State of the Program Post-Shannon vs Post-Golden

[DTP]

There's no comparison. The small amount of quality players Randy left all dipped out of school after Golden's first season. You can claim Morris, Linder, Feliciano, Hurns and Walford as NFL players but those guys were lightly recruited nobodies at the time. If anything, I give Al's staff credit for developing them. Randy hitched his wagon to that one 2008 recruiting class where he gave out scholarships to half the Northwestern varsity just so Macus Fortson would sign here. Players that proved to be productive under Golden like Lamar Miller and Tommy Streeter never sniffed the field while Randy was coaching. The strength program was so laughable that UM players got laughed off the bench press at the NFL combine. Couple all that with the number of high school coaches that Randy burned bridges with that would refuse to allow UM coaches on campus and you've got a huge pile of turds left for the next coach.

Let's put it this way, If Golden and co. would have managed a nine win season in that first year, it would have been hailed as a great success. Will anybody be praising Richt next year if they only win eight or nine games?

 

[MarcoD70]

When we fired Shannon he had Teddy Bridgewater in his pocket and his favorite receiver. We fired Shannon and lost a future NFL quarterback. Meanwhile, we got Kaaya from Golden/Coley and Brad can't seem to win the big game yet. Also, when we fired Shannon almost all of the class of 2008 left early in protest, including Olivier Vernon and others. And, if you really want to be fair, and none of you do it seems, Randy began his tenure with a beaten Kyle and no backup. Randy left Golden with a respectable amount of talent and Al didn't even try to connect with it because these were inner city guys to him that didn't match his PSU South plan. He left the local talent leave. It sent a bad message that doomed his time at UM.

While I agree that Randy inherited a not so great roster (he was part of the staff that created it)
The Bridgewater stuff is revisionist history.
Bridgewater was a shaky commit at best for month's before Shannon got fired.
Chances are Bridgewater would have de-committed regardless of Shannon staying or being fired.
That de-commitment was comming all season long.

and I'd rethink just how long of an NFL career Teddy will have...and I'm not just basing it on yesterday.

 

[LuCane]

We're a Left Tackle, LB depth, dynamic Safety, dynamic RB, solid Corner and solid WR from competing for a playoff spot next year.

We may be able to find partials of some of those on the current roster.

I'd say it's much, much better shape than 2011.

Respectfully disagree.

The squad is an entire OL away from just being CD competitive, let alone ACCCG and beyond. That will likely take 3 years to just turn around the OL while keeping current pieces and recruiting new faces for the other position groups you mentioned.

The OL right now is just not a competitive P5 conference unit...and appears to not even be close.

I think that OL has at least 3 future NFL linemen on it. They just have to be placed in the correct spots and you'll see how much better they look this year in a power running attack.

 

[sebastian91]

This question is a layup. Golden left the program in far better shape....but that's a really low bar from Shannon. Richt has a lot of work to do still. We'll see if he's up to it and can get this thing turned around before the banners start flying again.

 

[LuCane]

We're a Left Tackle, LB depth, dynamic Safety, dynamic RB, solid Corner and solid WR from competing for a playoff spot next year.

We may be able to find partials of some of those on the current roster.

I'd say it's much, much better shape than 2011.

you think the DL is in that good of shape?

It's no comparison we had Olivier Vernon, Marcus Robinson and who else? Forston wasn't that good.
We have the following on the dline next year, possibly more
4star De alquadin Muhammad
5star dt/de Gerald Willis
5star Chad Thomas
4star Anthony moten
4star Kenderick Norton
3star courtel Jenkins
3star Rj mcintosh
4star demetrious Jackson
4star Scott patchan
4star Trent Harris
4star Mike smith
4star pat bethel
4star Joe Jackson

hes not comparing to shannon in that post, but to how close we are to being a playoff team.. I took that as he's saying we have a playoff caliber DL

Yes, I think the DL is close to being in as good of shape as we can hope for...

I see at least 5 likely NFL players on a college DL. I see more who can jump into that discussion. I see 2-3 guys who, with Coach Kul and a new scheme, should finally look like impact players.

 

[Deez Nuts]

When we fired Shannon he had Teddy Bridgewater in his pocket and his favorite receiver. We fired Shannon and lost a future NFL quarterback. Meanwhile, we got Kaaya from Golden/Coley and Brad can't seem to win the big game yet. Also, when we fired Shannon almost all of the class of 2008 left early in protest, including Olivier Vernon and others. And, if you really want to be fair, and none of you do it seems, Randy began his tenure with a beaten Kyle and no backup. Randy left Golden with a respectable amount of talent and Al didn't even try to connect with it because these were inner city guys to him that didn't match his PSU South plan. He left the local talent leave. It sent a bad message that doomed his time at UM.

