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The Manny Diaz scheme and Blake Baker taking a dump on it

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kyle_schick said:
Stop thinking there is a difference between Baker and Diaz as the Defensive Coordinator.

Its Mannys scheme. Its his system that he has a yes-man mongoloid run for him.

ITS THE SAME. It doesn't matter who calls it.

The reason it looks worse this year is because the more talented players from the previous regimes are gone.
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No Kyle. While your points have some merit it is not the same. Yes it is Manny's scheme but the coach who calls the defense on game day makes a huge difference. Diaz is far superior to Baker in terms of calling the defensive plays.

I'm all for moving on to a different scheme as long as we remain an aggressive defense.
 
his scheme seemed to work fine when Manny was running it. There has been a definite drop off since Baker has taken over. Could be partly a drop off in overall defensive talent since what we have had when Richt took over or play calling or a bit of both. If we are going to play more aggressive schemes with press coverage we do need to upgrade our cb talent. I think our front 7, with a change of scheme up front would be serviceable. Maybe a scheme playing with a little more gap integrity would help.
 
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It's the same scheme. The PLAY CALLS might be different from Baker to Diaz, but the overall scheme and concepts are the same.

Let's not act like Diaz as a DC hasn't shown some of the same flaws as Baker. Remember, we're talking about a guy who was fired after giving up 3,494,923 rushing yards in one game. Sound familiar?
 
Even with the myth that Manny takes over the play calling from time to time, that wouldn't change the soft zone concepts, the lack of gap integrity, etc. Those are fundamental things that are a part of our scheme. Those are principle fundamentals of the way Manny/Baker like to play defense. The zone defense doesn't suddenly get tighter when somebody else takes over the reigns. Somebody else stepping in as DC in the second half of a game can only change PLAY CALLS, not concepts and principles.
 
We won what 8 games? Really didn't beat anyone and got trounced on a couple of occasions.

It is up to Manny to improve on that number. Or? He is gone. His choice.
 
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BS85 said:
Manny's defense is way better when he's calling it but his scheme has run its course.
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I don't understand ANY Coordinator or Head Coach thinking that his offense/defense is so spectacular and monolithic that it must be run forever and ever with no modifications or improvements. It's insanity.

The wishbone worked for a while. Then it didn't. Dennis Erickson brought his 1-back passing attack to Miami, but who is still running that offense the way that he did?

Contrast these self-professed genius coaches (and their BRILLIANT schemes) with coaches who emphasized a particular approach, rather than one formation on offense or defense. Guys like JJ, who brought speed and length to the defensive side of the ball, but was not locked into one specific "scheme".

At the end of the day, this is the real issue. Any O-coach can have his "playbook", but over time, everyone figures out the plays and/or the formations. Longevity is achieved through constant innovation, no matter how that is accomplished. Saban continues to bring in different coordinators, and the ongoing change keeps Alabama on top. Other coordinators/head coaches constantly tinker with their playbooks and formations, and pursue the various trends (stand-up DLs, bigger/hard-hitting safeties, etc.).

Manny needs to wake up. His defensive innovations landed him a dream job. Now he needs to do what great leaders are capable of doing, which is to try to hire people smarter/better than you to work for you. Too many head coaches have tumbled because they pridefully and mistakenly thought they could squeeze the juice from the orange indefinitely.

Move on, Manny. Hire a DC who is as hungry and aggressive as Lashlee.
 
Coach Macho said:
Even with the myth that Manny takes over the play calling from time to time, that wouldn't change the soft zone concepts, the lack of gap integrity, etc. Those are fundamental things that are a part of our scheme. Those are principle fundamentals of the way Manny/Baker like to play defense. The zone defense doesn't suddenly get tighter when somebody else takes over the reigns. Somebody else stepping in as DC in the second half of a game can only change PLAY CALLS, not concepts and principles.
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Manny takes over when it works and its baker when it doesnt, lol..

