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Urban Meyer on Miami Job

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Ethnicsands said:
You say I am off topic, because “This is a topic about Florida players and their ability to sustain a premier program. Read the OP.” Except your premise is wrong. This is a thread about what Urban Meyer said. I encourage you to read the OP.
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Except Meyer, as quoted, didn’t say anything about our budget, salaries or any of the other reasons Miami and FSU aren’t premier jobs. If he did, this would be a short thread. Nobody would disagree.

Instead, his comment focused on personnel. This is curious, as Florida players are the main reason three Florida schools with eight coaches have won 11 championships in the cable era.

That comment - about Florida players being a hindrance instead of an advantage - is what everyone is responding to, with facts.

What happens, over and over, is that you hear someone said something allegedly disparaging of FL HS talent, and you (mis)react emotionally, like a mother who heard her son wasn’t smart and good looking.
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I rush to debates about Florida talent because I like having numbers on my side. It makes things easier.

Because you keep interpreting every mention of an issue with our program as an argument that it’s impossible to win here. Despite no one saying that.
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You must have missed all the posts talking about how “Miami is dead” and “Miami will never be great in the new era.” There is a large contingent of people who have resigned to our future as a second-rate program.

My expectations remain higher. And the numbers I keep posting are the reason why.
 
Coach Macho said:
It's a result of BOTH!
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Exactly. It's pretty dumb to argue otherwise.

When folks directly contradict a guy like Jimmy and say we were lucky to have him vs. the Miami stop being the very thing that catapulted his career, they conveniently forget his (8-4) record upon leaving Okie State. He never came remotely close to accomplishing the things he did at Miami while at Okie State. Did he suddenly become a "great" talent evaluator at Miami when he inherited Howard's gumbo? Of course not.

Access to the brand and the backyard, in addition to his skill set, gave him the opportunity to launch his career.

Miami "is a great job" doesn't = you can hire a bum and expect phenomenal success. Bama hired a bum in Shula and what happened? What about USC before Pete? That's silly *****. The talent still has to be evaluated, developed, and put in a position to succeed. It's always been both.

For all the talent Urban says can be cultured better somewhere else, or comes in more prepared, which partially equates to being a better opportunity than Miami, we can point to a 15-30 year LULL in championships at that same school. OSU. Bama. Georgia. Ect. Why? Because it's always been BOTH.

We have the best back yard in the game - in a state that has the most talent in the League. It's a great job. We just need the right coach.
 
allbouttheu2001 said:
Because some of the kids pick schools that know how to develop them
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Partly cuz Florida has a large population.

Florida is one of the top football factory states in the country. No one argues that. What some of us are arguing is that Florida isn’t head and shoulders above states like Georgia, Texas, etc.

I’m not sure what the stats are this year, but usually states like Bama, GA, and LA produce as many or more NFL players per capita.
 
mavericksouth said:
Without picking sides, I'm in agreement with this. Look, Urban clearly has an agenda by burying Miami, he did it for years at Florida. In one breath, he praises USC for being close in proximity to talent, yet, in the next breath, he hates on Miami despite it having a similar recruiting hotbead of talent and the dynamics of the schools being very similar.

That said, I think the gist of his argument is, if you think you can go to a school like Miami, FSU, or Florida and not identity, recruit, and develop the right kids, you will struggle like Shannon, Golden, later years of Coker, and now Manny has. I think people saw what Erickson did and underestimated that he was actually a **** good xs and os coach and could identify talent. Butch was fabulous at identifying talent and developing that talent.

These modern coaches that UM has hired, overestimated their skill set and underestimated how much work it actually takes to win a championship at Miami. This is why I know Manny will fail eventually because he clearly has not put in the work necessary to be successful. Too much bravado, chains, yachts, and not enough work.
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In fairness, he didn’t even hate on Miami. He was making a passing comment trying to defend why USC is a great job and the FL schools are glamous but not quite as great. He focused on recruiting as an aspect re USC but the jobs are about more than just recruitting. There are plenty of other reasons why the FL jobs could be considered next level. Just observing that there are 3 programs that have to compete with each other in-state is a reason in and of itself. But his comments weren’t about FL, he just touched on that briefly. He was really talking USC. The reality is, the evidence proves the FL jobs are not at the elite level these days. Just look at who coaches at them. Gone are the days of Miami coaches going to the NFL. Jimbo left FSU for A&M. Mullen didn’t turn down an elite job for FL. You could question whether USC is a great job these days, but the five programs Urban mentioned are easily 5 of the top 7 jobs in CFB.
 
