stated that he felt the musical chairs on the last staff hurt more than it helped, and that he wanted some continuity and stability on the staff. Now, that continuity of staff may suck, but I think it was more by design.

I do agree Shannon desperately tried to bring in help to get things right, but Im not sure it was the best situation for the program either. Some of these guys obviously did not have great chemistry with Shannon and weren't a great fit.

I think there is SOME validity to Golden's philosophy on "continuity" and consistency of the staff, but it has to be QUALITY on the staff to begin with. I think that's where our real problem lies. We don't have very good assistants either, so continuity of what we have has done nothing for this team.
Click to expand...

Continuity for the sake of continuity does not produce results. I have always said Golden has a plan and Shannon never seemed to have anything in place. He was reacting. In the same breath, so to speak, I've also always said that Golden's plan can fail or succeed, obviously. A plan doesn't mean you automatically succeed. It's just less sloppy.

He's pretty obviously not an analytics guy. When you start seeing evidence of failure... hate to use this word here, but you have to pivot. It doesn't mean change his entire philosophy (vision). It would have just meant changing the course to get there. To me, it seems like we're not seeing any changes on the field. Now that we do have more talent, I was prepared to see the adjustments. We haven't yet.
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I completely agree on the first part. Continuity doesn't matter if what you are continuing is mediocrity and bad coaching. Im just saying, Shannon was always in reactive mode, whereas what people see as Golden being "stubborn" or "refusing to adjust" I think is more by design where he thinks if he just gives it enough time, it will all come together and finally execute.

Im not saying he's right. Im just saying that I think Golden INTENDED to do what he's doing.
 
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