Thoughts on Ivins mock class

[Number1CanesFan]

EVERYTHING.

Our last 20 years can be summed up as such....incompetent AD picks incompetent coaches who underperform. That act of underperforming leads to losses that never should have happened . Meanwhile more and more elite local kids going elsewhere....and the vicious cycle continues to no end.

The simple fact EVERY one of our last 5 coaching hires failed to get another division 1 HC job tells you everything you need to know about the decision making of our administration. For the love of God, even Muschamp landed on his feet after the Gators canned him.

I'm all about curing the disease. The symptoms are all the other things you mentioned. To me the root of the problem filters its way all the down the chain and recruiting is one of the things that has suffered as a result.

I completely agree with getting the head coach right. I just don't know that we wind up any different than we are now. Hindsight is 20/20. Randy Shannon and Al Golden could have been the guy and were NOT. Who knew that Dabo Sweeny was going to turn out to be what he is. Clemson took a big chance on a guy that quite frankly had no business being a head coach. So, Shannon, Golden, and Diaz had more pedigree than Sweeney. Sweeney didn't start out that great either. Richt seemed like the perfect fit. I don't regret his hire. He got us the IPF. He showed what Miami could be with our big win against ND and a #2 ranking. He just refused to make the changes that were needed.

Diaz could be the next Dabo. He's willing to make changes, but is he willing to learn. He seems to let his ego get in the way. He should be learning from schools like Iowa and Wisconsin, and Clemson on how to run a program. What's most impressive about Dabo is that after their 2018 national championship his staff met with the Iowa State coaches to learn their 3-3-5/3-2-6 defense that they implemented in 2019. Here you have a coach that just won a title who was willing to scrap his defense for something he thought was better for his team. Now you could say that Diaz did the same thing with the offense, but it's not the same. Diaz has to be willing to change himself. How he ran the team last year was a disaster. Letting guys walk out of practice and not lose playing time. He's got to put his foot down and be consistent from the best player to the worst. Coach hard and fair.

What I'm trying to say here is that finding the right coach is a crapshoot. You just hope the AD hires the right guy for the right reasons. I really hope Diaz turns out to be that guy. Otherwise, we're going to linger in mediocrity for another 5 years.

Ri

 

[Jedi Master Cane]

I completely agree with getting the head coach right. I just don't know that we wind up any different than we are now. Hindsight is 20/20. Randy Shannon and Al Golden could have been the guy and were NOT. Who knew that Dabo Sweeny was going to turn out to be what he is. Clemson took a big chance on a guy that quite frankly had no business being a head coach. So, Shannon, Golden, and Diaz had more pedigree than Sweeney. Sweeney didn't start out that great either. Richt seemed like the perfect fit. I don't regret his hire. He got us the IPF. He showed what Miami could be with our big win against ND and a #2 ranking. He just refused to make the changes that were needed.

Diaz could be the next Dabo. He's willing to make changes, but is he willing to learn. He seems to let his ego get in the way. He should be learning from schools like Iowa and Wisconsin, and Clemson on how to run a program. What's most impressive about Dabo is that after their 2018 national championship his staff met with the Iowa State coaches to learn their 3-3-5/3-2-6 defense that they implemented in 2019. Here you have a coach that just won a title who was willing to scrap his defense for something he thought was better for his team. Now you could say that Diaz did the same thing with the offense, but it's not the same. Diaz has to be willing to change himself. How he ran the team last year was a disaster. Letting guys walk out of practice and not lose playing time. He's got to put his foot down and be consistent from the best player to the worst. Coach hard and fair.

What I'm trying to say here is that finding the right coach is a crapshoot. You just hope the AD hires the right guy for the right reasons. I really hope Diaz turns out to be that guy. Otherwise, we're going to linger in mediocrity for another 5 years.

Ri

I philosophically disagree with almost everything you've said here. For the sake of keeping this thread on topic we'll just agree to disagree. We need the right AD first and foremost before anything else, cause when you have the right guy in that role...picking a head coach is FAR from a crap shoot. The issue is we've become so accustomed to the incompetence in place here that these lines of reasoning start coming into play.

Like I said before, 5 consecutive ridiculously poor hires that held ZERO value in their HC capacity once fired here is everything that needs to be said. If it was a court case I'd drop that stat and then the mic. You take any professional, in ANY walk of life or industry, and tell me they failed 5 consecutive times with respect to decisions that pervasively impacted an entire program/organization....and they'd be fired from their respective line of work.