DMoney said:
Except Meyer, as quoted, didn’t say anything about our budget, salaries or any of the other reasons Miami and FSU aren’t premier jobs. If he did, this would be a short thread. Nobody would disagree.

Instead, his comment focused on personnel. This is curious, as Florida players are the main reason three Florida schools with eight coaches have won 11 championships in the cable era.

That comment - about Florida players being a hindrance instead of an advantage - is what everyone is responding to, with facts.



I rush to debates about Florida talent because I like having numbers on my side. It makes things easier.



You must have missed all the posts talking about how “Miami is dead” and “Miami will never be great in the new era.” There is a large contingent of people who have resigned to our future as a second-rate program.

My expectations remain higher. And the numbers I keep posting are the reason why.
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If you are just responding to web site whoevers, okay. Meyer didn’t say what you seem to think. He wasn’t even there to talk FL programs but rather USC. He made one comment in passing about preparation, he didn’t say it meant you couldn’t win big in florida. We both know there are a LOT of reasons why Alabama and Ohio State are better jobs today than Miami. Urban was just trying to contend USC is still an elite job. We may disagree, but no one thinks Miami is that elite a job.

Can you win at Miami? If you’re a great coach and evaluator, sure.

If you and I dissgree in substance (as opposed to talking by each other), it’s around emphasis. I think the record shows only really good coaches win at Miami. And even then maintaining it is hard. I am skeptical a ‘good’ coach wins here. Richt was a good coach. Not great. He quit.

I think evals are more important than you do, and that we were good because of Butch and Jimmy’s evals, and they were the two best ever at it, bar none.

I think the many pitfalls falls of UM Make it a hard job, and that they can chew up many coaches.

I disagree that our problem is we lacked clever offense. That is a symptom, not a disease. We lacked any leadership, lacked culture, lacked identity, lacked roster balance, lacked trench strength. We can win with more than one style. We cannot win with incompetence everywhere. I agree with you on what I’d orient towards schematically, but it ain’t about th scheme, imo. It’s about the leader. If you think scheme is enough, we disagree.

As far as draft data goes, you need to understand the data analysis flaw in your mentioning it. Fla is a big pool of kids. It should index higher than alabama in the draft. But we can only take so many kids a year. Per capita is a better measure of average talent, and in a big pool, eval are even more critical. Fla also has three major programs and 5 surrounding major programs that hammer it, so recuiting it is hard even if the pool is deep. You cite the draft numbers as if they prove something relative to running the programs there. But it’s not that simple. Many of those fla kids go out of state, some get overlooked. We must evaluate better or the topic is irrelevant.
 
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Artist Formerly Known As said:
Partly cuz Florida has a large population.

Florida is one of the top football factory states in the country. No one argues that. What some of us are arguing is that Florida isn’t head and shoulders above states like Georgia, Texas, etc.

I’m not sure what the stats are this year, but usually states like Bama, GA, and LA produce as many or more NFL players per capita.
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Florida has a median age of 41.6
Georgia’s is 37.8
Texas’ is 32.4
Alabama is 38.6
Louisiana’s is 36.2.

You have to consider the constant influx of retirees in Florida when trying to draw conclusions on per capita numbers.
 
gogeta4 said:
lmao some of yall need to stop posting...Your on a cane board and really dont know why Bobby Bowden didnt have that many rings???.
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I don’t care what board it is. I’m not a homer like y’all. I love the game of football as much as I love the canes. Y’all just can’t see past your own homerism. If it isn’t bashing everything else it’ll never make sense to you bums.
 
