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South Florida RBs in the playoffs

DMoney said:
You were wrong about Walton's UM career, wrong about his draft position, wrong about basically everything until he got arrested. It's no big deal. I'm wrong all the time. But you kept doubling down to the point where it appeared personal.

Walton's off-field shenanigans ended his career. On the field, he was starting and showing value as a blocker and receiver in the passing game. Which is what we had projected for him all along.
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5) Here we are today. You're saying Walton was better by a mile than the other Dolphins RB's. You're still holding on to the notion that Walton's receiving, blocking, special teams, etc. differentiate him from other RB's.

Let's compare Walton's 4 starts vs. Laird's 4 starts:

Walton - 162 yds rushing, 3.8 ypc - 66 yds receiving, 5.5 ypr - 228 total yds, 4.1 yds per touch
Laird - 132 yds rushing, 2.9 ypc - 95 yds receiving, 8.6 ypr - 227 total yds, 4.0 yds per touch

Walton - 0 TD's, 1 Fumble. 0 Special Teams tackles. 26 Pass Blocking snaps and gave up - 1 Sack, 1 Hit, 2 Hurries, 4 Pressures.
Laird - 0 TD's, 0 Fumble. 3 Special Teams tackles. 32 Pass Blocking snaps and gave up - 0 Sack, 0 Hit, 4 Hurries, 4 Pressures.

Walton is better at running the ball. And that is the most important thing.

Receiving, Special Teams, Pass Blocking, Not Fumbling, Character - all the things you say differentiate Walton actually favor Laird.

Am I completely wrong?
 
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bshaw28 said:
5) Here we are today. You're saying Walton was better by a mile than the other Dolphins RB's. You're still holding on to the notion that Walton's receiving, blocking, special teams, etc. differentiate him from other RB's.

Let's compare Walton's 4 starts vs. Laird's 4 starts:

Walton - 162 yds rushing, 3.8 ypc - 66 yds receiving, 5.5 ypr - 228 total yds, 4.1 yds per touch
Laird - 132 yds rushing, 2.9 ypc - 95 yds receiving, 8.6 ypr - 227 total yds, 4.0 yds per touch

Walton - 0 TD's, 1 Fumble. 0 Special Teams tackles. 26 Pass Blocking snaps and gave up - 1 Sack, 1 Hit, 2 Hurries, 4 Pressures.
Laird - 0 TD's, 0 Fumble. 3 Special Teams tackles. 32 Pass Blocking snaps and gave up - 0 Sack, 0 Hit, 4 Hurries, 4 Pressures.

Walton is better at running the ball. And that is the most important thing.

Receiving, Special Teams, Pass Blocking, Not Fumbling, Character - all the things you say differentiate Walton actually favor Laird.

Am I completely wrong?
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Yea your wrong....since the actual coaches of Walton and Laird have Walton above Laird on the depth chart. Thanks for your participation. I'm a Dolphins fan and watch EVERY GAME win or lose. If your not...please don't speak on my dolphins.
 
jruiz said:
Dont know if it’s the coaching or poor qb play but our receivers seem to be overrated by us fans every year
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I'm definitely not overrating them...go read my rants on the recruiting board...

Poor offensive playcalling and poor quarterback play make our receivers look a lot worse over the years, but this is really more of a very recent trend. We've done fine enough at WR and the unit would look better with a better QB and playcalling. Also, they could stand to work on their hands (I've been pounding the table for the team to buy THE SEEKER, which would definitely help with that).

I've gone on record thinking Mike Harley is going to have a monster year in this Lashlee offense, and I don't think our ****ty QB play is going to stop that. James Proche was a monster for SMU and I think Harley can do the same.

I just think we usually have some solid WRs even when they suck.
 
gogeta4 said:
Drake got traded as they weren't extended him and they seen similar value in Walton for nothing in cost.
Walton looked better than Ballage ….Dolphins own head coach seen that...Walton beat out Laird and Gaskin from training camp.

You left Walton for dead...if i can remember you were saying Gaskin and Laird were better and he wouldn't make the dolphins team...let alone start.

