Strength and Conditioning

[Tetragrammaton Cane]

people thinking S&C is an issue are ****ing stupid.

Man lose two games and the idiots really show up here in full force huh.

That’s completely dishonest, in addition to being ****ing stupid, that losing two games have brought out questions of S&C. It’s been talked about on the board all season.

And yes, to make the next level jump everything has to be questioned. This year Miami wins the coastal, next years goal HAS TO BE winning the ACC. And, winning the ACC, in all likelihood, means a CFP berth. To get there there must be an evaluation of everything and everyone and how to continually improve it/them. There is a difference between pinpointing blame to a particular unit and reevaluating the effectiveness of a particular unit.

I made two separate statements. You're being completely dishonest combining them.

You clearly are one of those idiots that think S&C is an issue, so I'm not even going to waste any more of my time.

We’re all idiots...you’re just one of the biggest ones. To categorically eliminate S&C because you think it makes you look clever is embarrassing. Because to not even consider it as an issue, which you and the other mental ostriches have not, means that the S&C is perfectly fine and everyone is at optimal.

I think you believe clown is a higher attainment than idiot so your racing to that level. Say it isn’t so.

 

[Loose Cannon]

"We need to get bigger and faster like those 31 Seniors and 27 Juniors at UGA. Gus Fielder isn't getting it done."

Only a complete ******* ****** cannot spot the irony in that statement.

 

[Tetragrammaton Cane]

"We need to get bigger and faster like those 31 Seniors and 27 Juniors at UGA. Gus Fielder isn't getting it done."

Only a complete ****ing ****** cannot spot the irony in that statement.

I posted those numbers yesterday for context and for those who want to compare UGA and Miami through the Richt connection. The numbers are kind of deceiving because it doesn’t account for Sony Michel backing up Nick Chubb kind of depth. Below is a list non-Richt recruited starters

2017 Georgia Bulldogs Football Depth Chart | Ourlads.com

WR - So
WR - Sr transfer
RG - Freshman
RT - Freshman
QB - Freshman
RS - So transfer
P - Sr transfer
KR - So.

 

[We the Boss]

OP needs 10 minutes in the sand pits to sort himself out.

 

[rok]

Seeing Gauthier get lifted off his feet all year was kind of an indictment.

We passed the test against ND. Wisconsin presents a similar challenge.

 

[Coach Macho]

There's so much more to being physical than just Strength & Conditioning.

Being physical is a mind frame.
If a player doesn't have the attitude, no S&C in the world is gonna turn him into a hitter.

You can't just attribute the outcome of games to S&C, it isn't that simple. You guys really think Notre Dame's S&C is inferior to ours? We pushed their **** in all game.

More talented players will always look stronger and faster on the field. Miami used to beat the **** out of teams full of juice balls back in the day. Yall really think Miami's players were stronger than Nebraska's?

We're not asking to be stronger then Alabama or ND or w.e.. we're asking to be stronger and more physically imposing against Pitt, Syracuse, UNC, FSU, Duke, Virginia..........

We weren't stronger than them this season?

 

[paksat]

There's so much more to being physical than just Strength & Conditioning.

Being physical is a mind frame.
If a player doesn't have the attitude, no S&C in the world is gonna turn him into a hitter.

You can't just attribute the outcome of games to S&C, it isn't that simple. You guys really think Notre Dame's S&C is inferior to ours? We pushed their **** in all game.

More talented players will always look stronger and faster on the field. Miami used to beat the **** out of teams full of juice balls back in the day. Yall really think Miami's players were stronger than Nebraska's?

We're not asking to be stronger then Alabama or ND or w.e.. we're asking to be stronger and more physically imposing against Pitt, Syracuse, UNC, FSU, Duke, Virginia..........

We weren't stronger than them this season?

ask the pitt qb that's still dragging shaq around

 

[Tetragrammaton Cane]

There's so much more to being physical than just Strength & Conditioning.

