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Some NC State thoughts after rewatch

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JD4 said:
Pringle has been better than Lyle and Lyle has been mostly underwhelming.

It’s not fair to completely dog Lyle when he was forced to run a scheme that doesn’t fit his style (and allows defenders to sell out to stop the inside run).

I bet he’d look more comfortable against Nc state defense with some outside runs sprinkled in
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Lyle quite literally never makes anyone miss nor breaks tackles. He’s had opportunities. Fletcher at least breaks tackles. Pringle makes guys miss.

Lyle has had 37 carries+receptions. He’s produced 130 yards for 3.51 yds per touch total. He has a PFF run grade of 64. He has been credited with 6 miss tackles forced (17.6% of runs), 2 10+ yard runs (5.9%), 85 yds after contact (2.50 per carry), 6 TD+1st downs (17.6%), and he has an Elusive rating of 40.5…. Every single metric is a major dropoff from last season

Pringle has had the exact same number of carries but 36 total carries+receptions. He’s produced 263 yards for 7.1 yds per touch total. He has a PFF run grade of 80.6. He has been credited with 10 miss tackles forced (29.4%), 8 10+ yard runs (23.5%), 132 yds after contact (3.22 per carry), 14 TDs+1st downs (41.2%), and he has an elusive rating of 118.6

Obviously Pringle has done this against worse competition. But they both played against Syracuse. 6 carries vs 7. One of them averaged 7.9 ypc the other 2.8 ypc..
 
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Calinative said:
Lyle quite literally never makes anyone miss nor breaks tackles. He’s had opportunities. Fletcher at least breaks tackles. Pringle makes guys miss.

Lyle has had 37 carries+receptions. He’s produced 130 yards for 3.51 yds per touch total. He has a PFF run grade of 64. He has been credited with 6 miss tackles forced (17.6% of runs), 2 10+ yard runs (5.9%), 85 yds after contact (2.50 per carry), 6 TD+1st downs (17.6%), and he has an Elusive rating of 40.5…. Every single metric is a major dropoff from last season

Pringle has had the exact same number of carries but 37 total carries+receptions. He’s produced 263 yards for 7.1 yds per touch total. He has a PFF run grade of 80.6. He has been credited with 10 miss tackles forced (29.4%), 8 10+ yard runs (23.5%), 132 yds after contact (3.22 per carry), 14 TDs+1st downs (41.2%), and he has an elusive rating of 118.6

Obviously Pringle has done this against worse competition. But they both played against Syracuse. 6 carries vs 7. One of them averaged 7.9 ypc the other 2.8 ypc..
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Excellent breakdown
 
Calinative said:
Lyle quite literally never makes anyone miss nor breaks tackles. He’s had opportunities. Fletcher at least breaks tackles. Pringle makes guys miss.

Lyle has had 37 carries+receptions. He’s produced 130 yards for 3.51 yds per touch total. He has a PFF run grade of 64. He has been credited with 6 miss tackles forced (17.6% of runs), 2 10+ yard runs (5.9%), 85 yds after contact (2.50 per carry), 6 TD+1st downs (17.6%), and he has an Elusive rating of 40.5…. Every single metric is a major dropoff from last season

Pringle has had the exact same number of carries but 36 total carries+receptions. He’s produced 263 yards for 7.1 yds per touch total. He has a PFF run grade of 80.6. He has been credited with 10 miss tackles forced (29.4%), 8 10+ yard runs (23.5%), 132 yds after contact (3.22 per carry), 14 TDs+1st downs (41.2%), and he has an elusive rating of 118.6

Obviously Pringle has done this against worse competition. But they both played against Syracuse. 6 carries vs 7. One of them averaged 7.9 ypc the other 2.8 ypc..
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Lyle also did his “good” numbers against terrible competition. I cannot accurately express how bad he was last year against Syracuse unless you go back and watch.
 
flips said:
Think it had much more to do with the other 2 healthy RB options averaging less than 4 ypc, than a lightbulb going on. Desperation is the mother of invention.
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You missed a colorful offseason discussion centered around the importance of pass blocking. More likely scenario imo is Lyle, Fletcher and maybe Brown have a higher NIL number and they were allotted more opportunities as a result. This isn't exactly the murderers row portion of the schedule so I'll hold off some of my excitement.
 
I re-watched the game last night and there were a few plays offensively when all three WR's on the field were true freshman (Toney, Moore and Upshaw). I can't ever recall that in a game at UM

And when it was Pringle at RB, that means 4 true freshman playing meaningful snaps at the same time.

That's unprecedented.
 
flips said:
We have run out of 11 a lot this year. The running out of 10 we started at the beginning of the Stanford game. I mentioned it in another thread but I'd be curious to see the data of what sets we have run out of game by game and how often we have pulled OL on called runs. My guess is that the NC St game isn't a massive outlier in frequency, just in effectiveness (credit to Pringle)
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We actually haven’t run out of 10 personnel all that much because the TE is generally always in, even if spread out. I know why Mario wants a TE in there, but in 4 wide, we need wrs since we don’t have an Arroyo.

