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The Bank (7/2)

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9oh4Cane said:
We’re signing borderline elite OL/DL classes and that raises the floor of the program tremendously.

But at some point you gotta hit on one of these game changing type skill guys. We seem allergic to that.
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I don’t understand it. We had a sick QB and offense last year and we still can’t convert that success at WR recruiting
 
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RVACane said:
Mario has about the same record as Manny in the same amount of time at UM with far more resources. He took Manny’s 7 win players and won 5 that next year.

He’s not a good game coach.

He’s not an above average talent evaluator or player developer.

He’s got Top 5 NIL but not recruiting a Top 5 Class.

He’s not going anywhere because he has eons of time left on a contract funded by his backers so there’s no point in having that conversation for another 3-5 years.

But some of these guys on here think it’s unfair to speak the facts and the truth because he followed Manny who followed Richt who followed Orange Tie Sweathead who followed Radio who followed Clappy.

Meanwhile Rhett Lashlee, who left as OC at the end of the Manny Era, took Garen Justice and Rob Likens with him and got SMU to the ACCCG in year 1 in the ACC.
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Sonny Dykes made a national final. One year doesn’t make or break a coach, good or bad. I like Lashlee a lot but let’s see how he backs up the year he had last year. Mario is building a program that’s clearly trending positively, for now. Gotta continue that this fall, obviously.
 
We have the most unrealistic fanbase in the NCAA. We have sucked for 15 years. We didn't even have a chance with top kids. The last 10 years we would lose recruiting battles regularly to schools like Louisville and Nebraska.

Game away from the playoff last year and likely the most talented team in the ACC going into this year. I'd say its a coin flip with Clemson.

Recruiting class is well positioned going into the season with only two holes that need to be filled. DL and Safety. We are now regularly recruiting against schools like Georgia and Clemson and holding our own. Not winning all of them, but enough of them to compete on talent.

Before you start complaining ask yourself if you'd rather be Miami, Florida or FSU right now and in the next 5-10 years. It's an easy choice for me.
 
OrangeBowlMagic said:
Sonny Dykes made a national final. One year doesn’t make or break a coach, good or bad. I like Lashlee a lot but let’s see how he backs up the year he had last year. Mario is building a program that’s clearly trending positively, for now. Gotta continue that this fall, obviously.
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It doesn’t take 5-6 years at a semi normal place to judge if it’s working out or not. Not in the NIL day where the team is a very strong NIL player like we are. Manny was canned at this point for the same results with less resources. Dan Mullen was canned in this timeframe and he had two NYE6 appearances.

He’s not it and I can judge his tenure at this point. He’s a very good recruiter but he’s not the elite recruiter some on here claim. If he was he’d have top 5 classes with this NIL. He’s also not anything special as an evaluator, developer or game coach. He works hard and cares. That helps but there’s also limits.

Like I’ve said multiple times, he’s gonna be here a while regardless but we’ve reached the point where it’s fair to look at the time, resources and body of work and draw conclusions based on facts.

I know it hurts for some. It hurts the rest of us too, believe me.
 
RVACane said:
It doesn’t take 5-6 years at a semi normal place to judge if it’s working out or not. Not in the NIL day where the team is a very strong NIL player like we are. Manny was canned at this point for the same results with less resources. Dan Mullen was canned in this timeframe and he had two NYE6 appearances.

He’s not it and I can judge his tenure at this point. He’s a very good recruiter but he’s not the elite recruiter some on here claim. If he was he’d have top 5 classes with this NIL. He’s also not anything special as an evaluator, developer or game coach. He works hard and cares. That helps but there’s also limits.
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You think he should be fired?
 
RVACane said:
It doesn’t take 5-6 years at a semi normal place to judge if it’s working out or not. Not in the NIL day where the team is a very strong NIL player like we are. Manny was canned at this point for the same results with less resources. Dan Mullen was canned in this timeframe and he had two NYE6 appearances.

He’s not it and I can judge his tenure at this point. He’s a very good recruiter but he’s not the elite recruiter some on here claim. If he was he’d have top 5 classes with this NIL.
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Do you have the NIL figures? Just curious why internet rumours are being thrown around like gospel. "So and so said we have a top 5 NIL" doesn't make it factual.
 
I’ve heard people say that they didn’t think Calvin Russell was coming because he didn’t seem to have any enthusiasm from Miami but the question after that is does he have any enthusiasm for any school?

he probably isn’t coming, but you know some of these kids really like to play it close to the vets and don’t get overwhelmed with the visit high jumping back-and-forth.
 