Being physical is a mind frame.
If a player doesn't have the attitude, no S&C in the world is gonna turn him into a hitter.

You can't just attribute the outcome of games to S&C, it isn't that simple. You guys really think Notre Dame's S&C is inferior to ours? We pushed their **** in all game.

More talented players will always look stronger and faster on the field. Miami used to beat the **** out of teams full of juice balls back in the day. Yall really think Miami's players were stronger than Nebraska's?

We're not asking to be stronger then Alabama or ND or w.e.. we're asking to be stronger and more physically imposing against Pitt, Syracuse, UNC, FSU, Duke, Virginia..........

We weren't stronger than them this season?

We all know, or should know, that just because Miami won doesn’t mean that Miami was stronger. I would answer no to that question. But it also depends on what exactly stronger means to you.

 

[Coach Macho]

I am concerned more with us not being fast enough. We always had short yardage problems because we were not beef cattle, but our speed more than made up for it. The is our dna. More speed, please.

I'd be more willing to agree with this than the S&C narrative.

We are not fast enough as a team IMO.

I mean, we're not Golden-era slow but we're not where we should be yet. That'll come as we add more Richt recruits.

Golden had us trotting out WR/DB corps full of 4.6-4.7 kids.

 

[Tetragrammaton Cane]

I am concerned more with us not being fast enough. We always had short yardage problems because we were not beef cattle, but our speed more than made up for it. The is our dna. More speed, please.

I'd be more willing to agree with this than the S&C narrative.

We are not fast enough as a team IMO.

I mean, we're not Golden-era slow but we're not where we should be yet. That'll come as we add more Richt recruits.

Golden had us trotting out WR/DB corps full of 4.6-4.7 kids.

Speed is a skill and can be trained and is the most critical part of a S&C general preparation phase. I know the saying “you can’t make chicken salad out of...” but if a kid that comes in running 4.6-4.7 and two years later isn’t running 4.4-4.5 the exact place I’m looking is my S&C first.

Now the 4.2-4.3 kids...that’s usually because the kid chose the right parents, but speed is definitely S&C.

 

[Coach Macho]

I am concerned more with us not being fast enough. We always had short yardage problems because we were not beef cattle, but our speed more than made up for it. The is our dna. More speed, please.

I'd be more willing to agree with this than the S&C narrative.

We are not fast enough as a team IMO.

I mean, we're not Golden-era slow but we're not where we should be yet. That'll come as we add more Richt recruits.

Golden had us trotting out WR/DB corps full of 4.6-4.7 kids.

Speed is a skill and can be trained and is the most critical part of a S&C general preparation phase. I know the saying “you can’t make chicken salad out of...” but if a kid that comes in running 4.6-4.7 and two years later isn’t running 4.4-4.5 the exact place I’m looking is my S&C first.

Now the 4.2-4.3 kids...that’s usually because the kid chose the right parents, but speed is definitely S&C.

Nah. Fast kids are fast kids. You're either fast by the time you get to college or you're not.
You recruit speed, you don't develop it.
If you haven't become fast in your 18 years on earth then you're likely never gonna be fast. It's just not in you.

None of the kids I've coached got any more than a tick faster while in college, that's it. They don't go from 4.6's to 4.4's. Those two times aren't even in the same ballpark. Ever watched a 4.4 kid race a 4.6 kid? It ain't even close.

 

[Coach Macho]

You recruit fast kids.

Good S&C lies in the science of putting weight on the kid and keeping him fast.

If a kid comes in weighing 215 running a 4.68 and he leaves your program weighing 240 and running a 4.62 then you did your job.

I got a kid that went to college weighing 185 and running a 4.41 laser.
He left college weighing 206 and running a 4.35 laser.

Got another kid that went to college weighing 165 and running a 4.47 laser.
As a Junior right now he's 188 and last ran a 4.42 laser.



College programs don't use "build a player" from Madden. They can't add 40lbs to everybody's frame + subtract .20 from everybody's forty. Impossible.

