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South Florida recruiting myth.

bobbydigius said:
Hstokes1447 said:
Lets look at the top 5 rated recruits from Dade County between 2012-2014

Dade County 2012 top 5 rated recruits
  1. RB Duke Johnson committed to Miami
  2. WR Amari Cooper committed to Alabama
  3. DB Deon Bush committed to Miami
  4. DB Amos Leggett committed to Marshall (was committed to Miami but had to decommit due to grades)
  5. LB Keith Brown committed to Louisville (was committed to Miami but decommitted because Miami would not give his brother a scholarship)

Dade County 2013 top 5 rated recruits
  1. LB Matthew Thomas committed to FSU
  2. OL Denver Kirkland committed to Arkansas
  3. DB Artie Burns committed to Miami
    [*]DB Jamal Carter committed to Miami
  4. DB Lamar Robbins committed to South Florida (was never offered by Miami)

Dade County 2014 top 5 rated recruits
  1. RB Dalvin Cook committed to FSU
  2. DE Chad Thomas committed to Miami
  3. WR Ermon Lane committed to FSU
  4. DT Travonte Valentine committed to LSU (was committed to Miami but decommitted for unknown reasons. He was also rumored to have grade issues)
  5. RB Joseph Yearby committed to Miami

So of the top 15 players in Dade County over the past 3 years 6 of them are currently on Miami's roster. That will give this staff a 40% success rate with the elite Dade County kids. Now if we use Joecanes math Amos Leggett committed but had grade issues, so that moves the number to 7. Also Lamar Robbins was never offered so the total number moves down to 14, putting this staff at 7 of 14 committed.

Joecane according to your math this staff has indeed signed 50% of the elite kids from Dade County.

Now my next question for you is, do you believe that a team full of elite South Florida sophomores and freshmen would have given this team a better record in 2013? I personally don't think so, a team that young will always have growing pains and lose games simply because of inexperience.

Look at the 1999 Team, by all accounts Butch Davis is the most elite recruiter and developer of talent that Miami has ever had.
This team had a few elite JR's
  1. WR Reggie Wayne
  2. WR Santana Moss
  3. TE Bubba Franks
  4. DT Damione Lewis
  5. LB Dan Morgan
  6. LB Nate Webster
  7. S Al Blades

Despite that level of talent, the most elite players were still Freshmen and Sophomores. That team went 9-4 losing to Penn State, FSU, East Carolina (this is much worst than losing to Duke) and a blow out lost to Virginia Tech.
Click to expand...

Your lists are actually terrible. Where is Tracy Howard in 2012, Coley and Collins in 2013? Sony Michel and T Rudolph in 2014? The part that has hurt us recently was there has been a terrible trend. We got everyone in 2012, but it wasnt that strong of a year anyway by Dade standards. In 2013 the problems really started when we lost Collins plus Kirkland and Thomas from a major feeder school. In 2014 we missed on even more guys, and this year we have the situation with Monarch kids. There has been 4 elite backs, Ill even include Yearby even though I dont consider him elite, very very good yes but not elite. We got Yearby and missed on the other 3. At WR the top notch WR that last two years were Coley, Lane and Rudolph, we went 1-3 and thank god for Bennett. DTs the position of major need, a position that S Florida doesnt really produce that much, well there were 4 above average talents in the last 2 years, Clark, Bryant, Moten and Vaentine. We went 1/4 and that doesnt include Bostwick which isnt really S Florida who was supposed to be a lock. Now yes we have had hits, Darling and KC at OL is one example, but we are missing more than we should....
Click to expand...

He Stated from DADE COUNTY all the players you listed in the beginning are all from Ft Lauderdale AKA Broward.
 
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why is anyone confusing schnellenberger's "state of Miami" for "South Florida"? it doesn't refer to the same thing.
 
I'm dying at ol dude in that lil league video caught with his hands all in the cookie jar right after lying.

He was speechlees. He fell right in their trap
 
bobbydigius said:
Hstokes1447 said:
Lets look at the top 5 rated recruits from Dade County between 2012-2014

Dade County 2012 top 5 rated recruits
  1. RB Duke Johnson committed to Miami
  2. WR Amari Cooper committed to Alabama
  3. DB Deon Bush committed to Miami
  4. DB Amos Leggett committed to Marshall (was committed to Miami but had to decommit due to grades)
  5. LB Keith Brown committed to Louisville (was committed to Miami but decommitted because Miami would not give his brother a scholarship)

Dade County 2013 top 5 rated recruits
  1. LB Matthew Thomas committed to FSU
  2. OL Denver Kirkland committed to Arkansas
  3. DB Artie Burns committed to Miami
    [*]DB Jamal Carter committed to Miami
  4. DB Lamar Robbins committed to South Florida (was never offered by Miami)

Dade County 2014 top 5 rated recruits
  1. RB Dalvin Cook committed to FSU
  2. DE Chad Thomas committed to Miami
  3. WR Ermon Lane committed to FSU
  4. DT Travonte Valentine committed to LSU (was committed to Miami but decommitted for unknown reasons. He was also rumored to have grade issues)
  5. RB Joseph Yearby committed to Miami

So of the top 15 players in Dade County over the past 3 years 6 of them are currently on Miami's roster. That will give this staff a 40% success rate with the elite Dade County kids. Now if we use Joecanes math Amos Leggett committed but had grade issues, so that moves the number to 7. Also Lamar Robbins was never offered so the total number moves down to 14, putting this staff at 7 of 14 committed.

Joecane according to your math this staff has indeed signed 50% of the elite kids from Dade County.

Now my next question for you is, do you believe that a team full of elite South Florida sophomores and freshmen would have given this team a better record in 2013? I personally don't think so, a team that young will always have growing pains and lose games simply because of inexperience.