Manny benefited from decent talent and lowkey it has dropped off in places, we had to ask McCloud to come back (not sure if its a good thing) because in 4 years we couldnt have anybody prepared after Golden LB recruits.. These are all Manny players now to fit his scheme, why the scheme not working?!
 
TheOriginalCane said:
I don't understand ANY Coordinator or Head Coach thinking that his offense/defense is so spectacular and monolithic that it must be run forever and ever with no modifications or improvements. It's insanity.

The wishbone worked for a while. Then it didn't. Dennis Erickson brought his 1-back passing attack to Miami, but who is still running that offense the way that he did?

Contrast these self-professed genius coaches (and their BRILLIANT schemes) with coaches who emphasized a particular approach, rather than one formation on offense or defense. Guys like JJ, who brought speed and length to the defensive side of the ball, but was not locked into one specific "scheme".

At the end of the day, this is the real issue. Any O-coach can have his "playbook", but over time, everyone figures out the plays and/or the formations. Longevity is achieved through constant innovation, no matter how that is accomplished. Saban continues to bring in different coordinators, and the ongoing change keeps Alabama on top. Other coordinators/head coaches constantly tinker with their playbooks and formations, and pursue the various trends (stand-up DLs, bigger/hard-hitting safeties, etc.).

Manny needs to wake up. His defensive innovations landed him a dream job. Now he needs to do what great leaders are capable of doing, which is to try to hire people smarter/better than you to work for you. Too many head coaches have tumbled because they pridefully and mistakenly thought they could squeeze the juice from the orange indefinitely.

Move on, Manny. Hire a DC who is as hungry and aggressive as Lashlee.
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Saban Believes in adapt or DIE.. and its not just coach talk, he walked it by changing whole identity even when he was uncomfortable with it as a defensive type coach and went spread.. Also showed it when they got raped by OSU and sat down with Tom Herman when he was on way to texas and asked him how and why he attacked his defense that way..

Manny says I like my yes men
 
skyman said:
Saban Believes in adapt or DIE.. and its not just coach talk, he walked it by changing whole identity even when he was uncomfortable with it as a defensive type coach and went spread.. Also showed it when they got raped by OSU and sat down with Tom Herman when he was on way to texas and asked him how and why he attacked his defense that way..

Manny says I like my yes men
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Manny has only been a HC for 2 years. I don't know that he is locked in to yes men. Yet.

But, yes, people have to get comfortable with being uncomfortable. Manny needs to learn this quickly (and accept it) or his dream job will be gone and he'll be coaching tight ends for the Detroit Lions.
 
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What is transpiring doesn't have the ole recipe for success. The coaches we are losing may be some of the coaches(not all) who are the better recruiters. The coaches we seem to be keeping aren't really great recruiters or coaches.

On a different thread I think Tetra touched on leadership. There is none here. No accountability for the coaches or the players. Missed assignments? Still playing. Targeting for the millionth time? Still playing. Not ready after a bye? Still coaching. Giving up 700 yards? Still coaching.

They talk a great game before and after but even us little guys know talk is just that and cheap. I believe our recruiting classes have been better than 6-7 and an inflated 8 win season. Did the best with the players available? Those are his **** recruits. If not, then he didn't recruit for that position group well enough. He was the defensive coach so please don't say he has been here two years.

Manny owns it and as the head coach he needs to make those decisions. Maybe they will work. In the end it is his job on the line. I was happy he got the job but for me year three is the key. Don't improve there is no need for year 4.
 
Salt said:
his scheme seemed to work fine when Manny was running it. There has been a definite drop off since Baker has taken over. Could be partly a drop off in overall defensive talent since what we have had when Richt took over or play calling or a bit of both. If we are going to play more aggressive schemes with press coverage we do need to upgrade our cb talent. I think our front 7, with a change of scheme up front would be serviceable. Maybe a scheme playing with a little more gap integrity would help.
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Clemsons defense isn't much different than ours but they do two things we don't. The defensive line plays with better gap integrity and they play press man. Those are two things we need in our defense.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
I don't understand ANY Coordinator or Head Coach thinking that his offense/defense is so spectacular and monolithic that it must be run forever and ever with no modifications or improvements. It's insanity.