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supacane said:
You think he should be fired?
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I don’t think it’s a conversation because he has a guaranteed $40 or 50 million contract out there. It’s why I don’t get worked up on it but I will say the facts and truth as I see them and I’m not sugar coating it or pulling punches.

And I don’t know that this school would hire a better option if they had the chance. I think he’s considered respectable overall and he’s definitely a stabilizing force which has value given where we’ve been for 23 years. He tries and wants to be here in the end.

In this world we are in, no I wouldn’t fire him because there’s no way to do that for years but I don’t think he’s getting us beyond respectable… which is an upgrade. He will ultimately have a better winning percentage than Manny fwiw.

Now, if God forbid something unforeseen happened to him and he wasn’t here, I would seriously shout for a guy with an eye for talent who can coach the modern game. With our NIL, that will go a long way. JMO
 
I think we cannot afford to fire Cristobal. We need stability. I never seen a top program that's been down as long as we have come back quick. Yes top program should not take many years to return to being good, but it's different when they have been terrible for multiple decades imo.

I do have it as a negative to be on his 3rd DC in 4 years. But am glad he moves quickly to get rid of what's not working instead of doubling down.

I do give him a plus for killing the narrative about his offensive preferences and being a QB killer.

It's simple, for this program to take the next step, we must win and win big. Conference titles and produce more high level draft picks. I see Cristobal tenure here like when Dabo went to Clemson. Clemson had developed really bad reputation, even getting nick names like Clemsoning. It took him till the 4th season to win the ACC.

We have enough to win the ACC, he has to get it done. Established OC and one of the best young DC who has experience in the best conference the last 2 seasons. No more excuses.
 
Gables Canes said:
We went from thinking we had a shot at the #1 class to praying we can stay in the top 10.

Botch the finish.
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I didn’t even follow it this cycle. It’s the same song and dance each year and NIL plays a big role. I was hoping we’d land a monster DT and WR, particularly the latter off the back of last season. We just can’t get there.
 
RVACane said:
It doesn’t take 5-6 years at a semi normal place to judge if it’s working out or not. Not in the NIL day where the team is a very strong NIL player like we are. Manny was canned at this point for the same results with less resources. Dan Mullen was canned in this timeframe and he had two NYE6 appearances.

He’s not it and I can judge his tenure at this point. He’s a very good recruiter but he’s not the elite recruiter some on here claim. If he was he’d have top 5 classes with this NIL. He’s also not anything special as an evaluator, developer or game coach. He works hard and cares. That helps but there’s also limits.

Like I’ve said multiple times, he’s gonna be here a while regardless but we’ve reached the point where it’s fair to look at the time, resources and body of work and draw conclusions based on facts.

I know it hurts for some. It hurts the rest of us too, believe me.
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The gators regret firing Mullen and Manny never won 10 games in a season. I agree on the 5-6 season part. But it’s been 3. And each one was pretty significantly better than the one prior. He’s got the program going in the right direction so far. But every “next year” is bigger than the last. Gotta keep that going.
 
I think this is a 7-8 win regular season team. I got hate for this statement like two months ago. I’m sure I’ll see you guys in December on it if I’m wrong when it gets bumped. I’m sticking with that right now.
 
RVACane said:
Mario has about the same record as Manny in the same amount of time at UM with far more resources. He took Manny’s 7 win players and won 5 that next year.
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I won't address everything in your post. But you have to think about what was really happening.

There were guys on Manny's team who lived in BROWARD COUNTY. Manny gave the upperclassmen days off all the time. And these "7 win players" basically gave up in the second half of the next season (2022), losing 4 of the last 6.

I'll give you a different example, one where the answers are already known. Jimmy Johnson took the DEFENDING NATIONAL CHAMPIONS and went 8-5. But we know why. And we know what Jimmy went on to do.

Manny's last team may have had the talent to win 7 games, but they didn't have the heart to change their work habits and get any better. That's a fact, and that's why so many had to leave after 2022.

Nobody is denying the reality of other things you have said. NOBODY had claimed that Mario is some great gameday coach (neither was Butch). And nobody is claiming that Mario is a great developer of players besides linemen. Honestly, that has ALWAYS been the province of the assistant coaches at Miami. I'm the first to admit that Mario has not assembled a coaching tree that comes close to what Howard and JJ and Dennis and Butch did. But let's also not pretend that JJ or Butch were "developing" the offensive skill position players, or that Dennis was "developing" the defensive players.

That is all. You made several relevant points, and you are entitled to your opinions, as yours are very well-founded in observation and analysis and being a student of UM football history.

But whether people like it or not, Mario chose to rebuild from the ground up. He has had two awful setbacks against GaTech that impeded his momentum two years in a row. No denials.