Look at the 1999 Team, by all accounts Butch Davis is the most elite recruiter and developer of talent that Miami has ever had.
This team had a few elite JR's
  1. WR Reggie Wayne
  2. WR Santana Moss
  3. TE Bubba Franks
  4. DT Damione Lewis
  5. LB Dan Morgan
  6. LB Nate Webster
  7. S Al Blades

Despite that level of talent, the most elite players were still Freshmen and Sophomores. That team went 9-4 losing to Penn State, FSU, East Carolina (this is much worst than losing to Duke) and a blow out lost to Virginia Tech.
Click to expand...

Your lists are actually terrible. Where is Tracy Howard in 2012, Coley and Collins in 2013? Sony Michel and T Rudolph in 2014? The part that has hurt us recently was there has been a terrible trend. We got everyone in 2012, but it wasnt that strong of a year anyway by Dade standards. In 2013 the problems really started when we lost Collins plus Kirkland and Thomas from a major feeder school. In 2014 we missed on even more guys, and this year we have the situation with Monarch kids. There has been 4 elite backs, Ill even include Yearby even though I dont consider him elite, very very good yes but not elite. We got Yearby and missed on the other 3. At WR the top notch WR that last two years were Coley, Lane and Rudolph, we went 1-3 and thank god for Bennett. DTs the position of major need, a position that S Florida doesnt really produce that much, well there were 4 above average talents in the last 2 years, Clark, Bryant, Moten and Vaentine. We went 1/4 and that doesnt include Bostwick which isnt really S Florida who was supposed to be a lock. Now yes we have had hits, Darling and KC at OL is one example, but we are missing more than we should....
Click to expand...

If you read the post I said the top guys from DADE County. Tracy, Coley, Collins, Michel, where all Broward County kids and Rudolph is from Palm Beach.

You guys continue to push the fact that this staff has missed on elite players in South Florida when that very statement is my argument. My argument is Every coach in the history of this program has missed on several elite South Florida kids. Butch Davis (who everyone wanted fired. Lets not forget the "Fire Butch Davis banner" that was flown over the Orange Bowl) is the ONLY COACH to ever consistently land the majority of the South Florida stud.

The numbers don't lie. I understand that you guys might hate Al Golden and want to see Miami dominate again, but if you just look at the numbers his percentage of South Florida elite commitments is right on par with Howard, Jimmy, and Dennis.
 
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Howard Schnellenbeger 1980-1983
  • 3 of 8 signing Dade County top 100 of All time.

Jimmy Johnson 1984-1988
  • 4 of 10 signing Dade County top 100 of All time.

Dennis Erickson 1989-1994
  • 4 of 12 signing Dade County top 100 of All time.

Butch Davis 1995-2000
  • 9 of 25 signing Dade County top 100 of All time.

Larry Coker 2001-2003(His number would be different but this only covers 2001-2003)
  • 3 of 6 signing Dade County top 100 of All time.
 
Hstokes1447 said:
bobbydigius said:
Hstokes1447 said:
Lets look at the top 5 rated recruits from Dade County between 2012-2014

Dade County 2012 top 5 rated recruits
  1. RB Duke Johnson committed to Miami
  2. WR Amari Cooper committed to Alabama
  3. DB Deon Bush committed to Miami
  4. DB Amos Leggett committed to Marshall (was committed to Miami but had to decommit due to grades)
  5. LB Keith Brown committed to Louisville (was committed to Miami but decommitted because Miami would not give his brother a scholarship)

Dade County 2013 top 5 rated recruits
  1. LB Matthew Thomas committed to FSU
  2. OL Denver Kirkland committed to Arkansas
  3. DB Artie Burns committed to Miami
    [*]DB Jamal Carter committed to Miami
  4. DB Lamar Robbins committed to South Florida (was never offered by Miami)

Dade County 2014 top 5 rated recruits
  1. RB Dalvin Cook committed to FSU
  2. DE Chad Thomas committed to Miami
  3. WR Ermon Lane committed to FSU
  4. DT Travonte Valentine committed to LSU (was committed to Miami but decommitted for unknown reasons. He was also rumored to have grade issues)
  5. RB Joseph Yearby committed to Miami

So of the top 15 players in Dade County over the past 3 years 6 of them are currently on Miami's roster. That will give this staff a 40% success rate with the elite Dade County kids. Now if we use Joecanes math Amos Leggett committed but had grade issues, so that moves the number to 7. Also Lamar Robbins was never offered so the total number moves down to 14, putting this staff at 7 of 14 committed.

Joecane according to your math this staff has indeed signed 50% of the elite kids from Dade County.

Now my next question for you is, do you believe that a team full of elite South Florida sophomores and freshmen would have given this team a better record in 2013? I personally don't think so, a team that young will always have growing pains and lose games simply because of inexperience.

Look at the 1999 Team, by all accounts Butch Davis is the most elite recruiter and developer of talent that Miami has ever had.
This team had a few elite JR's
  1. WR Reggie Wayne
  2. WR Santana Moss
  3. TE Bubba Franks
  4. DT Damione Lewis
  5. LB Dan Morgan
  6. LB Nate Webster
  7. S Al Blades

Despite that level of talent, the most elite players were still Freshmen and Sophomores. That team went 9-4 losing to Penn State, FSU, East Carolina (this is much worst than losing to Duke) and a blow out lost to Virginia Tech.
Click to expand...

Your lists are actually terrible. Where is Tracy Howard in 2012, Coley and Collins in 2013? Sony Michel and T Rudolph in 2014? The part that has hurt us recently was there has been a terrible trend. We got everyone in 2012, but it wasnt that strong of a year anyway by Dade standards. In 2013 the problems really started when we lost Collins plus Kirkland and Thomas from a major feeder school. In 2014 we missed on even more guys, and this year we have the situation with Monarch kids. There has been 4 elite backs, Ill even include Yearby even though I dont consider him elite, very very good yes but not elite. We got Yearby and missed on the other 3. At WR the top notch WR that last two years were Coley, Lane and Rudolph, we went 1-3 and thank god for Bennett. DTs the position of major need, a position that S Florida doesnt really produce that much, well there were 4 above average talents in the last 2 years, Clark, Bryant, Moten and Vaentine. We went 1/4 and that doesnt include Bostwick which isnt really S Florida who was supposed to be a lock. Now yes we have had hits, Darling and KC at OL is one example, but we are missing more than we should....
Click to expand...

