We the Boss
You're a disease
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The Most Damning Indictment Of Al's Coaching Ability Yet
- Thread starter WhatTheHell
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Cane Dynasty
Thunderdome Survivor
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It's sad that there are still idiots that can't trust what their eyes are telling them just by watching the games.
Canezum5
Senior
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Come on... gtfoh... look up the success rate of the recruit rankings over the last 10 years.
They're pretty **** good at pin pointing good players.
They do an ok job. Seriously go back and look at the top 100 most years. Half the guys you can't remember. The ones you do know, some were ok and the rest were really good.
TriStarCane
Letting It Rip To 8-4
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I'm just going to leave this here: http://regressing.deadspin.com/chart-which-ncaa-football-teams-outplay-their-recruit-1640831522
This is empirical evidence that we do, in fact, play worse than our talent level. Keep in mind that they found a significant correlation statistically between on field rankings and recruiting rankings.
This is empirical evidence that we do, in fact, play worse than our talent level. Keep in mind that they found a significant correlation statistically between on field rankings and recruiting rankings.
Cane Dynasty
Thunderdome Survivor
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That graph doesn't account for hooker abortions or boat rides. Nor does it take into account atmospheric anomalies.
01rodric
Greed is Good
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That would be an interesting interpretation, if it weren't for the fact that the vast majority of teams ranked ahead of us in recruiting also outrank us in the polls. So--conveniently-- they're only wrong about our recruits, and the recruits that were ranked lower than ours. Nice try, though, Al.
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weownfsu
Move to FCS
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The teams that win national championships have some of the best recruiting classes every year. The best teams over long stretches in college football have top rated recruiting classes. So what's more likely...the recruiting rankings are wrong or Al Golden sucks?
And if these recruiting rankings are wrong and Al Golden hasn't brought in any talent, why the **** is he the coach again? Certainly has nothing to do with the "cloud," because Golden has gotten plenty of guys that everybody else wanted.
What's more likely, you to have looked at a top 100 or just assume that because I made a comment that it had anything to do with Golden. Here is 2008. There was no reason why I picked 08. Just came up.
http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/footba...zcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkA0xPTkdUQzFfMQ--
Look at the guys we got. Now u could bring up the coach at that point too so go look at USC. Other than Cushing those guys were nobodies. Are going to question Carroll. **** go look at USC 05,06,07,08. Last 4 classes of Carroll. Littered with nothing but 4s and5s but they almost all stunk.
Oh and I bet you were one of those posters who claimed clappy sucked because he didn't recruit and went just off the rankings.
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weownfsu
Move to FCS
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WTF are you trying to even say? You realize what we are saying is that we're wasting talent at UM, right? USC crushed recruiting every year under Carroll, and basically had ONE down year--a 9-4 record. After 2001, that was their worst record under PC. 9-4. Good job, bro.
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Guess when that 9-4 season occurred? Hint after all the supposed great 05,06,07,08, recruiting classes. He left right after that and they weren't very good when the bulk of the team was made up of those bad classes. And we weren't discussing the wasting of talent. I stated that the services are just ok at ranking players. That has nothing to do with UM or golden.
Composite Recruiting Rankings, 2010-2013
TeamRivals 4-year rankingScout 4-year ranking4-year record2013 Final AP ranking
AlabamaNo. 1No. 146-7No. 7
FloridaNo. 2No. 730-21Not ranked
USCNo. 3No. 11 (tied)35-17Not ranked
Florida StateNo. 4No. 645-10No. 1
AuburnNo. 5No. 2 (tied)37-16No. 2
LSUNo. 6No. 2 (tied)44-9No. 14
TexasNo. 7No. 2 (tied)30-21Not ranked
Ohio StateNo. 8No. 2 (tied)42-10No. 12
GeorgiaNo. 9No. 9 (tied)36-18No. 31
OklahomaNo. 10 (tied)No. 843-10No. 6
Notre DameNo. 10 (tied)No. 11 (tied)37-15No. 20
MichiganNo. 12No. 9 (tied)33-19Not ranked
ClemsonNo. 13No. 1438-15No. 8
TennesseeNo. 14 (tied)No. 1721-28Not ranked
OregonNo. 14 (tied)No. 1347-6No. 9
Texas A&MNo. 16No. 1936-16No. 18
UCLANo. 17No. 1629-24No. 16
South CarolinaNo. 18No. 1842-11No. 4
NebraskaNo. 19No. 2438-16No. 26
MiamiNo. 20No. 2029-21Not ranked
CaliforniaNo. 21No. 2616-33Not ranked
Ole MissNo. 22No. 2221-29No. 33
WashingtonNo. 23No. 1530-22No. 25
Virginia TechNo. 24No. 3137-17Not ranked
StanfordNo. 25No. 2546-8No. 11
Oklahoma StateNo. 26No. 2141-11No. 17
ArkansasNo. 28No. 2328-22Not ranked
Here u go. 4 yr composite of the top 28 recruiting classes from 2010-2013. 12 didn't finish in the top 25. Close to 50%. Is 50% supposed to be good?
