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The "Cloud"

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DMoney said:
It's unfair to say there was no cloud. When CNN is in front of your building talking about the death penalty, it affects the perception of your program. It hurt us most with national guys and JUCOs.

The bigger issue is the failure to identify and develop local 3-star talent. Guys who would walk through the cloud to play for Miami. The Louisville game crystallized that. They beat us down with those three-stars, while the kids we plucked from the Golden Camp watched from the bench.

This team has some premium talent. I'd pick our top four players over anybody's top four players. But there are no coal shovelers, to use a Goldenism, and those guys have nothing to do with the cloud.
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Who are some Golden Camp duds so far? I tried to stop following recruiting for a year or two but it was too difficult living down here.

And who would you categorize as guys our staff overlooked but shouldn't have (minus the Louisville kids) ?

McKenzie, Dowels, Cerenod, Battle, S. White from this year? Skai from last season?
 
GoldenShowers said:
mapcane said:
There is a difference. Florida has markedly better facilities, plays in the SEC, and...probably doles out some cash. Florida will always recruit well because of that, similar to Texas, LSU, and some other big schools. Kids come to Miami because they're local, and / or because its a dominant program that has been a pipeline, and has strong ties, to the NFL. The latter facet of this program is not there right now. We're not churning out NFL players anymore; we're a middling ACC; and there isn't anything that we do schematically that helps kids get into the league.

This program cannot hire a mediocre, or even marginally good coach. Texas can. So can FSU. We, however, need someone who is REALLY good at recruiting (either or both evaluating and closing) or at coaching them up. If you look at our history, we've had some great coaches -- Schnelly, JJ, Erickson, and Butch. All were GREAT at something or at a combination of things, even Erickson, who was an alcoholic disaster and a bad recruiter, but who could coach them up on offense. Right now, we have a coach who is an organized, diligent recruiter, but not really a great one -- either in evals or in closing. He's clearly a below average Xs and Os coach. As long as this is the case, we're going to be suffering through some tough *** Signing Days, regardless of whether there is a cloud or whether it's sunny as balls.




Problem2 said:
And saying it's because we suck is bull**** because Florida is having no problem.
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Please look up the resume of Howard Schnellenberger before you make nonsense claims that "we can't hire anyone good". We used to do it all the time.
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Lol Wut? Schnelly was an HC for one year in the mid 70s and was fired. He was the OC for the Dolphins when he got hired as the HC for UM. Schelly wasnt exactly a "hot" commodity when he was hired at UM, nothing that can compare to guys like Saban, Meyer, Miles, etc.
 
DMoney said:
It's unfair to say there was no cloud. When CNN is in front of your building talking about the death penalty, it affects the perception of your program. It hurt us most with national guys and JUCOs.

The bigger issue is the failure to identify and develop local 3-star talent. Guys who would walk through the cloud to play for Miami. The Louisville game crystallized that. They beat us down with those three-stars, while the kids we plucked from the Golden Camp watched from the bench.

This team has some premium talent. I'd pick our top four players over anybody's top four players. But there are no coal shovelers, to use a Goldenism, and those guys have nothing to do with the cloud.
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I absolutely agree with this. Have been saying it for a long time. Not every team is all about the 4 and 5 star guys. Its about the "workers" who provide your backbone and quality depth. This is a huge problem on this team.

In fairness though, its been a LOT of bad luck here. Take LB for example. It was guys like Paul and Terry who would have complemented EJ and DP this year. 3/4ths of that was lost with those guys, and our defense was that much worse for it. As bad as Dorito is, I really believe that defense would have looked a lot different with EJ, Paul and Terry vs Gaines, Conelius and Armbrister.
 
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WhatTheHell said:
DMoney said:
It's unfair to say there was no cloud. When CNN is in front of your building talking about the death penalty, it affects the perception of your program. It hurt us most with national guys and JUCOs.

The bigger issue is the failure to identify and develop local 3-star talent. Guys who would walk through the cloud to play for Miami. The Louisville game crystallized that. They beat us down with those three-stars, while the kids we plucked from the Golden Camp watched from the bench.

This team has some premium talent. I'd pick our top four players over anybody's top four players. But there are no coal shovelers, to use a Goldenism, and those guys have nothing to do with the cloud.
Click to expand...

Who are some Golden Camp duds so far? I tried to stop following recruiting for a year or two but it was too difficult living down here.