If you read the post I said the top guys from DADE County. Tracy, Coley, Collins, Michel, where all Broward County kids and Rudolph is from Palm Beach.

You guys continue to push the fact that this staff has missed on elite players in South Florida when that very statement is my argument. My argument is Every coach in the history of this program has missed on several elite South Florida kids. Butch Davis (who everyone wanted fired. Lets not forget the "Fire Butch Davis banner" that was flown over the Orange Bowl) is the ONLY COACH to ever consistently land the majority of the South Florida stud.

The numbers don't lie. I understand that you guys might hate Al Golden and want to see Miami dominate again, but if you just look at the numbers his percentage of South Florida elite commitments is right on par with Howard, Jimmy, and Dennis.
Click to expand...

My fault on missing the Dade part in my post. I agree with what you are saying, in that there is a myth that we have always gotten everybody in S Fl, but what I dont agree with is that in the last two classes that Al has batted at the same rate as Jimmy, Butch and Dennis. First off Dennis recruited very well nationally as during his time the Miami brand was at a ridiculous high, even though in the long run there were mixed results in that. The trend Im talking about is that if you take away 2012, where we in fact did very well in S FL, our hit rate is below what Jimmy and Butch had. I outlined that in my post. Another thing that makes this hit/miss percentage even more important with Al is that after three years he has proven that he is nowhere in the same league with Jimmy as a game day coach and nowhere in the same league with Butch in terms of evals. It makes it even more important that we hit on kids that are going to viewed as more sure things because our evals on unheralded kids have not been good.
 
Hstokes1447 said:
Florida State coach Bobby Bowden looks like this year`s Pied Piper of college football recruiting.

Bowden is playing a mellifluous tune that has many of the nation`s top high school prospects following him to Tallahassee. It`s national letter-of-intent signing day today, and Bowden is expected to claim more blue chippers than any of his colleagues, including Notre Dame`s Lou Holtz and Miami`s Jimmy Johnson.




At least that`s what one respected recruiting analyst says.

``FSU recruiting is spreading like wild fire,`` analyst Max Emfinger said. ``Some of the other experts have already picked Notre Dame as this year`s best class. I think FSU`s class is a little bit better.``

FSU, Emfinger projects, will claim seven of his top-rated players. Notre Dame should get three.

The Hurricanes were pleased to learn Tuesday that one of four USA Today All- Americans they are heavily recruiting has committed to UM. Receiver Kevin Williams of Dallas is bound for Miami. Still, UM is eagerly awaiting the decisions of three others, players who could vault them into Emfinger`s Top 10.

It shapes up as a typical Johnson class, featuring a nucleus of South Florida players rounded out by national signings and a fair share of ``sleepers.``

The Florida Gators are not impressing the experts and have lost out in many of the battles for the state`s top players. Still, the Gators have commitments from some national prospects that they hope will compensate for their smaller take of Florida blue chippers.

Here`s how the recruiting specifics shape up:

FSU: It`s a recruiting class that could rival FSU`s banner `85 class, one headed by Deion Sanders, Sammie Smith and Pat Tomberlin, a class that helped the Seminoles to a 22-2 record over the last two seasons.

The Seminoles expect to sign a particularly impressive cast of skill players, including quarterback Kenny Felder of Niceville, Emfinger`s No. 3-rated passer who threw for more than 3,500 career yards.

Other blue-chip skill players committed: Eric Turral of Tallahassee Godby, Emfinger`s No. 2 inside receiver, who set a state record for kick-return touchdowns; Clyde Allen of Fort Myers, Emfinger`s No. 4 speed running back, who averaged 7.6 yards per carry in his career; Dominique Ross of Jacksonville Raines, Emfinger`s No. 7 speed back and Maurice Pinckney of Stranahan, Emfinger`s No. 6 power back.

Defensively, FSU came away with three USA Today first-team All-Americans: linebacker Sterling Palmer of St. Thomas, end Eric Shaw of Pensacola and safety John Davis of Pahokee.

MIAMI: Williams, who averaged 25 yards per catch and 10 yards per run for Roosevelt High in Dallas, was a major commitment for UM, their second outstanding Texas skill player. Houston`s offensive Player of the Year, running back Martin Patton, committed in January.



The difference between an outstanding class and a very good class rests on the decisions of three USA Today All-Americans: first-team guard Rudy Barber of Carol City, first-team linebacker Jesse Armstead of Dallas and second-team receiver Horace Copeland of Orlando.

Still, ``blue chip`` accolades haven`t meant a lot to UM in recent years. The `Canes have had much success with sleepers like Steve Walsh, Russell Maryland, Rob Chudzinski and Greg Mark. UM hasn`t overly impressed recruiting experts in the last four years yet are 44-4 in that time with a national championship.
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LOL so many highly rated busts in that article. That's why I laugh at the star whores. If you want to let a $32k a year internet writer who can't catch on scouting for an NAIA school judge whether or not you get good players, then I don't know what to say.
 