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poncho0091
Senior
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I did this study for someone else last year. Even with the guys we lose, we still have better recruits than these other programs simply because of how many people we recruit. We are often recruit close to 30 in a recruiting class where other teams are recruiting around 20-25 players unless it's one of the top teams. So if we lose 5-10 out of every class, our number of players is still close to the same as the other programs. Perfect example is Duke who recruits about 20 players almost all 2 stars with a couple 3 stars. Our 20 (mostly 4 star players) are better than their 20 mostly 2 star players.
CyberCane
Junior
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Everything said here is true. I would say the one thing that is perhaps forgotten is the impact that a great/elite QB can make on team's performance vs. recruiting classes pulled. I'm not making excuses for the staff at all. The thing to point out is that a team with a five year recruiting average of 30 (with an elite QB) is likely to beat a team with a 20th ranking and a below average QB.
Think of it like Urban Meyer with Tim Tebow and Urban Meyer after Tebow left. Their recruiting ranking over past five years didn't change, but they got much worse after he left. Think about Jimbo Fisher if Jameis goes to Texas. Entirely different football team most likely. Same goes for Johnny Football at T A&M, etc...
Hope that makes some sense. That said, on the whole the argument is spot on.
Think of it like Urban Meyer with Tim Tebow and Urban Meyer after Tebow left. Their recruiting ranking over past five years didn't change, but they got much worse after he left. Think about Jimbo Fisher if Jameis goes to Texas. Entirely different football team most likely. Same goes for Johnny Football at T A&M, etc...
Hope that makes some sense. That said, on the whole the argument is spot on.
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01rodric
Greed is Good
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The Qb is important. So are the DTs that have avoided our defense like the ******* plague. That factors in, but Golden can't use it as an excuse because it's his own cotdam fault. Signing A NLOI to play DT for Dorito is like preemptively filling out an application to flip pancakes at the Original House of Pancakes.
canesrdynamite
Sophomore
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The 2nd year pummeling at KState was a microcosm of everything currently wrong with this program. Our recruits are ranked 56! places higher, and we get beat by 38 points.
Failure to adjust. Completely outcoached at every position. They overachieved. We underachieved. We got worse as both game and season progressed. They got better. Etc etc
Is there a stat for improvement of recruits? Something like star differential? Came in at X graduates or drafted at Y. No? Well, there should be.
Failure to adjust. Completely outcoached at every position. They overachieved. We underachieved. We got worse as both game and season progressed. They got better. Etc etc
Is there a stat for improvement of recruits? Something like star differential? Came in at X graduates or drafted at Y. No? Well, there should be.
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jruiz
Ham Porter
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so the recruiting classes of the national championship teams the past few years have been overrated? Because they are all loaded with 4 and five star players.
Because they would laugh in your face. Furthermore, this "extrapolation" would provide more evidence that a majority of our fan base is uneducated and blowhards.
Don't get me wrong, I am certainly on the bandwagon to replace our Defensive Coordinator following the season. I am not a supporter of letting Al Golden go unless you can replace him with a bonafide proven winner with HC experience at the Div 1 level. I don't know what the future looks like for Golden but if you want to be mired in mediocrity for eternity, turning over your coaching staff every 4 years will do it.
Back to your argument.
First, those are not statistics. They are objective rankings that are not accurate in the short run and significantly less accurate in the long run.
1. You do realize that almost all players from the 5th year in the set are not on the team that you are measuring.
2. Attrition is not accounted for at all. In 2011, for example, Brandon Harris and Arthur Brown, the 2 highest ranking players were already gone. Ray Ray Armstrong played maybe 2 games because of suspension. Olivier Vernon missed 6 games. Marcus Forston was injured during 2nd game of season. Aldarius Johnson was suspended for season. Your top recruits from the years that are supposed to be your core team (year 3 & 4) had essentially 0 impact.
3. Going forward, the remaining recruits with high rankings - Brandon Washington, lamar Miller, Dyron Dye, Vernon, Marcus Forston, Tommy Streeter all left early for the draft
4. The 2009 & 2010 classes, Shannon's last 2 classes were absolute dumpster fires.
So the teams that you are arguing are more talented than the opponents with whom we lost too are made up of mostly low end recruits...you know..like the players that Duke signs.
There is no accounting for injury like not having Duke Johnson, Deon Bush, or Phil Dorsett most of the season? We were 6-0 until we lost to FSU (who crushed Auburn in the NC) and played the rest of the season wthout our 2 best offensive weapons. Our starting RB was Dallas Crawford. Pretty big differential between Duke and Dallas.
And what water does this argument hold when you are using teams like Kansas St and Duke (2013 version) as your basis when both teams lost 1 game those seasons.
Using the same logic, we beat Florida and Ohio State, they certainly "out recruited" us.
What is the difference between the 18th spot and the 30th spot? 1 5 star player? 5 3 star players? The difference out of the top 5-10 is minimal. You can't extrapolate that a team is more talented when you are 7 spots ahead in the recruiting rankings from 17th to 25th.
Your argument has more holes than swiss cheese. It proves nothing even if you were to assume the recruiting rankings to be accurate at the time of the rankings...the only thing that matters is who contributed, for how long, and the impact that players of certain positions can effect a game like Teddy Bridgewater or Colin Klein.
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Not surprising to see the guy that made these comments get all up in arms over a post further exposing his hero. You don't think other programs have some attrition? Injuries?
Golden is finished here. Cherish these final days.
Golden is finished here. Cherish these final days.
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How is canesb not in the red, this is klanalmighty level porsting... wow