The "Cloud"

[NateDogg]

It's unfair to say there was no cloud. When CNN is in front of your building talking about the death penalty, it affects the perception of your program. It hurt us most with national guys and JUCOs.

The bigger issue is the failure to identify and develop local 3-star talent. Guys who would walk through the cloud to play for Miami. The Louisville game crystallized that. They beat us down with those three-stars, while the kids we plucked from the Golden Camp watched from the bench.

This team has some premium talent. I'd pick our top four players over anybody's top four players. But there are no coal shovelers, to use a Goldenism, and those guys have nothing to do with the cloud.

real talk/real question for you D$:

do you think our staff could be expected to have developed those 3 star guys at louisville the same? would they have 'balled out' in our defensive scheme? I'm bearish on this staff and their ability to develop talent.

 

[UMFarArcher]

come Wed....it gets better

Yup, the program's sun is setting.

 

[miamifan007]

I think NCAA cloud did affect us in the beginning years but it shouldn't now.

 

[crossover22[]_[]]

The so called cloud did hurt the first 3 seasons. But honestly it shouldn't be hurting us at all anymore. Just because its over with now doesn't mean that it didn't hurt while we were going through it

 

[MarcoD70]

Diego. In all fairness I think those guys like Hoilett, O Donnell, etc are kinda just "roster" guys aren't they? I'm sure FSU's "roster" guys are way better but I think in order to call a guy a "dud" he would have had to have high expectations from the start...no?

Also..can I ask a question about Cook & Yearby (since I'm not in So FL). I keep reading that Miami missed on Cook. Does that mean we "settled" for Yearby? Is he the consolation prize? I have to imagine that even though they played together in HS, neither guy wants to be sharing the spotlight at ANY University. This next level is going to be their ticket to the NFL.

My point is that if we wanted and loved Yearby, I think its unrealistic to expect this staff to get BOTH guys to sign on.

Am I way off here?

Miami shouldn't be recruiting a player if they don't think he can contribute. None of those guys have yet to carve out a role on STs either.

Agree with you 100% on that. I just wonder if they really were left to "reach" for those last few spots during those first recruiting classes. The "bottom half" of this new group better be way more productive.

 

[dk72]

Bad luck. Never the staff's fault.

I never said its "never" the staff's fault. But EJ, Terry and Paul are the staff's fault? Kids got kicked out of school under Butch too you know. In 98/99 we were DESPERAELY short of DTs, and Butch had to boot Adrian Wilson for choking out his girlfriend. All Im saying is that some of this has just been sh8tty luck. At least the LB situation was. Storm Johnson was another one we could have really used this year. What about Ivery?

Some of it was definitely weak recruiting, but I have given them a pass on that first year. Its not all black and white. They have certainly made mistakes. But some of it has been bad luck too.

Part of recruiting is getting guys that aren't knuckleheads and won't get kicked out of school IMO.

But then when we don't recruit the questionable characters, the same haters go off about how we need more goons and how Golden is trying to make it a team of choir boys.

 

[DiegoCane]

Diego. In all fairness I think those guys like Hoilett, O Donnell, etc are kinda just "roster" guys aren't they? I'm sure FSU's "roster" guys are way better but I think in order to call a guy a "dud" he would have had to have high expectations from the start...no?

Also..can I ask a question about Cook & Yearby (since I'm not in So FL). I keep reading that Miami missed on Cook. Does that mean we "settled" for Yearby? Is he the consolation prize? I have to imagine that even though they played together in HS, neither guy wants to be sharing the spotlight at ANY University. This next level is going to be their ticket to the NFL.

My point is that if we wanted and loved Yearby, I think its unrealistic to expect this staff to get BOTH guys to sign on.

Am I way off here?

Miami shouldn't be recruiting a player if they don't think he can contribute. None of those guys have yet to carve out a role on STs either.

Agree with you 100% on that. I just wonder if they really were left to "reach" for those last few spots during those first recruiting classes. The "bottom half" of this new group better be way more productive.