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Hstokes1447 said:
Lets look at the top 5 rated recruits from Dade County between 2012-2014

Dade County 2012 top 5 rated recruits
  1. RB Duke Johnson committed to Miami
  2. WR Amari Cooper committed to Alabama
  3. DB Deon Bush committed to Miami
  4. DB Amos Leggett committed to Marshall (was committed to Miami but had to decommit due to grades)
  5. LB Keith Brown committed to Louisville (was committed to Miami but decommitted because Miami would not give his brother a scholarship)

Dade County 2013 top 5 rated recruits
  1. LB Matthew Thomas committed to FSU
  2. OL Denver Kirkland committed to Arkansas
  3. DB Artie Burns committed to Miami
    [*]DB Jamal Carter committed to Miami
  4. DB Lamar Robbins committed to South Florida (was never offered by Miami)

Dade County 2014 top 5 rated recruits
  1. RB Dalvin Cook committed to FSU
  2. DE Chad Thomas committed to Miami
  3. WR Ermon Lane committed to FSU
  4. DT Travonte Valentine committed to LSU (was committed to Miami but decommitted for unknown reasons. He was also rumored to have grade issues)
  5. RB Joseph Yearby committed to Miami

So of the top 15 players in Dade County over the past 3 years 6 of them are currently on Miami's roster. That will give this staff a 40% success rate with the elite Dade County kids. Now if we use Joecanes math Amos Leggett committed but had grade issues, so that moves the number to 7. Also Lamar Robbins was never offered so the total number moves down to 14, putting this staff at 7 of 14 committed.

Joecane according to your math this staff has indeed signed 50% of the elite kids from Dade County.

Now my next question for you is, do you believe that a team full of elite South Florida sophomores and freshmen would have given this team a better record in 2013? I personally don't think so, a team that young will always have growing pains and lose games simply because of inexperience.

Look at the 1999 Team, by all accounts Butch Davis is the most elite recruiter and developer of talent that Miami has ever had.
This team had a few elite JR's
  1. WR Reggie Wayne
  2. WR Santana Moss
  3. TE Bubba Franks
  4. DT Damione Lewis
  5. LB Dan Morgan
  6. LB Nate Webster
  7. S Al Blades

Despite that level of talent, the most elite players were still Freshmen and Sophomores. That team went 9-4 losing to Penn State, FSU, East Carolina (this is much worst than losing to Duke) and a blow out lost to Virginia Tech.
Click to expand...

LMAO, just because you say it doesn't make it so... What is your basis to say East Carolina is a worse loss than Duke?
 
Hstokes1447 said:
Lets look at the top 5 rated recruits from Dade County between 2012-2014

Dade County 2012 top 5 rated recruits
  1. RB Duke Johnson committed to Miami
  2. WR Amari Cooper committed to Alabama
  3. DB Deon Bush committed to Miami
  4. DB Amos Leggett committed to Marshall (was committed to Miami but had to decommit due to grades)
  5. LB Keith Brown committed to Louisville (was committed to Miami but decommitted because Miami would not give his brother a scholarship)

Dade County 2013 top 5 rated recruits
  1. LB Matthew Thomas committed to FSU
  2. OL Denver Kirkland committed to Arkansas
  3. DB Artie Burns committed to Miami
  4. DB Jamal Carter committed to Miami
  5. DB Lamar Robbins committed to South Florida (was never offered by Miami)

Dade County 2014 top 5 rated recruits
  1. RB Dalvin Cook committed to FSU
  2. DE Chad Thomas committed to Miami
  3. WR Ermon Lane committed to FSU
  4. DT Travonte Valentine committed to LSU (was committed to Miami but decommitted for unknown reasons. He was also rumored to have grade issues)
  5. RB Joseph Yearby committed to Miami

So of the top 15 players in Dade County over the past 3 years 6 of them are currently on Miami's roster. That will give this staff a 40% success rate with the elite Dade County kids. Now if we use Joecanes math Amos Leggett committed but had grade issues, so that moves the number to 7. Also Lamar Robbins was never offered so the total number moves down to 14, putting this staff at 7 of 14 committed.

Joecane according to your math this staff has indeed signed 50% of the elite kids from Dade County.

Now my next question for you is, do you believe that a team full of elite South Florida sophomores and freshmen would have given this team a better record in 2013? I personally don't think so, a team that young will always have growing pains and lose games simply because of inexperience.

Look at the 1999 Team, by all accounts Butch Davis is the most elite recruiter and developer of talent that Miami has ever had.
This team had a few elite JR's
  1. WR Reggie Wayne
  2. WR Santana Moss
  3. TE Bubba Franks
  4. DT Damione Lewis
  5. LB Dan Morgan
  6. LB Nate Webster
  7. S Al Blades

Despite that level of talent, the most elite players were still Freshmen and Sophomores. That team went 9-4 losing to Penn State, FSU, East Carolina (this is much worst than losing to Duke) and a blow out lost to Virginia Tech.
Click to expand...

Arbitrarily only looking at the top 5 every year isn't indicative of elite. Robbins, Brown, Leggett, Carter are not in the same class of recruit as 2014's entire top 5. That's why in my post I said success varies year to year depending on the class and you can't just arbitrarily select a number to determine success.

And no it's not worse than losing to Duke. Ever hear of a guy named David Garrard?

My thread gets deleted but this tripe is celebrated on this board.
 
Last edited:
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Joecane said:
Hstokes1447 said:
Lets look at the top 5 rated recruits from Dade County between 2012-2014

Dade County 2012 top 5 rated recruits
  1. RB Duke Johnson committed to Miami
  2. WR Amari Cooper committed to Alabama
  3. DB Deon Bush committed to Miami
  4. DB Amos Leggett committed to Marshall (was committed to Miami but had to decommit due to grades)
  5. LB Keith Brown committed to Louisville (was committed to Miami but decommitted because Miami would not give his brother a scholarship)

Dade County 2013 top 5 rated recruits
  1. LB Matthew Thomas committed to FSU
  2. OL Denver Kirkland committed to Arkansas
  3. DB Artie Burns committed to Miami
  4. DB Jamal Carter committed to Miami
  5. DB Lamar Robbins committed to South Florida (was never offered by Miami)

Dade County 2014 top 5 rated recruits
  1. RB Dalvin Cook committed to FSU
  2. DE Chad Thomas committed to Miami
  3. WR Ermon Lane committed to FSU
  4. DT Travonte Valentine committed to LSU (was committed to Miami but decommitted for unknown reasons. He was also rumored to have grade issues)
  5. RB Joseph Yearby committed to Miami

So of the top 15 players in Dade County over the past 3 years 6 of them are currently on Miami's roster. That will give this staff a 40% success rate with the elite Dade County kids. Now if we use Joecanes math Amos Leggett committed but had grade issues, so that moves the number to 7. Also Lamar Robbins was never offered so the total number moves down to 14, putting this staff at 7 of 14 committed.