 

[Tetragrammaton Cane]

I am concerned more with us not being fast enough. We always had short yardage problems because we were not beef cattle, but our speed more than made up for it. The is our dna. More speed, please.

I'd be more willing to agree with this than the S&C narrative.

We are not fast enough as a team IMO.

I mean, we're not Golden-era slow but we're not where we should be yet. That'll come as we add more Richt recruits.

Golden had us trotting out WR/DB corps full of 4.6-4.7 kids.

Speed is a skill and can be trained and is the most critical part of a S&C general preparation phase. I know the saying “you can’t make chicken salad out of...” but if a kid that comes in running 4.6-4.7 and two years later isn’t running 4.4-4.5 the exact place I’m looking is my S&C first.

Now the 4.2-4.3 kids...that’s usually because the kid chose the right parents, but speed is definitely S&C.

Nah. Fast kids are fast kids. You're either fast by the time you get to college or you're not.
You recruit speed, you don't develop it.
If you haven't become fast in your 18 years on earth then you're likely never gonna be fast. It's just not in you.

None of the kids I've coached got any more than a tick faster while in college, that's it. They don't go from 4.6's to 4.4's. Those two times aren't even in the same ballpark. Ever watched a 4.4 kid race a 4.6 kid? It ain't even close.

That’s normally what people who don’t know how to train speed say. And football coaches and football coach S&C usually don’t. But I can assure you it’s not accurate. There’s a reason why almost every combine participant now utilizes virtually the same starting concepts. They shouldn’t have to go to “guru’s” or track coaches if the S&C really knows what he’s doing.

If you have the right coaching, a receiver or DB should definitely be faster. (I use them because one of the biggest inhibitors to football speed is the requisite weight gain for certain positions) I could cite tons of examples of athletes who ran 4.6-4.8 at 17-18 who were 4.4 at 20/21. Your example of watching a 4.4 race a 4.6 tells me nothing...

If athletes couldn’t improve speed after age 18 the world record in the 100m would be 10.00 and not 9.58.

 

[Coach Macho]

I am concerned more with us not being fast enough. We always had short yardage problems because we were not beef cattle, but our speed more than made up for it. The is our dna. More speed, please.

I'd be more willing to agree with this than the S&C narrative.

We are not fast enough as a team IMO.

I mean, we're not Golden-era slow but we're not where we should be yet. That'll come as we add more Richt recruits.

Golden had us trotting out WR/DB corps full of 4.6-4.7 kids.

Speed is a skill and can be trained and is the most critical part of a S&C general preparation phase. I know the saying “you can’t make chicken salad out of...” but if a kid that comes in running 4.6-4.7 and two years later isn’t running 4.4-4.5 the exact place I’m looking is my S&C first.

Now the 4.2-4.3 kids...that’s usually because the kid chose the right parents, but speed is definitely S&C.

Nah. Fast kids are fast kids. You're either fast by the time you get to college or you're not.
You recruit speed, you don't develop it.
If you haven't become fast in your 18 years on earth then you're likely never gonna be fast. It's just not in you.

None of the kids I've coached got any more than a tick faster while in college, that's it. They don't go from 4.6's to 4.4's. Those two times aren't even in the same ballpark. Ever watched a 4.4 kid race a 4.6 kid? It ain't even close.

That’s normally what people who don’t know how to train speed say. And football coaches and football coach S&C usually don’t. But I can assure you it’s not accurate. There’s a reason why almost every combine participant now utilizes virtually the same starting concepts. They shouldn’t have to go to “guru’s” or track coaches if the S&C really knows what he’s doing.

If you have the right coaching, a receiver or DB should definitely be faster. (I use them because one of the biggest inhibitors to football speed is the requisite weight gain for certain positions) I could cite tons of examples of athletes who ran 4.6-4.8 at 17-18 who were 4.4 at 20/21. Your example of watching a 4.4 race a 4.6 tells me nothing...

