South Florida recruiting myth.

[5XNC]

schnelly's "state of Miami" is completely different than "south florida".
ft. myers isn't and never has been "south florida".

as previously stated, south florida is the keys, dade, broward, palm beach county.

u can argue whether ft. myers is south of palm beach, who cares? it's not what people define as south florida.

 

[Hstokes1447]

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/1985-02-14/sports/8501050814_1_corey-johnson-broward-dade

The University of Miami`s philosophy toward national football signing day was summed up by coach Jimmy Johnson late Wednesday afternoon as word on several high school signees` commitments reached the Hurricane office.

``I`m not concerned that not everyone likes the University of Miami,`` Johnson said. ``We want people to come here who are excited. If they don`t like it, we`ll ask them to leave. And we`ll go down the road and find someone who wants to come here.``

Johnson and his staff did that Wednesday. While signing eight players from South Florida -- a total of six from Broward and Dade counties -- Miami went out of state to get two all-America quarterbacks, Steve Walsh and Bill Turkowski, and running backs Eric Metcalf and Robert Thomas, who combined for 2,201 yards last year.

As of Wednesday night, Miami had 17 signed letters of intent from high school players and two letters from junior college players. Ten of the 19 signees are from Florida. Last year, 18 of the 25 high school players who signed letters were from Florida (11 from Dade and Broward), and 19 of 26 who signed in 1983 were from Florida (nine from Dade and Broward).

But neither Johnson nor UM`s recuiting coordinator, Corey Johnson, seemed disappointed that they had lost a few local players.

``The only thing that`s disappointing is that we didn`t have 10 more scholarships to give,`` Jimmy Johnson said. ``We lost three players we really wanted (running backs Randy Keiser of North Miami and Michael Timpson of Miami Lakes and linebacker Keith Carter of South Miami) who we thought were three of the best in South Florida, but I`m still extremely pleased.``

Corey Johnson said he wasn`t surprised that UM lost Timpson, Keiser or any other running back because of Miami`s depth at that position -- the Hurricanes have sophomores Alonzo Highsmith and Darryl Oliver and freshmen Melvin Bratton and Warren Williams.

But Miami lost other quality players from their back yard. In Dade, there was offensive lineman Chris Pettaway (LSU), running back Roman Nelson (West Virginia) and defensive back Edward Holliman (West Virginia). In Broward there was punter Scott Johnston (FSU), running back Rod Baker (Missouri) and tackle Rodney Lowe (Mississippi).

``I think one of the things possibly may have been the turnover in coaches,`` Corey Johnson said. ``First (assistant coach) Bill Trout left, and then (assistant) Christ Vagotis, who picked up Trout`s area, left. And when (graduate assistant) Danny Brown picked up that area on an interim basis, he went. So we lost three contacts.

``I think all the ink we got didn`t help because some of it wasn`t positive. Kids listen to that, and it influences them sometimes.``

But it didn`t influence everybody. All-America quarterbacks Steve Walsh (St. Paul, Minn.) and Bill Turkowski (East Versailles, Pa.) signed with UM, as did defensive back Jason Hicks (brother of San Francisco 49ers defensive back Dwight Hicks) and defensive lineman Greg Mark from Pennsauken, N.J.

Locally, Miami signed offensive lineman Marcus Kinlaw (brother of Los Angeles Raiders defensive tackle Reggie Kinlaw) and defensive back Basil Proctor of Miami Edison High.

At 10 a.m. today, the Hurricanes are expected to sign John Hunt, a tight end and defensive end from Ansonia, Conn. On Friday, wide receiver Tony Page of Eisenhower High School in Lawton, Okla., is expected to sign.

 

[Artist Formerly Known As]

I'll excuse Jimmy for missing on Deion and DT because he actually won something.

 

[Hstokes1447]

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/1994-02-01/sports/9402010056_1_four-dade-recruits-fsu-miami-edison


TALLAHASSEE — There aren't any palm trees around Doak Campbell Stadium. The only sand near Florida State's campus is what's trucked in for construction purposes.

Bright lights, big city... Tallahassee is not.

North Florida compares to South Florida in few ways, but FSU's football program increasingly mines the state's rich vein of talent around Miami.




Following the Seminoles' first national championship, their 1994 recruiting class should display as much of a South Florida flavor as any in recent memory.

When high school football players make their college choices official by signing binding national letters-of-intent Wednesday, no fewer than four highly touted players from Dade County are expected to sign with the Seminoles.

Southridge linebacker Lamont Green, USA Today's Defensive Player of the Year, Miami Beach defensive back Samari Rolle, Miami Springs defensive back Troy Sanders and Northwestern receiver Magic Benton should join FSU's South Florida contingent. FSU also got a commitment from Lake Worth safety Deon Humphrey.

All have given non-binding oral commitments.

"I think what you're looking at is the success of Bobby Bowden," Seminoles recruiting coordinator Ronnie Cottrell said. "We have two consecutive bowl appearances in Miami at the Orange Bowl and one national championship. That's appealing to people."