While I agree that Randy inherited a not so great roster (he was part of the staff that created it)
The Bridgewater stuff is revisionist history.
Bridgewater was a shaky commit at best for month's before Shannon got fired.
Chances are Bridgewater would have de-committed regardless of Shannon staying or being fired.
That de-commitment was comming all season long.

not true, where the **** do you get that from? the only reason Teddy couldve been thought of as a shaky commitment (which is a reach, he was actually a solid commit) was because Shannon's future was uncertain. if Randy stays we still get Teddy. he only decomitted as a direct result of us firing Randy. i believe he's even said it out of his own mouth. i think your the one with the revisionist history.

 

[frostycane]

I agree on the DL. I agree on the overall. I am just saying from a season standpoint. How the season played out, with the back up getting some burn. With our skill talent down. I mean was CB not a glaring issue when AG got here? Is it not an issue right now? So for me, based on an overall look its not much different. There are some real plusses. I just see the lack of development in the team areas. Penalties, bad angles, culture, guys getting pushed around etc. Those things are actually all still there. I think there is still a pretty negative culture there that Richt will have to address head on. I think he will. But its there.

 

[Deez Nuts]

I remember at time he was a wavering commitment before Shannon was fired.
He was taking other visits before Shannon was fired.
He even gave an interview saying he wasn't sure about UM because of the way the fans treated Jacory.
Hey maybe he would have stayed commited...but to say he was a solid commitment before Shannon was fired is not how it was.
It's history now anyway.

because he was taking other visits that means he was wavering? so pretty much every single recruit in the nation is always wavering then..

not sure where yall are getting this stuff from. he decomitted as a direct result of Randy being fired. its pretty obvious with the timing of the decomittment and i believe he made it known at the time.

 

[bshaw28]

Overall very similar.

I'd say the 2011 team in Golden's first year was more talented than what the 2016 team will be.

But the 2011 team was very top heavy with upperclassmen talent, and key players went pro early after 2011 - Miller, Vernon, Streeter, Washington, etc.

The weak 2010 & 2011 recruiting classes meant there wasn't much talent to replace what we lost after 2011.

Richt needs players from the 2014 to step up - Berrios, Thomas, Jackson, Darling, McDermott, etc. - because the 2015 class is going to end up being pretty weak as well.

Adding a couple more big recruits to this 2016 class is critical.

 

[Salt]

Golden was a crappy coach but a much better "organizational" CEO type than Shannon. Shannon might have been a bit better on the X's and O's side but lousy with the details of running a good program. It may be why he has not sniffed a HC, let alone a Coord. job since he left.

But I agree that we are in better overall shape post Golden than post Shannon.

 

[Freddie Bear]

Not even close, Golden has left the U in much better shape talent wise. I also believed he deserved a 5th year because of the crap Shannon left him and the Shapiro scandal and the NCAA investigation that took 3 years to complete and the loss of scholarships. Also agreed he had to go after the Clemson game.

 

[Bigtip]

there are similarities, but I will give Alfruad the slight nod mainly due to the 2016 class vs. the 2011 class.

the 2015 and 2010 classes were both pretty bad (but at least the 2010 class was loaded with OL).

the 2011 team that Alfraud inherited was pretty good actually but the problem was the huge drop off after those upperclassmen left and we were stuck with 2010 and 2011 classes.

we are looking at a pretty big drop off here actually once the 2012 and 2013 classes are gone

 

[Al Foil]

That 2011 team is far superior to what Golden left behind...sorry but it's a fact.

Lamar Miller
Seantrel Henderson
Olivier Vernon
Travis Benjamin
Allen Hurns
Sean Spence
Ray Ray Armstrong
Ramon Buchanon
etc.


Golden mentally destroyed the majority of the team with his BS.

 

[brock]

That 2011 team is far superior to what Golden left behind...sorry but it's a fact.

Lamar Miller
Seantrel Henderson
Olivier Vernon
Travis Benjamin
Allen Hurns
Sean Spence
Ray Ray Armstrong
Ramon Buchanon
etc.


Golden mentally destroyed the majority of the team with his BS.

You are basing that off of what they have done in the pros, if you are talking about how they have progressed and played at Miami then Golden clearly left us off in a better shape than Shannon. Miami has a bunch of proven players at each position with tons of experience. Do you not remember trotting out the wake forest transfer to go along with brandon McGee? Jimmy Gaines, Tyrone cornellious?