And who would you categorize as guys our staff overlooked but shouldn't have (minus the Louisville kids) ?

McKenzie, Dowels, Cerenod, Battle, S. White from this year? Skai from last season?
Click to expand...

Guys who haven't done much yet are Hoilett, O'Donnell, Jones, Dortch, Hope. Vernon Davis transfered right away as well. Not sure if Ivery was a camp guy.
 
WhatTheHell said:
Bad luck. Never the staff's fault.
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I never said its "never" the staff's fault. But EJ, Terry and Paul are the staff's fault? Kids got kicked out of school under Butch too you know. In 98/99 we were DESPERAELY short of DTs, and Butch had to boot Adrian Wilson for choking out his girlfriend. All Im saying is that some of this has just been sh8tty luck. At least the LB situation was. Storm Johnson was another one we could have really used this year. What about Ivery?

Some of it was definitely weak recruiting, but I have given them a pass on that first year. Its not all black and white. They have certainly made mistakes. But some of it has been bad luck too.
 
CANE4LIFE said:
WhatTheHell said:
Bad luck. Never the staff's fault.
Click to expand...

I never said its "never" the staff's fault. But EJ, Terry and Paul are the staff's fault? Kids got kicked out of school under Butch too you know. In 98/99 we were DESPERAELY short of DTs, and Butch had to boot Adrian Wilson for choking out his girlfriend. All Im saying is that some of this has just been sh8tty luck. At least the LB situation was. Storm Johnson was another one we could have really used this year. What about Ivery?

Some of it was definitely weak recruiting, but I have given them a pass on that first year. Its not all black and white. They have certainly made mistakes. But some of it has been bad luck too.
Click to expand...

Part of recruiting is getting guys that aren't knuckleheads and won't get kicked out of school IMO.
 
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WhatTheHell said:
DMoney said:
It's unfair to say there was no cloud. When CNN is in front of your building talking about the death penalty, it affects the perception of your program. It hurt us most with national guys and JUCOs.

The bigger issue is the failure to identify and develop local 3-star talent. Guys who would walk through the cloud to play for Miami. The Louisville game crystallized that. They beat us down with those three-stars, while the kids we plucked from the Golden Camp watched from the bench.

This team has some premium talent. I'd pick our top four players over anybody's top four players. But there are no coal shovelers, to use a Goldenism, and those guys have nothing to do with the cloud.
Click to expand...

Who are some Golden Camp duds so far? I tried to stop following recruiting for a year or two but it was too difficult living down here.

And who would you categorize as guys our staff overlooked but shouldn't have (minus the Louisville kids) ?

McKenzie, Dowels, Cerenod, Battle, S. White from this year? Skai from last season?
Click to expand...

Gaines, and Burgess were guys I think Golden could've had if he wanted them.
 
Golden's evals leave a lot to be desired

His player development is sub par

We probably would have some coal shovelers if Golden knew how to develop talent and thats the biggest problem we face.
 
Diego. In all fairness I think those guys like Hoilett, O Donnell, etc are kinda just "roster" guys aren't they? I'm sure FSU's "roster" guys are way better but I think in order to call a guy a "dud" he would have had to have high expectations from the start...no?

Also..can I ask a question about Cook & Yearby (since I'm not in So FL). I keep reading that Miami missed on Cook. Does that mean we "settled" for Yearby? Is he the consolation prize? I have to imagine that even though they played together in HS, neither guy wants to be sharing the spotlight at ANY University. This next level is going to be their ticket to the NFL.

My point is that if we wanted and loved Yearby, I think its unrealistic to expect this staff to get BOTH guys to sign on.

Am I way off here?
 
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HurricaneGlory said:
trUstno1 said:
Problem2 said:
And saying it's because we suck is bull**** because Florida is having no problem.
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Florida did the right thing by firing their OC and bringing in a new guy. They could sell the recruits a story on how different and great the offense would look next year. We kept our putrid DC and the recruits on the fence saw no hope of any change in our ****** defense. If Al would have done the right thing (fire his bff), and brought in ANY new DC, he could have sold the recruits on how different and great the defense would look next year.
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Even if we fired the dc I don't think we would've finished strong. Florida has better recruiters than we do IMO. They also have more resources, facilities, and recent success. Coley and Hurlie are the only dudes I trust to reel in top guys. Barrow makes good evaluations and is a solid, not great recruiter.