Time was, Florida State didn't care much about recruiting in Dade and Broward counties. Too far away, too close to the University of Miami and too metropolitan went the theory.

More and more, FSU pried high school prospects out of South Florida. Recently, those athletes made the Seminoles happy they took time to recruit heavily 500 miles away.

Northwestern's Marvin Jones and St. Thomas' Sterling Palmer, members of FSU's 1990 recruiting class, already are in the NFL.

Still at FSU, in no particular order, are starters Devin Bush (Hialeah-Miami Lakes), Tyrant Marion (Ely) and Jesus Hernandez (Miami Jackson), not to mention up-and-coming Danny Kanell (Westminster), James Colzie (South Miami), Dulack Guerrier (Miami Edison) and Zack and Henri Crockett (Ely).

If it appears the Seminoles have had their way around Miami, appearances deceive.

Dade and Broward counties operate 70-plus football-playing schools. Do the math: 70 schools with an average of 30 students per team equals 2,100 players.

If 1 percent are worth of college grants-in-aid, that's 21 players.

"With the NCAA shrinking our total number of scholarships, those players can't all go to the same place," Cottrell said.

"All the kids you recruit have a lot of respect for the state schools," said FSU offensive coordinator Mark Richt, who recruits Broward and Palm Beach counties. "They all think playing for any one of us is a pretty good situation, but you have to like one over the others. We've done a good job recently, but Miami still gets most of their players from that area."

In-state rosters prove Richt's point. In 1993, the Seminoles listed 16 players from Dade and Broward counties in their media guide. Florida showed 13. Miami had 32.

 

[Bigtip]

here come all the F.A.G. apologists

smfh

why do you idiots stick up for him so much? you are all going to be calling for his head this year

 

[CANE1775]

For those that remember, which kids from the original poster's list were highly rated elite guys?

 

[Hstokes1447]

So lets look at the “elite" guys just from Miami and see how The U has done with not only getting the commitment but also getting the kid admitted. This will further show that, with the exception of Butch Davis, Miami has NEVER locked down the elite Miami talent on a consistent bases.


These guys are from Dade County's 100 greatest high school football players list: (I am only breaking down the guys from 1980-2003, these years reflect the years of Miami greatness.)

1. Freddie Miles - Miami Springs 1980 committed to Miami but was not admitted do to grades
2. George "Buster" Rhymes - Northwestern 1980 offered by Miami but committed to Oklahoma
3. Eddie Brown - Miami High 1981 committed to Miami
4. Lomas Brown - Miami Springs 1981 committed to offered by Miami but committed to Florida
5. Fuad Reveiz - Sunset 1981 never offered by Miami
6. Tony Smith - Southridge 1981 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
7. Alonzo Highsmith - Columbus 1983 committed to Miami
8. Mike Shula - Columbus 1983 offered by Miami but committed to Alabama
9. Michael Dames - Miami Beach 1984 offered by Miami but committed to Michigan
10. Brett Perriman - Northwestern 1984 committed to Miami
11. Keith Carter - South Miami 1985 offered by Miami but committed to FSU. Carter played on the same high school team as the great Derrick Thomas and was considered the better prospect.
12. Chris Pettaway - American 1985 offered by Miami but committed to LSU
13. Michael Timpson - Hialeah-Miami Lakes 1985 offered by Miami but committed Penn State
14. Willis Peguese - Southridge 1986 committed to Miami
15. Greg Jones - Edison 1986
16. Randal Hill - Killian 1987 committed to Miami
17. Micheal Barrow - Homestead 1988 committed to Miami
18. Steve Everitt - Southridge 1988 offered by Miami but committed to Michigan
19. Tyrone Ashley - Hialeah 1988 offered by Miami but committed to Ole Miss
20. Rudy Barber - Carol City 1989 committed to Miami
21. Marvin Jones - Northwestern 1990 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
22. Joey Veargis - South Miami 1990 offered by Miami but committed to Alabama
23. Devin Bush - Hialeah-Miami Lakes 1991 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
24. Ben Hanks - Miami High 1991 offered by Miami but committed to Florida
25. John Browning - North Miami 1992 committed to West Virginia
26. Danyell Ferguson - Columbus 1992 committed to Miami
27. Earl Little - North Miami 1992 committed to Miami
28. James Colzie - South Miami 1993 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
29. Lamont Green - Southridge 1994 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
30. Troy Davis - Southridge 1994 never offered by Miami committed to Iowa
31. Omar Rolle - Norland 1994 committed to Miami
32. Samari Rolle - Miami Beach 1994 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
33. Markeith Cooper - Palmetto 1996 committed to Auburn
34. Darren Davis - Southridge 1996 committed to Iowa
35. Sedrick Irvin - Miami High 1996 offered by Miami but committed to Michigan State
36. Marvin "Snoop" Minnis - Northwestern 1996 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
37. Nate Webster - Northwestern 1996 committed to Miami
    [*]Rohan Davey - Hialeah-Miami Lakes 1997 committed to LSU
38. Orlando Iglesias - Coral Park 1997 never offered by Miami, committed to Houston
39. Derrick Gibson - Killian 1997 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
40. William Joseph - Edison 1998 committed to Miami
    [*]Ethenic Sands - Carol City 1998 committed to Miami
    [*]Andre Johnson - Miami High 1999 committed to Miami
    [*]Vernon Carey - Northwestern 1999 committed to Miami
41. Willie Roberts - Southridge 2000 was not admitted to Miami due to grades. Went JUCO and eventually signed with Oklahoma
42. Sean Taylor - Gulliver 2001 committed to Miami
    [*]Antrel Rolle - South Dade 2001 committed to Miami
    [*]Frank Gore - Coral Gables 2001 committed to Miami
43. Willie Jones Jr. - Carol City 2001 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
44. Max Jean-Gilles - North Miami Beach 2002 offered by Miami but committed to Georgia
45. Dwayne Bowe - Norland 2003 offered by Miami but committed to LSU. This was rumored to be a part of a package deal that got James Coley his job at LSU