If athletes couldn’t improve speed after age 18 the world record in the 100m would be 10.00 and not 9.58.

I didn't say they couldn't improve speed, but it ain't as drastic as 2 tenths.

If you improved .20 then it's because you simply didn't know how to run. (which doesn't even apply to most D1 football players)

You said if your player doesn't improve by 2 tenths then the first place you're looking is your S&C. Well then you'd be firing your S&C coach every year because 99% of college football players only improve a tick.

Every college player adds roughly 15-30 pounds of weight in college. (not this mythical 50lbs of muscle)
You're saying that all these kids should also shave .20 off their forty while adding that amount of weight? Impossible.


Those combine participants you're talking about that go to "gurus"...
They don't even improve their forties that much before the combine. They're lucky if they get a tenth off their time.
My kid went from 4.4 guy to 4.35 guy after training with a "guru" and a bunch of other NFL DB's.

 

[Tetragrammaton Cane]

You recruit fast kids.

Good S&C lies in the science of putting weight on the kid and keeping him fast.

If a kid comes in weighing 215 running a 4.68 and he leaves your program weighing 240 and running a 4.62 then you did your job.

I got a kid that went to college weighing 185 and running a 4.41 laser.
He left college weighing 206 and running a 4.35 laser.

Got another kid that went to college weighing 165 and running a 4.47 laser.
As a Junior right now he's 188 and last ran a 4.42 laser.



College programs don't use "build a player" from Madden. They can't add 40lbs to everybody's frame + subtract .20 from everybody's forty. Impossible.

Of course you recruit speed; the more the better. But it can be developed too.

You’re correct, you must add weight without making them slower and you’ve given some good examples...but there are better examples of athletes who put on weight AND ran faster.

What you mentioned first were guys who came in running 4.6/4.7, not guys coming in running 4.4 and leaving running 4.4. That’s a different kid. We’re talking about the 4.6/4.7, and I might go to 4.8 depending on the position and weight, but a good S&C should absolutely be able to get them down to 4.4/4.5 if they’re a WR or DB.

Not a guarantee; but as I said, if kids have been in your program two years and they’re not getting faster then look at S&C.

 

[Coach Macho]

I am concerned more with us not being fast enough. We always had short yardage problems because we were not beef cattle, but our speed more than made up for it. The is our dna. More speed, please.

I'd be more willing to agree with this than the S&C narrative.

We are not fast enough as a team IMO.

I mean, we're not Golden-era slow but we're not where we should be yet. That'll come as we add more Richt recruits.

Golden had us trotting out WR/DB corps full of 4.6-4.7 kids.

Speed is a skill and can be trained and is the most critical part of a S&C general preparation phase. I know the saying “you can’t make chicken salad out of...” but if a kid that comes in running 4.6-4.7 and two years later isn’t running 4.4-4.5 the exact place I’m looking is my S&C first.

Now the 4.2-4.3 kids...that’s usually because the kid chose the right parents, but speed is definitely S&C.

Nah. Fast kids are fast kids. You're either fast by the time you get to college or you're not.
You recruit speed, you don't develop it.
If you haven't become fast in your 18 years on earth then you're likely never gonna be fast. It's just not in you.

None of the kids I've coached got any more than a tick faster while in college, that's it. They don't go from 4.6's to 4.4's. Those two times aren't even in the same ballpark. Ever watched a 4.4 kid race a 4.6 kid? It ain't even close.

That’s normally what people who don’t know how to train speed say. And football coaches and football coach S&C usually don’t..

So let's say most S&C coaches at major programs don't know how to train speed. (as you put it)

A 240lb Linebacker that leaves Clemson running a 4.6 has done so in spite of his S&C development...and he should actually run a 4.4 at 240lbs?
If so, how come he doesn't run a 4.4 after training daily with a guru leading up the combine?

Do you think a guru could've made Myles Garrett's run faster than a 4.6 at 272lbs?