 

[Torocane]

I remember at time he was a wavering commitment before Shannon was fired.
He was taking other visits before Shannon was fired.
He even gave an interview saying he wasn't sure about UM because of the way the fans treated Jacory.
Hey maybe he would have stayed commited...but to say he was a solid commitment before Shannon was fired is not how it was.
It's history now anyway.

because he was taking other visits that means he was wavering? so pretty much every single recruit in the nation is always wavering then..

not sure where yall are getting this stuff from. he decomitted as a direct result of Randy being fired. its pretty obvious with the timing of the decomittment and i believe he made it known at the time.

Ok. If that's how you remember it good for you.
Maybe that's how it would have played out if Shannon is not fired.
But he did give an interview at the time before Shannon was fired where he said he was not sure about UM because of how the fans treated Jacory.
There were post on everybody's boards every day about is level of commitment.
Also Strong and Louisville were already a player for him before Shannon got fired.
Anyway that's all the energy I'm willing to spend on this.
Good luck nutz

 

[Mario Hurricanes]

Bridgewater decommitted because he wanted to play for a black head coach, and said so. He was successful at revising history when it was apparent he was going to the NFL - and changed the story to "worried after the Jacory thing".

 

[DTP]

There was a handful of talented players left over from Randy but the overall quality of the roster was garbage. The team was loaded with guys that shouldn't have been offered scholarships or at best should have been career reserves.

The simplest way to decide is to ask yourself: What were my reasonable expectations for the team in 2011 versus 2016. I'd say the general consensus here is that 9-10 wins is pretty reasonable for 2016 given the talent on hand. Can anybody realistically say they expected 9-10 wins in 2011? Even before the Shapiro suspensions?

 

[Deez Nuts]

That 2011 team is far superior to what Golden left behind...sorry but it's a fact.

Lamar Miller
Seantrel Henderson
Olivier Vernon
Travis Benjamin
Allen Hurns
Sean Spence
Ray Ray Armstrong
Ramon Buchanon
etc.


Golden mentally destroyed the majority of the team with his BS.

You are basing that off of what they have done in the pros, if you are talking about how they have progressed and played at Miami then Golden clearly left us off in a better shape than Shannon. Miami has a bunch of proven players at each position with tons of experience. Do you not remember trotting out the wake forest transfer to go along with brandon McGee? Jimmy Gaines, Tyrone cornellious?

that was golden's decision to push all those players off the team and take coal shovelers and transfers that fit his mold. has nothing to do with the pros. lamar miller, travis benjamin, olivier vernon, spence etc were all balling in college. idk what you are remembering, they were obviously very talented alot of them part of that #1 recruiting class. the suspensions and failure to meet expectations as a team is probably clouding your memory.

 

[Deez Nuts]

There was a handful of talented players left over from Randy but the overall quality of the roster was garbage. The team was loaded with guys that shouldn't have been offered scholarships or at best should have been career reserves.

The simplest way to decide is to ask yourself: What were my reasonable expectations for the team in 2011 versus 2016. I'd say the general consensus here is that 9-10 wins is pretty reasonable for 2016 given the talent on hand. Can anybody realistically say they expected 9-10 wins in 2011? Even before the Shapiro suspensions?

only a handful? really? you want to count how many of those players are currently in the pros? compare that to what golden has left us. only artie and maybe corn stand out as nfl ready talents.

 

[Deez Nuts]

I remember at time he was a wavering commitment before Shannon was fired.
He was taking other visits before Shannon was fired.
He even gave an interview saying he wasn't sure about UM because of the way the fans treated Jacory.
Hey maybe he would have stayed commited...but to say he was a solid commitment before Shannon was fired is not how it was.
It's history now anyway.

because he was taking other visits that means he was wavering? so pretty much every single recruit in the nation is always wavering then..

not sure where yall are getting this stuff from. he decomitted as a direct result of Randy being fired. its pretty obvious with the timing of the decomittment and i believe he made it known at the time.

Ok. If that's how you remember it good for you.
Maybe that's how it would have played out if Shannon is not fired.
But he did give an interview at the time before Shannon was fired where he said he was not sure about UM because of how the fans treated Jacory.
There were post on everybody's boards every day about is level of commitment.
Also Strong and Louisville were already a player for him before Shannon got fired.
Anyway that's all the energy I'm willing to spend on this.
Good luck nutz

ok dude his commitment was obviously tied to Randy being the HC. its not about how i remember, its about how it was. soon as Randy was gone so was Teddy. just bc he made a comment on jacory's treatment in an interview doesnt mean he was shaky. louisville was always going to be his 2nd choice if we fired randy, no surprise there. but randy was his first choice