So of the 51 ALL TIME great football players in Dade County only 19 committed to Miami. And of that 19, 8 of them were recruited by Butch Davis. That leaves a total of 11 between Howard Schnellenberger, Jimmy Johnson, and Dennis Erickson.

On the other hand Bobby Bowden managed to single handily pluck 10 of those elite Dade County studs.

Link to Dade County's 100 greatest high school football players list.
http://miamisouthpaw.blogspot.com/2007/08/dade-countys-100-greatest-high-school.html

 

[Futbolfreak11]

Miami currently has 33 players on its roster from Dade and Broward county.. 39 if you include Palm Beach.

 

[Fountain of Canes]

@Hstokes1447 putting in work and slowly tearing down what the views of what people thought and shown what really happened. Great Job!!! hurting people feelings right now lol

 

[Hstokes1447]

I think you are under the impression that I am making excuses or in support of this current staff. I am a Miami guy to my core, I grew up with and I am friends with some of the greatest Miami Hurricane football players ever. I will root for this team regardless of who the coach is and I really don't give a **** if Al stays or goes, I just want this team to win.

The reason behind this post is just to make a simple point, that South Florida recruiting is not what most on here clam it to be. It seems that the posters here live in some fantasy world of the "good old days". Some how they have created this illusion in there minds that the great coaches of Miami's past where locking down every stud south of Palm Beach and this is simply not true.

HStokes you stated that "My point is, regardless who is the coach NO ONE will ever lock down all of the South Florida elite talent." If this is your point then obviously you are correct. My point is that this staff is letting too many elite level players get away and that because they struggle as game day coaches we need more elite talent. The reason I think we're losing elite talent is because elite players don't trust our staff to take them to an elite level.

Quickly looking at your bullet points this is what I see:

1) I agree UM's standards are high, but the standard applies across the board to all levels of talent and not just elite players. If we can get kids who are not elite in we can get kids who are elite admitted. Again, having said that Devin Cook, Alex Collins, Ermon Lane, etc., for example, didn't go away because they couldn't get into UM.

2) I get the connection you're making between "Pay for play" and poverty. No question that "pay for play" is a challenge to every other program not in the SEC because of the obvious NCAA bias in the SEC's favor. However, I'm not buying the argument that we are a special case. We lost to Duke and barely beat Wake Forest at home. Are we going to make the argument that Duke's bag man or Wake's bag man is better than ours? In any case, I know and agree that some elite kids get some form of compensation under the table, but I don't think that's the primary reason we're not landing more elite recruits, and I feel that way partly because we do land a few and what I've already said about elite recruits feelings about our staff.

3) A few observations about your third point. First you define south Floridians rather loosely. I agree that generally speaking Miami is an event town without loyal ties to the football program at the University of Miami. We saw that in our attendance at our football games even in the OB. No question. In short, the city of Miami is not a college town; it is a cosmopolitan city with as you say a lot of people from other places. However, I differentiate between the wider city of Miami and the areas that are our recruiting grounds. In those ares we are a known quantity and there is MORE interest than say in the wider city, and that is especially true for elite athletes - not all of them, but more than we are getting currently. My wife is from small town Louisiana so you get no argument about the importance of football to places like Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi, and Texas.

In closing, what at the end you refer to as "truth" are really just excuses from my point of view. We've gotten enough elite talent in the past - much of it from south Florida - to win five national titles and to lose in four other title games. No we're not going to get every elite south Florida recruit under any coaching regime, but if our staff engendered more confidence in their ability to coach at an elite level I think we'd get more elite talent.

OP, so your point is we shouldn't be concerned about the number of elite SF recruits going places other than UM because we can win without them? I'd say with the present staff we honestly need to out talent opponents so we need as many elite recruits as we can get, particularly those within walking distance of the university. Good effort though.

