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Two directions

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90scane said:
100% agree. I actually think the kids played good enough to keep Miami respected. Clemson is the best team in the country and Miami made a few too many mistakes. Keep cleaning up the play, keep landing elite kids, and keep beating the rest of the ACC. Miami will get Clemsons number at some point if Miami handles the rest of its business. Three key games: Pitt after the lose, NC State after a bye week, and UNC as that is the trip to the championship game.
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Would think VT is gonna be tough at vt as they have been a tough team with huge amounts of players missing with covid that will probably be cleaned up when we play them. I dont think they have played a game yet with full roster but have been productive..
 
Cribby said:
I’ll say this , we’ll know for sure where manny stands and if things are different by how we finish. We run the table ( we should ) I’ll believe in his bs. We pull a “ Miami “ I’ll know what I’m already thinking.
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You know what’s coming...
 
Well yeah. A full season tells you more than 4 games bro lol.

The defense is going to get scored on all year. We have in all 3 games except FSU. So the offense will need to find life as we get into the meat of the schedule here.

Im of the belief that we score enough points in the test of the games to beat everyone.

VT and UNC are going to be great games.

Miami should beat everyone else.
 
DMoney said:
LSU- 33, Miami- 17

This game wasn't as close as the score. Miami was outclassed and outcoached. The national TV audience lost any respect it had gained for Miami.

After this loss, Miami went 13-12 over the next two seasons.

West Virginia- 70, Clemson- 33

This was the last game of Dabo's first good season. Clemson was embarrassed on national TV. They have gone 105-12 since.

It was not a straight shot. In 2013, Clemson lost 51-14 to FSU and looked miles away from the championship level. But they kept building. Last year, they beat FSU 45-14.

Miami's direction after this loss will depend on Manny. There was a talent gap on Saturday, but there was an even larger gap in preparation and discipline. The world is expecting Miami to return to form and lose to less-talented ACC teams. That has been the story for the last 15 years. The next six opponents are Pittsburgh, UVA, NC State, Virginia Tech, Georgia Tech and Wake Forest. We will know after that stretch.

Some will say, like they always do, that Miami can never come back. They usually point to a lack of resources to hire assistant coaches and attract recruits. But Miami has signed big-money coordinators the last two years and landed elite talents like Chaney, Knighton, James Williams and Leonard Taylor. You can't do that if you're a dead program.

Miami failed the first test. They didn't jump from worst to first. But the next test is more important and will be much more telling.
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the point is, Miami isn't a "dead program." It's an average one. stuck in a permanent state of being average. don't see that changing in the next 10-15 years, if ever, given the current structure of college football.

i was at the game last night, and returned home this morning.

watched the game with an NFL executive who was there to scout the game. will be posting my thoughts and all of his (very interesting and insightful) comments later today or tomorrow.
 
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RedSquare said:
the point is, Miami isn't a "dead program." It's an average one. stuck in a permanent state of being average. don't see that changing in the next 10-15 years, if ever, given the current structure of college football.
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The same could be said about Clemson for three decades.

Here is an example of a small tweak that has nothing to do with structure: in 2018, we signed two All-American WRs in Mark Pope and Brian Hightower. Many on the board were asking us to take TuTu Atwell and Elijah Moore.

If we signed those two, and dropped Ezzard and Wiggins, would Venables have the same lack of respect for our deep passing game?
 
skyman said:
Do you think Manny should bring in a DC to teach a different fresh perspective on defense that can prepare and recruit LBs?
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I don't think so. It's Manny's defense. LB recruiting has sucked since his days at DC. It's a weird blind spot that we've been complaining about for a while.

On the whole, this has been a good defense. We live in an era where Alabama and LSU are in shootouts. If you can't move the ball against Trevor Lawrence's team, they will score.

I'm more worried about Manny as a head coach than Manny as a defensive mind.
 
DMoney said:
The same could be said about Clemson for three decades.

Here is an example of a small tweak that has nothing to do with structure: in 2018, we signed two All-American WRs in Mark Pope and Brian Hightower. Many on the board were asking us to take TuTu Atwell and Elijah Moore.