I respect Urban Meyer. He's a **** of a coach and knows football better than maybe a handful of people.

But he doesn't like Miami. I can't recall him ever having a nice thing to say about us. For that, he can kiss my bony white ***.
 
Coach Macho said:
Lesser teams my ***. When Florida teams travel they generally play power houses.

Who do you think covers the travel expenses? These big-time out of state programs. They pay us to travel up there and play them.

I've played out of state 3 times in the two seasons that I've been at Deerfield.

*Beat 11-time Georgia state champion Buford High, who had a RB going to Texas, 3 OL going to SEC schools, one of the top QB's in the country and a $200,000 coaching staff.

*Lost to St. John's Prep, a powerhouse program from Maryland with D1 kids all over their roster.

*Beat back-to-back Louisiana state champion Zachary High 53-0.

What exactly are you talking about?
Florida teams don't travel to play mediocre out-of-state programs. Mediocre programs can't afford to cover our travel expenses.
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I’m a deerfield buck alum and former football playER and coach in the early part of the 2000’s.

I know the history and all the greats that have been thru those halls. From Crudup, Tramaine Hall, Kerry Sutton, Justin Hawkins, Jimmy overstreet,Nick Ricks, Mcdougle family, Gowdy family, Steve ***in,
Having money doesn’t equate to having talent. We’ve been the best program in broward behind St. thomas for the past 15-20 years. Those teams do NOT have more talent than us ... when Art Taylor was at Deerfield w Shoelace and We lost to mine with Aldarious, Marcus Forston amd Jacory etc.. they were up and in position for an upset due to coaching!!!! We outschemed them, they out talented us from a total roster standpoint.
Those teams Deerfield have played do NOT have more talent than us.. they have better COACHING !!!!! I don’t give a **** what they do in their state.. they wouldn’t run tables against S. Fla talent year in and out facing these type of athletes weekly. De la sale at one point won 150+ straight .. They’d have never done that in Florida.

learn the game son.
 
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Coach Macho said:
Pffft. Lmao
That's fvckin' bull****.
How many out-of-state coaches do you talk to?

Because the ones I talk to think we have the best players in the world.
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dummy you’re proving Urban point. We have plenty talent just horrid coaches like you who spend your time on message boards rather than at a coaching clinic or perfecting your craft.

the TALENT at Deerfield outweighs your coaching flaws I can tell you that NOW as a buck alum and someone who still frequents games. That staff is trash and gets outcoached in every big game.

Coaches and staffs like Perry Scnieder and Joe Redond would run laps around this current staff at Deerfield. **** outta here.

y’all beat up on Douglas, Coral Sorings, Teravella every year but the moment you run into a squad w coaching out of the district you get laps ran around you.
 
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Ethnicsands said:
If you are just responding to web site whoevers, okay. Meyer didn’t say what you seem to think. He wasn’t even there to talk FL programs but rather USC. He made one comment in passing about preparation, he didn’t say it meant you couldn’t win big in florida. We both know there are a LOT of reasons why Alabama and Ohio State are better jobs today than Miami. Urban was just trying to contend USC is still an elite job. We may disagree, but no one thinks Miami is that elite a job.

Can you win at Miami? If you’re a great coach and evaluator, sure.

If you and I dissgree in substance (as opposed to talking by each other), it’s around emphasis. I think the record shows only really good coaches win at Miami. And even then maintaining it is hard. I am skeptical a ‘good’ coach wins here. Richt was a good coach. Not great. He quit.

I think evals are more important than you do, and that we were good because of Butch and Jimmy’s evals, and they were the two best ever at it, bar none.

I think the many pitfalls falls of UM Make it a hard job, and that they can chew up many coaches.

I disagree that our problem is we lacked clever offense. That is a symptom, not a disease. We lacked any leadership, lacked culture, lacked identity, lacked roster balance, lacked trench strength. We can win with more than one style. We cannot win with incompetence everywhere. I agree with you on what I’d orient towards schematically, but it ain’t about th scheme, imo. It’s about the leader. If you think scheme is enough, we disagree.