At the University of Miami such results get you job security......which pretty much sums up the problem. Our athletic department is the intersection of incompetence and apathy.

 

[Number1CanesFan]

I philosophically disagree with almost everything you've said here. For the sake of keeping this thread on topic we'll just agree to disagree. We need the right AD first and foremost before anything else, cause when you have the right guy in that role...picking a head coach is FAR from a crap shoot. The issue is we've become so accustomed to the incompetence in place here that these lines of reasoning start coming into play.

Just tske a look around. There's only a handful of coaches that are killing it. The question is what coaches didn't we get in any of the hires we've had in the past 5 coaches? IMO, most of college football has mediocre coaches.

I think you put too much weight on the AD. They pick 1 coach and that coach picks the rest of his staff. So, who should we have brought in?

I'm not making excuses for Blake James. I just don't know if there was much out there when we were looking for a new head coach. Perhaps I'm wrong.

 

[Jedi Master Cane]

Just tske a lool around. There's only a handful of coaches are killing it. The question is what coaches didn't we get in any of the hires we've had in the past 5 coaches. IMO, most of college football has mediocre coaches.

I think you put too much weight on the AD. They pick 1 coach and that coach picks the rest of his staff. So, who should we have brought in?

I'm not making excuses for Blake James. I just don't if there was much out there when we were looking for a new head coach. Perhaps I'm wrong.

No, you just don't put enough. Again, you and I are on WAAAYYYYY opposite sides of the spectrum. I disagree with pretty much every syllable of every word you've typed here.

As someone else mentioned in this thread....the problem could even be one step higher than Blake James since that incompetent piece of worthless garbage has been allowed to keep a position he was never qualified for in the first place. There is zero doubt in my mind that Blake is at least a big part of the problem though.

 

[Number1CanesFan]

No, you just don't put enough. Again, you and I are on WAAAYYYYY opposite sides of the spectrum. I disagree with pretty much every syllable of every word you've typed here.

You disagree, but provide no answers. Just that our AD and athletic administration is bad. Ok.

 

[Jedi Master Cane]

You disagree, but provide no answers. Just that our AD and athletic administration is bad. Ok.

I have a million answers that have been hashed on this site, and Grassy before it...for the last 2 decades. Like i said this isn't the place to reopen old wounds which I've already done.

 

[ColdCane]

I think if we win 10 games this season the whole recruiting board changes

 

[canefan96]

No, you just don't put enough. Again, you and I are on WAAAYYYYY opposite sides of the spectrum. I disagree with pretty much every syllable of every word you've typed here.

As someone else mentioned in this thread....the problem could even be one step higher than Blake James since that incompetent piece of worthless garbage has been allowed to keep a position he was never qualified for in the first place. There is zero doubt in my mind that Blake is at least a big part of the problem though.

Good point, the AD brings nothing to the table and is completely useles.

 

[561Cane]

The AD brings accountability. Hires the HC, who either gets the job done or doesn’t. If such HC doesn’t, then the AD terminates HC.

The problem as I see it goes back to Larry Coker. HC’s at UM have been kept far too long. Coker, Shannon and Golden totaled 5 extra years of ‘Dead Man Walking’ due to lack of accountability. All resulting in lost seasons for no reason other than lack of knowledge, confidence or just not caring.

2020 is a zero excuse season for Diaz. You either win your division or yet another HC kept too long. After year 2 as HC and 5 years at UM, it would be all needed to see. Weak schedule, more than enough talented team to win. He doesn’t do it now then move on. We shall see if the AD has the gumption if it comes to that. I fear not...

 

[Damiencane86]

In this scenario it would be terrible to not get smith, dawson, alexis but it'd be great snagging brinson, hood, and knowles. I'd also want a 4th o lineman even with Walker now in the fold.

 

[Number1CanesFan]

The AD brings accountability. Hires the HC, who either gets the job done or doesn’t. If such HC doesn’t, then the AD terminates HC.

The problem as I see it goes back to Larry Coker. HC’s at UM have been kept far too long. Coker, Shannon and Golden totaled 5 extra years of ‘Dead Man Walking’ due to lack of accountability. All resulting in lost seasons for no reason other than lack of knowledge, confidence or just not caring.

2020 is a zero excuse season for Diaz. You either win your division or yet another HC kept too long. After year 2 as HC and 5 years at UM, it would be all needed to see. Weak schedule, more than enough talented team to win. He doesn’t do it now then move on. We shall see if the AD has the gumption if it comes to that. I fear not...

I agree with most of what you said. Golden and Shannon were tenured too long, but there are reasons why.