Had he not have off the field sh*ts..Walton is the Dolphins #2 rb in 2020
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Drake got traded because the Dolphins are idiots

2017 Dolphins RB's
Jay Ajai - Traded for a 4th round pick which became Kalen Ballage. Ajai starts for the SB Champion Eagles
Kenyan Drake - Traded for a 5th round pick. Drake had 814 yds & 8 TD's in 8 games post-trade. Ballage & Walton have 810 yds & 4 TD's in their career.
Damien Williams - Let him go in free agency. Goes on to start for the Chiefs.

The Dolphins flipped Ajayi/Drake/Williams into Ballage/Walton/Laird/Gaskin and a 5th round pick. So they're idiots.

If the Dolphins thought Walton was similar value to Drake, or if they went into 2020 with Walton as the #2 (even though I don't think this would've actually happened), it would make sense - because again, the Dolphins are complete idiots. I mean....they went into 2019 with Ballage as their starter, so Walton as the #2 doesn't look so bad compared to that.

I don't think I ever predicted Walton would be cut for Laird/Gaskin - but I did think it was a strong possibility. Walton was slightly outplayed by those 2 in the pre-season, then slightly outplayed them in the regular season - but all 3 were basically interchangeable.

I did say before the draft I thought Walton was better than Ballage, and was pretty confident of that. I doubled down on that when Walton signed with the Dolphins when I said - "The Kalen Ballage as a starting RB experiment isn't going to end well - so there's opportunity here. Dolphins don't have much RB depth."
 
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hoover437 said:
outside of Lamar didn’t all the others choose to not come play for those ****** coaches our administrations rolled out there!!!
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Don't think we ever offered Geno and I remember Brissett getting a late offer after he struck out but he choose UF. We did go hard after him when he decided to transfer but he choose NC State.
 
gogeta4 said:
i like debating with you....who we going to war over this years draft?. Make sure u tag me when its time
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Members of my "I just don't get what people are looking at" RB team:

2018 - Ballage & Walton
2019 - David Montgomery
2020 - Eno Benjamin
 
bshaw28 said:
Drake got traded because the Dolphins are idiots

2017 Dolphins RB's
Jay Ajai - Traded for a 4th round pick which became Kalen Ballage. Ajai starts for the SB Champion Eagles
Kenyan Drake - Traded for a 5th round pick. Drake had 814 yds & 8 TD's in 8 games post-trade. Ballage & Walton have 810 yds & 4 TD's in their career.
Damien Williams - Let him go in free agency. Goes on to start for the Chiefs.

The Dolphins flipped Ajayi/Drake/Williams into Ballage/Walton/Laird/Gaskin and a 5th round pick. So they're idiots.

If the Dolphins thought Walton was similar value to Drake, or if they went into 2020 with Walton as the #2 (even though I don't think this would've actually happened), it would make sense - because again, the Dolphins are complete idiots. I mean....they went into 2019 with Ballage as their starter, so Walton as the #2 doesn't look so bad compared to that.

I don't think I ever predicted Walton would be cut for Laird/Gaskin - but I did think it was a strong possibility. Walton was slightly outplayed by those 2 in the pre-season, then slightly outplayed them in the regular season - but all 3 were basically interchangeable.

I did say before the draft I thought Walton was better than Ballage, and was pretty confident of that. I doubled down on that when Walton signed with the Dolphins when I said - "The Kalen Ballage as a starting RB experiment isn't going to end well - so there's opportunity here. Dolphins don't have much RB depth."
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Shows how little the RB position is valued in the league. Ajayi is **** near out of the league. Williams looks slightly above average even in one of the best systems in the football. Drake the best of the 3 but he's not elite. Are you really going to cut a huge check to any of the 3? Not likey.
 
gogeta4 said:
Yea your wrong....since the actual coaches of Walton and Laird have Walton above Laird on the depth chart. Thanks for your participation. I'm a Dolphins fan and watch EVERY GAME win or lose. If your not...please don't speak on my dolphins.
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Those same coaches had:

Ballage above Drake & Walton at the start of the season.
Walton above Drake in the middle of the season.
Ballage above Laird & Gaskin after Drake & Walton were gone.