I totally agree that this staff needs to load up on the elite talent, this would be a totally different team with just a handful of those studs that this staff missed. My point is, regardless who is the coach NO ONE will ever lock down all of the South Florida elite talent.

I think most of the people who are crying about Miami not landing South Florida talent really don't understand South Florida at all.

1. The education in South Florida will always keep elite kids out of Miami.
Look at the ratings of the High Schools that produce elite talent. These schools are all rated 4 and below according to GreatSchool.org

http://www.greatschools.org/search/search.page?search_type=0&q=miami&state=FL&distance=5&gradeLevels=h

2. Poverty is a huge issue in Miami. I grew up in Miami 79th and 15ave, right in Miami Northwestern school zone. Growing up it was normal for kids to live in a single parent home and not have much food to eat. Because of this elite football players from a very early age are auctioned off to the different football parks. This makes for the perfect environment for bag men to run wild.

3. South Florida has never been a place that is "brand loyal". South Florida is filled with transplants that have no real ties to the city at all. This isn't like Alabama where most of those kids families have been there since slavery.

We are simply dealing with a different beast that I don't believe any coach could overcome. Now don't get me wrong I don't think this is an elite recruiting or coaching staff, but on the other hand I am not so blinded by hate that I can't see the truth.

 

[Hstokes1447]

Here is the ESPN Out Side The Lines special about gambling on youth football in South Florida. This will give you a better insight on just how serious the "pay for play" is in South Florida.

[video=youtube;re9bN48qgho]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=re9bN48qgho[/video]

 

[Joecane]

So lets look at the “elite" guys just from Miami and see how The U has done with not only getting the commitment but also getting the kid admitted. This will further show that, with the exception of Butch Davis, Miami has NEVER locked down the elite Miami talent on a consistent bases.


These guys are from Dade County's 100 greatest high school football players list: (I am only breaking down the guys from 1980-2003, these years reflect the years of Miami greatness.)

1. Freddie Miles - Miami Springs 1980 committed to Miami but was not admitted do to grades
2. George "Buster" Rhymes - Northwestern 1980 offered by Miami but committed to Oklahoma
3. Eddie Brown - Miami High 1981 committed to Miami
4. Lomas Brown - Miami Springs 1981 committed to offered by Miami but committed to Florida
5. Fuad Reveiz - Sunset 1981 never offered by Miami
6. Tony Smith - Southridge 1981 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
7. Alonzo Highsmith - Columbus 1983 committed to Miami
8. Mike Shula - Columbus 1983 offered by Miami but committed to Alabama
9. Michael Dames - Miami Beach 1984 offered by Miami but committed to Michigan
10. Brett Perriman - Northwestern 1984 committed to Miami
11. Keith Carter - South Miami 1985 offered by Miami but committed to FSU. Carter played on the same high school team as the great Derrick Thomas and was considered the better prospect.
12. Chris Pettaway - American 1985 offered by Miami but committed to LSU
13. Michael Timpson - Hialeah-Miami Lakes 1985 offered by Miami but committed Penn State
14. Willis Peguese - Southridge 1986 committed to Miami
15. Greg Jones - Edison 1986
16. Randal Hill - Killian 1987 committed to Miami
17. Micheal Barrow - Homestead 1988 committed to Miami
18. Steve Everitt - Southridge 1988 offered by Miami but committed to Michigan
19. Tyrone Ashley - Hialeah 1988 offered by Miami but committed to Ole Miss
20. Rudy Barber - Carol City 1989 committed to Miami
21. Marvin Jones - Northwestern 1990 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
22. Joey Veargis - South Miami 1990 offered by Miami but committed to Alabama
23. Devin Bush - Hialeah-Miami Lakes 1991 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
24. Ben Hanks - Miami High 1991 offered by Miami but committed to Florida
25. John Browning - North Miami 1992 committed to West Virginia
26. Danyell Ferguson - Columbus 1992 committed to Miami
27. Earl Little - North Miami 1992 committed to Miami
28. James Colzie - South Miami 1993 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
29. Lamont Green - Southridge 1994 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
30. Troy Davis - Southridge 1994 never offered by Miami committed to Iowa
31. Omar Rolle - Norland 1994 committed to Miami
32. Samari Rolle - Miami Beach 1994 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
33. Markeith Cooper - Palmetto 1996 committed to Auburn
34. Darren Davis - Southridge 1996 committed to Iowa
35. Sedrick Irvin - Miami High 1996 offered by Miami but committed to Michigan State
36. Marvin "Snoop" Minnis - Northwestern 1996 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
37. Nate Webster - Northwestern 1996 committed to Miami
38. Rohan Davey - Hialeah-Miami Lakes 1997 committed to LSU
39. Orlando Iglesias - Coral Park 1997 never offered by Miami, committed to Houston
40. Derrick Gibson - Killian 1997 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
41. William Joseph - Edison 1998 committed to Miami
42. Ethenic Sands - Carol City 1998 committed to Miami
43. Andre Johnson - Miami High 1999 committed to Miami
44. Vernon Carey - Northwestern 1999 committed to Miami
45. Willie Roberts - Southridge 2000 was not admitted to Miami due to grades. Went JUCO and eventually signed with Oklahoma
46. Sean Taylor - Gulliver 2001 committed to Miami
47. Antrel Rolle - South Dade 2001 committed to Miami
48. Frank Gore - Coral Gables 2001 committed to Miami
49. Willie Jones Jr. - Carol City 2001 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
50. Max Jean-Gilles - North Miami Beach 2002 offered by Miami but committed to Georgia
51. Dwayne Bowe - Norland 2003 offered by Miami but committed to LSU. This was rumored to be a part of a package deal that got James Coley his job at LSU