The wishbone worked for a while. Then it didn't. Dennis Erickson brought his 1-back passing attack to Miami, but who is still running that offense the way that he did?

Contrast these self-professed genius coaches (and their BRILLIANT schemes) with coaches who emphasized a particular approach, rather than one formation on offense or defense. Guys like JJ, who brought speed and length to the defensive side of the ball, but was not locked into one specific "scheme".

At the end of the day, this is the real issue. Any O-coach can have his "playbook", but over time, everyone figures out the plays and/or the formations. Longevity is achieved through constant innovation, no matter how that is accomplished. Saban continues to bring in different coordinators, and the ongoing change keeps Alabama on top. Other coordinators/head coaches constantly tinker with their playbooks and formations, and pursue the various trends (stand-up DLs, bigger/hard-hitting safeties, etc.).

Manny needs to wake up. His defensive innovations landed him a dream job. Now he needs to do what great leaders are capable of doing, which is to try to hire people smarter/better than you to work for you. Too many head coaches have tumbled because they pridefully and mistakenly thought they could squeeze the juice from the orange indefinitely.

Move on, Manny. Hire a DC who is as hungry and aggressive as Lashlee.
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The CFB world caught up to Erickson's one/no back offense before too long....Problem with Dennis was...not having a legitimate back-up scheme (see Bama)....I still am livid why you would run an offensive system in a NC game, and said system played directly into Bama's strengths.....
 
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skyman said:
Saban Believes in adapt or DIE.. and its not just coach talk, he walked it by changing whole identity even when he was uncomfortable with it as a defensive type coach and went spread.. Also showed it when they got raped by OSU and sat down with Tom Herman when he was on way to texas and asked him how and why he attacked his defense that way..

Manny says I like my yes men
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It did take saban two years of getting beat by Nick marshall,trevor knight and cardale jones before he switched up the defense and put less emphasis on the 3-4 defense and started playing a 4-2-5 more. Same thing with the offense. I think many isn't married to his way of playing defense as much as we think. But we'll see
 
skyman said:
Saban Believes in adapt or DIE.. and its not just coach talk, he walked it by changing whole identity even when he was uncomfortable with it as a defensive type coach and went spread.. Also showed it when they got raped by OSU and sat down with Tom Herman when he was on way to texas and asked him how and why he attacked his defense that way..

Manny says I like my yes men
Click to expand...
Saban doesn't get enough credit for this.
Everybody accuses him of being an arrogant, hard-headed jacka$$....but he's been coaching ball FOREVER and has managed to stay a winner despite being an old fart in a constantly evolving game. You don't accomplish that by being stuck in your ways.

He completely altered the makeup of his Alabama program.
They went from being a team that ran the ball down your throat via the pro-style offense and a revolving door at RB, to now being a spread team that keeps 3/4 first rounders at WR.
On defense he completely changed the way he recruited to better defend these wide open spread offenses.
 
Manny said during the season he is in all of the D meetings as a minimum. It’s not like he was surprised by our soft playing secondary etc. The LB play and “development” is nothing short of deplorable. Correct me if I’m wrong, but Shaq and Pink really never progressed from their freshman year. They were good when they arrived and good when they left. Baker has plunged the D to even new lows. IMO, a no brained that an entire new D staff is needed. Manny firing one coach then plugging holes would be his professional suicide
 
Ericsoncane said:
Clemsons defense isn't much different than ours but they do two things we don't. The defensive line plays with better gap integrity and they play press man. Those are two things we need in our defense.
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I agree. There also needs to be more discipline lb play. I think with better cbs we can play more press. I think they don't trust their cbs right now. We saw arguably our best corner get abused by Okie St.
 
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