Is it safe to say the coaches might've made some mistakes?
 
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The valuation between Mark Walton and Kenyan Drake or Jay Ajayi is minute.

Like...have this conversation about kickers...they are valued more in the league.

The Dolphins are bozos, but getting anything for Drake and Ajayi was a good move. You can get enough production from countless backs.
 
BoxingRobes said:
The valuation between Mark Walton and Kenyan Drake or Jay Ajayi is minute.

Like...have this conversation about kickers...they are valued more in the league.

The Dolphins are bozos, but getting anything for Drake and Ajayi was a good move. You can get enough production from countless backs.
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I look at this differently - and I could definitely be wrong on this. You've always got good stats to support your opinion.

But I think the Top 10 RB's can still make a big difference.

But the 40th to the 80th best RB are basically interchangeable. These are guys you can easily find. The thing is they can fill in a couple games and not have any drop off from your starter, but couldn't do it for a full season.

I think swapping Ajayi for Ballage, or Drake for Walton are noticeable downgrades. And the Dolphins could've extended Drake for a bargain compared to what he's probably going to get now.
 
bshaw28 said:
I look at this differently - and I could definitely be wrong on this. You've always got good stats to support your opinion.

But I think the Top 10 RB's can still make a big difference.

But the 40th to the 80th best RB are basically interchangeable. These are guys you can easily find. The thing is they can fill in a couple games and not have any drop off from your starter, but couldn't do it for a full season.

I think swapping Ajayi for Ballage, or Drake for Walton are noticeable downgrades. And the Dolphins could've extended Drake for a bargain compared to what he's probably going to get now.
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I think its far less than 10.

Of the leagues Top 10 running backs by yards...only 4 are on playoff teams...and only one of those is the star of the show (Derrick Henry).

Of the leagues Top 10 running backs by yards...5 were first round picks...none of those teams made the playoffs.

Its just not an important, difference making position. Its a former glamorous, important position, but its not any more.

I'd never draft one high and I'd never pay one. Its absolutely unnecessary for success.

You're trying to splice minute differences in talent between Ajayi, Drake, Ballage, and Mark Walton. Regardless of what you think of them individually as players, the result is the same, so who cares? Its truly like trying to discuss who is the best long snapper.
 
BoxingRobes said:
I think its far less than 10.

Of the leagues Top 10 running backs by yards...only 4 are on playoff teams...and only one of those is the star of the show (Derrick Henry).

Of the leagues Top 10 running backs by yards...5 were first round picks...none of those teams made the playoffs.

Its just not an important, difference making position. Its a former glamorous, important position, but its not any more.

I'd never draft one high and I'd never pay one. Its absolutely unnecessary for success.

You're trying to splice minute differences in talent between Ajayi, Drake, Ballage, and Mark Walton. Regardless of what you think of them individually as players, the result is the same, so who cares? Its truly like trying to discuss who is the best long snapper.
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IMO it's about getting playmakers - whether it's at RB or WR. The position matters less than if the guy can makes plays or not.

You can breakdown WR's the same way you did RB's and it looks the same:

Of the leagues Top 10 WR's by yards...only 2 are on playoff teams (2 WR vs. 4 RB)
Of the leagues Top 10 WR's by yards...5 were first round picks...1 of those teams made the playoffs (1 WR vs 0 RB)


I think NFL follows trends too much and the always changing emphasis on positions and types of guys that are important causes teams to reach and overdraft. That's why there's been so many WR busts the 1st Round the last 5 years, while there's been almost no RB busts. Teams are reaching. QB is the only position you should reach for. The rest of the time - just get good players.

Regardless if it's a RB or WR - your odds of getting a really good one is much higher if you take 1 in the first 3 rounds.

As for saying Drake, Ballage, Walton have only minute differences in talent - I'd have to disagree. Compare their first 2 years in the NFL:

Walton - 67 - 235 yds - 3.5 ypc - 0 TD's
Ballage - 110 - 326 yds - 3.0 ypc - 4 TD's
Combined - 177 - 561 yds - 3.2 ypc - 4 TD's
Drake - 166 - 823 yds - 5.0 ypc - 5 TD's

Drake had 262 more yards and 1 more TD....on 10 less carries. That's a fairly sizable difference IMO.
 
