Vertical routes between the hashes

[JHallCanes]

Think you hit on the main possibilities. And, I think a combination isn't unreasonable to imagine.

Some others:

(d) not enough gamebreaking or YAC at RB

(e) not enough speed on the field at WR (which is infuriating, because it's Oct and Ray Ray and Smith could at least see some more attempts)

(f) A reactive instead of proactive culture (to me, a couple games now feel like we were a step behind; someone on this thread even mentioned how it looked like we had our signs stolen)

All correct I think

Our offense was outperforming expectations given the talent and speed on the team imo

We shouldn’t have swung the pendulum THIS far back the other way but I expected a little bit of back to reality

I said the same thing though regarding point F. The defense is doing the opposite. Let’s just look inside the building for inspiration

 

[Unsider]

TVD has his limitations, no doubt, but Dawson does little to help him.

I swear this team gives me mental whiplashes…

 

[90scane]

View attachment 263721

Ball should have been out and shouldn’t haven’t been flat like he threw it. Safety isn’t even 10 yards of Smith. What is he waiting for?

JG getting mugged

 

[Dwinstitles]

I am not offensive genius, but IF it was me running the offense, I would spread teams out as wide as I could using 4 WR's Young, Restrepo, Smith, and George. I would have a RB lined up next to TVD in backfield. When I got a decent gain on first game, I would tempo tempo tempo.

I would incorporate RPO into a lot of the plays. I would angle the backs out of the backfield into passing plays as they can make a backer miss one on one.

Still dont understand why we dont also put Harrell in to run a go route at least twice per game. If he is covered it probably means that coverage is really stretched deep on that side, and you should have room for an underneath throw under the route.

Preach

 

[Mnhurricane]

I said before the year dawson tends to rely on his receivers creating separation alot rather than putting guys in conflict. When u got tank dell that **** works..Thats why i was so worried about us not getting a game changer at wr

100% Dawson is not Mr creative and it has shown quite a bit last few games. We rarely put players in conflict and seemingly don’t adjust pregame or in game to looks we are getting. Big red flag.

Shame because we really have the guys to stress the **** out of a defense talent wise if we would just be willing to do it. And not sure why we need so many 6+ man blocking sets not like TVD is getting pressured much it’s a complete waste of a player esp on obvious pass downs

 

[Mnhurricane]

1. For an OC to not scheme guys to run routes in the middle of the field is craziness

2. If we’re not doing it because TVD struggles with it, then that’s also ridiculous too

All I know is our TEs and RBs are basically non existent in the passing game and that’s unacceptable

sad thing is tvd is solid over the middle but I get your point. At the very least force defenders to occupy the space and strain the shape of their defense. Running plays out there where it takes fewer defenders than WRs to cover because of poor spacing. Totally unacceptable

 

[Ghandi]

While reviewing some of the UVA game (I was actually checking for how many defenders we were inviting into the box), I saw this image pop up again: everything outside the hashes.

View attachment 263696

In this case, 6 defenders covering 4 eligible receivers completely outside the hashes.

You can do the Math. It’s a restricted space. And, there is a world of space in the middle.

It’s something I also mentioned during the GT game - where we stayed outside the hashes a ton, until we successfully tried a couple vertical routes (I believe one to Young and one to Restrepo) *splitting their 2 deep Safeties.*

Thought we could discuss the different reasons we’re limiting the field more often than is beneficial and what, within the ‘infusion of Air Raid concepts,’ we can do differently. I know many will just say ‘it’s on TVD,’ but there has to be more to it.

Have at it…

When your guy can’t read coverages, the last place you want the ball to be thrown to is the deep or intermediate middle of the field.

Conversely, if you don’t push the middle of the field, then you get compressed and ****ed against the boundary.

Bad QB play is a brutal conundrum

 

[moneymanj]

Restrepo should be running a dig route. Either safety comes off the wheel to break on restrepo or he stay on top of Smiths wheel. A deep post route allows him to stay in that position and cover both routes without having to do much.

If Tyler can’t make that throw across the middle then idk what else can be said.

 

[jsy]

You don’t want a guy who can’t read cov throwing in the middle
He sees the field like jake Garcia last year
It’s crazy how they just throw completely oblivious to dropping defenders

 

[SamBruceMyBabyDaddy]

He may not be comfortable throwing in the middle of the field. He has thrown it right to robbers and hook zone droppers a few times already

If your solution to that as an OC is just to stop running routes over the middle of the field then you should resign yesterday

 

[TriStarCane]

If your solution to that as an OC is just to stop running routes over the middle of the field then you should resign yesterday

It’s not uncommon for OCs to cater the game plan to what the QB is comfortable with. Even in the pros. Coaches talk about it all the time.

 

[SamBruceMyBabyDaddy]

It’s not uncommon for OCs to cater the game plan to what the QB is comfortable with. Even in the pros. Coaches talk about it all the time.

Catering game plans to what QBs are comfortable with and purposefully not sending routes over the middle are two totally different things. Just because a route is ran over the middle doesn’t mean it has to be thrown over the middle…..See Colbie Young on the deep crosser for Dawsons one good call on the day.

