South Florida recruiting myth.

[Dan E. Dangerously]

First, props for putting in the work. My thoughts on each of those drafts:

The '83 and '84 drafts don't belong there.
Any player eligible for that draft would have been committed in 1979, back when we were losing road games to FAMU. We were bottom of the barrel back then and Howard was just getting started.

Look at the '87 and '88 drafts.
That's when guys like Highsmith (part of the '83 class) were starting to go pro. It's when the fruits of Howard's labor started showing (other than his national title of course). Those '83 and '84 classes were full of South Florida players and comprised all those mid 80's teams that kicked the **** out of everyone.

Derrick Thomas' situation was weird
I don't remember the specifics, but his recruitment was odd. Someone can go over that because I don't remember it.

Deon Sanders is a ******
Don't care.

Red Jimmy Johnson text
You can afford to miss out on guys when you are racking up wins and national titles. You can't when you have a losing record against Virginia and get raped by Duke.



Also Jimmy had a great eye for talent, and he was running the marquee program in college football. So he could be more selective locally and could cherry pick nationwide.


The 1990 Draft didn't have anyone drafted
Don't care, we had just won the '89 title. Same goes for every draft through '93. We were the most dominant program in the nation. **** the NFL draft.

The '94 Draft through the '01 Draft
Dennis Erickson sucked at recruiting. It's probably the thing he was worst at other than being a drunk. Also, there was this guy called Tony Russell. Read about him here.

2002 to 2005
Paul Hilton Davis.

2006 Draft
Benefits of being "The U"

 

[Dan E. Dangerously]

Oh, and "South Florida" as far as recruiting goes is Dade, Broward, and Palm Beach.

 

[hcanes100]

See, Dan up in there make sense and cutting through the giberous.

 

[Andrew]

You really have to look at top prospects. Just because they got drafted doesn't mean we even wanted them. Also recruiting has changed a lot the past 10 years. its far my easier to become noticed than it used to be.

 

[Hstokes1447]

Florida State coach Bobby Bowden looks like this year`s Pied Piper of college football recruiting.

Bowden is playing a mellifluous tune that has many of the nation`s top high school prospects following him to Tallahassee. It`s national letter-of-intent signing day today, and Bowden is expected to claim more blue chippers than any of his colleagues, including Notre Dame`s Lou Holtz and Miami`s Jimmy Johnson.




At least that`s what one respected recruiting analyst says.

``FSU recruiting is spreading like wild fire,`` analyst Max Emfinger said. ``Some of the other experts have already picked Notre Dame as this year`s best class. I think FSU`s class is a little bit better.``

FSU, Emfinger projects, will claim seven of his top-rated players. Notre Dame should get three.

The Hurricanes were pleased to learn Tuesday that one of four USA Today All- Americans they are heavily recruiting has committed to UM. Receiver Kevin Williams of Dallas is bound for Miami. Still, UM is eagerly awaiting the decisions of three others, players who could vault them into Emfinger`s Top 10.

It shapes up as a typical Johnson class, featuring a nucleus of South Florida players rounded out by national signings and a fair share of ``sleepers.``

The Florida Gators are not impressing the experts and have lost out in many of the battles for the state`s top players. Still, the Gators have commitments from some national prospects that they hope will compensate for their smaller take of Florida blue chippers.

Here`s how the recruiting specifics shape up:

FSU: It`s a recruiting class that could rival FSU`s banner `85 class, one headed by Deion Sanders, Sammie Smith and Pat Tomberlin, a class that helped the Seminoles to a 22-2 record over the last two seasons.

The Seminoles expect to sign a particularly impressive cast of skill players, including quarterback Kenny Felder of Niceville, Emfinger`s No. 3-rated passer who threw for more than 3,500 career yards.

Other blue-chip skill players committed: Eric Turral of Tallahassee Godby, Emfinger`s No. 2 inside receiver, who set a state record for kick-return touchdowns; Clyde Allen of Fort Myers, Emfinger`s No. 4 speed running back, who averaged 7.6 yards per carry in his career; Dominique Ross of Jacksonville Raines, Emfinger`s No. 7 speed back and Maurice Pinckney of Stranahan, Emfinger`s No. 6 power back.

Defensively, FSU came away with three USA Today first-team All-Americans: linebacker Sterling Palmer of St. Thomas, end Eric Shaw of Pensacola and safety John Davis of Pahokee.

MIAMI: Williams, who averaged 25 yards per catch and 10 yards per run for Roosevelt High in Dallas, was a major commitment for UM, their second outstanding Texas skill player. Houston`s offensive Player of the Year, running back Martin Patton, committed in January.