So of the 51 ALL TIME great football players in Dade County only 19 committed to Miami. And of that 19, 8 of them were recruited by Butch Davis. That leaves a total of 11 between Howard Schnellenberger, Jimmy Johnson, and Dennis Erickson.

On the other hand Bobby Bowden managed to single handily pluck 10 of those elite Dade County studs.

Link to Dade County's 100 greatest high school football players list.
http://miamisouthpaw.blogspot.com/2007/08/dade-countys-100-greatest-high-school.html

So 19 committed and showed up. Another 2 committed and had grade issues. That's 21 out of 51 for Miami.

8guys by your info that we never offered. That's 21 out of 43 for Miami. (and IIRC there's 1 or 2 more guys on that list that didn't have offers).

So, we are just under 50% on the all-time greats list, the list of guys that would have offers from just about everyone, without considering factors like: the probation of the mid-90's and DE's terrible recruiting efforts.

If Golden had gotten half of Dade's elite top players over the last 2 cycles I don't think there would be much complaining.

 

[Bennubird]

No I didn't know your opinion of our coaches because I'm not following who is on which side of the argument, and my comments weren't intended to push you into either camp - supporting or not supporting the staff. I responded to what you said your point was - which is why I quoted it - and to your bullet statements justifying your position. What you're saying here is a bit different than what you said in your previous post. I get that you feel some posters here feel there was a mythical time where Miami got every big name kid from SF. Got it. I just want us to get more than we're getting presently and to win at an elite level.

I think you are under the impression that I am making excuses or in support of this current staff. I am a Miami guy to my core, I grew up with and I am friends with some of the greatest Miami Hurricane football players ever. I will root for this team regardless of who the coach is and I really don't give a **** if Al stays or goes, I just want this team to win.

The reason behind this post is just to make a simple point, that South Florida recruiting is not what most on here clam it to be. It seems that the posters here live in some fantasy world of the "good old days". Some how they have created this illusion in there minds that the great coaches of Miami's past where locking down every stud south of Palm Beach and this is simply not true.

 

[Hstokes1447]

So lets look at the “elite" guys just from Miami and see how The U has done with not only getting the commitment but also getting the kid admitted. This will further show that, with the exception of Butch Davis, Miami has NEVER locked down the elite Miami talent on a consistent bases.


These guys are from Dade County's 100 greatest high school football players list: (I am only breaking down the guys from 1980-2003, these years reflect the years of Miami greatness.)