Joecane according to your math this staff has indeed signed 50% of the elite kids from Dade County.

Now my next question for you is, do you believe that a team full of elite South Florida sophomores and freshmen would have given this team a better record in 2013? I personally don't think so, a team that young will always have growing pains and lose games simply because of inexperience.

Look at the 1999 Team, by all accounts Butch Davis is the most elite recruiter and developer of talent that Miami has ever had.
This team had a few elite JR's
  1. WR Reggie Wayne
  2. WR Santana Moss
  3. TE Bubba Franks
  4. DT Damione Lewis
  5. LB Dan Morgan
  6. LB Nate Webster
  7. S Al Blades

Despite that level of talent, the most elite players were still Freshmen and Sophomores. That team went 9-4 losing to Penn State, FSU, East Carolina (this is much worst than losing to Duke) and a blow out lost to Virginia Tech.
Click to expand...

Arbitrarily only looking at the top 5 every year isn't indicative of elite. Robbins, Brown, Leggett, Carter are not in the same class of recruit as 2014's entire top 5. That's why in my post I said success varies year to year depending on the class and you can just arbitrarily select a number to determine success.

And no it's not worse than losing to Duke. Ever hear of a guy named David Garrard?

My thread gets deleted but this tripe is celebrated on this board.
Click to expand...

Dude do you realize that I actually agree with you and everyone else here who say this staff is not bringing in the enough of the South Florida elite? The point of this post is to only shed some light on the fact that EVERY COACH IN THE HISTORY OF THIS PROGRAM has missed on elite South Florida talent at a higher rate than anyone here would like.

The same year Dutch signed Andre Johnson he missed on top rated Anquan Boldin. Jimmy Johnson missed on Derrick Thomas, what I would consider the same level of a miss as Al missing on Matthew Thomas. Between 1984-1985 there were 5 kids who eventually made the top 100 All Time Dade County team, so it is safe to say that these were elite Dade County football players. Of those 5 only 1 of them committed to Jimmy Johnson and this was coming off of multiple championships.

The truth of the matter is South Florida is not a area that can be locked down. If Jimmy couldn't do it with multiple rings how could you expect anyone to do it
 
Joecane said:
Hstokes1447 said:
Lets look at the top 5 rated recruits from Dade County between 2012-2014

Dade County 2012 top 5 rated recruits
  1. RB Duke Johnson committed to Miami
  2. WR Amari Cooper committed to Alabama
  3. DB Deon Bush committed to Miami
  4. DB Amos Leggett committed to Marshall (was committed to Miami but had to decommit due to grades)
  5. LB Keith Brown committed to Louisville (was committed to Miami but decommitted because Miami would not give his brother a scholarship)

Dade County 2013 top 5 rated recruits
  1. LB Matthew Thomas committed to FSU
  2. OL Denver Kirkland committed to Arkansas
  3. DB Artie Burns committed to Miami
  4. DB Jamal Carter committed to Miami
  5. DB Lamar Robbins committed to South Florida (was never offered by Miami)

Dade County 2014 top 5 rated recruits
  1. RB Dalvin Cook committed to FSU
  2. DE Chad Thomas committed to Miami
  3. WR Ermon Lane committed to FSU
  4. DT Travonte Valentine committed to LSU (was committed to Miami but decommitted for unknown reasons. He was also rumored to have grade issues)
  5. RB Joseph Yearby committed to Miami

So of the top 15 players in Dade County over the past 3 years 6 of them are currently on Miami's roster. That will give this staff a 40% success rate with the elite Dade County kids. Now if we use Joecanes math Amos Leggett committed but had grade issues, so that moves the number to 7. Also Lamar Robbins was never offered so the total number moves down to 14, putting this staff at 7 of 14 committed.

Joecane according to your math this staff has indeed signed 50% of the elite kids from Dade County.

Now my next question for you is, do you believe that a team full of elite South Florida sophomores and freshmen would have given this team a better record in 2013? I personally don't think so, a team that young will always have growing pains and lose games simply because of inexperience.

Look at the 1999 Team, by all accounts Butch Davis is the most elite recruiter and developer of talent that Miami has ever had.
This team had a few elite JR's
  1. WR Reggie Wayne
  2. WR Santana Moss
  3. TE Bubba Franks
  4. DT Damione Lewis
  5. LB Dan Morgan
  6. LB Nate Webster
  7. S Al Blades

Despite that level of talent, the most elite players were still Freshmen and Sophomores. That team went 9-4 losing to Penn State, FSU, East Carolina (this is much worst than losing to Duke) and a blow out lost to Virginia Tech.
Click to expand...

Arbitrarily only looking at the top 5 every year isn't indicative of elite. Robbins, Brown, Leggett, Carter are not in the same class of recruit as 2014's entire top 5. That's why in my post I said success varies year to year depending on the class and you can just arbitrarily select a number to determine success.

And no it's not worse than losing to Duke. Ever hear of a guy named David Garrard?

My thread gets deleted but this tripe is celebrated on this board.
Click to expand...

The fact that you can't see the difference between the way he started his thread and the way you started yours is pretty telling.

All he did was point out that this staff isn't really missing at a higher rate than really any other staff the last 25 years.

You started yours with inflammatory bull **** meant to get a laugh and impress your WEZ guys who all laugh at their own repetitive jokes.
 