The difference between an outstanding class and a very good class rests on the decisions of three USA Today All-Americans: first-team guard Rudy Barber of Carol City, first-team linebacker Jesse Armstead of Dallas and second-team receiver Horace Copeland of Orlando.

Still, ``blue chip`` accolades haven`t meant a lot to UM in recent years. The `Canes have had much success with sleepers like Steve Walsh, Russell Maryland, Rob Chudzinski and Greg Mark. UM hasn`t overly impressed recruiting experts in the last four years yet are 44-4 in that time with a national championship.

 

[BlackKeysFan]

We're getting good players. We've missed on a ton of elite kids lately but have also landed some. Chickillo and Perryman in 2011, Duke, Tracy, and McCord in 2012, Coley and Burns in 2013 and I'll reserve judgement on the rest of the classes for at least another year. Yearby, Mcdermott, CT 99, Berrios, Harris, Owens, Moten, Darling, Kaaya, More dudes than I can count in this last class with elite offers around the country that we were able to close. Theres plenty of talent on the roster to win, and winning fixes everything.

We have won more games every year and even though it might not be at the pace that fans expect, I'm reserving judgement. I was frustrated but happy with last year, I'm very optimistic about the recruiting class, and the depth chart moving forward looks good. X's and O's need some work, and a freshman QB is an enourmous challenge for Coley.

We have missed on plenty of guys, but you can't dwell on misses because you can't just pencil a kid into a school just because its the closest school to him. The fact that we do that to begin with is potato. The kids we have brought in are plenty good enough to play consistent Top 25 football, and thats the next step for this program. I want to get there and see what adjustments are made on both sides of the ball.

 

[NVA CANE]

When Al Golden produces like the great coaches of Miami, I will look past any recruiting failures. As it stands now he is the white randy Shannon and missing elite recruits is unforgivable. Either win or bring in top 5 to top 10 classes to offset your losses a la Ron Zook. Otherwise GTFO

 

[TheMatador]

All i saw from this is there was an actual football player named Buster Rhymes. LOL LOL LOL, for real? Does he have that head nod **** that make you break yo neck? Woo Ha Woo Ha!

I think I heard that there was a singer or rapper (is a rapper a singer?) named Buster Rhymes. I laughed.

 

[TheMatador]

Florida State coach Bobby Bowden looks like this year`s Pied Piper of college football recruiting.

Bowden is playing a mellifluous tune that has many of the nation`s top high school prospects following him to Tallahassee. It`s national letter-of-intent signing day today, and Bowden is expected to claim more blue chippers than any of his colleagues, including Notre Dame`s Lou Holtz and Miami`s Jimmy Johnson.




At least that`s what one respected recruiting analyst says.

``FSU recruiting is spreading like wild fire,`` analyst Max Emfinger said. ``Some of the other experts have already picked Notre Dame as this year`s best class. I think FSU`s class is a little bit better.``

FSU, Emfinger projects, will claim seven of his top-rated players. Notre Dame should get three.

The Hurricanes were pleased to learn Tuesday that one of four USA Today All- Americans they are heavily recruiting has committed to UM. Receiver Kevin Williams of Dallas is bound for Miami. Still, UM is eagerly awaiting the decisions of three others, players who could vault them into Emfinger`s Top 10.

It shapes up as a typical Johnson class, featuring a nucleus of South Florida players rounded out by national signings and a fair share of ``sleepers.``

The Florida Gators are not impressing the experts and have lost out in many of the battles for the state`s top players. Still, the Gators have commitments from some national prospects that they hope will compensate for their smaller take of Florida blue chippers.

Here`s how the recruiting specifics shape up:

FSU: It`s a recruiting class that could rival FSU`s banner `85 class, one headed by Deion Sanders, Sammie Smith and Pat Tomberlin, a class that helped the Seminoles to a 22-2 record over the last two seasons.

The Seminoles expect to sign a particularly impressive cast of skill players, including quarterback Kenny Felder of Niceville, Emfinger`s No. 3-rated passer who threw for more than 3,500 career yards.

Other blue-chip skill players committed: Eric Turral of Tallahassee Godby, Emfinger`s No. 2 inside receiver, who set a state record for kick-return touchdowns; Clyde Allen of Fort Myers, Emfinger`s No. 4 speed running back, who averaged 7.6 yards per carry in his career; Dominique Ross of Jacksonville Raines, Emfinger`s No. 7 speed back and Maurice Pinckney of Stranahan, Emfinger`s No. 6 power back.