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bshaw28 said:
IMO it's about getting playmakers - whether it's at RB or WR. The position matters less than if the guy can makes plays or not.

You can breakdown WR's the same way you did RB's and it looks the same:

Of the leagues Top 10 WR's by yards...only 2 are on playoff teams (2 WR vs. 4 RB)
Of the leagues Top 10 WR's by yards...5 were first round picks...1 of those teams made the playoffs (1 WR vs 0 RB)


I think NFL follows trends too much and the always changing emphasis on positions and types of guys that are important causes teams to reach and overdraft. That's why there's been so many WR busts the 1st Round the last 5 years, while there's been almost no RB busts. Teams are reaching. QB is the only position you should reach for. The rest of the time - just get good players.

Regardless if it's a RB or WR - your odds of getting a really good one is much higher if you take 1 in the first 3 rounds.

As for saying Drake, Ballage, Walton have only minute differences in talent - I'd have to disagree. Compare their first 2 years in the NFL:

Walton - 67 - 235 yds - 3.5 ypc - 0 TD's
Ballage - 110 - 326 yds - 3.0 ypc - 4 TD's
Combined - 177 - 561 yds - 3.2 ypc - 4 TD's
Drake - 166 - 823 yds - 5.0 ypc - 5 TD's

Drake had 262 more yards and 1 more TD....on 10 less carries. That's a fairly sizable difference IMO.
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Wide receivers are valued just a hair ahead of running backs throughout the league. Skill guys or "playmakers" are not really worth all that much. A handful of wide receivers are impact guys regardless of their QB...the rest are completely QB dependent.

Basically, getting these players or using significant capital or resources on them is foolhardy. You don't win by taking Calvin Johnson, AJ Green, Andre Johnson or Julio Jones. They are awesome to have. Hall of Fame wide receivers. Greatest all of All Times. But...it never meant anything for those teams that drafted them. Even Larry Fitzgerald, who I believe is the best of the modern era, needed a Hall of Fame QB to get to the dance and make great plays in important games.

The "playmakers" are overrated and are valued right where they should be. Behind QB, every OL position, every defensive position. Wide receivers, unlike RB, are valued ahead of kickers, punters, and tight ends...so there is that.
 
BoxingRobes said:
Wide receivers are valued just a hair ahead of running backs throughout the league. Skill guys or "playmakers" are not really worth all that much. A handful of wide receivers are impact guys regardless of their QB...the rest are completely QB dependent.

Basically, getting these players or using significant capital or resources on them is foolhardy. You don't win by taking Calvin Johnson, AJ Green, Andre Johnson or Julio Jones. They are awesome to have. Hall of Fame wide receivers. Greatest all of All Times. But...it never meant anything for those teams that drafted them. Even Larry Fitzgerald, who I believe is the best of the modern era, needed a Hall of Fame QB to get to the dance and make great plays in important games.

The "playmakers" are overrated and are valued right where they should be. Behind QB, every OL position, every defensive position. Wide receivers, unlike RB, are valued ahead of kickers, punters, and tight ends...so there is that.
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How are you defining or measuring value? I'm not getting how you're saying Kickers & Punters are more valuable than RB's.

I mean....couldn't you say the same thing for OL that make the Pro-Bowl every year - like Joe Thomas, Jason Peters, or Trent Williams? Or LB's like Luke Keuchly or Khalil Mack?

Who are the group of OL or TE's or LB's or TE's or Kickers/Punters that are making a difference more so than the group of RB/WR's that make a difference?

QB's are by far the most important. It's almost impossible to win it all if you don't have one of the 6-7 best QB's in the league. But for the 25 teams that don't have one of those QB's - all positions matter. And a majority of the time - those 2nd tier QB's need playmakers to get wins. Kirk Cousins needs Cook/Diggs/Thielen. Tannehill needs Henry & Brown. 2nd tier QB's can still win without true playmakers - 49ers this year are an example - but it makes it much easier if they do. RB/WR's are not just interchangeable.
 
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