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Hstokes1447 said:
Howard Schnellenbeger 1980-1983
  • 3 of 8 signing Dade County top 100 of All time.

Jimmy Johnson 1984-1988
  • 4 of 10 signing Dade County top 100 of All time.

Dennis Erickson 1989-1994
  • 4 of 12 signing Dade County top 100 of All time.

Butch Davis 1995-2000
  • 9 of 25 signing Dade County top 100 of All time.

Larry Coker 2001-2003(His number would be different but this only covers 2001-2003)
  • 3 of 6 signing Dade County top 100 of All time.
Click to expand...

Who compiles the list of top Dade 100 of all time? Is it the Herald? Every year, when I see a list of top Dade, it seems like we're often not in it for a majority of the kids. Often, who the paper regards as tops in Dade are not the players we want. There's a disparity between the top as determined by the newspaper or whomever, and what we want to recruit for our needs. Besides, a lot of the top Dade kids have always had academic issues. They could get in somewhere else, but not at the U. I know that a statewide group, maybe the FHSAA compiled an alltime list of the best in the state. Do you have a link to the list of the Dade top 100?
 
Hstokes1447 said:
http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/1985-02-14/sports/8501050814_1_corey-johnson-broward-dade

The University of Miami`s philosophy toward national football signing day was summed up by coach Jimmy Johnson late Wednesday afternoon as word on several high school signees` commitments reached the Hurricane office.

``I`m not concerned that not everyone likes the University of Miami,`` Johnson said. ``We want people to come here who are excited. If they don`t like it, we`ll ask them to leave. And we`ll go down the road and find someone who wants to come here.``

Johnson and his staff did that Wednesday. While signing eight players from South Florida -- a total of six from Broward and Dade counties -- Miami went out of state to get two all-America quarterbacks, Steve Walsh and Bill Turkowski, and running backs Eric Metcalf and Robert Thomas, who combined for 2,201 yards last year.

As of Wednesday night, Miami had 17 signed letters of intent from high school players and two letters from junior college players. Ten of the 19 signees are from Florida. Last year, 18 of the 25 high school players who signed letters were from Florida (11 from Dade and Broward), and 19 of 26 who signed in 1983 were from Florida (nine from Dade and Broward).

But neither Johnson nor UM`s recuiting coordinator, Corey Johnson, seemed disappointed that they had lost a few local players.

``The only thing that`s disappointing is that we didn`t have 10 more scholarships to give,`` Jimmy Johnson said. ``We lost three players we really wanted (running backs Randy Keiser of North Miami and Michael Timpson of Miami Lakes and linebacker Keith Carter of South Miami) who we thought were three of the best in South Florida, but I`m still extremely pleased.``

Corey Johnson said he wasn`t surprised that UM lost Timpson, Keiser or any other running back because of Miami`s depth at that position -- the Hurricanes have sophomores Alonzo Highsmith and Darryl Oliver and freshmen Melvin Bratton and Warren Williams.

But Miami lost other quality players from their back yard. In Dade, there was offensive lineman Chris Pettaway (LSU), running back Roman Nelson (West Virginia) and defensive back Edward Holliman (West Virginia). In Broward there was punter Scott Johnston (FSU), running back Rod Baker (Missouri) and tackle Rodney Lowe (Mississippi).

``I think one of the things possibly may have been the turnover in coaches,`` Corey Johnson said. ``First (assistant coach) Bill Trout left, and then (assistant) Christ Vagotis, who picked up Trout`s area, left. And when (graduate assistant) Danny Brown picked up that area on an interim basis, he went. So we lost three contacts.

``I think all the ink we got didn`t help because some of it wasn`t positive. Kids listen to that, and it influences them sometimes.``

But it didn`t influence everybody. All-America quarterbacks Steve Walsh (St. Paul, Minn.) and Bill Turkowski (East Versailles, Pa.) signed with UM, as did defensive back Jason Hicks (brother of San Francisco 49ers defensive back Dwight Hicks) and defensive lineman Greg Mark from Pennsauken, N.J.

Locally, Miami signed offensive lineman Marcus Kinlaw (brother of Los Angeles Raiders defensive tackle Reggie Kinlaw) and defensive back Basil Proctor of Miami Edison High.

At 10 a.m. today, the Hurricanes are expected to sign John Hunt, a tight end and defensive end from Ansonia, Conn. On Friday, wide receiver Tony Page of Eisenhower High School in Lawton, Okla., is expected to sign.
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My God! There were so many busts, and few inaccuracies. We never got Eric Metcalf, although we wanted him badly. He went to Texas to run track (and reportedly--help out his father, Terry, who had accumulated a few debts after the NFL). Robert Thomas was his big HS track rival (both were from DC). Thomas just stuck with track. Did nothing in football. I recall his HS coach saying he was the fastest kid on the East Coast.

Randy Keiser went to LSU, I think, and did nothing. Michael Timpson was big time at PSU, as I recall. Keith Carter was a bust at FSU. Too stiff. We didn't lose him for want of scholarships, I believe. We wanted him badly and had room.

Pettaway--don't know if he did much at LSU. Smoke Nelson? Don't know ifhe did much at WVU. Jason Hicks was too slow. Brother of 49er Dwight Hicks, but not the second coming. Turkowski was a dud. Played baseball, ended up a TE at Pitt. Walsh and Mark turned out to be great players. Both Walsh and Turkowski were not as highly ranked as this article makes them out to be. They were Academic All-Americas, not really All Americas. Kinlaw and Proctor were duds. Tony Page, bigtime All-American, came--and went, after about a year. Another bust. Hunt stuck around, but mostly sat on the bench. Maybe contributed on special teams. At least he stuck around--most of these guys didn't. I remember that year, and it was very mediocre, except we got a small number, about a third, who ended up bigtime contributors on a national championship team. Actually, I think Greg Mark had two rings. The kid had heart--pound for pound, one of the toughest. Oh, I forget, he's New Jersey. My bad. He couldn't play, a white kid from up north.
 