All those guys listed committed early:

Jontavious Carter 3/9/11
Larry Hope 6/1/11
Jake O'Donnell 6/9/11
Dwayne Hoilett 6/12/11
Vernon Davis 6/12/11
D'Mauri Jones 6/20/11
Josh Witt 7/1/11 (I actually liked Witt but concusions ended his career)
Nate Dortch 8/2/11
Danny Dillard 11/6/11

Man that is a lot of misses in one class. Doesn't include Terry, Ivery, Briscoe, Lockhart, Dewey, Thompson who aren't on the team anymore. Blue, Moore, Hamilton, Crow have done little so far as well.

The more I look at the 2012 class, it was kind of a disaster as well.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

The cloud was legit but as always the happy adjusters had no idea what they were doing. Happy adjusters botch every decision, taking everything to ridiculous extreme when a variable changes. In this case the happy adjusters asserted that Miami would clean up in recruiting once the NCAA was out of the way. Heck, Al Golden probably had a big slice of happy adjuster in him. It's a common flaw. I'm sure he's somewhat stunned at the late developments.

One benefit of my Las Vegas decades is you can't be a happy adjuster in the sports betting climate. You'll get chewed up. The sportsbooks love the happy adjuster mentality because that type naturally overreacts to the last thing they saw. They'd make Seattle a massive favorite over anybody tomorrow. Happy adjusters sit in bar stools and exclaim this guy sucks and that guy sucks, as soon as they throw an interception. On Dolphin message boards right now the happy adjusters insist that Tannehill will be a Pro Bowler as soon as his offensive line is competent. Why accept anything at face value when we have the right to fanciful adjustment?

I believe in exactly the opposite, the impact of big picture variables, like Yards Per Pass Attempt Differential numbers dictating playoff outcomes. The system was 7-2 against the spread in the playoffs this season. Anything to avoid subjective decision so I'm not a pathetic happy adjuster. In the case of Canes recruiting, I think the big picture variable is our stadium situation. That sticks every year. IMO, it's very sensible that our recruiting would sag late in the cycle. I expect it to continue. Kids love everything in the early going. They legitimately think they'll stick with Miami. But the doubts begin once those noon games show up, with the nearly non-existent crowds. Then during official visits elsewhere the coaches can point to how sensibly located everything is: You'll live here, practice right over there, eat here, all within sight of the stadium. You'll meet new friends. They can walk a few hundred yards on Saturday to watch you play.

Some kids won't care. Variables like the music department dictate. But a significant sample won't be able to set it aside. When you can choose among the elite football schools, why make concessions in any category?

 

[bomb]

Kids are recruited for 2-3 years. I think a lot of the 2014 kids had so much negativity pumped into then over the last few years it was impossible to start clean with them. And to beat a dead horse, the $$ **** going on has never been worse.

Considering what we've gone through, this could be a very, very good class.

There are NO EXCUSES for 2015. I am very forgiving of some of the recruiting stuff that's gone on. Golden has NEVER, EVER had the luxury of recruiting on an even playing field here. EVER.

2015, that ends. Yeah, we will have a few less schollies, but its time to be what we're going to be under him, recruiting-wise. Its a true litmus test as to if this is going to work, IMO.

 

[trUstno1]

Diego. In all fairness I think those guys like Hoilett, O Donnell, etc are kinda just "roster" guys aren't they? I'm sure FSU's "roster" guys are way better but I think in order to call a guy a "dud" he would have had to have high expectations from the start...no?

Also..can I ask a question about Cook & Yearby (since I'm not in So FL). I keep reading that Miami missed on Cook. Does that mean we "settled" for Yearby? Is he the consolation prize? I have to imagine that even though they played together in HS, neither guy wants to be sharing the spotlight at ANY University. This next level is going to be their ticket to the NFL.

My point is that if we wanted and loved Yearby, I think its unrealistic to expect this staff to get BOTH guys to sign on.

Am I way off here?

Miami shouldn't be recruiting a player if they don't think he can contribute. None of those guys have yet to carve out a role on STs either.