If we signed those two, and dropped Ezzard and Wiggins, would Venables have the same lack of respect for our deep passing game?
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sure it would be different. but if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.

and while I 100% agree with you that having pope and hightower on the team was (and is) a waste of oxygen compared to what moore and atwell could presently contribute, those two guys would not have made a difference last night. the problems are way deeper
 
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At the very least, 50% of that talent gap between us and Clemson is attributable DIRECTLY to Manny. He's been here long enough that every single player on that defense is stapled to his resume.

His recruiting has been bad. Period. There is sample size to draw from. The depth charts at LB and CB are so far away from Miami standards that it's not even funny. The two best players on the defense were also NOT recruited by Miami but rather transferred in.

The portal is a SUPPLEMENT. Recruiting is the BACKBONE of a program.
 
Just a note on the calendar - I think the ACC championship has been moved to 12/19 - ND and a couple of other teams are going to have to use 12/12 to finish the season due to COVID

12/20 is Selection Sunday for the CFP
 
I was sitting in the First row of the upper deck in the end zone at the ACCCG. Jeff Thomas was running directly at me when Malik underthrew him.

I got that same pit in my stomach when Roche made the pick but got flagged for the offsides. I knew it was over. You need the ball to bounce your way every time when you’re a 2 TD road dog (and it was an inflated line, and shoulda been closer to the 28 I said it would be prior to the season starting).

3-0 with Lashlee and King got everyone’s expectations a little too high. We all saw the lack of talent and depth before last night. Last night, in hindsight, isn’t all that shocking.

The reason I have confidence going forward for this season is King. No one else we play even approaches Clemsons talent. I posted in another thread that I watched both Pitt games and their defense is overrated. We should roll them and regain some steam.

So I think this season will still be a success. Maybe even run the table. My concerns based on last nights performance are more geared towards next year and beyond, when we don’t have king to bail us out.

It was gonna be tough to slow them down defensively, considering the talent gap. But the offensive gameplan was concerning. Especially the scripted part, which they had 2 weeks to prepare.

I like Lashlee a lot, but it’s clear that we need an influx of talent. This roster, without King, is a 6 win team.
 
Jedi Master Cane said:
At the very least, 50% of that talent gap between us and Clemson is attributable DIRECTLY to Manny. He's been here long enough that every single player on that defense is stapled to his resume.
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There is a talent gap because Clemson has been a Top 5 team on the field for the past five years.

Our recruiting has exceeded our on-field performance over the same time span. The solution is to win the games you're supposed to and then recruit the players (like James Williams and Leonard Taylor) who are good enough to beat Clemson.
 
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scrantoncane said:
I was sitting in the First row of the upper deck in the end zone at the ACCCG. Jeff Thomas was running directly at me when Malik underthrew him.

I got that same pit in my stomach when Roche made the pick but got flagged for the offsides. I knew it was over. You need the ball to bounce your way every time when you’re a 2 TD road dog (and it was an inflated line, and shoulda been closer to the 28 I said it would be prior to the season starting).

3-0 with Lashlee and King got everyone’s expectations a little too high. We all saw the lack of talent and depth before last night. Last night, in hindsight, isn’t all that shocking.

The reason I have confidence going forward for this season is King. No one else we play even approaches Clemsons talent. I posted in another thread that I watched both Pitt games and their defense is overrated. We should roll them and regain some steam.

So I think this season will still be a success. Maybe even run the table. My concerns based on last nights performance are more geared towards next year and beyond, when we don’t have king to bail us out.

It was gonna be tough to slow them down defensively, considering the talent gap. But the offensive gameplan was concerning. Especially the scripted part, which they had 2 weeks to prepare.

I like Lashlee a lot, but it’s clear that we need an influx of talent. This roster, without King, is a 6 win team.
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If TVD is not the guy Manny is toast.
 
DMoney said:
There is a talent gap because Clemson has been a Top 5 team on the field for the past five years.