Hstokes1447 said:
So lets look at the “elite" guys just from Miami and see how The U has done with not only getting the commitment but also getting the kid admitted. This will further show that, with the exception of Butch Davis, Miami has NEVER locked down the elite Miami talent on a consistent bases.


These guys are from Dade County's 100 greatest high school football players list: (I am only breaking down the guys from 1980-2003, these years reflect the years of Miami greatness.)

  1. Freddie Miles - Miami Springs 1980 committed to Miami but was not admitted do to grades
  2. George "Buster" Rhymes - Northwestern 1980 offered by Miami but committed to Oklahoma
  3. Eddie Brown - Miami High 1981 committed to Miami
  4. Lomas Brown - Miami Springs 1981 committed to offered by Miami but committed to Florida
  5. Fuad Reveiz - Sunset 1981 never offered by Miami
  6. Tony Smith - Southridge 1981 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
  7. Alonzo Highsmith - Columbus 1983 committed to Miami
  8. Mike Shula - Columbus 1983 offered by Miami but committed to Alabama
  9. Michael Dames - Miami Beach 1984 offered by Miami but committed to Michigan
  10. Brett Perriman - Northwestern 1984 committed to Miami
  11. Keith Carter - South Miami 1985 offered by Miami but committed to FSU. Carter played on the same high school team as the great Derrick Thomas and was considered the better prospect.
  12. Chris Pettaway - American 1985 offered by Miami but committed to LSU
  13. Michael Timpson - Hialeah-Miami Lakes 1985 offered by Miami but committed Penn State
  14. Willis Peguese - Southridge 1986 committed to Miami
  15. Greg Jones - Edison 1986
  16. Randal Hill - Killian 1987 committed to Miami
  17. Micheal Barrow - Homestead 1988 committed to Miami
  18. Steve Everitt - Southridge 1988 offered by Miami but committed to Michigan
  19. Tyrone Ashley - Hialeah 1988 offered by Miami but committed to Ole Miss
  20. Rudy Barber - Carol City 1989 committed to Miami
  21. Marvin Jones - Northwestern 1990 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
  22. Joey Veargis - South Miami 1990 offered by Miami but committed to Alabama
  23. Devin Bush - Hialeah-Miami Lakes 1991 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
  24. Ben Hanks - Miami High 1991 offered by Miami but committed to Florida
  25. John Browning - North Miami 1992 committed to West Virginia
  26. Danyell Ferguson - Columbus 1992 committed to Miami
  27. Earl Little - North Miami 1992 committed to Miami
  28. James Colzie - South Miami 1993 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
  29. Lamont Green - Southridge 1994 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
  30. Troy Davis - Southridge 1994 never offered by Miami committed to Iowa
  31. Omar Rolle - Norland 1994 committed to Miami
  32. Samari Rolle - Miami Beach 1994 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
  33. Markeith Cooper - Palmetto 1996 committed to Auburn
  34. Darren Davis - Southridge 1996 committed to Iowa
  35. Sedrick Irvin - Miami High 1996 offered by Miami but committed to Michigan State
  36. Marvin "Snoop" Minnis - Northwestern 1996 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
  37. Nate Webster - Northwestern 1996 committed to Miami
    [*]    Rohan Davey - Hialeah-Miami Lakes 1997 committed to LSU
  38. Orlando Iglesias - Coral Park 1997 never offered by Miami, committed to Houston
  39. Derrick Gibson - Killian 1997 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
  40. William Joseph - Edison 1998 committed to Miami
    [*]Ethenic Sands - Carol City 1998 committed to Miami
    [*]Andre Johnson - Miami High 1999 committed to Miami
    [*]Vernon Carey - Northwestern 1999 committed to Miami
  41. Willie Roberts - Southridge 2000 was not admitted to Miami due to grades. Went JUCO and eventually signed with Oklahoma
  42. Sean Taylor - Gulliver 2001 committed to Miami
    [*]Antrel Rolle - South Dade 2001 committed to Miami
    [*]Frank Gore - Coral Gables 2001 committed to Miami
  43. Willie Jones Jr. - Carol City 2001 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
  44. Max Jean-Gilles - North Miami Beach 2002 offered by Miami but committed to Georgia
  45. Dwayne Bowe - Norland 2003 offered by Miami but committed to LSU. This was rumored to be a part of a package deal that got James Coley his job at LSU

So of the 51 ALL TIME great football players in Dade County only 19 committed to Miami. And of that 19, 8 of them were recruited by Butch Davis. That leaves a total of 11 between Howard Schnellenberger, Jimmy Johnson, and Dennis Erickson.

On the other hand Bobby Bowden managed to single handily pluck 10 of those elite Dade County studs.

Link to Dade County's 100 greatest high school football players list.
http://miamisouthpaw.blogspot.com/2007/08/dade-countys-100-greatest-high-school.html
Click to expand...

I didn't see this post when I made my other comment. OK, so here's how things go:

We did get number 15, Greg Jones, QB from Edison. I had no idea he was rated so high. Had a powerful arm, but was considered lazy by he coaches. I remember one of the coaches, maybe Gary Stevens commenting publicly on how he ran to the locker room as soon as practice was over rather than throwing extra passes on his own. Think he transferred to WVU where he might have sat behind Major Harris.

We couldn't take Joey Veargis academically. He might have ended up in Juco. Last I saw him, he was at a predominantly black college in Ohio, was it Wilberforce or Central Ohio?

I can't remember what happened to Browning. I don't know if there were academic issues or we simply lost him. He was supposed to be very good. As I said in another post, Keith Carter was a bust; Lamont Green was ordinary for a guy so highly touted out of HS.

We got a lot of guys on that list. Can't compete with money, as is alleged to have been the case with at least one on that list (LSU) and maybe some others.
 
