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Thoughts

AUcane said:
Can you do the same analysis for the following teams?

Mich State
Stanford
Oregon
Oklahoma
aTm
Duke
etc

Do we need to start regularly landing top 10 classes to beat the big boys? Probably. Do we need top 15 classes to not get throttled by the Dukes and Louisvilles of the world?
Click to expand...

Agree to a point, but we are talking nc winners.
 
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bbcane said:
AUcane said:
Can you do the same analysis for the following teams?

Mich State
Stanford
Oregon
Oklahoma
aTm
Duke
etc

Do we need to start regularly landing top 10 classes to beat the big boys? Probably. Do we need top 15 classes to not get throttled by the Dukes and Louisvilles of the world?
Click to expand...

Agree to a point, but we are talking nc winners.
Click to expand...

I hear you. What were our recruiting rankins circa 97-01?
 
Tito Benach said:
itsacanething said:
this board has a major case of FSU envy right now.
Click to expand...

Not envious whatsoever, but when I have people tweeting at me saying "This is all Goldens/D'Onofrio's/Coley's fault" it's a little aggravating when the reality of it is that it starts by being good recruiters and not letting schools like FSU, UF and Alabama take top players from your "Backyard"
Click to expand...

Tito, I get your point, but I am confused. Are you saying it is not that they are crappy coaches but rather that they suck at recruiting? Cause it is the same dudes doing both. I admit I can't tell if they getting the craped kicked out of them on the recruiting trail or on the practice field. Then one thing we all can see is that they certainly are having their rears handed to them on the PLAYING FIELD!

Answer me this. If Ed Reed was a freshman recruit in Al's first recruiting class, would he be on the field? He was and is a free lancing gambler who ocasionally got burned but usually won the game for us and is a NFL HOF type and maybe greatest ever safety. I don't think we would have ever heard on Ed. Remeber, Tracy is, I think, the highest rated recruit Al has had, and I remember him being accused of free lancing his first year and losing his black shirt.

You need the *s and the coaches need to know how to use them. But your point is well taken. Nobody needs to coach up Duke or Stacy. The question is are guys like Tracy and others being coached DOWN?
 
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Listen, we all want Top 10 classes. Anyone that says they don't is lying. It is awesome to pull up Rivals and see your team up there. Gives you a warm fuzzy feeling. But none of that matters if we don't deploy them well. This isn't a zero-sum game.
 
Gatorhater said:
Tito Benach said:
itsacanething said:
this board has a major case of FSU envy right now.
Click to expand...

Not envious whatsoever, but when I have people tweeting at me saying "This is all Goldens/D'Onofrio's/Coley's fault" it's a little aggravating when the reality of it is that it starts by being good recruiters and not letting schools like FSU, UF and Alabama take top players from your "Backyard"
Click to expand...

Tito, I get your point, but I am confused. Are you saying it is not that they are crappy coaches but rather that they suck at recruiting? Cause it is the same dudes doing both. I admit I can't tell if they getting the craped kicked out of them on the recruiting trail or on the practice field. Then one thing we all can see is that they certainly are having their rears handed to them on the PLAYING FIELD!

Answer me this. If Ed Reed was a freshman recruit in Al's first recruiting class, would he be on the field? He was and is a free lancing gambler who ocasionally got burned but usually won the game for us and is a NFL HOF type and maybe greatest ever safety. I don't think we would have ever heard on Ed. Remeber, Tracy is, I think, the highest rated recruit Al has had, and I remember him being accused of free lancing his first year and losing his black shirt.

You need the *s and the coaches need to know how to use them. But your point is well taken. Nobody needs to coach up Duke or Stacy. The question is are guys like Tracy and others being coached DOWN?
Click to expand...

I think the coaching is questionable to a certain extent. I think anyone here can admit that Tracy Howard was significantly better than he was last year regardless of the fact that he was a freshman. Most of those guys have progressed to some degree like Duke, Howard, McCord and others. But with guys like Highsmith, Rodgers, Robinson, Pierre, Henderson, and others I've seen little to no improvement. And all those guys are players who have been here for 3 years under Golden. I just feel that recruiting is more important than people take it for, sure you have those teams that don't have to recruit very well to be successful, but with where Miami is located; it should be a must.
 
AUcane said:
bbcane said:
AUcane said:
Can you do the same analysis for the following teams?

Mich State
Stanford
Oregon
Oklahoma
aTm
Duke
etc

Do we need to start regularly landing top 10 classes to beat the big boys? Probably. Do we need top 15 classes to not get throttled by the Dukes and Louisvilles of the world?
Click to expand...

Agree to a point, but we are talking nc winners.
Click to expand...

I hear you. What were our recruiting rankins circa 97-01?
Click to expand...