But it wasn't until Butch's 6th season that he broke double-digits in wins. I would have loved to have won 10 or 11 games more quickly, but there was definitely a rot at the tail end of the Erickson era.

I realize times have changed. Maybe no fanbase wants to wait until Year 6 any longer. But good lord, we had 4 great years after 1999. I'd like to see the turnaround last longer than 4 years.

I'm ready for the season to start. **** the Irish. **** the Gators. Let's do this.
 
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OrangeBowlMagic said:
The gators regret firing Mullen and Manny never won 10 games in a season. I agree on the 5-6 season part. But it’s been 3. And each one was pretty significantly better than the one prior. He’s got the program going in the right direction so far. But every “next year” is bigger than the last. Gotta keep that going.
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Ten wins. He couldn’t get to the CFB playoffs let alone the ACCCG with that roster, that schedule and Cam Ward, Martinez, Restrepo and that line. A good coach is in the playoffs last season with all of this.
 
ST26 said:
I would say player development is #1. Key's is committed to LSU because they won 9 games, it's because the staff can point to all the studs they've put in the NFL
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This is the thing people miss. It all works together. The only way to compete is too drastically overpay when you constantly fall on your face and don’t get guys drafted.

Only the oil tycoons really do that. Most of the schools sell results, not hope. Mario can sell, but he isn’t the only coach who can and there are other factors.

When you are constantly in battles with team with titles, playoff appearances, and **** loads of high draft picks for years on end, you can’t afford to end seasons ****ting down your legs on the field. 2024 is costing us. 2025’s end on a whimper cost us. Recruiting and development cost us. We got to put up or shut up.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
I won't address everything in your post. But you have to think about what was really happening.

There were guys on Manny's team who lived in BROWARD COUNTY. Manny gave the upperclassmen days off all the time. And these "7 win players" basically gave up in the second half of the season, losing 4 of the last 6.

I'll give you a different example, one where the answers are already known. Jimmy Johnson took the DEFENDING NATIONAL CHAMPIONS and went 8-5. But we know why. And we know what Jimmy went on to do.

Manny's last team may have had the talent to win 7 games, but they didn't have the heart to change their work habits and get any better. That's a fact, and that's why so many had to leave after 2022.

Nobody is denying the reality of other things you have said. NOBODY had claimed that Mario is some great gameday coach (neither was Butch). And nobody is claiming that Mario is a great developer of players besides linemen. Honestly, that has ALWAYS been the province of the assistant coaches at Miami. I'm the first to admit that Mario has not assembled a coaching tree that comes close to what Howard and JJ and Dennis and Butch did. But let's also not pretend that JJ or Butch were "developing" the offensive skill position players, or that Dennis was "developing" the defensive players.

That is all. You made several relevant points, and you are entitled to your opinions, as yours are very well-founded in observation and analysis and being a student of UM football history.

But whether people like it or not, Mario chose to rebuild from the ground up. He has had two awful setbacks against GaTech that impeded his momentum two years in a row. No denials.

But it wasn't until Butch's 6th season that he broke double-digits in wins. I would have loved to have won 10 or 11 games more quickly, but there was definitely a rot at the tail end of the Erickson era.

I realize times have changed. Maybe no fanbase wants to wait until Year 6 any longer. But good lord, we had 4 great years after 1999. I'd like to see the turnaround last longer than 4 years.

I'm ready for the season to start. **** the Irish. **** the Gators. Let's do this.
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Dennis Erickson was an offensive coordinator genius. He was way ahead of his time. Butch Davis was a defensive coordinator genius, and one of if not the most elite talent evaluators in college football history. He was an elite evaluator of coaching talent too. Mario is an offensive line coach. He’s not comparable to those guys. And Butch, who was not a great game coach - I used to shake my head at times - was better than this guy as a game coach. Butch was a better game coach than Manny and Manny is better on game day than Mario.

By the way, Mario is a very good developer of OL with Alex, but is he really elite at that??? I don’t think so. I don’t see it in his draft history the way it’s made out to be on here. I’ll leave stats to @Rellyrell though.
 
ST26 said:
Until we start developing our talent better, we will not be getting top 4 classes. Some of you fail to comprehend this. However, getting in the 7-11 range is still a strong class and is very doable.
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Until we join the P2 we won't be getting top 4. Our NIL is one of the best. We have a guy who lives and breathes recruiting running things. Miami was the only non P2 to land in the top 15 last year. Let that sink in. These kids are being pushed to P2 for good reason and unless we win a ship or two it won't matter what we do while in the ACC.
 
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