Defensively, FSU came away with three USA Today first-team All-Americans: linebacker Sterling Palmer of St. Thomas, end Eric Shaw of Pensacola and safety John Davis of Pahokee.

MIAMI: Williams, who averaged 25 yards per catch and 10 yards per run for Roosevelt High in Dallas, was a major commitment for UM, their second outstanding Texas skill player. Houston`s offensive Player of the Year, running back Martin Patton, committed in January.



The difference between an outstanding class and a very good class rests on the decisions of three USA Today All-Americans: first-team guard Rudy Barber of Carol City, first-team linebacker Jesse Armstead of Dallas and second-team receiver Horace Copeland of Orlando.

Still, ``blue chip`` accolades haven`t meant a lot to UM in recent years. The `Canes have had much success with sleepers like Steve Walsh, Russell Maryland, Rob Chudzinski and Greg Mark. UM hasn`t overly impressed recruiting experts in the last four years yet are 44-4 in that time with a national championship.

Great article. I probably read it back then. I subscribed to Emfinger and read everything I could get my hands on. I remember that recruiting year so well. We missed on Sterling Palmer, and I was heartbroken. He turned out to be such an underachiever. A "bus" player. You know, first off the bus. Eric Shaw got arrested, and John Davis was very average. We took two or three of the best players in Texas. That was one of the few classes where we actually contended for some of the big names, but we lost more of them than we won. Rudy Barber became a solid player, not a star. Armstead was a star, but perhaps was no better than Darren Smith. Horace Copeland disappointed me a bit. Great high jumper, tall with great speed. I think he should have been the second coming of Mike Irvin and even more. I don't know that Kenny Felder ever did anything. We lost the McKenzie kid from Ft. Lauderdale to PSU. He was a first team USA Today A-A. ND had a great class that year.

 

[TheMatador]

First, props for putting in the work. My thoughts on each of those drafts:

The '83 and '84 drafts don't belong there.
Any player eligible for that draft would have been committed in 1979, back when we were losing road games to FAMU. We were bottom of the barrel back then and Howard was just getting started.

Look at the '87 and '88 drafts.
That's when guys like Highsmith (part of the '83 class) were starting to go pro. It's when the fruits of Howard's labor started showing (other than his national title of course). Those '83 and '84 classes were full of South Florida players and comprised all those mid 80's teams that kicked the **** out of everyone.

Derrick Thomas' situation was weird
I don't remember the specifics, but his recruitment was odd. Someone can go over that because I don't remember it.

Deon Sanders is a ******
Don't care.

Red Jimmy Johnson text
You can afford to miss out on guys when you are racking up wins and national titles. You can't when you have a losing record against Virginia and get raped by Duke.



Also Jimmy had a great eye for talent, and he was running the marquee program in college football. So he could be more selective locally and could cherry pick nationwide.


The 1990 Draft didn't have anyone drafted
Don't care, we had just won the '89 title. Same goes for every draft through '93. We were the most dominant program in the nation. **** the NFL draft.

The '94 Draft through the '01 Draft
Dennis Erickson sucked at recruiting. It's probably the thing he was worst at other than being a drunk. Also, there was this guy called Tony Russell. Read about him here.

2002 to 2005
Paul Hilton Davis.

2006 Draft
Benefits of being "The U"

Actually, some of our early '80's talent, the group that started to turn the team around, might have been Lou Saban recruits. Like Jim Kelly. Who was that DT from Carol City that was a big time recruit? Lester Williams. Some told me Saban was a better recruiter than Schnellenberger.

I sort of remember that we didn't recruit Derrick Thomas, but I'm not sure. I think he was kind of a sleeper. Back then, Alabama was not killing us for south Florida kids.

 

[TheMatador]

All i saw from this is there was an actual football player named Buster Rhymes. LOL LOL LOL, for real? Does he have that head nod **** that make you break yo neck? Woo Ha Woo Ha!

his real name was George but he is the reason behind the origination of the rapper Busta Rhymes' name. He was a lil bit before my time but old heads talk about him the way I talk about Frank. Apparently he was a monster RB back in the day for the West.

Ended up a WR for Oklahoma.

 

[Gatorhater]

Wasn't Butch JJ's recruiting coordinator, at least a couple years? There is no question Butch was about the best recruiter ever, and not because he landed all the big starts but because who he landed became big stars. I don't want him as HC but I can see no reason for him to not be on this staff as dline or DC and recruiting CEO.
We always got out recruited by St Bobby in the rankings. I remember one guru say that it doesn't matter that FSU gets bigger name recruits because whoever Miami gets will beat them. I think JJ had one highly ranked class, the one with Armstead. I believe Al is recruiting well enough; it is his coaching and assistants that is lacking. Howard said the what Miami was always missing was good coaching. I am more worried about what is being done with the recruits we get than the ones we lost. Right now, I doubt this staff could win with Butch Davis recruits.