If in today's recruiting had to be top 5 and should have been 1
 
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Tito,

I couldn't agree with you more, I actually took the time on Sunday to explain to one of my frustrated friends why we are where we are and I showed him the differences in recruiting classes. Just to point out, I know everyone will bomb me for my next statement but, Coach D's first year defense was his best with Randy's players, that this staff coached up. Those seniors were part of the 2008 Number 1 class in the nation, that Randy could not get them to produce, but hey what do I know other than Arthur Brown couldn't get on the field ahead of the Romeo Davis and Glenn Cook of the world but transferred to become a star at Kansas State and is playing on Sundays. Obviously coaching plays a major role, but we haven't had the player to truly coach up. I also feel that we spent a lot of time recruiting kids that had little to no growth potential, meaning that tons of our top recruits were busts partly because they maxed out in HS. Perfect example of this is Aldarius Glue Hands Johnson, he was a man among boys in HS and when he made it to the big time he shined as a freshman, and then everyone caught up to him. On the other hand you have a kid like Allen Hurns, not very highly touted, hard worker, who truly grew and developed into an impactful senior. I feel that everyone has been quick to judge and very impatient with this staff considering that when we were 7-0 for the first time in years every said we were back...blah blah...Our fans in general, not all of us here, have blinders on and think every year will be like the late 80s and early 90s and early 2000s, we are not where we were before and we have to realize that it will take time to get there again. I know it has been years since our last title run, but it has also been years filled with mediocre coaching. Along with years of recruiting based on website information, highlight tapes, and stats rather than true player evaluation, which has been evident in the amount of player we have put in the league in recent years and the ones that have made something of themselves once they left our deteriorated program. Golden has truly changed things, he has created happiness and frustration, he has created a buzz, enough to get the city emotionally invested in the team. Created an environment where people actually decide to show up to see the canes play a Wake team or another mediocre team. I for one want to win as much as the next fan, but what Tito said is right on point, recruiting talent and developing it goes hand in hand, but consistently bring in top 10 classes gets you wins and I guess now into the playoffs since the BSC bowl system is gone. Now lets stop bashing the program or kids that decommit because in the end the ones that look bad and suffer our us as a program. Lets do our part as fans to focus on the future and the growth of the program now that we do not have this dark Shapiro could hanging over our heads. I for one was indifferent if Golden left or stayed, due to the fact Miami could have made a splash on another great coach this year more than other years, but I am happy he chose to stay and commit himself to our program.
 
I see the point about losing to Duke, V-Tech Louisville keeps coming up.

Where did Duke exploit Miami?, their D-line. Miami had 1 sack the entire game. All of the defensive linemen came from either the 2010 class or 2011. Show's you how talented they truly are.

Virginia Tech, same as above. Little to no pressure on Logan Thomas and the turnovers certainly did not help.

The Louisville loss is baffling to me considering they beat in what I thought was one of the strengths of this team in the offensive line.

I understand that our recruiting is better than the schools mentioned above, but thats where I feel coaching does play a big role.
 
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Rivals Rankings:

2013 rankings

Miami #20
Duke #68
VT #23
Louisville #52

2012 Rankings

Miami #9
Duke #52
VT #22
Louisville #42

2011 rankings

Miami #36
Duke #77
VT #33
Louisville #29

2010 rankings

Miami #16
Duke #72
VT #23
Louisville #48
 
Look at the teams Al Golden has lost to since he arrived:

2011: Maryland, Kansas St., Virginia Tech, Virginia, FSU, Boston College

2012: Kansas St., North Carolina, Notre Dame, FSU, Virginia

2013: FSU, Virginia Tech, Duke, Louisville



When you have incompetent coaches running your team, star rankings are irrelevant.
 
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Tito Benach said:
I see the point about losing to Duke, V-Tech Louisville keeps coming up.

Where did Duke exploit Miami?, their D-line. Miami had 1 sack the entire game. All of the defensive linemen came from either the 2010 class or 2011. Show's you how talented they truly are.

Virginia Tech, same as above. Little to no pressure on Logan Thomas and the turnovers certainly did not help.

The Louisville loss is baffling to me considering they beat in what I thought was one of the strengths of this team in the offensive line.

I understand that our recruiting is better than the schools mentioned above, but thats where I feel coaching does play a big role.
Click to expand...

those defensive shortcomings are further compounded when you're missing your best player and only real RB, so your offense is incapable of sustaining long drives and keeping the defense off the field.... And when your inept QB is incapable of checking down and consistently looks for the deep option...

insert Yearby and Kaaya asap please
 
The problem with citing a lack of pressure on Logan Thomas is it brings us full circle to coaching.

Golden was quoted the next day in the Herald saying they came into the game planning on not applying pressure to Thomas. Nailed it.
 
We don't have a top 10 class this year we just have a lot of recruits. Scout has us at 16 on avg star ranking so we have a 16th rated class. You don't win championships by being second in the country in number of 3 star commits. You need game changers and those typically come in the 4 or 5 star fashion.
 
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Andrew said:
We don't have a top 10 class this year we just have a lot of recruits. Scout has us at 16 on avg star ranking so we have a 16th rated class. You don't win championships by being second in the country in number of 3 star commits. You need game changers and those typically come in the 4 or 5 star fashion.
Click to expand...

Why do YOU think we no longer get top recruits?
 
PUNCICANE said:
Tito Benach said:
I see the point about losing to Duke, V-Tech Louisville keeps coming up.

Where did Duke exploit Miami?, their D-line. Miami had 1 sack the entire game. All of the defensive linemen came from either the 2010 class or 2011. Show's you how talented they truly are.

Virginia Tech, same as above. Little to no pressure on Logan Thomas and the turnovers certainly did not help.

The Louisville loss is baffling to me considering they beat in what I thought was one of the strengths of this team in the offensive line.

I understand that our recruiting is better than the schools mentioned above, but thats where I feel coaching does play a big role.
Click to expand...

those defensive shortcomings are further compounded when you're missing your best player and only real RB, so your offense is incapable of sustaining long drives and keeping the defense off the field.... And when your inept QB is incapable of checking down and consistently looks for the deep option...

insert Yearby and Kaaya asap please
Click to expand...

EXACTLY..like I said, a great QB covers up a lot of a team's deficiencies...if you can't convert on 3rd down & sustain drives, you'll wear your defense down. Look no further than what Auburn did to FSU's defense. Marshall's not a great thrower of a football, but consistently made plays on 3rd down to sustain drives & wear down FSU's defense
 
Al's classes are too top heavy he takes too many 3* fliers

Look at FSU's talent, Jerrnigan I know he crapped out in the 4th quarter but Good God Timmy Jerrnigan was a freakin' monster out there he was dominating Reese Dissmukes all night....I wish we had lineman like that at Miami
 
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