Our recruiting has exceeded our on-field performance over the same time span. The solution is to win the games you're supposed to and then recruit the players (like James Williams and Leonard Taylor) who are good enough to beat Clemson.
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And that's directly tied to winning, at the very least winning the games you are SUPPOSE to win.

Last night served to remind everyone what the cumulative effect is of consistently losing to the Virginia's, Duke's, and FIU's of the world....and how it relates to recruiting. It leads to all those juicy developmental 3 stars instead of the filet mignon available every cycle.

You really want to talk about "two directions?". Here are the only two directions that matter in terms of coaching and running a successful program.

- You either punch above your weight ON the field, this in turn leads to success in recruiting based on perception.
- Or you punch above your weight in recruiting before the results come, and that in turn spurs winning on a consistent basis.

Manny and his predecessors have done neither. No one with half a brain expected us to win last night....but we sure as **** expected a better showing than what we got. Virginia looked better against the same Clemson team.
 
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DMoney said:
I don't think so. It's Manny's defense. LB recruiting has sucked since his days at DC. It's a weird blind spot that we've been complaining about for a while.

On the whole, this has been a good defense. We live in an era where Alabama and LSU are in shootouts. If you can't move the ball against Trevor Lawrence's team, they will score.

I'm more worried about Manny as a head coach than Manny as a defensive mind.
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The defense is gimmicky and works on enough teams to pile up stats to look good but more times than not when we play good teams or bowl game type teams we seem outclassed.. I never like a room of yes men or guys who if they were let go cant get a comparable level job elsewhere.. Like who is gonna hire Rumph if he cant work here? Even our last DB coach has more ability to find another job..
 
Chaney and Knighton are not elite (Travis Etienne and Dalvin Cook are elite) and we still haven't seen the other two mentioned.

We haven’t recruited at the necessary level until this point despite some improvement; we can’t sign multiple quality cycles in one cycle; and we don’t have an answer at QB after King jumps ship. We are a period of years away before we can even consider competing.

We are caught up in the same continuum. We always hear something like: “We need to win to recruit and it takes years to develop relationships in recruiting.” Then we win a few games before completely collapsing, ending the year disgraced with a bunch of early departures from dudes who will go undrafted.

Then we go into the next year with MASSIVE holes in our roster resulting from below average to poor recruiting and the inability to retain our upperclassmen. We keep talking about keeping our guys home, but it never markedly improves. We get a couple guys like we always do and then we claim it’s a sign of a change.

Nothing has changed. We have a good QB playing in a system that works for him and we have a D1 caliber kicker. Thats it. King is one and done and we are giving second team reps to Perry. The future is not bright and the present is not competitive.

The worst part about last night was how soft we looked aside from a few guys on defense and the QB.

Call me a mope or whatever, but people who know me, know that I'm as positive as they come.

I'm not hopeful.
 
Jedi Master Cane said:
And that's directly tied to winning, at the very least winning the games you are SUPPOSE to win.

Last night served to remind everyone what the cumulative effect is of consistently losing to the Virginia's, Duke's, and FIU's of the world....and how it relates to recruiting. It leads to all those juicy developmental 3 stars instead of the filet mignon available every cycle.

You really want to talk about "two directions?". Here are the only two directions that matter in terms of coaching and running a successful program.

- You either punch above your weight ON the field, this in turn leads to success in recruiting based on perception.
- Or you punch above your weight in recruiting before the results come, and that in turn spurs winning on a consistent basis.

Manny and his predecessors have done neither. No one with half a brain expected us to win last night....but we sure as **** expected a better showing than what we got. Virginia looked better against the same Clemson team.
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The hype around UM coming into the Clemson game didn’t do us any favors. Their only losses the past few years have been when teams like Cuse caught them snoozing. No. 7 Miami who the whole country has watched for 3 weeks, Gameday in town, prime time ABC... we got their full attention, and it showed.

But your overall point I most certainly agree with. There is enough data by now to see that this defensive staff doesn’t coach up players. That means we gotta recruit better.
 
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