 

[nvlahos]

It’s also becoming clear that TVD is best at throwing post and go routes, but he struggles with the rest

This is what he had so much success doing with Rambo two years ago, before anyone had film on him

Now there’s plenty of film and defenses have figured him out.

Play zone and play back to force TVD to make mistakes. He will still force it deep on a post or go route even if it’s not open.

It also takes him too long to make it to the check downs underneath.

All of this is a big problem, combined with his injuries and fading mentality

 

[Cane6]

While reviewing some of the UVA game (I was actually checking for how many defenders we were inviting into the box), I saw this image pop up again: everything outside the hashes.

View attachment 263696

In this case, 6 defenders covering 4 eligible receivers completely outside the hashes.

You can do the Math. It’s a restricted space. And, there is a world of space in the middle.

It’s something I also mentioned during the GT game - where we stayed outside the hashes a ton, until we successfully tried a couple vertical routes (I believe one to Young and one to Restrepo) *splitting their 2 deep Safeties.*

Thought we could discuss the different reasons we’re limiting the field more often than is beneficial and what, within the ‘infusion of Air Raid concepts,’ we can do differently. I know many will just say ‘it’s on TVD,’ but there has to be more to it.

Have at it…

Outside of CIS podcast, and OBB I like fat Manny when he brings on Carlos Ledo.

This pod did a great job detailing how poorly Dawson is adapting to what defenses are giving us/TVD, and what should be implemented going forward

What Dawson did against Texas AM seems like ages ago, and more of an outlier. Definitely disappointed with Dawson as an OC

 

[GOCANES05]

Outside of CIS podcast, and OBB I like fat Manny when he brings on Carlos Ledo.

This pod did a great job detailing how poorly Dawson is adapting to what defenses are giving us/TVD, and what should be implemented going forward

What Dawson did against Texas AM seems like ages ago, and more of an outlier. Definitely disappointed with Dawson as an OC

OC is very limited with TVD , has to be simple say hike and throw to primary no matter what or turn and hand off , that is it period.

I don’t think TVD is allowed to check off unless it’s the second play called in huddle and there to the same player..

I can only imagine the panic in TVD with rotating and camouflage zone coverage on the fly , that’s also the problem no matter what you see he runs it like Ron Burgundy reads whatever the teleprompter says period.

Dawson knows he ain’t right and has to game plan around limitations now our opponents know get TVD thinking and INT and 3 and out start coming.


GOCANES

 

[Canezum5]

At the top of the screen, they ran some version of what looked like a switch concept. Brashard went down the left sideline and it resulted in an easy INT.

I believe Restrepo was going to run a deep post from the right hash that would break in about 20 yards downfield. I’d have to check again. Either way, he’s probably not who I’d have challenging that Safety with that route, but that’s another topic.

Idk. IF TvD holds that instead of trying to drop it in between the safety and corner. He now had a full stride Smith against a safety one on one. I'd take that match up any day. Tyler had time. All he needed was patience.

 

[Canezum5]

Dc’s know most of the routes we run in the middle of the field are mostly digs / overs. As Tom Brady said “ the middle of the field is impossible to guard now. That’s why NE lived between the hashes. Db’s can’t intimidate you anymore so the middle of the field is **** near a layup. Then mix in the rpo. The rb’s and te’s are being used as poorly as I’ve ever seen. It’s atrocious. Rb’s stay in the flats. Te’s? I don‘t even know with that position has become here.

When you have great touch, accuracy, and mechanics(unless your Mahomes) then this is true.

Yet this is not a common trait amongst QBs collegiate or NFL. Throwing over the middle is resulting in a lot of INTs. Any passes too far up, too far down, too far left, or too far right is an INT it seems.

You gotta be pinpoint accurate and your receivers absolutely have to catch the ball. A lot of QBs can't do what Brady does with that level of consistency.

 

[Canezum5]

Route replacement was lacking vs UVA. If Restrepo is IR and going to change routes, he has to tell his OR to occupy the other space (hash, number, post), then tell the Q. Hand signal stuff.

Not sure where the fin and pop RPO's have gone. Glance isn't even there much. Relegated to bubble and smoke. But when teams plan to drop 7-8 because Van Dyke won't/can't run, that's what you get.

McCormick is so slow in space teams just leave him uncovered and then rally to him. Is he 28 or 48?

Bro thank you. It seems I'm the only one bringing up how he is useless to this offense. It's annoying af.

I'm sorry he's a waste of space out there idgaf about his run blocking if we ain't in the redzone

 

[gacaneaddict]

Go 4 Wide switching out Smith for Old Man McCormick and use more tempo. Also use Brashard on orbit motion more, just the threat of him on the end around pulls defenders eyes some.

I am also not against Using Jacurri Brown in some packages. His ability to run, and break tackles, along with the read option element will put defenders in more of a bind, where now they don't worry about TVD running at all. You can even bring him in, go 5 wide, drop back and then let him take off. A designed run, that looks like a pass. Anything to disrupt what a defense does.

 

[Cribby]

Catering game plans to what QBs are comfortable with and purposefully not sending routes over the middle are two totally different things. Just because a route is ran over the middle doesn’t mean it has to be thrown over the middle…..See Colbie Young on the deep crosser for Dawsons one good call on the day.

No way dc’s would notice that if true ? Lmao