I’d love to see data on the condensed sets, number of rushes and ypc and then the same for 3 wide and 4 wide formations (as opposed to personnel). My guess is that data isn’t readily available, but I think we would clearly see a difference.
 
k9cane said:
I re-watched the game last night and there were a few plays offensively when all three WR's on the field were true freshman (Toney, Moore and Upshaw). I can't ever recall that in a game at UM

And when it was Pringle at RB, that means 4 true freshman playing meaningful snaps at the same time.

That's unprecedented.
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And it was generally more productive.
 
k9cane said:
I re-watched the game last night and there were a few plays offensively when all three WR's on the field were true freshman (Toney, Moore and Upshaw). I can't ever recall that in a game at UM

And when it was Pringle at RB, that means 4 true freshman playing meaningful snaps at the same time.

That's unprecedented.
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Yeah saw that as well. In the portal era too lol
 
cway313 said:
You missed a colorful offseason discussion centered around the importance of pass blocking. More likely scenario imo is Lyle, Fletcher and maybe Brown have a higher NIL number and they were allotted more opportunities as a result. This isn't exactly the murderers row portion of the schedule so I'll hold off some of my excitement.
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Lucky me, lol. I try to disappear after the portal has closed. Good point re:NIL & the schedule. Hopefully we can have nice things and Pringle is legit against good defenses. I'm optimistic
 
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JHallCanes said:
Pringle was also injured

Just glad to see forcing Jordan Lyle in the game is over. Took about 2 carries to see Pringle is better

Very happy with the offense this week but I’m skeptical if we will do it against Pitt. We like to bully and front run against teams that can’t threaten us. Fingers crossed.

Also add Jaden Baugh to the list of talented backs we’ve made look absolutely pedestrian
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My take - things are at play/contributing other than on-field performance

Mario is a master recruiter. Recruiting is about sales & relationships

Fletcher (Heritage) & Lyle (STA) are highly rated recruits from local superpower schools we recruit from every year.

There is a vested interest to see them do well - so they will get first crack/benefit of the doubt.

Guys like Chamar Brown, Ajay Allen, Girard Pringle (schools we rarely if ever recruit) etc. have to be very clearly better to jump up the depth chart.

That's why after 7 straight bad games from Lyle - he still started vs Syracuse. The situation had to become hit you over the head obvious to move to Pringle.
 
JHallCanes said:
Pringle was also injured

Just glad to see forcing Jordan Lyle in the game is over. Took about 2 carries to see Pringle is better

Very happy with the offense this week but I’m skeptical if we will do it against Pitt. We like to bully and front run against teams that can’t threaten us. Fingers crossed.

Also add Jaden Baugh to the list of talented backs we’ve made look absolutely pedestrian
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Will be interesting to see if Pringle allows us add another RB this offseason.
 
bshaw28 said:
My take - things are at play/contributing other than on-field performance

Mario is a master recruiter. Recruiting is about sales & relationships

Fletcher (Heritage) & Lyle (STA) are highly rated recruits from local superpower schools we recruit from every year.

There is a vested interest to see them do well - so they will get first crack/benefit of the doubt.

Guys like Chamar Brown, Ajay Allen, Girard Pringle (schools we rarely if ever recruit) etc. have to be very clearly better to jump up the depth chart.

That's why after 7 straight bad games from Lyle - he still started vs Syracuse. The situation had to become hit you over the head obvious to move to Pringle.
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i honestly think they were tryna shirt Pringle.

he was a huge recruit from us from armwood a place we couldnt land a kid from my whole life.

So yea i sort of agree with you on it with benefit of the doubt.

i think its a mi of nil as well though because lofton can literally do anythin save drop his draws ont he field and he will be a focal point.

guys like lofton and lyle have ripped it up at greentree
 
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rascon said:
We actually haven’t run out of 10 personnel all that much because the TE is generally always in, even if spread out. I know why Mario wants a TE in there, but in 4 wide, we need wrs since we don’t have an Arroyo.

I’d love to see data on the condensed sets, number of rushes and ypc and then the same for 3 wide and 4 wide formations (as opposed to personnel). My guess is that data isn’t readily available, but I think we would clearly see a difference.
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I haven't had time to rewatch a game since Stanford, but we ran our first 4-6 plays without a TE against them, and mixed in 4 WR after that too. Will try to catch up and chart formations/OL pulling when I am free around Thanksgiving if someone doesn't do it first. I might be way off here, but my hypothesis is NC St was more "we had a higher success rate" on our spread out runs and runs when we pulled OL cause of Pringle and our OL getting better at it (and because we pulled CiCi more than we had been) than we ran out spread a mucher greater % of our runs and/or pulled OL much more often.

Also, I think Beck regaining his confidence and playing well the last couple of weeks (against terrible defenses tbf) has helped out the run game too. We have run the ball a lot better since he started hitting explosive pass plays again - last drive of first half against Cuse on. He had a rough stretch UF-first half against Cuse (FSU excepted) when he basically was averaging ~6.8 ypa. 10.5 ypa over the last two.
 
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