Shannon coached 4 years from 2007-2010. In his first 3 years he went 5-7, 7-6, and 9-4. So, after his 3rd season, you think he has the program turned around, but then in 2010 the team goes 7-5 and Shannon is let go.

Al Golden coached at Miami from 2011-2015 taking over for Randy Shannon. In his first 3 years, Golden went 6-6, 7-5, and 9-4. Very similar to Shannon. In Golden's 4th year the team went 6-7. In his last season in 2015, Golden was fired after going 4-3 and the embarrassing loss to Clemson.

So, looking at both Shannon and Golden, ask yourself when should they have been fired? The only thing anyone could realistically say is that Golden should have been fired after the 2014 season. Both Shannon and Golden had 9-4 records in their 3rd year. Looking at it from an AD's perspective, you think these guys had turned the corner with the program, but didn't. And to be fair, Golden came in during the Nevin Shapiro scandal which had a huge impact on the program.

Looking at Dabo Swinney, he became the head coach at Clemson in the middle of the 2008 season when Tommy Bowden resigned. Dabo finished 2008 with a 4-3 record. He goes 9-5 in 2009. You think he's off to great start to his career, but goes 6-7 in his 3rd season. Should Clemson have fired him? Obviously, they didn't. He goes 10-4 in 2011, but suffers a humiliating loss to West Virginia 70-33. He rebounds in 2012 going 11-2 and never wins less than 10 games ever again. The rest as they say is history.

So, looking at the 3 coaches, Dabo had the worst record in his 3rd year and could have easily been fired. After all, he was just a WR coach of 4 years with zero head coaching experience prior to being named head coach at Clemson. If fired, Dabo could have easily been a Randy Shanon or an Al Golden. Clemson just got lucky taking a chance on a guy with zero head coaching experience in house.

Ironically, Manny Diaz is similar to Dabo Swinney in that they both became head coaches at schools they were on staff prior to their hire. Diaz had much more experience having been a defensive coordinator at several schools. Like Dabo, Manny is a good salesman. Is Dabo a better x's and o's coach. Probably not. Dabo has surrounded himself with very good people that have been with him a long time. He has established the culture he wants and is reaping the benefits in recruiting and titles. Let's see if Manny can do the same.

Looking at it all., IMO, we have just been unlucky the last 3 head coaches have all showed promise including Richt with his 10-3 2017 season. We have forgotten (maybe a good thing) how much the Nevin Shapiro scandal hurt the program. It allowed FSU, Clemson, Alabama, etc to plant a flag in our back yard. Now, we need to get them off our property. We do that by winning which will gradually get our top kids to stay home.

 

[Number1CanesFan]

The folks over at CaneReport have a mock class up today also. I like their class better, although it is a tough taste of reality. They don't think the class winds up in the top15. Good read on Saturday morning.

Well, that's to be expected after going 6-7. We need a great season with 11-3/12-2 (including a bowl win) type of season displaying an explosive offense to show recruits we're competitive with the top programs. It's a high bar, but it's what we need to make some noise with top recruits. We have a weak schedule so it's very obtainable.

 

[Handsome Squidbum]

I agree with most of what you said. Golden and Shannon were tenured too long, but there are reasons why.

Shannon coached 4 years from 2007-2010. In his first 3 years he went 5-7, 7-6, and 9-4. So, after his 3rd season, you think he has the program turned around, but then in 2010 the team goes 7-5 and Shannon is let go.

Al Golden coached at Miami from 2011-2015 taking over for Randy Shannon. In his first 3 years, Golden went 6-6, 7-5, and 9-4. Very similar to Shannon. In Golden's 4th year the team went 6-7. In his last season in 2015, Golden was fired after going 4-3 and the embarrassing loss to Clemson.

So, looking at both Shannon and Golden, ask yourself when should they have been fired? The only thing anyone could realistically say is that Golden should have been fired after the 2014 season. Both Shannon and Golden had 9-4 records in their 3rd year. Looking at it from an AD's perspective, you think these guys had turned the corner with the program, but didn't. And to be fair, Golden came in during the Nevin Shapiro scandal which had a huge impact on the program.

Looking at Dabo Swinney, he became the head coach at Clemson in the middle of the 2008 season when Tommy Bowden resigned. Dabo finished 2008 with a 4-3 record. He goes 9-5 in 2009. You think he's off to great start to his career, but goes 6-7 in his 3rd season. Should Clemson have fired him? Obviously, they didn't. He goes 10-4 in 2011, but suffers a humiliating loss to West Virginia 70-33. He rebounds in 2012 going 11-2 and never wins less than 10 games ever again. The rest as they say is history.