 

[Tetragrammaton Cane]

I'd be more willing to agree with this than the S&C narrative.

We are not fast enough as a team IMO.

I mean, we're not Golden-era slow but we're not where we should be yet. That'll come as we add more Richt recruits.

Golden had us trotting out WR/DB corps full of 4.6-4.7 kids.

Speed is a skill and can be trained and is the most critical part of a S&C general preparation phase. I know the saying “you can’t make chicken salad out of...” but if a kid that comes in running 4.6-4.7 and two years later isn’t running 4.4-4.5 the exact place I’m looking is my S&C first.

Now the 4.2-4.3 kids...that’s usually because the kid chose the right parents, but speed is definitely S&C.

Nah. Fast kids are fast kids. You're either fast by the time you get to college or you're not.
You recruit speed, you don't develop it.
If you haven't become fast in your 18 years on earth then you're likely never gonna be fast. It's just not in you.

None of the kids I've coached got any more than a tick faster while in college, that's it. They don't go from 4.6's to 4.4's. Those two times aren't even in the same ballpark. Ever watched a 4.4 kid race a 4.6 kid? It ain't even close.

That’s normally what people who don’t know how to train speed say. And football coaches and football coach S&C usually don’t. But I can assure you it’s not accurate. There’s a reason why almost every combine participant now utilizes virtually the same starting concepts. They shouldn’t have to go to “guru’s” or track coaches if the S&C really knows what he’s doing.

If you have the right coaching, a receiver or DB should definitely be faster. (I use them because one of the biggest inhibitors to football speed is the requisite weight gain for certain positions) I could cite tons of examples of athletes who ran 4.6-4.8 at 17-18 who were 4.4 at 20/21. Your example of watching a 4.4 race a 4.6 tells me nothing...

If athletes couldn’t improve speed after age 18 the world record in the 100m would be 10.00 and not 9.58.

I didn't say they couldn't improve speed, but it ain't as drastic as 2 tenths.

If you improved .20 then it's because you simply didn't know how to run. (which doesn't even apply to most D1 football players)

You said if your player doesn't improve by 2 tenths then the first place you're looking is your S&C. Well then you'd be firing your S&C coach every year because 99% of college football players only improve a tick.

Every college player adds roughly 15-30 pounds of weight in college. (not this mythical 50lbs of muscle)
You're saying that all these kids should also shave .20 off their forty while adding that amount of weight? Impossible.


Those combine participants you're talking about that go to "gurus"...
They don't even improve their forties that much before the combine. They're lucky if they get a tenth off their time.
My kid went from 4.4 guy to 4.35 guy after training with a "guru" and a bunch of other NFL DB's.

You’re exaggerating what I said. That’s inaccurate. You mentioned DBs/WR to start so let’s stay with them...but the thesis still holds if kids aren’t getting faster you have to look at S&C. I didn’t say fire anyone, I said look at it.

Separately, on “gurus”...unless they’re 100% of the program from day 1 of the two years, they’re just putting lipstick on a pig. Or to use another metaphor, that cakes already baked.

1. I never said .2 absolute gains, I said 4.4/4.5. It’s a distinction and a difference.
2. A DB/WR who came in running 4.6-4.8 (yes, I expanded my initial criteria) and is still at or under 200lbs should improve to 4.4/4.5
3. If your kids are getting stronger and heavier but NOT getting faster then you have a problem in your S&C.

I hope that helps some.

 

[Coach Macho]

You recruit fast kids.

Good S&C lies in the science of putting weight on the kid and keeping him fast.

If a kid comes in weighing 215 running a 4.68 and he leaves your program weighing 240 and running a 4.62 then you did your job.

I got a kid that went to college weighing 185 and running a 4.41 laser.
He left college weighing 206 and running a 4.35 laser.

Got another kid that went to college weighing 165 and running a 4.47 laser.
As a Junior right now he's 188 and last ran a 4.42 laser.