 

[Dingaan1828]

I've seen Schnellenberger's "State of Miami" defined at least three different ways in newspaper articles from his time at Miami. One was a line from Cocoa Beach through Orlando and extending to Tampa. Another was basically the same line but included Daytona Beach (unrealistic). The other was the Florida east coast from Vero Beach south.

So, pick your definition and argue away. I generally think of SoFL as the last definition - southeast coast of FL - but that doesn't make it so.

But, IMO, the OP's point is valid no matter how you define the area.

 

[Boarcane]

let's just make up ****. bleak crootin ain't never told the whole story….. :stormwarning:

 

[Canefam]

OP, so your point is we shouldn't be concerned about the number of elite SF recruits going places other than UM because we can win without them? I'd say with the present staff we honestly need to out talent opponents so we need as many elite recruits as we can get, particularly those within walking distance of the university. Good effort though.

I totally agree that this staff needs to load up on the elite talent, this would be a totally different team with just a handful of those studs that this staff missed. My point is, regardless who is the coach NO ONE will ever lock down all of the South Florida elite talent.

I think most of the people who are crying about Miami not landing South Florida talent really don't understand South Florida at all.

1. The education in South Florida will always keep elite kids out of Miami.
Look at the ratings of the High Schools that produce elite talent. These schools are all rated 4 and below according to GreatSchool.org

http://www.greatschools.org/search/search.page?search_type=0&q=miami&state=FL&distance=5&gradeLevels=h

2. Poverty is a huge issue in Miami. I grew up in Miami 79th and 15ave, right in Miami Northwestern school zone. Growing up it was normal for kids to live in a single parent home and not have much food to eat. Because of this elite football players from a very early age are auctioned off to the different football parks. This makes for the perfect environment for bag men to run wild.

3. South Florida has never been a place that is "brand loyal". South Florida is filled with transplants that have no real ties to the city at all. This isn't like Alabama where most of those kids families have been there since slavery.

We are simply dealing with a different beast that I don't believe any coach could overcome. Now don't get me wrong I don't think this is an elite recruiting or coaching staff, but on the other hand I am not so blinded by hate that I can't see the truth.

Interesting...

 

[Canefam]

We're getting good players. We've missed on a ton of elite kids lately but have also landed some. Chickillo and Perryman in 2011, Duke, Tracy, and McCord in 2012, Coley and Burns in 2013 and I'll reserve judgement on the rest of the classes for at least another year. Yearby, Mcdermott, CT 99, Berrios, Harris, Owens, Moten, Darling, Kaaya, More dudes than I can count in this last class with elite offers around the country that we were able to close. Theres plenty of talent on the roster to win, and winning fixes everything.

We have won more games every year and even though it might not be at the pace that fans expect, I'm reserving judgement. I was frustrated but happy with last year, I'm very optimistic about the recruiting class, and the depth chart moving forward looks good. X's and O's need some work, and a freshman QB is an enourmous challenge for Coley.

We have missed on plenty of guys, but you can't dwell on misses because you can't just pencil a kid into a school just because its the closest school to him. The fact that we do that to begin with is potato. The kids we have brought in are plenty good enough to play consistent Top 25 football, and thats the next step for this program. I want to get there and see what adjustments are made on both sides of the ball.

Solid post...!

 

[De Pinga]

De Pinga

 

[drifters1234]

First, props for putting in the work. My thoughts on each of those drafts:

The '83 and '84 drafts don't belong there.
Any player eligible for that draft would have been committed in 1979, back when we were losing road games to FAMU. We were bottom of the barrel back then and Howard was just getting started.

Look at the '87 and '88 drafts.
That's when guys like Highsmith (part of the '83 class) were starting to go pro. It's when the fruits of Howard's labor started showing (other than his national title of course). Those '83 and '84 classes were full of South Florida players and comprised all those mid 80's teams that kicked the **** out of everyone.

Derrick Thomas' situation was weird
I don't remember the specifics, but his recruitment was odd. Someone can go over that because I don't remember it.

Deon Sanders is a ******
Don't care.

Red Jimmy Johnson text
You can afford to miss out on guys when you are racking up wins and national titles. You can't when you have a losing record against Virginia and get raped by Duke.