Hstokes1447 said:
So lets look at the “elite" guys just from Miami and see how The U has done with not only getting the commitment but also getting the kid admitted. This will further show that, with the exception of Butch Davis, Miami has NEVER locked down the elite Miami talent on a consistent bases.


These guys are from Dade County's 100 greatest high school football players list: (I am only breaking down the guys from 1980-2003, these years reflect the years of Miami greatness.)

  1. Freddie Miles - Miami Springs 1980 committed to Miami but was not admitted do to grades
  2. George "Buster" Rhymes - Northwestern 1980 offered by Miami but committed to Oklahoma
  3. Eddie Brown - Miami High 1981 committed to Miami
  4. Lomas Brown - Miami Springs 1981 committed to offered by Miami but committed to Florida
  5. Fuad Reveiz - Sunset 1981 never offered by Miami
  6. Tony Smith - Southridge 1981 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
  7. Alonzo Highsmith - Columbus 1983 committed to Miami
  8. Mike Shula - Columbus 1983 offered by Miami but committed to Alabama
  9. Michael Dames - Miami Beach 1984 offered by Miami but committed to Michigan
  10. Brett Perriman - Northwestern 1984 committed to Miami
  11. Keith Carter - South Miami 1985 offered by Miami but committed to FSU. Carter played on the same high school team as the great Derrick Thomas and was considered the better prospect.
  12. Chris Pettaway - American 1985 offered by Miami but committed to LSU
  13. Michael Timpson - Hialeah-Miami Lakes 1985 offered by Miami but committed Penn State
  14. Willis Peguese - Southridge 1986 committed to Miami
  15. Greg Jones - Edison 1986
  16. Randal Hill - Killian 1987 committed to Miami
  17. Micheal Barrow - Homestead 1988 committed to Miami
  18. Steve Everitt - Southridge 1988 offered by Miami but committed to Michigan
  19. Tyrone Ashley - Hialeah 1988 offered by Miami but committed to Ole Miss
  20. Rudy Barber - Carol City 1989 committed to Miami
  21. Marvin Jones - Northwestern 1990 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
  22. Joey Veargis - South Miami 1990 offered by Miami but committed to Alabama
  23. Devin Bush - Hialeah-Miami Lakes 1991 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
  24. Ben Hanks - Miami High 1991 offered by Miami but committed to Florida
  25. John Browning - North Miami 1992 committed to West Virginia
  26. Danyell Ferguson - Columbus 1992 committed to Miami
  27. Earl Little - North Miami 1992 committed to Miami
  28. James Colzie - South Miami 1993 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
  29. Lamont Green - Southridge 1994 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
  30. Troy Davis - Southridge 1994 never offered by Miami committed to Iowa
  31. Omar Rolle - Norland 1994 committed to Miami
  32. Samari Rolle - Miami Beach 1994 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
  33. Markeith Cooper - Palmetto 1996 committed to Auburn
  34. Darren Davis - Southridge 1996 committed to Iowa
  35. Sedrick Irvin - Miami High 1996 offered by Miami but committed to Michigan State
  36. Marvin "Snoop" Minnis - Northwestern 1996 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
  37. Nate Webster - Northwestern 1996 committed to Miami
    [*]    Rohan Davey - Hialeah-Miami Lakes 1997 committed to LSU
  38. Orlando Iglesias - Coral Park 1997 never offered by Miami, committed to Houston
  39. Derrick Gibson - Killian 1997 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
  40. William Joseph - Edison 1998 committed to Miami
    [*]Ethenic Sands - Carol City 1998 committed to Miami
    [*]Andre Johnson - Miami High 1999 committed to Miami
    [*]Vernon Carey - Northwestern 1999 committed to Miami
  41. Willie Roberts - Southridge 2000 was not admitted to Miami due to grades. Went JUCO and eventually signed with Oklahoma
  42. Sean Taylor - Gulliver 2001 committed to Miami
    [*]Antrel Rolle - South Dade 2001 committed to Miami
    [*]Frank Gore - Coral Gables 2001 committed to Miami
  43. Willie Jones Jr. - Carol City 2001 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
  44. Max Jean-Gilles - North Miami Beach 2002 offered by Miami but committed to Georgia
  45. Dwayne Bowe - Norland 2003 offered by Miami but committed to LSU. This was rumored to be a part of a package deal that got James Coley his job at LSU

So of the 51 ALL TIME great football players in Dade County only 19 committed to Miami. And of that 19, 8 of them were recruited by Butch Davis. That leaves a total of 11 between Howard Schnellenberger, Jimmy Johnson, and Dennis Erickson.

On the other hand Bobby Bowden managed to single handily pluck 10 of those elite Dade County studs.

Link to Dade County's 100 greatest high school football players list.
http://miamisouthpaw.blogspot.com/2007/08/dade-countys-100-greatest-high-school.html
Click to expand...


Here's what happens when you mess around in HS and don't get grades.


Here's Freddie around '79 or '80, with teammate Carl Sheffield. They led Miami Springs to two consecutive undefeated seasons, '78 and '79

181.jpg



Freddie in 2012, after years in and out of prison, and living on the streets, homeless and destitute:



182.jpg


From what I read, Freddie grew up in a section called Brownsville, practically raised himself. Ended up in a series of jucos, had disciplinary and other problems ended up at UF for a little bit, then tried out with the Bucs. Got cut.

Very sad. We've always had a lot of at-risk kids among the best football players in Dade. When you factor in the kind of HS coaches, former rappers, street agents, all purporting to be coaches, is it any wonder there's little guidance from some of the coaching staffs? When I was in HS, the coaches were always God-fearing, religious types, mostly from the south or West Virginia and strict about all kinds of things. In practice, my HS coach could get pretty rough with some kids, he'd grab a kid's face mask and start jerking it up and down and yelling at him. I'm not saying that's the preferred way, but I don't know if there's as much strictness in coaches today. I don't know if they would try to establish structure and rules where the parenting was weak.
 
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