College programs don't use "build a player" from Madden. They can't add 40lbs to everybody's frame + subtract .20 from everybody's forty. Impossible.

Of course you recruit speed; the more the better. But it can be developed too.

You’re correct, you must add weight without making them slower and you’ve given some good examples...but there are better examples of athletes who put on weight AND ran faster.

What you mentioned first were guys who came in running 4.6/4.7, not guys coming in running 4.4 and leaving running 4.4. That’s a different kid. We’re talking about the 4.6/4.7, and I might go to 4.8 depending on the position and weight, but a good S&C should absolutely be able to get them down to 4.4/4.5 if they’re a WR or DB.

Not a guarantee; but as I said, if kids have been in your program two years and they’re not getting faster then look at S&C.

What D1 programs are recruiting 4.7-4.8 kids at WR/DB?

Wilson and Tabor from UF both were 4.6-4.7 guys in high school. They continued to be 4.6-4.7 guys at UF.
When they were getting ready for the combine, they were working with a speed coach in Colorado. (along with my former kid)
Guess what they ran at the NFL combine? 4.6-4.7
They didn't turn into 4.4 guys.


If it was that easy to shave .20 off a kid's time then more schools would recruit WR/DB's that run 4.6-4.7
They would simply recruit for size/length. If I could shave .20 off of every kids time then every DB I signed would be 6'2"+.
I'd end up with a DB unit full of 6'3" kids who could run 4.4's.

But that doesn't happen, cause it's impossible.
5'9"-5'11" skill players wouldn't even exist if you could legitimately shave .20 off of every kid's time.

 

[Coach Macho]

Ok well thanks for clarifying your .20 statement. That changes some things.

I'm not saying they can't get faster. Most do.

They improve a tick while adding lean muscle mass.

 

[Tetragrammaton Cane]

I'd be more willing to agree with this than the S&C narrative.

We are not fast enough as a team IMO.

I mean, we're not Golden-era slow but we're not where we should be yet. That'll come as we add more Richt recruits.

Golden had us trotting out WR/DB corps full of 4.6-4.7 kids.

Speed is a skill and can be trained and is the most critical part of a S&C general preparation phase. I know the saying “you can’t make chicken salad out of...” but if a kid that comes in running 4.6-4.7 and two years later isn’t running 4.4-4.5 the exact place I’m looking is my S&C first.

Now the 4.2-4.3 kids...that’s usually because the kid chose the right parents, but speed is definitely S&C.

Nah. Fast kids are fast kids. You're either fast by the time you get to college or you're not.
You recruit speed, you don't develop it.
If you haven't become fast in your 18 years on earth then you're likely never gonna be fast. It's just not in you.

None of the kids I've coached got any more than a tick faster while in college, that's it. They don't go from 4.6's to 4.4's. Those two times aren't even in the same ballpark. Ever watched a 4.4 kid race a 4.6 kid? It ain't even close.

That’s normally what people who don’t know how to train speed say. And football coaches and football coach S&C usually don’t..

So let's say most S&C coaches at major programs don't know how to train speed. (as you put it)

A 240lb Linebacker that leaves Clemson running a 4.6 has done so in spite of his S&C development...and he should actually run a 4.4 at 240lbs?
If so, how come he doesn't run a 4.4 after training daily with a guru leading up the combine?

Do you think a guru could've made Myles Garrett's run faster than a 4.6 at 272lbs?

Coach, assume for even a moment, that you’re talking to someone who might know what they’re talking about, just as I’ve given you the same courtesy. I’m not saying that weight has nothing to do with it and I would never. It’s physics. The more weight you carry the more power you have to produce.

1. I think 4.6 at 272 is exceptional.
2. Are you suggesting that Miles walked into aTm at 4.6/272 or are you going to give me a baseline?
3. I never said anyone should run anything at any weight I said they should improve. So your way off base with your example about a 240 lbs LB at the combine when you never showed where he started.

Again, speed development is a part of S&C. I’m shocked you’re actually arguing that it’s not.