1. Freddie Miles - Miami Springs 1980 committed to Miami but was not admitted do to grades
2. George "Buster" Rhymes - Northwestern 1980 offered by Miami but committed to Oklahoma
3. Eddie Brown - Miami High 1981 committed to Miami
4. Lomas Brown - Miami Springs 1981 committed to offered by Miami but committed to Florida
5. Fuad Reveiz - Sunset 1981 never offered by Miami
6. Tony Smith - Southridge 1981 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
7. Alonzo Highsmith - Columbus 1983 committed to Miami
8. Mike Shula - Columbus 1983 offered by Miami but committed to Alabama
9. Michael Dames - Miami Beach 1984 offered by Miami but committed to Michigan
10. Brett Perriman - Northwestern 1984 committed to Miami
11. Keith Carter - South Miami 1985 offered by Miami but committed to FSU. Carter played on the same high school team as the great Derrick Thomas and was considered the better prospect.
12. Chris Pettaway - American 1985 offered by Miami but committed to LSU
13. Michael Timpson - Hialeah-Miami Lakes 1985 offered by Miami but committed Penn State
14. Willis Peguese - Southridge 1986 committed to Miami
15. Greg Jones - Edison 1986
16. Randal Hill - Killian 1987 committed to Miami
17. Micheal Barrow - Homestead 1988 committed to Miami
18. Steve Everitt - Southridge 1988 offered by Miami but committed to Michigan
19. Tyrone Ashley - Hialeah 1988 offered by Miami but committed to Ole Miss
20. Rudy Barber - Carol City 1989 committed to Miami
21. Marvin Jones - Northwestern 1990 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
22. Joey Veargis - South Miami 1990 offered by Miami but committed to Alabama
23. Devin Bush - Hialeah-Miami Lakes 1991 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
24. Ben Hanks - Miami High 1991 offered by Miami but committed to Florida
25. John Browning - North Miami 1992 committed to West Virginia
26. Danyell Ferguson - Columbus 1992 committed to Miami
27. Earl Little - North Miami 1992 committed to Miami
28. James Colzie - South Miami 1993 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
29. Lamont Green - Southridge 1994 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
30. Troy Davis - Southridge 1994 never offered by Miami committed to Iowa
31. Omar Rolle - Norland 1994 committed to Miami
32. Samari Rolle - Miami Beach 1994 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
33. Markeith Cooper - Palmetto 1996 committed to Auburn
34. Darren Davis - Southridge 1996 committed to Iowa
35. Sedrick Irvin - Miami High 1996 offered by Miami but committed to Michigan State
36. Marvin "Snoop" Minnis - Northwestern 1996 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
37. Nate Webster - Northwestern 1996 committed to Miami
38. Rohan Davey - Hialeah-Miami Lakes 1997 committed to LSU
39. Orlando Iglesias - Coral Park 1997 never offered by Miami, committed to Houston
40. Derrick Gibson - Killian 1997 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
41. William Joseph - Edison 1998 committed to Miami
42. Ethenic Sands - Carol City 1998 committed to Miami
43. Andre Johnson - Miami High 1999 committed to Miami
44. Vernon Carey - Northwestern 1999 committed to Miami
45. Willie Roberts - Southridge 2000 was not admitted to Miami due to grades. Went JUCO and eventually signed with Oklahoma
46. Sean Taylor - Gulliver 2001 committed to Miami
47. Antrel Rolle - South Dade 2001 committed to Miami
48. Frank Gore - Coral Gables 2001 committed to Miami
49. Willie Jones Jr. - Carol City 2001 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
50. Max Jean-Gilles - North Miami Beach 2002 offered by Miami but committed to Georgia
51. Dwayne Bowe - Norland 2003 offered by Miami but committed to LSU. This was rumored to be a part of a package deal that got James Coley his job at LSU

So of the 51 ALL TIME great football players in Dade County only 19 committed to Miami. And of that 19, 8 of them were recruited by Butch Davis. That leaves a total of 11 between Howard Schnellenberger, Jimmy Johnson, and Dennis Erickson.

On the other hand Bobby Bowden managed to single handily pluck 10 of those elite Dade County studs.

Link to Dade County's 100 greatest high school football players list.
http://miamisouthpaw.blogspot.com/2007/08/dade-countys-100-greatest-high-school.html

So 19 committed and showed up. Another 2 committed and had grade issues. That's 21 out of 51 for Miami.

8guys by your info that we never offered. That's 21 out of 43 for Miami. (and IIRC there's 1 or 2 more guys on that list that didn't have offers).

So, we are just under 50% on the all-time greats list, the list of guys that would have offers from just about everyone, without considering factors like: the probation of the mid-90's and DE's terrible recruiting efforts.

If Golden had gotten half of Dade's elite top players over the last 2 cycles I don't think there would be much complaining.

By your standards what would be considers elite?

 

[Joecane]

So lets look at the “elite" guys just from Miami and see how The U has done with not only getting the commitment but also getting the kid admitted. This will further show that, with the exception of Butch Davis, Miami has NEVER locked down the elite Miami talent on a consistent bases.


These guys are from Dade County's 100 greatest high school football players list: (I am only breaking down the guys from 1980-2003, these years reflect the years of Miami greatness.)