Carroll failed to reel in Dixon, Lane, or Rudolph.
Paul Williams made some very questionable evals this period by taking Dennis turner, Mayes, and bethel over Battle, Michael Johnson, Dowels, and Wilson.
Coach D has mishandled Broward recruiting the previous two years.

And I still have major concerns about Goldens ability to Sell & evaluate. Powell and Gibbons both flipped 2 weeks after an in home visit.
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I don't disagree with what you said, but it is an easy sell for the U*** recruiters to sell their offense to new recruits because of the new OC and they can point out that their defense is solid. We can't sell anyone on our defense and even potential offensive recruits can be shown that our ****** defense will keep them off the field. Totally agree with you on Carroll and Williams.
 
MarcoD70 said:
Diego. In all fairness I think those guys like Hoilett, O Donnell, etc are kinda just "roster" guys aren't they? I'm sure FSU's "roster" guys are way better but I think in order to call a guy a "dud" he would have had to have high expectations from the start...no?

Also..can I ask a question about Cook & Yearby (since I'm not in So FL). I keep reading that Miami missed on Cook. Does that mean we "settled" for Yearby? Is he the consolation prize? I have to imagine that even though they played together in HS, neither guy wants to be sharing the spotlight at ANY University. This next level is going to be their ticket to the NFL.

My point is that if we wanted and loved Yearby, I think its unrealistic to expect this staff to get BOTH guys to sign on.

Am I way off here?
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Miami shouldn't be recruiting a player if they don't think he can contribute. None of those guys have yet to carve out a role on STs either.
 
come Wed....it gets better


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The "cloud" was very real and everyone who reports or follows recruiting knows it. It's not an excuse and you're just being dishonest if you think that.

The way we ended the season and "the Scheme" are what's hurting us down the stretch now. If we finish stronger and get a bowl win I think we get a few more big names. Add to that Al's flirtation with PSU (I don't blame him, it's his Alma mater) and FSU's season (Heisman/MNC) and that's a whole other pile of **** that he has to deal with.

So while Al has created some of these problems by not finishing and the PSU BS, that doesn't mean the NCAA "cloud" wasn't a major problem.
 
DiegoCane said:
WhatTheHell said:
DMoney said:
It's unfair to say there was no cloud. When CNN is in front of your building talking about the death penalty, it affects the perception of your program. It hurt us most with national guys and JUCOs.

The bigger issue is the failure to identify and develop local 3-star talent. Guys who would walk through the cloud to play for Miami. The Louisville game crystallized that. They beat us down with those three-stars, while the kids we plucked from the Golden Camp watched from the bench.

This team has some premium talent. I'd pick our top four players over anybody's top four players. But there are no coal shovelers, to use a Goldenism, and those guys have nothing to do with the cloud.
Click to expand...

Who are some Golden Camp duds so far? I tried to stop following recruiting for a year or two but it was too difficult living down here.

And who would you categorize as guys our staff overlooked but shouldn't have (minus the Louisville kids) ?

McKenzie, Dowels, Cerenod, Battle, S. White from this year? Skai from last season?
Click to expand...

Guys who haven't done much yet are Hoilett, O'Donnell, Jones, Dortch, Hope. Vernon Davis transfered right away as well. Not sure if Ivery was a camp guy.
Click to expand...

Did Al get those guys from a football camp or a special needs camp?
 
DiegoCane said:
CANE4LIFE said:
WhatTheHell said:
Bad luck. Never the staff's fault.
Click to expand...

I never said its "never" the staff's fault. But EJ, Terry and Paul are the staff's fault? Kids got kicked out of school under Butch too you know. In 98/99 we were DESPERAELY short of DTs, and Butch had to boot Adrian Wilson for choking out his girlfriend. All Im saying is that some of this has just been sh8tty luck. At least the LB situation was. Storm Johnson was another one we could have really used this year. What about Ivery?

Some of it was definitely weak recruiting, but I have given them a pass on that first year. Its not all black and white. They have certainly made mistakes. But some of it has been bad luck too.
Click to expand...

Part of recruiting is getting guys that aren't knuckleheads and won't get kicked out of school IMO.
Click to expand...

Ok. So then what HC is great at that? Because most major programs have had kids get into some major trouble. FSU was Felony State under Bobby B. Meyer was running a juvenille delinquent camp up in Gainesville. There are players getting in trouble at every major program in America. Unfortunately for UM, it disproportionately impacted ONE side of the ball, and there was little to no depth to replace it with.
 
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