So, looking at the 3 coaches, Dabo had the worst record in his 3rd year and could have easily been fired. After all, he was just a WR coach of 4 years with zero head coaching experience prior to being named head coach at Clemson. If fired, Dabo could have easily been a Randy Shanon or an Al Golden. Clemson just got lucky taking a chance on a guy with zero head coaching experience in house.

Ironically, Manny Diaz is similar to Dabo Swinney in that they both became head coaches at schools they were on staff prior to their hire. Diaz had much more experience having been a defensive coordinator at several schools. Like Dabo, Manny is a good salesman. Is Dabo a better x's and o's coach. Probably not. Dabo has surrounded himself with very good people that have been with him a long time. He has established the culture he wants and is reaping the benefits in recruiting and titles. Let's see if Manny can do the same.

Looking at it all., IMO, we have just been unlucky the last 3 head coaches have all showed promise including Richt with his 10-3 2017 season. We have forgotten (maybe a good thing) how much the Nevin Shapiro scandal hurt the program. It allowed FSU, Clemson, Alabama, etc to plant a flag in our back yard. Now, we need to get them off our property. We do that by winning which will gradually get our top kids to stay home.

Should add that the 9 win season was looking like a 10 or 11 win season until Duke's devastating injury at FSU. Losing the heart and soul of the team sucked the air out of the room. You have to be a mentally challenged to honestly believe that the AD should have fired Golden after that season. After the 6-7 season, sure. However it is worth noting that the AD fired Golden mid-season the following year even though the team had a winning record at the time. You almost never see that.

 

[gogeta4]

I agree with most of what you said. Golden and Shannon were tenured too long, but there are reasons why.

Shannon coached 4 years from 2007-2010. In his first 3 years he went 5-7, 7-6, and 9-4. So, after his 3rd season, you think he has the program turned around, but then in 2010 the team goes 7-5 and Shannon is let go.

Al Golden coached at Miami from 2011-2015 taking over for Randy Shannon. In his first 3 years, Golden went 6-6, 7-5, and 9-4. Very similar to Shannon. In Golden's 4th year the team went 6-7. In his last season in 2015, Golden was fired after going 4-3 and the embarrassing loss to Clemson.

So, looking at both Shannon and Golden, ask yourself when should they have been fired? The only thing anyone could realistically say is that Golden should have been fired after the 2014 season. Both Shannon and Golden had 9-4 records in their 3rd year. Looking at it from an AD's perspective, you think these guys had turned the corner with the program, but didn't. And to be fair, Golden came in during the Nevin Shapiro scandal which had a huge impact on the program.

Looking at Dabo Swinney, he became the head coach at Clemson in the middle of the 2008 season when Tommy Bowden resigned. Dabo finished 2008 with a 4-3 record. He goes 9-5 in 2009. You think he's off to great start to his career, but goes 6-7 in his 3rd season. Should Clemson have fired him? Obviously, they didn't. He goes 10-4 in 2011, but suffers a humiliating loss to West Virginia 70-33. He rebounds in 2012 going 11-2 and never wins less than 10 games ever again. The rest as they say is history.

So, looking at the 3 coaches, Dabo had the worst record in his 3rd year and could have easily been fired. After all, he was just a WR coach of 4 years with zero head coaching experience prior to being named head coach at Clemson. If fired, Dabo could have easily been a Randy Shanon or an Al Golden. Clemson just got lucky taking a chance on a guy with zero head coaching experience in house.

Ironically, Manny Diaz is similar to Dabo Swinney in that they both became head coaches at schools they were on staff prior to their hire. Diaz had much more experience having been a defensive coordinator at several schools. Like Dabo, Manny is a good salesman. Is Dabo a better x's and o's coach. Probably not. Dabo has surrounded himself with very good people that have been with him a long time. He has established the culture he wants and is reaping the benefits in recruiting and titles. Let's see if Manny can do the same.

Looking at it all., IMO, we have just been unlucky the last 3 head coaches have all showed promise including Richt with his 10-3 2017 season. We have forgotten (maybe a good thing) how much the Nevin Shapiro scandal hurt the program. It allowed FSU, Clemson, Alabama, etc to plant a flag in our back yard. Now, we need to get them off our property. We do that by winning which will gradually get our top kids to stay home.

Manny never will be the recruiter of dabo's level. He has the bible thumping and the good ole boy oh shucks down to a pattern.