1. Freddie Miles - Miami Springs 1980 committed to Miami but was not admitted do to grades
2. George "Buster" Rhymes - Northwestern 1980 offered by Miami but committed to Oklahoma
3. Eddie Brown - Miami High 1981 committed to Miami
4. Lomas Brown - Miami Springs 1981 committed to offered by Miami but committed to Florida
5. Fuad Reveiz - Sunset 1981 never offered by Miami
6. Tony Smith - Southridge 1981 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
7. Alonzo Highsmith - Columbus 1983 committed to Miami
8. Mike Shula - Columbus 1983 offered by Miami but committed to Alabama
9. Michael Dames - Miami Beach 1984 offered by Miami but committed to Michigan
10. Brett Perriman - Northwestern 1984 committed to Miami
11. Keith Carter - South Miami 1985 offered by Miami but committed to FSU. Carter played on the same high school team as the great Derrick Thomas and was considered the better prospect.
12. Chris Pettaway - American 1985 offered by Miami but committed to LSU
13. Michael Timpson - Hialeah-Miami Lakes 1985 offered by Miami but committed Penn State
14. Willis Peguese - Southridge 1986 committed to Miami
15. Greg Jones - Edison 1986
16. Randal Hill - Killian 1987 committed to Miami
17. Micheal Barrow - Homestead 1988 committed to Miami
18. Steve Everitt - Southridge 1988 offered by Miami but committed to Michigan
19. Tyrone Ashley - Hialeah 1988 offered by Miami but committed to Ole Miss
20. Rudy Barber - Carol City 1989 committed to Miami
21. Marvin Jones - Northwestern 1990 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
22. Joey Veargis - South Miami 1990 offered by Miami but committed to Alabama
23. Devin Bush - Hialeah-Miami Lakes 1991 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
24. Ben Hanks - Miami High 1991 offered by Miami but committed to Florida
25. John Browning - North Miami 1992 committed to West Virginia
26. Danyell Ferguson - Columbus 1992 committed to Miami
27. Earl Little - North Miami 1992 committed to Miami
28. James Colzie - South Miami 1993 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
29. Lamont Green - Southridge 1994 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
30. Troy Davis - Southridge 1994 never offered by Miami committed to Iowa
31. Omar Rolle - Norland 1994 committed to Miami
32. Samari Rolle - Miami Beach 1994 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
33. Markeith Cooper - Palmetto 1996 committed to Auburn
34. Darren Davis - Southridge 1996 committed to Iowa
35. Sedrick Irvin - Miami High 1996 offered by Miami but committed to Michigan State
36. Marvin "Snoop" Minnis - Northwestern 1996 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
37. Nate Webster - Northwestern 1996 committed to Miami
38. Rohan Davey - Hialeah-Miami Lakes 1997 committed to LSU
39. Orlando Iglesias - Coral Park 1997 never offered by Miami, committed to Houston
40. Derrick Gibson - Killian 1997 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
41. William Joseph - Edison 1998 committed to Miami
42. Ethenic Sands - Carol City 1998 committed to Miami
43. Andre Johnson - Miami High 1999 committed to Miami
44. Vernon Carey - Northwestern 1999 committed to Miami
45. Willie Roberts - Southridge 2000 was not admitted to Miami due to grades. Went JUCO and eventually signed with Oklahoma
46. Sean Taylor - Gulliver 2001 committed to Miami
47. Antrel Rolle - South Dade 2001 committed to Miami
48. Frank Gore - Coral Gables 2001 committed to Miami
49. Willie Jones Jr. - Carol City 2001 offered by Miami but committed to FSU
50. Max Jean-Gilles - North Miami Beach 2002 offered by Miami but committed to Georgia
51. Dwayne Bowe - Norland 2003 offered by Miami but committed to LSU. This was rumored to be a part of a package deal that got James Coley his job at LSU

So of the 51 ALL TIME great football players in Dade County only 19 committed to Miami. And of that 19, 8 of them were recruited by Butch Davis. That leaves a total of 11 between Howard Schnellenberger, Jimmy Johnson, and Dennis Erickson.

On the other hand Bobby Bowden managed to single handily pluck 10 of those elite Dade County studs.

Link to Dade County's 100 greatest high school football players list.
http://miamisouthpaw.blogspot.com/2007/08/dade-countys-100-greatest-high-school.html

So 19 committed and showed up. Another 2 committed and had grade issues. That's 21 out of 51 for Miami.

8guys by your info that we never offered. That's 21 out of 43 for Miami. (and IIRC there's 1 or 2 more guys on that list that didn't have offers).

So, we are just under 50% on the all-time greats list, the list of guys that would have offers from just about everyone, without considering factors like: the probation of the mid-90's and DE's terrible recruiting efforts.

If Golden had gotten half of Dade's elite top players over the last 2 cycles I don't think there would be much complaining.

By your standards what would be considers elite?

That would vary from year to year. 2013 wasn't a great Dade year so missing on Thomas & Kirkland from a "feeder" school is greatly magnified. Last year, getting only 2 of Cook, Thomas, Lane, Yearby, Harris, especially considering the misses in Broward, was also a big failure.

Either way, we landed 50% of what we wanted from the all-time greats list in spite of probation and DE.

 

[Hstokes1447]

Lets look at the top 5 rated recruits from Dade County between 2012-2014

Dade County 2012 top 5 rated recruits

1. RB Duke Johnson committed to Miami
2. WR Amari Cooper committed to Alabama
3. DB Deon Bush committed to Miami
4. DB Amos Leggett committed to Marshall (was committed to Miami but had to decommit due to grades)
5. LB Keith Brown committed to Louisville (was committed to Miami but decommitted because Miami would not give his brother a scholarship)

Dade County 2013 top 5 rated recruits

1. LB Matthew Thomas committed to FSU
2. OL Denver Kirkland committed to Arkansas
3. DB Artie Burns committed to Miami
   [*]DB Jamal Carter committed to Miami
4. DB Lamar Robbins committed to South Florida (was never offered by Miami)

Dade County 2014 top 5 rated recruits

1. RB Dalvin Cook committed to FSU
2. DE Chad Thomas committed to Miami
3. WR Ermon Lane committed to FSU
4. DT Travonte Valentine committed to LSU (was committed to Miami but decommitted for unknown reasons. He was also rumored to have grade issues)
5. RB Joseph Yearby committed to Miami

So of the top 15 players in Dade County over the past 3 years 6 of them are currently on Miami's roster. That will give this staff a 40% success rate with the elite Dade County kids. Now if we use Joecanes math Amos Leggett committed but had grade issues, so that moves the number to 7. Also Lamar Robbins was never offered so the total number moves down to 14, putting this staff at 7 of 14 committed.