As far as draft data goes, you need to understand the data analysis flaw in your mentioning it. Fla is a big pool of kids. It should index higher than alabama in the draft. But we can only take so many kids a year. Per capita is a better measure of average talent, and in a big pool, eval are even more critical. Fla also has three major programs and 5 surrounding major programs that hammer it, so recuiting it is hard even if the pool is deep. You cite the draft numbers as if they prove something relative to running the programs there. But it’s not that simple. Many of those fla kids go out of state, some get overlooked. We must evaluate better or the topic is irrelevant.
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they’re all over the place because they want to prove a point so bad. Going allllll off topic.

Texas and Georgia have nothing had horrible collegiate head coaches in general. Both teams are similar to Miami in some aspect.. rely heavily off their local talent thinking it can win based solely off the caliber of players because they’re a “football state”.

I can’t name one UT or UGA coached that’s revered and name rings bells in coaching conversations.. of course outside of Mack and Mark. Who both were barely above average coaches during their tenures. Elite coaches would’ve destroyedCFB with their talent.

Urban made a point about their readiness and they’re trying to use CFB championships as the staple to their argument.. this is EXACTLY why Miami is in the predicament we’re in now. Cause COACHING MATTERS at all levels. You can have all the talent you want butif you can’t develop it to the next level it’ll never amount to anything.
 
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Coach Macho said:
THE MOST TALENTED FOOTBALL PLAYERS IN THE WORLD PLAY IN THE NFL.

THE STATE OF FLORIDA HAS THE MOST PLAYERS IN THE NFL.



THE END.

The fvck are you MF'ers talking about?!
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How many Florida HS coaches migrated to the NFL? Cause that’s what Urban Meyer was talking about. The coaches in Florida suck @ development of players.
 
HOMETOWNS WITH MOST NFL PLAYERS


HometownNFL PlayersHometownNFL Players
Miami27Cleveland12
Houston21Birmingham, AL11
Fort Lauderdale, FL14Jacksonville, FL11
New Orleans14Atlanta10
Tampa, FL13Louisville, KY10
Cincinnati12Philadelphia10


Atlanta city limit population is MUCH higher than Miami, Jax and Tampa.
Its not all about population count with Florida.
 
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Artist Formerly Known As said:
Partly cuz Florida has a large population.

Florida is one of the top football factory states in the country. No one argues that. What some of us are arguing is that Florida isn’t head and shoulders above states like Georgia, Texas, etc.

I’m not sure what the stats are this year, but usually states like Bama, GA, and LA produce as many or more NFL players per capita.
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Florida is #1 in total numbers
Florida is #5 per capita (states)

That's QUALITY and QUANTITY. So its not just because of the high population.
TX and CA have higher populations than FL but fewer numbers and a worst per capita rate.
​

StatePopulation *NFL PlayersNFL Players Per Capita
District of Columbia
601,723​
11​
​
1 NFL player per 54,702 people
Louisiana
4,533,372​
59​
​
1 NFL player per 76,837 people
Georgia
9,687,653​
123​
​
1 NFL player per 78,761 people
Alabama
4,779,736​
60​
​
1 NFL player per 79,662 people
Mississippi
2,967,297​
34​
​
1 NFL player per 87,273 people
Florida
18,801,310​
211​
​
1 NFL player per 89,106 people
South Carolina
4,625,364​
43​
​
1 NFL player per 107,567 people
Delaware
897,934​
8​
​
1 NFL player per 112,242 people
Hawaii
1,360,301​
10​
​
1 NFL player per 136,030 people
Texas
25,145,561​
175​
1 NFL player per 143,689 people
Ohio
11,536,504​
76​
1 NFL player per 151,796 people
​
 
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TruCane81 said:
Florida has a median age of 41.6
Georgia’s is 37.8
Texas’ is 32.4
Alabama is 38.6
Louisiana’s is 36.2.

You have to consider the constant influx of retirees in Florida when trying to draw conclusions on per capita numbers.
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In addition to Florida having a much higher percentage of elderly residents, you have to factor in Georgia also has a much higher percentage of blacks (31%) than Florida (15%) now.
 
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