Dabo also initially has put real good guys around him because honestly he isnt really a good xs and o guy. Manny has filled his side of staff with a bunch of GA's level coaches...which was strange to me anyway.

But the one thing Manny has is the s.fla location...if that mfer hit and we go on a 2 year high winning seasons..the ball starts to roll on its own here.

 

[JennStrawley’sBabyDaddy]

Manny never will be the recruiter of dabo's level. He has the bible thumping and the good ole boy oh shucks down to a pattern.

Dabo also initially has put real good guys around him because honestly he isnt really a good xs and o guy. Manny has filled his side of staff with a bunch of GA's level coaches...which was strange to me anyway.

But the one thing Manny has is the s.fla location...if that mfer hit and we go on a 2 year high winning seasons..the ball starts to roll on its own here.

Dabo came off as a bit of an idiot in the beginning. The good ol boy demeanor only works now because he's earned respect. Manny's lisp would work for him if he's winning chips. He just has to win.

 

[Number1CanesFan]

Should add that the 9 win season was looking like a 10 or 11 win season until Duke's devastating injury at FSU. Losing the heart and soul of the team sucked the air out of the room. You have to be a mentally challenged to honestly believe that the AD should have fired Golden after that season. After the 6-7 season, sure. However it is worth noting that the AD fired Golden mid-season the following year even though the team had a winning record at the time. You almost never see that.

Agreed. I was just trying to break down how we got to where we are. A lot of people complaining about the hires and that they stayed too long. That wasn't the case with the exception of retaining Golden after going 6-7. So, one year out of 15 could have been handled differently. IDK who the candidates were that we interviewed and didn't hire in the past. How did their career pan out? I think we just got the luck of the draw (bad luck). What we had didn't pan out. Only a few in college football have. Everyone else is mediocre.

 

[JgDaCane]

were going to have a great season so this will all change.

 

[Handsome Squidbum]

Manny never will be the recruiter of dabo's level. He has the bible thumping and the good ole boy oh shucks down to a pattern.

Dabo also initially has put real good guys around him because honestly he isnt really a good xs and o guy. Manny has filled his side of staff with a bunch of GA's level coaches...which was strange to me anyway.

But the one thing Manny has is the s.fla location...if that mfer hit and we go on a 2 year high winning seasons..the ball starts to roll on its own here.

Oh I don't know. Diaz landing what is basically a top 10 class (with the potential for a 4 star QB and instant starter at LT TBD) after going 6-7 shows that Diaz isn't a slouch at recruiting. Mind you, Dabo likely also had some bag game going on, whereas I don't think Diaz does.

Dabo also didn't initially hire a bunch of good x and o guys. He mostly kept the staff intact from Bowden. Dabos big hire was Kevin Steele as DC, but then ended up firing him 3 years later.

There is zero doubt that 99% of porsters on this site would have clamored for Dabo to be fired after going 6-7 in year 3 if he'd been Miami's coach. Lucky for Clemson, the AD wasnt a reactionary fool and waited to see if the coaching staff changes Dabo made as a result of his bad season would pay off.

Dabos 1st class (2009) was ranked 36. After his 1st full season, his 2010 class was ranked 27th. If you compare apples to apples (1st full seasons as HC) , Diaz blows Dabo out of the water recruiting-wise.

 

[Number1CanesFan]

Manny never will be the recruiter of dabo's level. He has the bible thumping and the good ole boy oh shucks down to a pattern.

Dabo also initially has put real good guys around him because honestly he isnt really a good xs and o guy. Manny has filled his side of staff with a bunch of GA's level coaches...which was strange to me anyway.

But the one thing Manny has is the s.fla location...if that mfer hit and we go on a 2 year high winning seasons..the ball starts to roll on its own here.

I agree. Manny needs to establish a disciplined winning culture. Win 10+ games consistently and show well in the ACC title game and this thing can turn quickly. Our offensive line will be really good in 2021 with a bunch of experienced veterans plus Rivers and Walker will be in their 2nd year. Our 3 young DLs that redshirted will be in year three so we should be solid in both trenches where we COULD make a run at the ACC title and CFP with Trevor Lawrence moving onto the NFL. I think N'kosi or VanDyke will be the QB in 2021. I think Perry will start at QB against Bama in the 2021 opener. I hope he matures as a QB. He and Van Dyke have strong arms and can make the plays.

 

[ajone228]

Looking at the ratings of our recruits, it’s pretty crazy how underrated a lot of our guys are.