Joecane according to your math this staff has indeed signed 50% of the elite kids from Dade County.

Now my next question for you is, do you believe that a team full of elite South Florida sophomores and freshmen would have given this team a better record in 2013? I personally don't think so, a team that young will always have growing pains and lose games simply because of inexperience.

Look at the 1999 Team, by all accounts Butch Davis is the most elite recruiter and developer of talent that Miami has ever had.
This team had a few elite JR's

1. WR Reggie Wayne
2. WR Santana Moss
3. TE Bubba Franks
4. DT Damione Lewis
5. LB Dan Morgan
6. LB Nate Webster
7. S Al Blades

Despite that level of talent, the most elite players were still Freshmen and Sophomores. That team went 9-4 losing to Penn State, FSU, East Carolina (this is much worst than losing to Duke) and a blow out lost to Virginia Tech.

 

[D.L.I.N.K.D.A.GR8]

I thought state of Miami went from I-4 to 75 95 on down...... school me please

 

[5XNC]

nope, dade, broward and palm beach counties.

 

[niner]

"Schnellenberger recruited across South Florida up Interstate 95 through the Space Coast and across Interstate 4 from Tampa through Orlando, and he dubbed this "the state of Miami."

http://espn.go.com/college-sports/r...nellenberger-final-touch-south-florida-legacy

 

[bobbydigius]

Lets look at the top 5 rated recruits from Dade County between 2012-2014

Dade County 2012 top 5 rated recruits

1. RB Duke Johnson committed to Miami
2. WR Amari Cooper committed to Alabama
3. DB Deon Bush committed to Miami
4. DB Amos Leggett committed to Marshall (was committed to Miami but had to decommit due to grades)
5. LB Keith Brown committed to Louisville (was committed to Miami but decommitted because Miami would not give his brother a scholarship)

Dade County 2013 top 5 rated recruits

1. LB Matthew Thomas committed to FSU
2. OL Denver Kirkland committed to Arkansas
3. DB Artie Burns committed to Miami
   [*]DB Jamal Carter committed to Miami
4. DB Lamar Robbins committed to South Florida (was never offered by Miami)

Dade County 2014 top 5 rated recruits

1. RB Dalvin Cook committed to FSU
2. DE Chad Thomas committed to Miami
3. WR Ermon Lane committed to FSU
4. DT Travonte Valentine committed to LSU (was committed to Miami but decommitted for unknown reasons. He was also rumored to have grade issues)
5. RB Joseph Yearby committed to Miami

So of the top 15 players in Dade County over the past 3 years 6 of them are currently on Miami's roster. That will give this staff a 40% success rate with the elite Dade County kids. Now if we use Joecanes math Amos Leggett committed but had grade issues, so that moves the number to 7. Also Lamar Robbins was never offered so the total number moves down to 14, putting this staff at 7 of 14 committed.

Joecane according to your math this staff has indeed signed 50% of the elite kids from Dade County.

Now my next question for you is, do you believe that a team full of elite South Florida sophomores and freshmen would have given this team a better record in 2013? I personally don't think so, a team that young will always have growing pains and lose games simply because of inexperience.

Look at the 1999 Team, by all accounts Butch Davis is the most elite recruiter and developer of talent that Miami has ever had.
This team had a few elite JR's

1. WR Reggie Wayne
2. WR Santana Moss
3. TE Bubba Franks
4. DT Damione Lewis
5. LB Dan Morgan
6. LB Nate Webster
7. S Al Blades

Despite that level of talent, the most elite players were still Freshmen and Sophomores. That team went 9-4 losing to Penn State, FSU, East Carolina (this is much worst than losing to Duke) and a blow out lost to Virginia Tech.

Your lists are actually terrible. Where is Tracy Howard in 2012, Coley and Collins in 2013? Sony Michel and T Rudolph in 2014? The part that has hurt us recently was there has been a terrible trend. We got everyone in 2012, but it wasnt that strong of a year anyway by Dade standards. In 2013 the problems really started when we lost Collins plus Kirkland and Thomas from a major feeder school. In 2014 we missed on even more guys, and this year we have the situation with Monarch kids. There has been 4 elite backs, Ill even include Yearby even though I dont consider him elite, very very good yes but not elite. We got Yearby and missed on the other 3. At WR the top notch WR that last two years were Coley, Lane and Rudolph, we went 1-3 and thank god for Bennett. DTs the position of major need, a position that S Florida doesnt really produce that much, well there were 4 above average talents in the last 2 years, Clark, Bryant, Moten and Vaentine. We went 1/4 and that doesnt include Bostwick which isnt really S Florida who was supposed to be a lock. Now yes we have had hits, Darling and KC at OL is one example, but we are missing more than we should....