Agree with you 100% on that. I just wonder if they really were left to "reach" for those last few spots during those first recruiting classes. The "bottom half" of this new group better be way more productive.

All those guys listed committed early:

Jontavious Carter 3/9/11
Larry Hope 6/1/11
Jake O'Donnell 6/9/11
Dwayne Hoilett 6/12/11
Vernon Davis 6/12/11
D'Mauri Jones 6/20/11
Josh Witt 7/1/11 (I actually liked Witt but concusions ended his career)
Nate Dortch 8/2/11
Danny Dillard 11/6/11

Man that is a lot of misses in one class. Doesn't include Terry, Ivery, Briscoe, Lockhart, Dewey, Thompson who aren't on the team anymore. Blue, Moore, Hamilton, Crow have done little so far as well.

The more I look at the 2012 class, it was kind of a disaster as well.

My eyes hurt looking at that list

/Thanks, AL

 

[FreePawn]

It was pretty evident that Golden was using the "cloud" to mask his failures. I'm sure it had some affect mainly on the 2012 class, but no where near what he was making it out to be. Now that its gone, its become clear he doesn't have a handle on south florida recruiting.

He's quickly running out of excuses.

 

[mapcane]

I agree with you that the stadium issue is a big one. Some here downplay it. Not me. Any recruit who is legitimately debating leaving, and isn't 100% committed to staying home with his family, is going to be massively unimpressed with our game-day atmosphere, which, against a middling ACC team, is akin to national-level high school game. Now, you can still sell the program successfully if you're going to BCS games and putting players into the league, but that's not happening either. Maybe Sony Michel was on the take; I think he just wanted to play for a top notch SEC school in a true college environment.

btw, this is incorporated into original post. My thesis is essentially that we have a lot going against us (i.e., the stadium, etc.), and that we're not going to turn the corner unless we have a coach who not merely average.

The cloud was legit but as always the happy adjusters had no idea what they were doing. Happy adjusters botch every decision, taking everything to ridiculous extreme when a variable changes. In this case the happy adjusters asserted that Miami would clean up in recruiting once the NCAA was out of the way. Heck, Al Golden probably had a big slice of happy adjuster in him. It's a common flaw. I'm sure he's somewhat stunned at the late developments.

One benefit of my Las Vegas decades is you can't be a happy adjuster in the sports betting climate. You'll get chewed up. The sportsbooks love the happy adjuster mentality because that type naturally overreacts to the last thing they saw. They'd make Seattle a massive favorite over anybody tomorrow. Happy adjusters sit in bar stools and exclaim this guy sucks and that guy sucks, as soon as they throw an interception. On Dolphin message boards right now the happy adjusters insist that Tannehill will be a Pro Bowler as soon as his offensive line is competent. Why accept anything at face value when we have the right to fanciful adjustment?

I believe in exactly the opposite, the impact of big picture variables, like Yards Per Pass Attempt Differential numbers dictating playoff outcomes. The system was 7-2 against the spread in the playoffs this season. Anything to avoid subjective decision so I'm not a pathetic happy adjuster. In the case of Canes recruiting, I think the big picture variable is our stadium situation. That sticks every year. IMO, it's very sensible that our recruiting would sag late in the cycle. I expect it to continue. Kids love everything in the early going. They legitimately think they'll stick with Miami. But the doubts begin once those noon games show up, with the nearly non-existent crowds. Then during official visits elsewhere the coaches can point to how sensibly located everything is: You'll live here, practice right over there, eat here, all within sight of the stadium. You'll meet new friends. They can walk a few hundred yards on Saturday to watch you play.

Some kids won't care. Variables like the music department dictate. But a significant sample won't be able to set it aside. When you can choose among the elite football schools, why make concessions in any category?

 

[MiamiE]

This is a great thread!

 

[AlexCane]

The stadium stinks, but it's an excuse.

Every school has something going against them. We need to accentuate our positives. Unfortunately, when you're not winning and not sending kids to the NFL, these issues become bigger than they should be.