Also Jimmy had a great eye for talent, and he was running the marquee program in college football. So he could be more selective locally and could cherry pick nationwide.


The 1990 Draft didn't have anyone drafted
Don't care, we had just won the '89 title. Same goes for every draft through '93. We were the most dominant program in the nation. **** the NFL draft.

The '94 Draft through the '01 Draft
Dennis Erickson sucked at recruiting. It's probably the thing he was worst at other than being a drunk. Also, there was this guy called Tony Russell. Read about him here.

2002 to 2005
Paul Hilton Davis.

2006 Draft
Benefits of being "The U"

Agreed. And a lot of the guys that are listed as misses were guys we passed on. Those evals were ultimately incorrect, but you can't list them as guys that we wanted and spurned UM

 

[3FW]

We have not done a good enough job in Dade and Broward. End of story.

 

[Bennubird]

HStokes you stated that "My point is, regardless who is the coach NO ONE will ever lock down all of the South Florida elite talent." If this is your point then obviously you are correct. My point is that this staff is letting too many elite level players get away and that because they struggle as game day coaches we need more elite talent. The reason I think we're losing elite talent is because elite players don't trust our staff to take them to an elite level.

Quickly looking at your bullet points this is what I see:

1) I agree UM's standards are high, but the standard applies across the board to all levels of talent and not just elite players. If we can get kids who are not elite in we can get kids who are elite admitted. Again, having said that Dalvin Cook, Alex Collins, Ermon Lane, etc., for example, didn't go away because they couldn't get into UM.

2) I get the connection you're making between "Pay for play" and poverty. No question that "pay for play" is a challenge to every other program not in the SEC because of the obvious NCAA bias in the SEC's favor. However, I'm not buying the argument that we are a special case. We lost to Duke and barely beat Wake Forest at home. Are we going to make the argument that Duke's bag man or Wake's bag man is better than ours? In any case, I know and agree that some elite kids get some form of compensation under the table, but I don't think that's the primary reason we're not landing more elite recruits, and I feel that way partly because we do land a few and what I've already said about elite recruits feelings about our staff.

3) A few observations about your third point. First you define south Floridians rather loosely. I agree that generally speaking Miami is an event town without loyal ties to the football program at the University of Miami. We saw that in our attendance at our football games even in the OB. No question. In short, the city of Miami is not a college town; it is a cosmopolitan city with as you say a lot of people from other places. However, I differentiate between the wider city of Miami and the areas that are our recruiting grounds. In those ares we are a known quantity and there is MORE interest than say in the wider city, and that is especially true for elite athletes - not all of them, but more than we are getting currently. My wife is from small town Louisiana so you get no argument about the importance of football to places like Alabama, Louisiana, Mississippi, and Texas.

In closing, what at the end you refer to as "truth" are really just excuses from my point of view. We've gotten enough elite talent in the past - much of it from south Florida - to win five national titles and to lose in four other title games. No we're not going to get every elite south Florida recruit under any coaching regime, but if our staff engendered more confidence in their ability to coach at an elite level I think we'd get more elite talent.

OP, so your point is we shouldn't be concerned about the number of elite SF recruits going places other than UM because we can win without them? I'd say with the present staff we honestly need to out talent opponents so we need as many elite recruits as we can get, particularly those within walking distance of the university. Good effort though.

I totally agree that this staff needs to load up on the elite talent, this would be a totally different team with just a handful of those studs that this staff missed. My point is, regardless who is the coach NO ONE will ever lock down all of the South Florida elite talent.

I think most of the people who are crying about Miami not landing South Florida talent really don't understand South Florida at all.

1. The education in South Florida will always keep elite kids out of Miami.
Look at the ratings of the High Schools that produce elite talent. These schools are all rated 4 and below according to GreatSchool.org

http://www.greatschools.org/search/search.page?search_type=0&q=miami&state=FL&distance=5&gradeLevels=h

2. Poverty is a huge issue in Miami. I grew up in Miami 79th and 15ave, right in Miami Northwestern school zone. Growing up it was normal for kids to live in a single parent home and not have much food to eat. Because of this elite football players from a very early age are auctioned off to the different football parks. This makes for the perfect environment for bag men to run wild.

3. South Florida has never been a place that is "brand loyal". South Florida is filled with transplants that have no real ties to the city at all. This isn't like Alabama where most of those kids families have been there since slavery.

We are simply dealing with a different beast that I don't believe any coach could overcome. Now don't get me wrong I don't think this is an elite recruiting or coaching staff, but on the other hand I am not so blinded by hate that I can't see the truth.